253 réponses à ce sujet

[Kr0gan]

111987 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...

111987 wrote...

Kr0gan wrote...


Sure but if you have enough EMS you can see a Reaper (Sovereign class) getting almost destroyed by a bunch of Dreadnaughts, now imagine if the Sword fleet keep it's distance and start concentrating the fire of the entire fleet (or at least a big part of them) into a single Reaper at a time... man, some dude playing EVE Online have more tactic sense than the Cmdr. of that fleet.
I'm just trying to use common sense, I know that the Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally but it's because the writers decided that so they could force their awful ending down our throats, not because it was really impossible from a logic point of view. If they couldn't be defeated conventionally they wouldn't have made all the effort of setting the trap of the Citadel and the Relay system... but apparently the writers forgot the ME1 plot so they just make all the Reapers "op".

Um no, the Relay and Citadel trap makes their job far easier, so of course they would still do it.

If we want to look at it logically, the Reapers could easily blast us all the hell from thousands of kilometers away. Orbital bombardment would destroy planets within minutes. Their FTL drives could allow them to do short hops into the middle of our fleets, unleash hell, and then hop out again.

Of course, I want to see it logically, what other way do you want to see it?

The FTL hops part, I don't know where did you get it... is part of the Codex or speculation?

Anyway, my point was to show that they are not undefeatable but the game forces you to that conclusion... wich sucks, just my opinion.

The FTL 'hops' was what the Turians did to the Reapers. No reason the Reapers couldn't do the same.

My point is that they are undefeatable for the races of the MEverse.

So speculation... this is turning into headcanon vs headcanon, mmm... I better get back to work.

Regards.

[NoUserNameHere]

Conventional victory is impossible because the writers can't draft a fictional military campaign within the typical Bioware mold. Hence our Reaper off button we're building without actually knowing anything, literally anything about it beyond the individual parts.

Pity. Last two games gave us every last fighting chance I can think of. Nothing comes of it. Nada.

[DeepChild]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Sorry OP but morale is not that big a deal. People dont suddenly become faster and stronger because they are happy. Strategy and tactics are what wins wars.

They're all critical components.  The guy with the plan won't do any good if he doesn't believe it will make a difference.  The guy with no plan won't do any good even if he's convinced himself he's going to succeed.  If I had to pick one though, it would be morale.  Consider this:

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan, 'press on' has solved, and always will solve, the problems of the human race." 
Calvin Coolidge 

[Vilegrim]

incinerator950 wrote...

It's not like English Knights losing to Scottish Peasants and militia, it's like Scottish Peasants fighting an AH-64D . Don't forget, while the Scotsman won those skirmishes, they're still under English law now, and have been for a long time.  If the Reapers win, we all lose permanently. 

because they took over England (or rather their king did )  http://en.wikipedia..../James_VI_and_I

[Rip504]

I would also like to point out the FACT that we see one Krogan male kill multiple Rachni,Then we also see 1 Krogan male being killed by 2 Husks. I would assume most Krogan males have high morale during combat on their home planet, the majority of the time.

So while we have examples of Krogan being the most bada** soldiers in the galaxy,we also have examples of them being somewhat easily killed. So yes we do have examples of conventional victories,but we also have examples of the Reapers completely dominating multiple species in ME3. The Reapers are fighting a war on how many fronts? And we have what 3 or 4 examples of conventional victories?

[tetsutsuru]

Peregrin25 wrote...

Me being military vet has nothing to do with the game. I just mention dthat because what OP said was true on how morale works. As far as Mass Effect 3 you have billions to help you fight and alot of hardcore fire power. Even in the cut scenes we saw some of the reaper ships being destroyed. Yeah not all, but still. Doesn't mean then they could start using tactics to actually fight the way a conventional war would be fought.

Another exapmple. Star Trek and their fight against the borg. They beat em. One would think beating borg that can assimilate you with just a touch how could you beat such a force and then have to turn your weapons on your former friends and compatriots. They did though. I knowing military history for the course of the last 5000 years. I have read and studies some of the most overwhelming odds being destroyed by so few. It's happened time and time again. Most notorious was the Greek and Persian war. 300 Spartans and about 6000 other greek soldiers from arround the country fended off wave after wave of persian assault for 7 days before being criumbled, but allowed Greece still out numbered by the sheer number of the enemy to push them back and send Xerxes running home and soon dying from a bacterial infection. The Persain Empire spanned the entire continent of Asia and Greece such a small spec of land compared to it's vastness triumphed a great evil.

When you have morale and inspire your men. Anything is possible. It's part of what makes the human spirit the human spirit. It is why we survive. It is instinct. We always find a way. Hypthetically speaking somthing like reapers does happen. Yes, it will be devestating, in the end I think we may come out on top. And if allied alien races help that just makes it much less of a chance of being defeated.

I make these coments based on realism and how things may turn out in a hypthetical situation.

Edit: And your comment is the kind of attitiude that gets men killed in combat. and then fail to achieve victory in said confrontation.

Rip504 wrote...

Liara says. That's who. Liara=Bioware Reapers=Bioware's story.
Yes there may be a 10% chance(If lucky as hell) of conventionally beating the Reapers. As we have an example and fact that Citadel Space is losing. Batarians gone,Asari,Turians,and Humans all getting beat hard. Not to mention the other races suffering significant losses. At the end of ME3 we are losing miserably. The entire galaxy map is being dominated and controlled by the Reapers.

Out of every example I have seen posted on this thread,I have yet to see one that shows one side getting beat horribly and then turning around and beating the Greater force. Reapers will not freeze and starve to death. We have seen a potential 1% of Reaper tactics. After we have won the war,Earth and most other worlds are nearly if not devastated and are in need of rebuilding. Also our resources,forces,etc are in need of rebuilding and replenishing etc. This is only after what seems to be a few short months in ME3.

So with conventional tactics we will start to win as the war goes on? Yes there is a small chance. Reapers can learn and adapt as well as we can. Their morale is that they are undefeatable. Will we ever break the Reapers will? How about their confidence? When we find a weakness,will they let us exploit it forever? Or will they fix it? A few thousand Reaper ships? How about the Billions of Husk and countless ground fodder?

The idea is that the Reapers are not a conventional enemy,therfor can not be beat conventionally. <-Bioware's opinion.

Most of Mass Effect 3 shows the Reapers charging and controlling multiple sectors, and Citadel races losing ground, falling back, or what not.

Why?  This is because Sword Fleet (note:  singular) and Hammer Teams DO NOT exist yet.  There's NO unity.  Sure we've (all our collective Shepards ) facilitated Krogan and some Quarian support on Palaven.  The Asari were pretty much on their own on Thessia.  The Alliance was flying solo on Earth.  Salarians were just hanging back, trying to be unnoticed on Sur'Kesh.  Etcetera.  There's no 'galactic fleet', no 'galactic army'.

But post-Chronos, is the FIRST time all our full military might butts will butt heads with Reaper forces.  And, as you can tell from the cinematics with high EMS, we can hit them back.  Hard.

[tetsutsuru]

tetsutsuru wrote...

Know a real-life soldier who's been in an actual combat But you know, you might not even need to, there are lots of realistic movies which portray such: 300, We Were Soldiers, Saving Private Ryan, Act of Valor. Even realistic, science fiction, Battle: Los Angeles.

Outnumbered? Outgunned? So, you gonna just bend over and let the Reapers have their way with you, and you just take it then? Hell, no! I'm gonna die, [u][i][b]but I'm gonna make my ONE, seemingly insignificant life cost them dearly to take.

Not saying that High EMS = High Morale = instant guaranteed victory against the Reapers. Morale is a wildcard which can definitely turn 'victory' from a mere dream or wishful thinking, into a fighting chance of possibility.

Rip504 wrote...

With Reaper forces? No I do not.
Movies=Proof. None of which represent the Reapers force,power,enslaving techniques,indoctrination abilities etc.
Battle:LA Slightly in a small way supports your theory,although it is also completely fictional.

How? The Reapers only concern is victory,if they are wining or are going to win,your sacrifice means nothing. Sorry. 1% possibility of winning is enough for you to throw away our super weapon? I disagree with the endings and would have loved to beat the Reapers conventionally,but it does seem a bit far fetched and unrealistic. IMO

I'm just writing off some of your comments as simple attempts at being cute.

And I do have a few of friends who have served and a couple who are in Active Duty and currently deployed.

300, fiction?  The movie adaptation, dramatized, obviously.  But the Battle of Thermopylae?  You think that's fiction?

We Were Soldiers, fiction?  You might wanna not mention that to Lieutenant General Hal Moore, US Army (Ret.).  If you do, be sure to have someone there to take a picture of his boot up your a**.

Overall, my assessment of your response:  you have missed my point about 'morale'.  Your rebuttal is moot.

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 14 mai 2012 - 09:12 .

[Rip504]

tetsutsuru wrote...


Most of Mass Effect 3 shows the Reapers charging and controlling multiple sectors, and Citadel races losing ground, falling back, or what not.

Why?  This is because Sword Fleet (note:  singular) and Hammer Teams DO NOT exist yet.  There's NO unity.  Sure we've (all our collective Shepards ) facilitated Krogan and some Quarian support on Palaven.  The Asari were pretty much on their own on Thessia.  The Alliance was flying solo on Earth.  Salarians were just hanging back, trying to be unnoticed on Sur'Kesh.  Etcetera.  There's no 'galactic fleet', no 'galactic army'.

But post-Chronos, is the FIRST time all our full military might butts will butt heads with Reaper forces.  And, as you can tell from the cinematics with high EMS, we can hit them back.  Hard.

Ok and for how long? And after the battle in the Sol system,how big will our galactic army be? Also after the Sol conflict, when the Reapers decide to wait on the other side of the relays what will we do? Jump through and be picked off like fish in a barrel? Sit in the Sol system and do nothing while the Reapers harvest all life and send Billions of Husk into the Sol system? What are the conventional means of winning? Defeat the Reapers in the Sol system and we win? I doubt it. What happens after Sol,when the Reapers decide to counter strike? What if 1 single Reapers goes Kamikaze and slams itself into the Relay destroying all of our galactic army and the entire Sol system?

[Catamantaloedis]

Rip504 wrote...

I would also like to point out the FACT that we see one Krogan male kill multiple Rachni,Then we also see 1 Krogan male being killed by 2 Husks. I would assume most Krogan males have high morale during combat on their home planet, the majority of the time.

So while we have examples of Krogan being the most bada** soldiers in the galaxy,we also have examples of them being somewhat easily killed. So yes we do have examples of conventional victories,but we also have examples of the Reapers completely dominating multiple species in ME3. The Reapers are fighting a war on how many fronts? And we have what 3 or 4 examples of conventional victories?

The scene with Grunt was for Artistic Integrity. 

Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 14 mai 2012 - 09:13 .

[incinerator950]

Vilegrim wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

It's not like English Knights losing to Scottish Peasants and militia, it's like Scottish Peasants fighting an AH-64D . Don't forget, while the Scotsman won those skirmishes, they're still under English law now, and have been for a long time.  If the Reapers win, we all lose permanently. 

because they took over England (or rather their king did )  http://en.wikipedia..../James_VI_and_I

Never noticed, not a history major.  Taking this from the fact a lot of the Scottish people I talk to want their country back.  

[Rip504]

tetsutsuru wrote...

I'm just writing off some of your comments as simple attempts at being cute.

And I do have a few of friends who have served and a couple who are in Active Duty and currently deployed.

300, fiction?  The movie adaptation, dramatized, obviously.  But the Battle of Thermopylae?  You think that's fiction?

We Were Soldiers, fiction?  You might wanna not mention that to Lieutenant General Hal Moore, US Army (Ret.).  If you do, be sure to have someone there to take a picture of his boot up your a**.

Overall, my assessment of your response:  you have missed my point about 'morale'.  Your rebuttal is moot.

:lol:
So you have friends whom have fought the Reapers? This is what I said,as most of us know a real life soldier or 2. My Father,Brother,Cousins,Nephews,friends have all served. Wow I know a real life soldier,I guess that gives me insight and entitlement to assume my assumptions are correct. I say conventional war, morale or not vs the Reapers has a very small chance of success.

When did I call either of those fiction? Your assumptions are wrong. I called Battle: LA fictional,do you disagree with that? Or are you just putting words in my mouth?  I have not missed your point of morale,again your assumption is wrong. I have included morale in my theory that conventional victory over the Reapers has a small chance of success nothing more. Maybe you are the one missing my point.

Modifié par Rip504, 14 mai 2012 - 09:24 .

[tetsutsuru]

tetsutsuru wrote...

Most of Mass Effect 3 shows the Reapers charging and controlling multiple sectors, and Citadel races losing ground, falling back, or what not.

Why? This is because Sword Fleet (note: singular) and Hammer Teams DO NOT exist yet. There's NO unity. Sure we've (all our collective Shepards ) facilitated Krogan and some Quarian support on Palaven. The Asari were pretty much on their own on Thessia. The Alliance was flying solo on Earth. Salarians were just hanging back, trying to be unnoticed on Sur'Kesh. Etcetera. There's no 'galactic fleet', no 'galactic army'.

But post-Chronos, is the FIRST time all our full military might butts will butt heads with Reaper forces. And, as you can tell from the cinematics with high EMS, we can hit them back. Hard.

Rip504 wrote...

Ok and for how long? And after the battle in the Sol system,how big will our galactic army be? Also after the Sol conflict, when the Reapers decide to wait on the other side of the relays what will we do? Jump through and be picked off like fish in a barrel? Sit in the Sol system and do nothing while the Reapers harvest all life and send Billions of Husk into the Sol system? What are the conventional means of winning? Defeat the Reapers in the Sol system and we win? I doubt it. What happens after Sol,when the Reapers decide to counter strike? What if 1 single Reapers goes Kamikaze and slams itself into the Relay destroying all of our galactic army and the entire Sol system?

Oh, thanks.  You brought up a point I would like to clarify on.  No worries, this is FREE.  And doesn't need a DLC.

Clarification on "Conventional Victory", or "Conventional Warfare" versus the Reapers.  Conventional Warfare against the Reapers is waging war without the use of that space magic wand called The Crucible, via any means necessary, which includes, but is not limited to:  armed and melee ground combat, in-atmospheric fighter combat, orbital strikes, capital ship combat, attrition, guerilla tactics (both on ground, orbit, and/or deep space).

Back to your post.

See, we don't know that.  The only ones with authority on that is BioWare, and they've not mentioned anything.  Although, there are 2 cutscenes I would like to cite as examples:  the Sword Fleet's arrival at Sol with (1) high EMS and (2) low EMS.

The 'low EMS' scene alone shows almost immediately how easily we're getting decimated, whereas the 'high EMS' variant of the same scene shows how we can take a punch to the face AND punch back almost just as hard.

As far as how much of that we can take, we are waiting on BioWare.

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

You know what if the writers wanted it the reapers could have been beaten conventionally. For instance the very day after the Battle of the Citadel.The major governments would have begun funding new projects to stop ships like Sovereign and given extra funding to crazy R&D projects that might prove fruitful against ships like the Reapers. I mean they just got their asses handed to them by a single ship, any proper government would be doing everything it could to make sure that would never happen again. To think the Thanix cannon's were the only development out of that research is just stupid.

[tetsutsuru]

tetsutsuru wrote...

I'm just writing off some of your comments as simple attempts at being cute.

And I do have a few of friends who have served and a couple who are in Active Duty and currently deployed.

300, fiction? The movie adaptation, dramatized, obviously. But the Battle of Thermopylae? You think that's fiction?

We Were Soldiers, fiction? You might wanna not mention that to Lieutenant General Hal Moore, US Army (Ret.). If you do, be sure to have someone there to take a picture of his boot up your a**.

Overall, my assessment of your response: you have missed my point about 'morale'. Your rebuttal is moot.

Rip504 wrote...

:lol:
So you have friends whom have fought the Reapers? This is what I said,as most of us know a real life soldier or 2. My Father,Brother,Cousins,Nephews,friends have all served. Wow I know a real life soldier,I guess that gives me insight and entitlement to assume my assumptions are correct. I say conventional war, morale or not vs the Reapers has a very small chance of success.

You were being cute earlier.  Now you're just being a troll.  SMH.

Although, in all seriousness, I am grateful for their service.  Hopefully they all made it back home without any issues and none worse for wear.  PTSD is... really something.  I wish could be cured.

Anyway....

Rip504 wrote...

When did I call either of those fiction? Your assumptions are wrong. I called Battle: LA fictional,do you disagree with that? Or are you just putting words in my mouth?  I have not missed your point of morale,again your assumption is wrong. I have included morale in my theory that conventional victory over the Reapers has a small chance of success nothing more. Maybe you are the one missing my point.

By dismissing them as "movies=proof".  If you think you didn't miss my point regarding morale, be it from cited non-fictional and fictional references, then good for you.  Personally, I'm not too sure.  We'll see.

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 14 mai 2012 - 09:38 .

[Shock n Awe]

Meatus wrote...

 Not to mention we single-handedly took down a Reaper on foot before, in less than 10 minutes. Sovereign was shredded similarly. And the one on Tuchanka was essentially hugged to death.

So yeah, I'd say they can be conventionally defeated as well.

If by "single-handedly" you mean "with a targeting laser and an entire space fleet" (it was only the heavy fleet involved, right?  Or the other fleets too?).  So all you need to do is get one non-Dreanought reaper to land, have all the Capitol Ships and other Reapers in space decide "Oh, yeah, we'll just sit this one out" and have an entire fleet fire multiple salvos at the one on the ground to kill it.  Totally.

Sovereign lost his shields and weapons control due to glitches ensuing after Saren's death, I wonder how that would have worked out if Saren didn't die considering Sovereign showed no signs of slowing down before that.

eddieoctane wrote...

Meatus wrote...

 Not to mention we single-handedly took down a Reaper on foot before, in less than 10 minutes. Sovereign was shredded similarly. And the one on Tuchanka was essentially hugged to death.

So yeah, I'd say they can be conventionally defeated as well.

I took down a Reaper in less than 10 seconds. My literal reaction: "Oh, look. An M-920 Cain. And a Reaper." *big explosion* "How the hell is a conventional victory not possible?!"

 

Reaper Anti-Air Cannon, not a reaper.  Just another piece of Reaper tech.

Modifié par Shock n Awe, 14 mai 2012 - 09:46 .

[tetsutsuru]

incinerator950 wrote...

What does it matter what you believe, what you saw by the end were Reaper's disengaging from the fight to battle Hammer forces. Not only that, Reapers were still in Orbit, winning.

Even with high EMS, they will win that fight eventually.

That small detachment of Reaper forces disengaged from the space battle against Sword Fleet to "reinforce" their ground forces in London.  Note:  "reinforce".  By definition, when do you reinforce something?  When what you have in place is inadequate or failing, right?

More specifically, failing, because Shepard and Hammer ground teams are breaking through some of their lines.

Simple fact:  we are a threat to them.  We know they are not invincible.  We know they can be killed.  And we have killed quite a few of them already.  And we outnumber them.

[Deemz]

J0HNL3I wrote...

Dantexr3 wrote...

I have another word:

Wrex.

Now a lot of reapers are going to die.

fixed:whistle:

Send them both in and end this thing in half the time!

Modifié par Deemz, 14 mai 2012 - 09:49 .

[Rip504]

tetsutsuru wrote...



See, we don't know that.  The only ones with authority on that is BioWare, and they've not mentioned anything.  Although, there are 2 cutscenes I would like to cite as examples:  the Sword Fleet's arrival at Sol with (1) high EMS and (2) low EMS.

The 'low EMS' scene alone shows almost immediately how easily we're getting decimated, whereas the 'high EMS' variant of the same scene shows how we can take a punch to the face AND punch back almost just as hard.

As far as how much of that we can take, we are waiting on BioWare.

I'm confused? If Bioware has the say, haven't they said the Reapers are an unconventional enemy and we are unable to beat them conventionally. Hence the Crucible?

My Example is Arrival: Now if we are beating the Reapers in the Sol system,why not destroy the Relay and everything in the Sol system? I am asking you if this were to happen,how will we beat the Reapers conventionally after this? Even if somehow the rest of the galaxy keeps "high morale". What if the Reaper were behind the Dark Energy consuming Haestrom's sun? What if they decided to inflict more suns with dark energy? How will we counter this? It is safe to assume we have not seen all of the Reaper tactics etc. The Reapers may be more then what we have seen thusfar. And if we are only taking from what we see in-game,I say a conventional victory is all but proven unlikely.

I am trolling? LMAO
I told and explained to you why your assumptions about me are wrong,but a contridiction of your beleifs has to be a troll,not another side.

MORALE does not equal conventional victory vs Reapers based on events slightly related to the Topic,no matter your wrong assumptions or baseless accusations.

[Apollo-XL5]

chuck norris can kill a reaper just by looking at it.

Now that is badass!

[Karimloo]

If BioWare wanted to make a conventional war (Which would have been better and more awesome) they could have pulled it off.

BUTT NOOOOOOO, SPECIAL SUPER DUPER SUPERWEAPON PEW PEW EXPROSION.

[Rip504]

tetsutsuru wrote...

The worst part is you are calling me a troll and I agree with you to a certain point. Although you have not answered my questions.
Yes a conventional victory is possible and morale can help obviously. I am saying there is likely less then a 10%
chance of conventional victory based on in-game content. High Morale included.

Your OP seems to imply that Morale is the reason conventional victory is possible. You know the whole one word that means conventional victory is possible title?. Now if you are trying to back track and state morale effects people,well then duh! High Morale could also lead to unnecessary risks etc. Morale does not make conventional victory possible,but yes it could help. How many football teams with high morale lose every Friday,Saturday and Sunday during the football season? O an example of high morale not helping. O no I must be trolling again.

Edit I have been posting on BSN for over 5 years,you are the first to claim that I am a troll. It doesn't bother enough to care past this point,but I do like to point it out when you are wrong.

Modifié par Rip504, 14 mai 2012 - 10:21 .

[tetsutsuru]

tetsutsuru wrote...

See, we don't know that. The only ones with authority on that is BioWare, and they've not mentioned anything. Although, there are 2 cutscenes I would like to cite as examples: the Sword Fleet's arrival at Sol with (1) high EMS and (2) low EMS.

The 'low EMS' scene alone shows almost immediately how easily we're getting decimated, whereas the 'high EMS' variant of the same scene shows how we can take a punch to the face AND punch back almost just as hard.

As far as how much of that we can take, we are waiting on BioWare.

Rip504 wrote...

I'm confused? If Bioware has the say, haven't they said the Reapers are an unconventional enemy and we are unable to beat them conventionally. Hence the Crucible?

My Example is Arrival: Now if we are beating the Reapers in the Sol system,why not destroy the Relay and everything in the Sol system? I am asking you if this were to happen,how will we beat the Reapers conventionally after this? Even if somehow the rest of the galaxy keeps "high morale". What if the Reaper were behind the Dark Energy consuming Haestrom's sun? What if they decided to inflict more suns with dark energy? How will we counter this? It is safe to assume we have not seen all of the Reaper tactics etc. The Reapers may be more then what we have seen thusfar. And if we are only taking from what we see in-game,I say a conventional victory is all but proven unlikely.

 
Now, ^ that, I will respond to.

Why does who not destroy (and cause a supernova-like explosion) the Charon Relay?  Sword-allied or Reapers?  Either could do so and damn near wipe out the other.

I only have what I'm shown and told (via in-game information).  I'm sure the Allied forces know that destroying a Mass Relay is an option.  However, I haven't a clue if they have a means to accomplish that on-command (maybe have some mass accelerator loaded with an asteriod (which is in abundance in the belt, right?) anyway, or set a capital ship on a collision course, or what not.  No mention in-game of Codex entry, none that I recall anyway.  If you read it, please feel free to post it.

Morale does help a lot.  Ground forces can fight harder and longer.  The Reapers have no morale.  No positive, nor negative.  their combat effectiveness is pretty much static.  There's a post somewhere in this thread on how the Reapers don't need sleep or rest, or foodstuffs, etc.  But then that's part of what we already have in place:  combat tactics.  Use your strengths, and their weaknesses.  Play to your advantages, and not theirs.  For example:  an a sniper infiltrator, my strenghts are long range, low-detectability combat.  With a horde of Husks incoming, I won't shift to melee.  Screw them.  I'll hit them at range.  They get close, I'll displace and reposition, and fire at range where I'm good at.  Same with Krogans.  If you see a sniping Krogan though....  LOL!

Although all this bit about Combat Tactics is quite outside the boundary of this discussion about morale.  Good/high morale can help open more options or opportunities otherwise unavailable.  Say someone's gotta hold this position.  If all of the squad are feeling defeated, that wouldn't be an option as to high morale where we'll have a couple of badasses who'll go, "yeah, we'll hold here.  You can take the rest and make a run for the LZ.  We got this."  Which is my point.

And again, high morale doesn't mean guaranteed victory.  But it does solidify a chance at that.  1% is still worlds better than absolute 0%, when you're fighting for everything, and everything's at stake.

Rip504 wrote...

I am trolling? LMAO
I told and explained to you why your assumptions about me are wrong,but a contridiction of your beleifs has to be a troll,not another side.

MORALE does not equal conventional victory vs Reapers based on events slightly related to the Topic,no matter your wrong assumptions or baseless accusations.

^ This, is just childish trolling again.

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 14 mai 2012 - 10:54 .

[DevilBeast]

tetsutsuru wrote...

tetsutsuru wrote...

Know a real-life soldier who's been in an actual combat But you know, you might not even need to, there are lots of realistic movies which portray such: 300, We Were Soldiers, Saving Private Ryan, Act of Valor. Even realistic, science fiction, Battle: Los Angeles.

Outnumbered? Outgunned? So, you gonna just bend over and let the Reapers have their way with you, and you just take it then? Hell, no! I'm gonna die, [u][i][b]but I'm gonna make my ONE, seemingly insignificant life cost them dearly to take.

Not saying that High EMS = High Morale = instant guaranteed victory against the Reapers. Morale is a wildcard which can definitely turn 'victory' from a mere dream or wishful thinking, into a fighting chance of possibility.

Rip504 wrote...

With Reaper forces? No I do not.
Movies=Proof. None of which represent the Reapers force,power,enslaving techniques,indoctrination abilities etc.
Battle:LA Slightly in a small way supports your theory,although it is also completely fictional.

How? The Reapers only concern is victory,if they are wining or are going to win,your sacrifice means nothing. Sorry. 1% possibility of winning is enough for you to throw away our super weapon? I disagree with the endings and would have loved to beat the Reapers conventionally,but it does seem a bit far fetched and unrealistic. IMO

I'm just writing off some of your comments as simple attempts at being cute.

And I do have a few of friends who have served and a couple who are in Active Duty and currently deployed.

300, fiction?  The movie adaptation, dramatized, obviously.  But the Battle of Thermopylae?  You think that's fiction?

We Were Soldiers, fiction?  You might wanna not mention that to Lieutenant General Hal Moore, US Army (Ret.).  If you do, be sure to have someone there to take a picture of his boot up your a**.

Overall, my assessment of your response:  you have missed my point about 'morale'.  Your rebuttal is moot.

It´s funny how you mention the Battle of Thermopylae as an example of how morale can win a battle, since they actually lost in that particular battle (another strange thing is how many assume there actually only were 300 men participating in that battle, when they were at least a thousand... If you include the troops from places such as Thespiae and Thebes).

[Klijpope]

Vilegrim wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

It's not like English Knights losing to Scottish Peasants and militia, it's like Scottish Peasants fighting an AH-64D . Don't forget, while the Scotsman won those skirmishes, they're still under English law now, and have been for a long time.  If the Reapers win, we all lose permanently. 

because they took over England (or rather their king did )  http://en.wikipedia..../James_VI_and_I

And that went so well - see Charles I...

A century later we invited some Germans to take over. They're still here.

[Klijpope]

tetsutsuru wrote...


300, fiction?  The movie adaptation, dramatized, obviously.  But the Battle of Thermopylae?  You think that's fiction?

300 Spartans, and their 5000 or so slaves and Thespians...