253 réponses à ce sujet

[Rip504]

Peregrin25 wrote...


Me being military vet has nothing to do with the game. I just mention dthat because what OP said was true on how morale works. As far as Mass Effect 3 you have billions to help you fight and alot of hardcore fire power. Even in the cut scenes we saw some of the reaper ships being destroyed. Yeah not all, but still. Doesn't mean then they could start using tactics to actually fight the way a conventional war would be fought.

Another exapmple. Star Trek and their fight against the borg. They beat em. One would think beating borg that can assimilate you with just a touch how could you beat such a force and then have to turn your weapons on your former friends and compatriots. They did though. I knowing military history for the course of the last 5000 years. I have read and studies some of the most overwhelming odds being destroyed by so few. It's happened time and time again. Most notorious was the Greek and Persian war. 300 Spartans and about 6000 other greek soldiers from arround the country fended off wave after wave of persian assault for 7 days before being criumbled, but allowed Greece still out numbered by the sheer number of the enemy to push them back and send Xerxes running home and soon dying from a bacterial infection. The Persain Empire spanned the entire continent of Asia and Greece such a small spec of land compared to it's vastness triumphed a great evil.

When you have morale and inspire your men. Anything is possible. It's part of what makes the human spirit the human spirit. It is why we survive. It is instinct. We always find a way. Hypthetically speaking somthing like reapers does happen. Yes, it will be devestating, in the end I think we may come out on top. And if allied alien races help that just makes it much less of a chance of being defeated.

I make these coments based on realism and how things may turn out in a hypthetical situation.

Edit: And your comment is the kind of attitiude that gets men killed in combat. and then fail to achieve victory in said confrontation.

Liara says. That's who. Liara=Bioware Reapers=Bioware's story.
Yes there may be a 10% chance(If lucky as hell) of conventionally beating the Reapers. As we have an example and fact that Citadel Space is losing. Batarians gone,Asari,Turians,and Humans all getting beat hard. Not to mention the other races suffering significant losses. At the end of ME3 we are losing miserably. The entire galaxy map is being dominated and controlled by the Reapers.

Out of every example I have seen posted on this thread,I have yet to see one that shows one side getting beat horribly and then turning around and beating the Greater force. Reapers will not freeze and starve to death. We have seen a potential 1% of Reaper tactics. After we have won the war,Earth and most other worlds are nearly if not devastated and are in need of rebuilding. Also our resources,forces,etc are in need of rebuilding and replenishing etc. This is only after what seems to be a few short months in ME3.

So with conventional tactics we will start to win as the war goes on? Yes there is a small chance. Reapers can learn and adapt as well as we can. Their morale is that they are undefeatable. Will we ever break the Reapers will? How about their confidence? When we find a weakness,will they let us exploit it forever? Or will they fix it? A few thousand Reaper ships? How about the Billions of Husk and countless ground fodder?

The idea is that the Reapers are not a conventional enemy,therfor can not be beat conventionally. <-Bioware's opinion.


Edit:

tetsutsuru wrote...


Know a real-life soldier who's been in an actual combat   But you know, you might not even need to, there are lots of realistic movies which portray such:  300, We Were Soldiers, Saving Private Ryan, Act of Valor.  Even realistic, science fiction, Battle: Los Angeles.

Outnumbered? 
Outgunned?  So, you gonna just bend over and let the Reapers have their
way with you, and you just take it then?  Hell, no!  I'm gonna die, but I'm gonna make my ONE, seemingly insignificant life cost them dearly to take.

Not
saying that High EMS = High Morale = instant guaranteed victory against
the Reapers.  Morale is a wildcard which can definitely turn 'victory'
from a mere dream or wishful thinking, into a fighting chance of
possibility.

With Reaper forces? No I do not.
Movies=Proof. None of which represent the Reapers force,power,enslaving techniques,indoctrination abilities etc.
Battle:LA Slightly in a small way supports your theory,although it is also completely fictional.

How? The Reapers only concern is victory,if they are wining or are going to  win,your sacrifice means nothing. Sorry.  1% possibility of winning is enough for you to throw away our super weapon? I disagree with the endings and would have loved to beat the Reapers conventionally,but it does seem a bit far fetched and unrealistic. IMO

Modifié par Rip504, 14 mai 2012 - 08:02 .

[Kr0gan]

111987 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

I have a better word: Tactics.

Instead of charging the Reapers into close combat because it looks cool why don't you use your superior fire range and concentrate fire on a Reaper at a time? (you hear me, Hackett?)

Their weapons have superior range and accuracy than our own.

I don't see the Reapers having superior range in all the space combat cut-scenes, always the organics shoot them first and the Reapers have to get near to shoot their weapons.

[111987]

Kr0gan wrote...

111987 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

I have a better word: Tactics.

Instead of charging the Reapers into close combat because it looks cool why don't you use your superior fire range and concentrate fire on a Reaper at a time? (you hear me, Hackett?)

Their weapons have superior range and accuracy than our own.

I don't see the Reapers having superior range in all the space combat cut-scenes, always the organics shoot them first and the Reapers have to get near to shoot their weapons.

"Precise targeting computers and correctors also give the Reaper weapons a longer effective range than organics' dreadnoughts or cruisers".

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reapers#Reaper_Capabilities

Modifié par 111987, 14 mai 2012 - 07:30 .

[DevilBeast]

frylock23 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

That's a nice sentiment, but it's ultimately worthless against an enemy that can plow through your best defenses with relative ease.

Did you ever see the end of Braveheart?

Those unarmored Scotsmen charged a line of armored, mounted English knights. I'd say that fits the definition of fighting an enemy that can "plow through your best defenses with relative ease." I guess they all got slaughtered then ...

Oh, wait.

They won, and not just in Hollywood, either. They really won.

There's more to war than just the hard facts of who has the best weapons. Sometimes, the inferior force does win. Much like sports, if it was simply a matter of checking who has the superior force on paper, we wouldn't even need to actually fight.

Ahem.. http://en.wikipedia...._Falkirk_(1298)

[dreman9999]

DevilBeast wrote...

frylock23 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

That's a nice sentiment, but it's ultimately worthless against an enemy that can plow through your best defenses with relative ease.

Did you ever see the end of Braveheart?

Those unarmored Scotsmen charged a line of armored, mounted English knights. I'd say that fits the definition of fighting an enemy that can "plow through your best defenses with relative ease." I guess they all got slaughtered then ...

Oh, wait.

They won, and not just in Hollywood, either. They really won.

There's more to war than just the hard facts of who has the best weapons. Sometimes, the inferior force does win. Much like sports, if it was simply a matter of checking who has the superior force on paper, we wouldn't even need to actually fight.

Ahem.. http://en.wikipedia....ttle_of_Falkirk

[incinerator950]

Peregrin25 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Peregrin25 wrote...

tetsutsuru wrote...

One word which makes a Conventional Victory possible:  Morale.

Shepard managing a high EMS rating means the biggest galactic "Sword" fleet and "Hammer" ground teams ever assembled.  Soldiers will have solid confidence and a high morale.  High morale means every single soldier can fight harder, better, faster, stronger.  This includes EDI, in spite of being synthetic.  Remember the last private conversation with her in the FOB?  She will follow Shepard, now determined and unwavering.  The same goes for the Geth, with full-AI sentience.

You can throw all the math you want at this with fleet ratings, score, strength, or whatever else have you.  But 'morale' is the one big thing which will throw all those equations up in the air.

Know a real-life soldier who's been in an actual combat theatre, let alone one who's been in direct combat?  Go ahead and ask him/her how much of a difference morale affects the situation.  But you know, you might not even need to, there are lots of realistic movies which portray such:  300, We Were Soldiers, Saving Private Ryan, Act of Valor.  Even realistic, science fiction, Battle: Los Angeles.

Outnumbered?  Outgunned?  So, you gonna just bend over and let the Reapers have their way with you, and you just take it then?  Hell, no!  I'm gonna die, but I'm gonna make my ONE, seemingly insignificant life cost them dearly to take.

Not saying that High EMS = High Morale = instant guaranteed victory against the Reapers.  Morale is a wildcard which can definitely turn 'victory' from a mere dream or wishful thinking, into a fighting chance of possibility.

Me being a U.S. Marine infantryman and a combat vet. I agree with ever word you said. Nice to see someone point that out. Morale is like a drug. Same goes for despair too. You either go into a fight uplifted and and ready to give it your all or you aren't and way I see it in ME3 you made the largest contribution to the galaxy, brokered imposssible treaties. Inspired the entire galaxy. Who's to say the fight couldn't be won conventionally. I almost would have prefered that having 8000 EMS rating and all going into Priority: Earth. lol.

Well said!.

As a us. 
Marine, how do you fight an enemy that never sleeps, needs no recourse,has endless troops, and destroy platoons in a singale shot?

Me being military vet has nothing to do with the game. I just mention dthat because what OP said was true on how morale works. As far as Mass Effect 3 you have billions to help you fight and alot of hardcore fire power. Even in the cut scenes we saw some of the reaper ships being destroyed. Yeah not all, but still. Doesn't mean then they could start using tactics to actually fight the way a conventional war would be fought.

Another exapmple. Star Trek and their fight against the borg. They beat em. One would think beating borg that can assimilate you with just a touch how could you beat such a force and then have to turn your weapons on your former friends and compatriots. They did though. I knowing military history for the course of the last 5000 years. I have read and studies some of the most overwhelming odds being destroyed by so few. It's happened time and time again. Most notorious was the Greek and Persian war. 300 Spartans and about 6000 other greek soldiers from arround the country fended off wave after wave of persian assault for 7 days before being criumbled, but allowed Greece still out numbered by the sheer number of the enemy to push them back and send Xerxes running home and soon dying from a bacterial infection. The Persain Empire spanned the entire continent of Asia and Greece such a small spec of land compared to it's vastness triumphed a great evil.

When you have morale and inspire your men. Anything is possible. It's part of what makes the human spirit the human spirit. It is why we survive. It is instinct. We always find a way. Hypthetically speaking somthing like reapers does happen. Yes, it will be devestating, in the end I think we may come out on top. And if allied alien races help that just makes it much less of a chance of being defeated.

I make these coments based on realism and how things may turn out in a hypthetical situation.

Edit: And your comment is the kind of attitiude that gets men killed in combat. and then fail to achieve victory in said confrontation.

As a former US Sailor, I have to agree and disagree with you.  A hypothetical situation with numbers doesn't take into account that history for warfare with us is Humans vs Humans.  There is a distinct lack of moral rationale when fighting an entire race of life-forms that are superior in several ways, and have proven to know how to kill you by the lot.  For instance, the Reapers are not going to get an Infection and run away.  They are not going to allow themselves to be bottlenecked into bad formations without winning eventually.  They will not retreat because their lord doesn't want to fight peasants, or a population back home doesn't think the War is worth fighting and wants their sons and daughters home.

It doesn't mean you shouldn't find a way to fight them, but trying to apply historic logic against an enemy that is written to have a longer history of attrocities in a hypothetical box saying "It's possible" without actual game evidence is lacking. 

The codex said it was possible, the game showed us it wasn't, and Bioware has implied they don't want to make it conventionally possible. 

Modifié par incinerator950, 14 mai 2012 - 07:40 .

[Kr0gan]

111987 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

111987 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

I have a better word: Tactics.

Instead of charging the Reapers into close combat because it looks cool why don't you use your superior fire range and concentrate fire on a Reaper at a time? (you hear me, Hackett?)

Their weapons have superior range and accuracy than our own.

I don't see the Reapers having superior range in all the space combat cut-scenes, always the organics shoot them first and the Reapers have to get near to shoot their weapons.

"Precise targeting computers and correctors also give the Reaper weapons a longer effective range than organics' dreadnoughts or cruisers".

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reapers#Reaper_Capabilities

Oh great, another thing in the Codex that is ignored in the game.

I guess, I'll have to imagine that I didn't see the Reapers getting hammered beyond visual range or just choose what I want to fit in my headcannon: the Codex or the cut-scenes.

*sigh

[Lyrebon]

Except the Reapers that were taken down required a considerable force to do so and that was only one at a time. Consider the fact that their are hundreds of thousands of Reapers, perhaps millions or even billions. Sapient creatures don't stand a chance against advanced technological beings.

[saracen16]

tetsutsuru wrote...

One word which makes a Conventional Victory possible:  Morale.

Shepard managing a high EMS rating means the biggest galactic "Sword" fleet and "Hammer" ground teams ever assembled.  Soldiers will have solid confidence and a high morale.  High morale means every single soldier can fight harder, better, faster, stronger.  This includes EDI, in spite of being synthetic.  Remember the last private conversation with her in the FOB?  She will follow Shepard, now determined and unwavering.  The same goes for the Geth, with full-AI sentience.

You can throw all the math you want at this with fleet ratings, score, strength, or whatever else have you.  But 'morale' is the one big thing which will throw all those equations up in the air.

Know a real-life soldier who's been in an actual combat theatre, let alone one who's been in direct combat?  Go ahead and ask him/her how much of a difference morale affects the situation.  But you know, you might not even need to, there are lots of realistic movies which portray such:  300, We Were Soldiers, Saving Private Ryan, Act of Valor.  Even realistic, science fiction, Battle: Los Angeles.

Outnumbered?  Outgunned?  So, you gonna just bend over and let the Reapers have their way with you, and you just take it then?  Hell, no!  I'm gonna die, but I'm gonna make my ONE, seemingly insignificant life cost them dearly to take.

Not saying that High EMS = High Morale = instant guaranteed victory against the Reapers.  Morale is a wildcard which can definitely turn 'victory' from a mere dream or wishful thinking, into a fighting chance of possibility.

And I've got one number for you: 300.

[dreman9999]

Kr0gan wrote...

111987 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

111987 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

I have a better word: Tactics.

Instead of charging the Reapers into close combat because it looks cool why don't you use your superior fire range and concentrate fire on a Reaper at a time? (you hear me, Hackett?)

Their weapons have superior range and accuracy than our own.

I don't see the Reapers having superior range in all the space combat cut-scenes, always the organics shoot them first and the Reapers have to get near to shoot their weapons.

"Precise targeting computers and correctors also give the Reaper weapons a longer effective range than organics' dreadnoughts or cruisers".

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reapers#Reaper_Capabilities

Oh great, another thing in the Codex that is ignored in the game.

I guess, I'll have to imagine that I didn't see the Reapers getting hammered beyond visual range or just choose what I want to fit in my headcannon: the Codex or the cut-scenes.

*sigh

You don't understand that was a destroyor? And it nearly hit the normady during the fight? Talk to traynor after killing the reaper.

[Kr0gan]

dreman9999 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

111987 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

111987 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

I have a better word: Tactics.

Instead of charging the Reapers into close combat because it looks cool why don't you use your superior fire range and concentrate fire on a Reaper at a time? (you hear me, Hackett?)

Their weapons have superior range and accuracy than our own.

I don't see the Reapers having superior range in all the space combat cut-scenes, always the organics shoot them first and the Reapers have to get near to shoot their weapons.

"Precise targeting computers and correctors also give the Reaper weapons a longer effective range than organics' dreadnoughts or cruisers".

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reapers#Reaper_Capabilities

Oh great, another thing in the Codex that is ignored in the game.

I guess, I'll have to imagine that I didn't see the Reapers getting hammered beyond visual range or just choose what I want to fit in my headcannon: the Codex or the cut-scenes.

*sigh

You don't understand that was a destroyor? And it nearly hit the normady during the fight? Talk to traynor after killing the reaper.

You don't understand I'm talking about the Sword Fleet vs the Reaper Fleet? (and the small cut-scene with the Turian Fleet vs Reapers over Palaven).

Just watch the animation. They are getting hitted precisely over a great distance (but for some reason, the Fleet doesn't use this advantage to take them down one by one) and the Reapers have to get near... now, what do you want to believe? what you see in the game or the Codex? (I believe neither right now but that's my problem).

Modifié par Kr0gan, 14 mai 2012 - 07:49 .

[dreman9999]

Kr0gan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

111987 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

111987 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

I have a better word: Tactics.

Instead of charging the Reapers into close combat because it looks cool why don't you use your superior fire range and concentrate fire on a Reaper at a time? (you hear me, Hackett?)

Their weapons have superior range and accuracy than our own.

I don't see the Reapers having superior range in all the space combat cut-scenes, always the organics shoot them first and the Reapers have to get near to shoot their weapons.

"Precise targeting computers and correctors also give the Reaper weapons a longer effective range than organics' dreadnoughts or cruisers".

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reapers#Reaper_Capabilities

Oh great, another thing in the Codex that is ignored in the game.

I guess, I'll have to imagine that I didn't see the Reapers getting hammered beyond visual range or just choose what I want to fit in my headcannon: the Codex or the cut-scenes.

*sigh

You don't understand that was a destroyor? And it nearly hit the normady during the fight? Talk to traynor after killing the reaper.

You don't understand I'm talking about the Sword Fleet vs the Reaper Fleet? (and the small cut-scene with the Turian Fleet vs Reapers over Palaven).

Just watch the animation. They are getting hitted precisely over a great distance and the Reapers have to get near... now, what do you want to belive? what you see in the game or the Codex? (I believe neither right now but that's my problem).

I only see the non- reaper fleets getting destroyed.

[incinerator950]

What does it matter what you believe, what you saw by the end were Reaper's disengaging from the fight to battle Hammer forces. Not only that, Reapers were still in Orbit, winning.

Even with high EMS, they will win that fight eventually.

[Dasher1010]

If worst comes to worst, seed thresher maws on every single world.

[savionen]

incinerator950 wrote...

What does it matter what you believe, what you saw by the end were Reaper's disengaging from the fight to battle Hammer forces. Not only that, Reapers were still in Orbit, winning.

Even with high EMS, they will win that fight eventually.

I think that's part of the problem, though.

The end is the same regardless. You can get Synthesis with 3k EMS, or at the least, Earth doesn't get destroyed. You can potentially get 9-10k EMS, more than 3x as many troops. I'm not sure why they even bothered with EMS.

[Kr0gan]

dreman9999 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

111987 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

111987 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

I have a better word: Tactics.

Instead of charging the Reapers into close combat because it looks cool why don't you use your superior fire range and concentrate fire on a Reaper at a time? (you hear me, Hackett?)

Their weapons have superior range and accuracy than our own.

I don't see the Reapers having superior range in all the space combat cut-scenes, always the organics shoot them first and the Reapers have to get near to shoot their weapons.

"Precise targeting computers and correctors also give the Reaper weapons a longer effective range than organics' dreadnoughts or cruisers".

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reapers#Reaper_Capabilities

Oh great, another thing in the Codex that is ignored in the game.

I guess, I'll have to imagine that I didn't see the Reapers getting hammered beyond visual range or just choose what I want to fit in my headcannon: the Codex or the cut-scenes.

*sigh

You don't understand that was a destroyor? And it nearly hit the normady during the fight? Talk to traynor after killing the reaper.

You don't understand I'm talking about the Sword Fleet vs the Reaper Fleet? (and the small cut-scene with the Turian Fleet vs Reapers over Palaven).

Just watch the animation. They are getting hitted precisely over a great distance and the Reapers have to get near... now, what do you want to belive? what you see in the game or the Codex? (I believe neither right now but that's my problem).

I only see the non- reaper fleets getting destroyed.

Sure but if you have enough EMS you can see a Reaper (Sovereign class) getting almost destroyed by a bunch of Dreadnaughts, now imagine if the Sword fleet keep it's distance and start concentrating the fire of the entire fleet (or at least a big part of them) into a single Reaper at a time... man, some dude playing EVE Online have more tactic sense than the Cmdr. of that fleet.
I'm just trying to use common sense, I know that the Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally but it's because the writers decided that so they could force their awful ending down our throats, not because it was really impossible from a logic point of view. If they couldn't be defeated conventionally they wouldn't have made all the effort of setting the trap of the Citadel and the Relay system... but apparently the writers forgot the ME1 plot so they just make all the Reapers "op".

[111987]

Kr0gan wrote...


Sure but if you have enough EMS you can see a Reaper (Sovereign class) getting almost destroyed by a bunch of Dreadnaughts, now imagine if the Sword fleet keep it's distance and start concentrating the fire of the entire fleet (or at least a big part of them) into a single Reaper at a time... man, some dude playing EVE Online have more tactic sense than the Cmdr. of that fleet.
I'm just trying to use common sense, I know that the Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally but it's because the writers decided that so they could force their awful ending down our throats, not because it was really impossible from a logic point of view. If they couldn't be defeated conventionally they wouldn't have made all the effort of setting the trap of the Citadel and the Relay system... but apparently the writers forgot the ME1 plot so they just make all the Reapers "op".

Um no, the Relay and Citadel trap makes their job far easier, so of course they would still do it.

If we want to look at it logically, the Reapers could easily blast us all the hell from thousands of kilometers away. Orbital bombardment would destroy planets within minutes. Their FTL drives could allow them to do short hops into the middle of our fleets, unleash hell, and then hop out again.

[DevilBeast]

Dasher1010 wrote...

If worst comes to worst, seed thresher maws on every single world.

and in order to get rid of the thresher maws: MAKO TIME!!

[Tapkomet]

A question. How do the Reapers' weapons outrange organics' weapons that have no maximum range? It's space, everything goes until it hits something.

For battle-tactics, I would have my fleet flying backwards while shooting. How would that work?

[eddieoctane]

dreman9999 wrote...

*snip*

1. What you destroy with a cain was an AA tower...Not a reaper.
2. You have to take down the barrier first to damage them with a cain.
3. The fight would be taken out by Oculusway beforereaching the reaper.

1. Hades cannons are Reapers. Sorry, but you're wrong on that one.

2. I never had to take down the things' barriers to kill either of the destroyers on Earth. One had 2 missiles detonate well inside any barrier it may have had and was then blasted by tank fire which never hit a barrier. The other was the one you one-shot with a Cain.

3. I never said there wouldn't be casualties form sending fighters at the Reapers. But no defense is perfect, and a few well placed shots can do tremendous damage. Many kamikaze fighters were shot down before they could hit US ship. Those that did were devistatingly effective.

And my original point was that you can't claim the Reapers are that strong when BioWare plays fast and loose with the Reapers actual abilities. If they are nearly invincible, leave them nearly invincible. It was bad writing to one Reaper on Earth so easily slain when other require huge ammounts of fire.

Modifié par eddieoctane, 14 mai 2012 - 08:10 .

[Kr0gan]

111987 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...


Sure but if you have enough EMS you can see a Reaper (Sovereign class) getting almost destroyed by a bunch of Dreadnaughts, now imagine if the Sword fleet keep it's distance and start concentrating the fire of the entire fleet (or at least a big part of them) into a single Reaper at a time... man, some dude playing EVE Online have more tactic sense than the Cmdr. of that fleet.
I'm just trying to use common sense, I know that the Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally but it's because the writers decided that so they could force their awful ending down our throats, not because it was really impossible from a logic point of view. If they couldn't be defeated conventionally they wouldn't have made all the effort of setting the trap of the Citadel and the Relay system... but apparently the writers forgot the ME1 plot so they just make all the Reapers "op".

Um no, the Relay and Citadel trap makes their job far easier, so of course they would still do it.

If we want to look at it logically, the Reapers could easily blast us all the hell from thousands of kilometers away. Orbital bombardment would destroy planets within minutes. Their FTL drives could allow them to do short hops into the middle of our fleets, unleash hell, and then hop out again.

Of course, I want to see it logically, what other way do you want to see it?

The FTL hops part, I don't know where did you get it... is part of the Codex or speculation?

Anyway, my point was to show that they are not undefeatable but the game forces you to that conclusion... wich sucks, just my opinion.

[Catamantaloedis]

Reapers have destroyed a thousand civilizations, many which were apparently more advanced than ours, if the Protheans serve as an indication, but we can win this time because we believe.

[UrgentArchengel]

Shepard goes through hell for nearly 2 years, dead for 2, practically killed armies single handed, including getting shot repeatedly, then he sees Earth and tons of his kind die because everyone though he was some crackpot theorist; Shepard even had to blow up a system, full of life. Shepard has been through emotional hell through out all of ME3 and then at the very end, Harby blasts Shepard with his beam of doom. Now at that point Shepard is practically near dead, and mostly unconscious. Shep moves on pure willpower alone. Strong Willpower=High Morale. Morale could be the key.

[111987]

Kr0gan wrote...

111987 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...


Sure but if you have enough EMS you can see a Reaper (Sovereign class) getting almost destroyed by a bunch of Dreadnaughts, now imagine if the Sword fleet keep it's distance and start concentrating the fire of the entire fleet (or at least a big part of them) into a single Reaper at a time... man, some dude playing EVE Online have more tactic sense than the Cmdr. of that fleet.
I'm just trying to use common sense, I know that the Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally but it's because the writers decided that so they could force their awful ending down our throats, not because it was really impossible from a logic point of view. If they couldn't be defeated conventionally they wouldn't have made all the effort of setting the trap of the Citadel and the Relay system... but apparently the writers forgot the ME1 plot so they just make all the Reapers "op".

Um no, the Relay and Citadel trap makes their job far easier, so of course they would still do it.

If we want to look at it logically, the Reapers could easily blast us all the hell from thousands of kilometers away. Orbital bombardment would destroy planets within minutes. Their FTL drives could allow them to do short hops into the middle of our fleets, unleash hell, and then hop out again.

Of course, I want to see it logically, what other way do you want to see it?

The FTL hops part, I don't know where did you get it... is part of the Codex or speculation?

Anyway, my point was to show that they are not undefeatable but the game forces you to that conclusion... wich sucks, just my opinion.

The FTL 'hops' was what the Turians did to the Reapers. No reason the Reapers couldn't do the same.

My point is that they are undefeatable for the races of the MEverse.

[incinerator950]

eddieoctane wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

*snip*

1. What you destroy with a cain was an AA tower...Not a reaper.
2. You have to take down the barrier first to damage them with a cain.
3. The fight would be taken out by Oculusway beforereaching the reaper.

1. Hades cannons are Reapers. Sorry, but you're wrong on that one.

2. I never had to take down the things' barriers to kill either of the destroyers on Earth. One had 2 missiles detonate well inside any barrier it may have had and was then blasted by tank fire which never hit a barrier. The other was the one you one-shot with a Cain.

3. I never said there wouldn't be casualties form sending fighters at the Reapers. But no defense is perfect, and a few well placed shots can do tremendous damage. Many kamikaze fighters were shot down before they could hit US ship. Those that did were devistatingly effective.

And my original point was that you can't claim the Reapers are that strong when BioWare plays fast and loose with the Reapers actual abilities. If they are nearly invincible, leave them nearly invincible. It was bad writing to one Reaper on Earth so easily slain when other require huge ammounts of fire.

Exactly, it is bad narration.  Also, why would the Reapers bother, if they felt threatened they would glass the entire planet. 

Like it was mentioned earlier, the Hades Cannons are remniscient of the first Star Ship Troopers movie.  Even nuking it with a Cain.