253 réponses à ce sujet

[MakeMineMako]

ReXspec wrote...

Reading the posts from supposed 'experts' have infuriated me, so, I'll try to keep this as short, coherent, and unbiased as I possibly can.  For all of you who are naturally cynical, I want you to stop and consider your own experience or your lack of one and read my words and carefully consider that there are possibilities and factors outside of the realm of mathematical, strategic, or logical understanding.  One of those realms is the realms of war... so, unless anyone here has fought in a ground war, I do not ask you to hold your tongue and consider what I'm about to say, gospel, but embrace humility for a second and read; consider.

I am Infantry.  United States Army.  4-31 IN "Polar Bears"  Charlie Company.  10th Mountain Division.  Roster number:  CM3526.

I was deployed with the 173D Airborne Brigade Combat Team "Sky Soldiers", 1-503D "First Rock" Charlie Company then HHC; previous roster numbers:  CM3526 then HM3526.  Former Paratrooper.

I was deployed to Afghanistan, Wardak Province as a Machine Gunner; my weapon system was the M249 SAW.  For six months I was thrust into theater as a nineteen-year-old Private with a rediculous amount of weight on my back and forced to  walk twenty-one plus clicks over jagged mountains.  Then, for the other six months, I was transferred to HHC as a Battalion Radio Telephone Operator because of PTSD; I had lost a friend in theater.  When I returned home, I was on the cusp of being promoted to a Sergeant, but I had discovered problems with my spine that had developed over the course of deployment, and am now being medically retired at four years of service as a Specialist.  So, I'd like to think that what I say holds some weight.

I apologize for getting too personal, and I don't mean to discredit people that have presented logical arguments thus far, but, saying this as a soldier, the OP is absolutely correct.

The battlefield high is a remarkable tool and weapon used by soldiers who faced insurmountable odds since the beginning of time.  To the educated, it is an extreme burst of adrenaline that pushes soldiers to the edge of human limits or even passed the line from human, to super-human.  Even for a foe as unconventional as the Reapers, the Reapers are still bound by the laws of reality, and therefore, the laws of war.  As such, they still have to deal with the obstacles of mass amounts of soldiers or small elite groups of soldiers who are enraged; having lost their planets, or are fighting for survival, the Reapers pit themselves against a ferocious enemies on all sides.  to counter this, the Reapers have tried a variety of tactics such as demoralization, or overwhelming firepower that has done all but push the front lines back--not annhilate them.  That is not the Reapers goal.  Because of this, the Reapers face a dilemma of bringing whole planets into "compliance" rather then annhilating planets altogether.  Can they annhilate planets?  Yes.  Do they want to?  No, not if they can help it.  The codex specifically states the Reapers don't want to wipe out all life; they need life in order to replenish and increase their numbers and strength.

Therefore, they need to secede to traditional military doctrine to some extent.  As such, they must fight in traditional ground wars.  And I say traditional because the tactics they use on the ground is nothing new--save for Troop Training Procedures that incorporate "harvesting" into their doctrine, but I consider that part of Reaper doctrine similar to what the SS were ordered to do during Hitler's "Final Solution": seek out the target population, bring them to heel, and "process" people on a mass scale (in a nutshell).

So whats the point of this long winded explanation?  Simple.  The Reapers fight with big guns and overwhelming force, so, the natural counter to this is spreading out forces into small teams and hit them where they are weakest.  This puts value on soldiers who (as previously mentioned) are, no doubt enraged and fighting for survival.

I don't know about you, but I know myself and pretty much everyone else in my unit would fight like demons if our homes were threatened.  Now Earth?  Take that to the next level.  NEVER underestimate the power of morale on the battlefield.  High morale coupled with a battlefield high can allow men weighed down with a-hundred pounds of gear to run down men garbed in a man-dress, armed with only an AK-47.  A high morale is what pushes men passed the 25 kilometer mark through jagged mountains and sewage trenches because their objective is in their scopes.

Soldier's who are enraged and have a high morale are a huge threat on the battlefield.  They are something to be feared.  The Reapers understand this--and that is why they design their warfare around breaking them.

I just want to say, first off, is thank you for your service. And I honor the memory of your friend who made the ultimate sacrifice for our country.

As for your post, I agree wholeheartedly. Morale is a big factor in wars. In Mass Effect 3, the Turians are proof of that.

They wouldn't stop and back down, despite horrendous losses. And they even took back large areas of Palaven, with Krogan suppport (which would be a BIG, BIG morale booster to the Turians who have been fighting from the start). Even the citizenry took up arms. Gotta love the Turians.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Galactic economy will collapse within one year because of massive loans and all the damage the Reapers did. Not to mention losing the Citadel, the center of government, is a crippling blow. Morale doesn't mean jack when you simply cannot build more ships.

Furthermore, the examples are flawed. We didn't kill a Reaper with the Cain, merely a stationary cannon. Killing the one on Earth required the sacrifice of most of Task Force Hammer, the crack of the galaxy's infantry, just to get the missiles into position. The one of Rannoch required the entire Migrant Fleet, which has Dreadnaught-level firepower several times over, focus firing on it. As for the one on Tuchanka, you got a gun that can fire the mother of all Tresher Maws lying around? Plus, it was merely a Destroyer type being tied down at ground level and compromised; a Sovereign-class in space would just blast the silly worm and call it a day.

As for Thanix Cannons, the Reapers have them too, remember? Not to mention their own ships are much, much tougher.

Look, heroically triumphing over the hostile hordes is good for many stories, but not Mass Effect. The Reapers have been built up to be a galaxy-ending threat; for us to beat them simply because we have ''good morale'' and slightly bigger guns would make me seriously ask how in hell could the Cycles last that long if it was that simple.  Like in Transformers movies where the US Army slaughters Decepticon by the dozens by itself; why the hell are the Autobots needed, again? Hell, the Protheans were a mighty militaristic empire apparently more advanced than us, and they got trounced. We can't beat them conventionally. Yes, it then requires us to use a plot device, but that's not bad by itself. Dragon Age:Origins had a very similar situation, and not many people I've talked found it anticlimatic that we ended the Blight within a year by killing the Archdemon. Because it came with a sacrifice, and the Warden's heroism was built up to all hell all game long. If ME3 had a Crucible-like plot device, that required a sacrifice to defeat the Reapers, it would have been alright. It's just that the sacrifice demanded is way too much for way too little gain in the eyes of many. It's not what you do, it's how you do it.

[poundoffleshaa]

What ever the Quarians were firing at Ranoch was massively low yield your Shepard is a couple of hundred meters away from the thing when its being hit and taking no damage. If the Quarians were actually firing anything remotly useful Shepard would be dead.

Modifié par poundoffleshaa, 15 mai 2012 - 01:22 .

[Beeno4Life]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

That's a nice sentiment, but it's ultimately worthless against an enemy that can plow through your best defenses with relative ease.

Co-sign. OP you said it yourself, you're getting this from movies. This isn't hollywood, or high-school football. Better strategy and numbers wins the war. Morale, at best, can give one of two evenly-matched armies an edge. But Reapers vs. galaxy is not evenly-matched.

'Don't buy conventional victory - never did.

Ohai Vietnam.

[tetsutsuru]

ReXspec wrote...

Reading the posts from supposed 'experts' have infuriated me, so, I'll try to keep this as short, coherent, and unbiased as I possibly can.  For all of you who are naturally cynical, I want you to stop and consider your own experience or your lack of one and read my words and carefully consider that there are possibilities and factors outside of the realm of mathematical, strategic, or logical understanding.  One of those realms is the realms of war... so, unless anyone here has fought in a ground war, I do not ask you to hold your tongue and consider what I'm about to say, gospel, but embrace humility for a second and read; consider.

I am Infantry.  United States Army.  4-31 IN "Polar Bears"  Charlie Company.  10th Mountain Division.  Roster number:  CM3526.

I was deployed with the 173D Airborne Brigade Combat Team "Sky Soldiers", 1-503D "First Rock" Charlie Company then HHC; previous roster numbers:  CM3526 then HM3526.  Former Paratrooper.

I was deployed to Afghanistan, Wardak Province as a Machine Gunner; my weapon system was the M249 SAW.  For six months I was thrust into theater as a nineteen-year-old Private with a rediculous amount of weight on my back and forced to  walk twenty-one plus clicks over jagged mountains.  Then, for the other six months, I was transferred to HHC as a Battalion Radio Telephone Operator because of PTSD; I had lost a friend in theater.  When I returned home, I was on the cusp of being promoted to a Sergeant, but I had discovered problems with my spine that had developed over the course of deployment, and am now being medically retired at four years of service as a Specialist.  So, I'd like to think that what I say holds some weight.

I apologize for getting too personal, and I don't mean to discredit people that have presented logical arguments thus far, but, saying this as a soldier, the OP is absolutely correct.

The battlefield high is a remarkable tool and weapon used by soldiers who faced insurmountable odds since the beginning of time.  To the educated, it is an extreme burst of adrenaline that pushes soldiers to the edge of human limits or even passed the line from human, to super-human.  Even for a foe as unconventional as the Reapers, the Reapers are still bound by the laws of reality, and therefore, the laws of war.  As such, they still have to deal with the obstacles of mass amounts of soldiers or small elite groups of soldiers who are enraged; having lost their planets, or are fighting for survival, the Reapers pit themselves against a ferocious enemies on all sides.  to counter this, the Reapers have tried a variety of tactics such as demoralization, or overwhelming firepower that has done all but push the front lines back--not annhilate them.  That is not the Reapers goal.  Because of this, the Reapers face a dilemma of bringing whole planets into "compliance" rather then annhilating planets altogether.  Can they annhilate planets?  Yes.  Do they want to?  No, not if they can help it.  The codex specifically states the Reapers don't want to wipe out all life; they need life in order to replenish and increase their numbers and strength.

Therefore, they need to secede to traditional military doctrine to some extent.  As such, they must fight in traditional ground wars.  And I say traditional because the tactics they use on the ground is nothing new--save for Troop Training Procedures that incorporate "harvesting" into their doctrine, but I consider that part of Reaper doctrine similar to what the SS were ordered to do during Hitler's "Final Solution": seek out the target population, bring them to heel, and "process" people on a mass scale (in a nutshell).

So whats the point of this long winded explanation?  Simple.  The Reapers fight with big guns and overwhelming force, so, the natural counter to this is spreading out forces into small teams and hit them where they are weakest.  This puts value on soldiers who (as previously mentioned) are, no doubt enraged and fighting for survival.

I don't know about you, but I know myself and pretty much everyone else in my unit would fight like demons if our homes were threatened.  Now Earth?  Take that to the next level.  NEVER underestimate the power of morale on the battlefield.  High morale coupled with a battlefield high can allow men weighed down with a-hundred pounds of gear to run down men garbed in a man-dress, armed with only an AK-47.  A high morale is what pushes men passed the 25 kilometer mark through jagged mountains and sewage trenches because their objective is in their scopes.

Soldier's who are enraged and have a high morale are a huge threat on the battlefield.  They are something to be feared.  The Reapers understand this--and that is why they design their warfare around breaking them.

Off-topic, but I don't care, and agreeing with my post and perspective aside:

Sir, I sincerely thank you for your service.

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 15 mai 2012 - 01:24 .

[NoUserNameHere]

poundoffleshaa wrote...

What ever the Quarians were firing at Ranoch was massively low yield your Shepard is a couple of hundred meters away from the thing when its being hit and taking no damage. If the Quarians were actually firing anything remotly useful Shepard would be dead.

If they really wanted that scene to have 'the entire Quarian fleet' take out the Reaper, Shep should've been aiming out of the back of that moving truck, and it should've been a Reaper dreadnaught that got fried.

[ReXspec]

Beeno4Life wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

That's a nice sentiment, but it's ultimately worthless against an enemy that can plow through your best defenses with relative ease.

Co-sign. OP you said it yourself, you're getting this from movies. This isn't hollywood, or high-school football. Better strategy and numbers wins the war. Morale, at best, can give one of two evenly-matched armies an edge. But Reapers vs. galaxy is not evenly-matched.

'Don't buy conventional victory - never did.

Ohai Vietnam.

As much as I hate to admit it, this.^

Again, you cannot win a war on morale alone, but it is, more often then not, a deciding factor.

Vietnam exploited this to a maximum degree.  Their WHOLE DOCTRINE was almost entirely focused on maming, damaging, and shocking soldiers.  Not to mention throwing EVERYTHING at fights they knew they would win, and using minimal force for fights they knew they would lose.

Modifié par ReXspec, 15 mai 2012 - 01:34 .

[Ticonderoga117]

Beeno4Life wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

That's a nice sentiment, but it's ultimately worthless against an enemy that can plow through your best defenses with relative ease.

Co-sign. OP you said it yourself, you're getting this from movies. This isn't hollywood, or high-school football. Better strategy and numbers wins the war. Morale, at best, can give one of two evenly-matched armies an edge. But Reapers vs. galaxy is not evenly-matched.

'Don't buy conventional victory - never did.

Ohai Vietnam.

Don't forget the Winter War.

[KaeserZen]

What I find really fun in this thread is all the BSN warfare experts "proving" the OP's point wrong and dismissing his claim the Turian Councilor ways, when they probably never held a weapon in a combat theater nor got in a fight or flee situation...

... and on the other side of the ring, we have two real war veterans, not make beleive, that back up the OP's words 100%. In situations dealing extreme conditions over humans, I prefer to trust experience over logic on this one.

Morale works a bit like the power recharge rate in the multiplayer : if a power recharges in 5 seconds at +0%, it will recharge at ~1.7s at +200%, but at ~29s at -200%.
Having a high resolve doesn't make you a super saiyan, it does however push forward your risk acceptance ceiling AND sharpens your mind and body, allowing to acheive feats not previously thought possible.

People always think math and numbers win wars. What they forget all too often is that behind the superior weapons, behind the warfare gear, it's human beings manning them, even in our days of digital warfare.

[daecath]

eddieoctane wrote...

Meatus wrote...

 Not to mention we single-handedly took down a Reaper on foot before, in less than 10 minutes. Sovereign was shredded similarly. And the one on Tuchanka was essentially hugged to death.

So yeah, I'd say they can be conventionally defeated as well.

I took down a Reaper in less than 10 seconds. My literal reaction: "Oh, look. An M-920 Cain. And a Reaper." *big explosion* "How the hell is a conventional victory not possible?!"

My reaction: "Ok guys, you can all go home, I got this. Here Harby Harby Harby."

And I know people are going to say "well that was only a thus-and-such type of reaper, and these other kinds over here are way more powerful." But seriously, it makes absolutely no sense that one kind of reaper can be blown apart by a hand cannon and another kind requires 4 of the strongest ships in the fleet ganging up on it to take it down.

[Peregrin25]

ReXspec wrote...

Reading the posts from supposed 'experts' have infuriated me, so, I'll try to keep this as short, coherent, and unbiased as I possibly can.  For all of you who are naturally cynical, I want you to stop and consider your own experience or your lack of one and read my words and carefully consider that there are possibilities and factors outside of the realm of mathematical, strategic, or logical understanding.  One of those realms is the realms of war... so, unless anyone here has fought in a ground war, I do not ask you to hold your tongue and consider what I'm about to say, gospel, but embrace humility for a second and read; consider.

I am Infantry.  United States Army.  4-31 IN "Polar Bears"  Charlie Company.  10th Mountain Division.  Roster number:  CM3526.

I was deployed with the 173D Airborne Brigade Combat Team "Sky Soldiers", 1-503D "First Rock" Charlie Company then HHC; previous roster numbers:  CM3526 then HM3526.  Former Paratrooper.

I was deployed to Afghanistan, Wardak Province as a Machine Gunner; my weapon system was the M249 SAW.  For six months I was thrust into theater as a nineteen-year-old Private with a rediculous amount of weight on my back and forced to  walk twenty-one plus clicks over jagged mountains.  Then, for the other six months, I was transferred to HHC as a Battalion Radio Telephone Operator because of PTSD; I had lost a friend in theater.  When I returned home, I was on the cusp of being promoted to a Sergeant, but I had discovered problems with my spine that had developed over the course of deployment, and am now being medically retired at four years of service as a Specialist.  So, I'd like to think that what I say holds some weight.

I apologize for getting too personal, and I don't mean to discredit people that have presented logical arguments thus far, but, saying this as a soldier, the OP is absolutely correct.

The battlefield high is a remarkable tool and weapon used by soldiers who faced insurmountable odds since the beginning of time.  To the educated, it is an extreme burst of adrenaline that pushes soldiers to the edge of human limits or even passed the line from human, to super-human.  Even for a foe as unconventional as the Reapers, the Reapers are still bound by the laws of reality, and therefore, the laws of war.  As such, they still have to deal with the obstacles of mass amounts of soldiers or small elite groups of soldiers who are enraged; having lost their planets, or are fighting for survival, the Reapers pit themselves against a ferocious enemies on all sides.  to counter this, the Reapers have tried a variety of tactics such as demoralization, or overwhelming firepower that has done all but push the front lines back--not annhilate them.  That is not the Reapers goal.  Because of this, the Reapers face a dilemma of bringing whole planets into "compliance" rather then annhilating planets altogether.  Can they annhilate planets?  Yes.  Do they want to?  No, not if they can help it.  The codex specifically states the Reapers don't want to wipe out all life; they need life in order to replenish and increase their numbers and strength.

Therefore, they need to secede to traditional military doctrine to some extent.  As such, they must fight in traditional ground wars.  And I say traditional because the tactics they use on the ground is nothing new--save for Troop Training Procedures that incorporate "harvesting" into their doctrine, but I consider that part of Reaper doctrine similar to what the SS were ordered to do during Hitler's "Final Solution": seek out the target population, bring them to heel, and "process" people on a mass scale (in a nutshell).

So whats the point of this long winded explanation?  Simple.  The Reapers fight with big guns and overwhelming force, so, the natural counter to this is spreading out forces into small teams and hit them where they are weakest.  This puts value on soldiers who (as previously mentioned) are, no doubt enraged and fighting for survival.

I don't know about you, but I know myself and pretty much everyone else in my unit would fight like demons if our homes were threatened.  Now Earth?  Take that to the next level.  NEVER underestimate the power of morale on the battlefield.  High morale coupled with a battlefield high can allow men weighed down with a-hundred pounds of gear to run down men garbed in a man-dress, armed with only an AK-47.  A high morale is what pushes men passed the 25 kilometer mark through jagged mountains and sewage trenches because their objective is in their scopes.

Soldier's who are enraged and have a high morale are a huge threat on the battlefield.  They are something to be feared.  The Reapers understand this--and that is why they design their warfare around breaking them.

I tried to say somthing like that in far fewer words of course lol, but yeah. point well made. You did better of it than I did. so many people willing to write off morale lol. It can do wonders. I have seen it first hand when I was in Iraq back in 2005. On top of what you said. I would like to add the Positive Mental Attitude. I am sure you heard that before as well. having a positive mental attitude can have an amazing effect too.

[ReXspec]

MakeMineMako wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

Reading the posts from supposed 'experts' have infuriated me, so, I'll try to keep this as short, coherent, and unbiased as I possibly can.  For all of you who are naturally cynical, I want you to stop and consider your own experience or your lack of one and read my words and carefully consider that there are possibilities and factors outside of the realm of mathematical, strategic, or logical understanding.  One of those realms is the realms of war... so, unless anyone here has fought in a ground war, I do not ask you to hold your tongue and consider what I'm about to say, gospel, but embrace humility for a second and read; consider.

I am Infantry.  United States Army.  4-31 IN "Polar Bears"  Charlie Company.  10th Mountain Division.  Roster number:  CM3526.

I was deployed with the 173D Airborne Brigade Combat Team "Sky Soldiers", 1-503D "First Rock" Charlie Company then HHC; previous roster numbers:  CM3526 then HM3526.  Former Paratrooper.

I was deployed to Afghanistan, Wardak Province as a Machine Gunner; my weapon system was the M249 SAW.  For six months I was thrust into theater as a nineteen-year-old Private with a rediculous amount of weight on my back and forced to  walk twenty-one plus clicks over jagged mountains.  Then, for the other six months, I was transferred to HHC as a Battalion Radio Telephone Operator because of PTSD; I had lost a friend in theater.  When I returned home, I was on the cusp of being promoted to a Sergeant, but I had discovered problems with my spine that had developed over the course of deployment, and am now being medically retired at four years of service as a Specialist.  So, I'd like to think that what I say holds some weight.

I apologize for getting too personal, and I don't mean to discredit people that have presented logical arguments thus far, but, saying this as a soldier, the OP is absolutely correct.

The battlefield high is a remarkable tool and weapon used by soldiers who faced insurmountable odds since the beginning of time.  To the educated, it is an extreme burst of adrenaline that pushes soldiers to the edge of human limits or even passed the line from human, to super-human.  Even for a foe as unconventional as the Reapers, the Reapers are still bound by the laws of reality, and therefore, the laws of war.  As such, they still have to deal with the obstacles of mass amounts of soldiers or small elite groups of soldiers who are enraged; having lost their planets, or are fighting for survival, the Reapers pit themselves against a ferocious enemies on all sides.  to counter this, the Reapers have tried a variety of tactics such as demoralization, or overwhelming firepower that has done all but push the front lines back--not annhilate them.  That is not the Reapers goal.  Because of this, the Reapers face a dilemma of bringing whole planets into "compliance" rather then annhilating planets altogether.  Can they annhilate planets?  Yes.  Do they want to?  No, not if they can help it.  The codex specifically states the Reapers don't want to wipe out all life; they need life in order to replenish and increase their numbers and strength.

Therefore, they need to secede to traditional military doctrine to some extent.  As such, they must fight in traditional ground wars.  And I say traditional because the tactics they use on the ground is nothing new--save for Troop Training Procedures that incorporate "harvesting" into their doctrine, but I consider that part of Reaper doctrine similar to what the SS were ordered to do during Hitler's "Final Solution": seek out the target population, bring them to heel, and "process" people on a mass scale (in a nutshell).

So whats the point of this long winded explanation?  Simple.  The Reapers fight with big guns and overwhelming force, so, the natural counter to this is spreading out forces into small teams and hit them where they are weakest.  This puts value on soldiers who (as previously mentioned) are, no doubt enraged and fighting for survival.

I don't know about you, but I know myself and pretty much everyone else in my unit would fight like demons if our homes were threatened.  Now Earth?  Take that to the next level.  NEVER underestimate the power of morale on the battlefield.  High morale coupled with a battlefield high can allow men weighed down with a-hundred pounds of gear to run down men garbed in a man-dress, armed with only an AK-47.  A high morale is what pushes men passed the 25 kilometer mark through jagged mountains and sewage trenches because their objective is in their scopes.

Soldier's who are enraged and have a high morale are a huge threat on the battlefield.  They are something to be feared.  The Reapers understand this--and that is why they design their warfare around breaking them.

I just want to say, first off, is thank you for your service. And I honor the memory of your friend who made the ultimate sacrifice for our country.

As for your post, I agree wholeheartedly. Morale is a big factor in wars. In Mass Effect 3, the Turians are proof of that.

They wouldn't stop and back down, despite horrendous losses. And they even took back large areas of Palaven, with Krogan suppport (which would be a BIG, BIG morale booster to the Turians who have been fighting from the start). Even the citizenry took up arms. Gotta love the Turians.

TURIANS Yes.  If I had to make a real world comparison, I'd call the Turian's galactic versions of Japan or Vietnam (as far as military doctrine goes, anyway).  I'm sure there are other comparisons one could make, but they escape me...

And thank you.

[ReXspec]

Peregrin25 wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

Reading the posts from supposed 'experts' have infuriated me, so, I'll try to keep this as short, coherent, and unbiased as I possibly can.  For all of you who are naturally cynical, I want you to stop and consider your own experience or your lack of one and read my words and carefully consider that there are possibilities and factors outside of the realm of mathematical, strategic, or logical understanding.  One of those realms is the realms of war... so, unless anyone here has fought in a ground war, I do not ask you to hold your tongue and consider what I'm about to say, gospel, but embrace humility for a second and read; consider.

I am Infantry.  United States Army.  4-31 IN "Polar Bears"  Charlie Company.  10th Mountain Division.  Roster number:  CM3526.

I was deployed with the 173D Airborne Brigade Combat Team "Sky Soldiers", 1-503D "First Rock" Charlie Company then HHC; previous roster numbers:  CM3526 then HM3526.  Former Paratrooper.

I was deployed to Afghanistan, Wardak Province as a Machine Gunner; my weapon system was the M249 SAW.  For six months I was thrust into theater as a nineteen-year-old Private with a rediculous amount of weight on my back and forced to  walk twenty-one plus clicks over jagged mountains.  Then, for the other six months, I was transferred to HHC as a Battalion Radio Telephone Operator because of PTSD; I had lost a friend in theater.  When I returned home, I was on the cusp of being promoted to a Sergeant, but I had discovered problems with my spine that had developed over the course of deployment, and am now being medically retired at four years of service as a Specialist.  So, I'd like to think that what I say holds some weight.

I apologize for getting too personal, and I don't mean to discredit people that have presented logical arguments thus far, but, saying this as a soldier, the OP is absolutely correct.

The battlefield high is a remarkable tool and weapon used by soldiers who faced insurmountable odds since the beginning of time.  To the educated, it is an extreme burst of adrenaline that pushes soldiers to the edge of human limits or even passed the line from human, to super-human.  Even for a foe as unconventional as the Reapers, the Reapers are still bound by the laws of reality, and therefore, the laws of war.  As such, they still have to deal with the obstacles of mass amounts of soldiers or small elite groups of soldiers who are enraged; having lost their planets, or are fighting for survival, the Reapers pit themselves against a ferocious enemies on all sides.  to counter this, the Reapers have tried a variety of tactics such as demoralization, or overwhelming firepower that has done all but push the front lines back--not annhilate them.  That is not the Reapers goal.  Because of this, the Reapers face a dilemma of bringing whole planets into "compliance" rather then annhilating planets altogether.  Can they annhilate planets?  Yes.  Do they want to?  No, not if they can help it.  The codex specifically states the Reapers don't want to wipe out all life; they need life in order to replenish and increase their numbers and strength.

Therefore, they need to secede to traditional military doctrine to some extent.  As such, they must fight in traditional ground wars.  And I say traditional because the tactics they use on the ground is nothing new--save for Troop Training Procedures that incorporate "harvesting" into their doctrine, but I consider that part of Reaper doctrine similar to what the SS were ordered to do during Hitler's "Final Solution": seek out the target population, bring them to heel, and "process" people on a mass scale (in a nutshell).

So whats the point of this long winded explanation?  Simple.  The Reapers fight with big guns and overwhelming force, so, the natural counter to this is spreading out forces into small teams and hit them where they are weakest.  This puts value on soldiers who (as previously mentioned) are, no doubt enraged and fighting for survival.

I don't know about you, but I know myself and pretty much everyone else in my unit would fight like demons if our homes were threatened.  Now Earth?  Take that to the next level.  NEVER underestimate the power of morale on the battlefield.  High morale coupled with a battlefield high can allow men weighed down with a-hundred pounds of gear to run down men garbed in a man-dress, armed with only an AK-47.  A high morale is what pushes men passed the 25 kilometer mark through jagged mountains and sewage trenches because their objective is in their scopes.

Soldier's who are enraged and have a high morale are a huge threat on the battlefield.  They are something to be feared.  The Reapers understand this--and that is why they design their warfare around breaking them.

I tried to say somthing like that in far fewer words of course lol, but yeah. point well made. You did better of it than I did. so many people willing to write off morale lol. It can do wonders. I have seen it first hand when I was in Iraq back in 2005. On top of what you said. I would like to add the Positive Mental Attitude. I am sure you heard that before as well. having a positive mental attitude can have an amazing effect too.

Indeed, I have heard the Positive Mental Attitude pitch.  I'm glad to see another soldier on BSN also.

Thank you for your service.

[OdanUrr]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Perish the thought! We fight or we die, that's the plan!

Well that's a good general plan, but in the whole "How does this help me?" for the regular trooper, not so much help.

A few tips for the rookie soldier...

"If someone fires at you, they're the enemy. If they don't, they may have run out of bullets."

"The key to staying alive is not dying. The key to not dying, well, I haven't found that one yet."

"The enemy of your enemy is not your friend. He's not even your enemy. He just complicates things. Shoot him."

"Your rifle won't solve all of your problems. That's where your sidearm comes in. And the knife. And the grenades."

"There's no such thing as overkill. There's dead, not-dead, and you picking one or the other."

"When in doubt, shoot something."

[ReXspec]

KaeserZen wrote...

What I find really fun in this thread is all the BSN warfare experts "proving" the OP's point wrong and dismissing his claim the Turian Councilor ways, when they probably never held a weapon in a combat theater nor got in a fight or flee situation...

... and on the other side of the ring, we have two real war veterans, not make beleive, that back up the OP's words 100%. In situations dealing extreme conditions over humans, I prefer to trust experience over logic on this one.

Morale works a bit like the power recharge rate in the multiplayer : if a power recharges in 5 seconds at +0%, it will recharge at ~1.7s at +200%, but at ~29s at -200%.
Having a high resolve doesn't make you a super saiyan, it does however push forward your risk acceptance ceiling AND sharpens your mind and body, allowing to acheive feats not previously thought possible.

People always think math and numbers win wars. What they forget all too often is that behind the superior weapons, behind the warfare gear, it's human beings manning them, even in our days of digital warfare.

As much as I appreciate the advocacy, I can't blame people for basing opinions on limited experience--not EVERYONE is going to be a soldier, but, again, I appreciate the appreciation.

Humans are pattern-seeking creatures, though.  All too often, however, this makes people cold to the fact that war is far too conflagrant and volatile to predict the outcome of 99% of combat scenarios.

[ReXspec]

tetsutsuru wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

Reading the posts from supposed 'experts' have infuriated me, so, I'll try to keep this as short, coherent, and unbiased as I possibly can.  For all of you who are naturally cynical, I want you to stop and consider your own experience or your lack of one and read my words and carefully consider that there are possibilities and factors outside of the realm of mathematical, strategic, or logical understanding.  One of those realms is the realms of war... so, unless anyone here has fought in a ground war, I do not ask you to hold your tongue and consider what I'm about to say, gospel, but embrace humility for a second and read; consider.

I am Infantry.  United States Army.  4-31 IN "Polar Bears"  Charlie Company.  10th Mountain Division.  Roster number:  CM3526.

I was deployed with the 173D Airborne Brigade Combat Team "Sky Soldiers", 1-503D "First Rock" Charlie Company then HHC; previous roster numbers:  CM3526 then HM3526.  Former Paratrooper.

I was deployed to Afghanistan, Wardak Province as a Machine Gunner; my weapon system was the M249 SAW.  For six months I was thrust into theater as a nineteen-year-old Private with a rediculous amount of weight on my back and forced to  walk twenty-one plus clicks over jagged mountains.  Then, for the other six months, I was transferred to HHC as a Battalion Radio Telephone Operator because of PTSD; I had lost a friend in theater.  When I returned home, I was on the cusp of being promoted to a Sergeant, but I had discovered problems with my spine that had developed over the course of deployment, and am now being medically retired at four years of service as a Specialist.  So, I'd like to think that what I say holds some weight.

I apologize for getting too personal, and I don't mean to discredit people that have presented logical arguments thus far, but, saying this as a soldier, the OP is absolutely correct.

The battlefield high is a remarkable tool and weapon used by soldiers who faced insurmountable odds since the beginning of time.  To the educated, it is an extreme burst of adrenaline that pushes soldiers to the edge of human limits or even passed the line from human, to super-human.  Even for a foe as unconventional as the Reapers, the Reapers are still bound by the laws of reality, and therefore, the laws of war.  As such, they still have to deal with the obstacles of mass amounts of soldiers or small elite groups of soldiers who are enraged; having lost their planets, or are fighting for survival, the Reapers pit themselves against a ferocious enemies on all sides.  to counter this, the Reapers have tried a variety of tactics such as demoralization, or overwhelming firepower that has done all but push the front lines back--not annhilate them.  That is not the Reapers goal.  Because of this, the Reapers face a dilemma of bringing whole planets into "compliance" rather then annhilating planets altogether.  Can they annhilate planets?  Yes.  Do they want to?  No, not if they can help it.  The codex specifically states the Reapers don't want to wipe out all life; they need life in order to replenish and increase their numbers and strength.

Therefore, they need to secede to traditional military doctrine to some extent.  As such, they must fight in traditional ground wars.  And I say traditional because the tactics they use on the ground is nothing new--save for Troop Training Procedures that incorporate "harvesting" into their doctrine, but I consider that part of Reaper doctrine similar to what the SS were ordered to do during Hitler's "Final Solution": seek out the target population, bring them to heel, and "process" people on a mass scale (in a nutshell).

So whats the point of this long winded explanation?  Simple.  The Reapers fight with big guns and overwhelming force, so, the natural counter to this is spreading out forces into small teams and hit them where they are weakest.  This puts value on soldiers who (as previously mentioned) are, no doubt enraged and fighting for survival.

I don't know about you, but I know myself and pretty much everyone else in my unit would fight like demons if our homes were threatened.  Now Earth?  Take that to the next level.  NEVER underestimate the power of morale on the battlefield.  High morale coupled with a battlefield high can allow men weighed down with a-hundred pounds of gear to run down men garbed in a man-dress, armed with only an AK-47.  A high morale is what pushes men passed the 25 kilometer mark through jagged mountains and sewage trenches because their objective is in their scopes.

Soldier's who are enraged and have a high morale are a huge threat on the battlefield.  They are something to be feared.  The Reapers understand this--and that is why they design their warfare around breaking them.

Off-topic, but I don't care, and agreeing with my post and perspective aside:

Sir, I sincerely thank you for your service.

Thank you.  -bow, bow-  Always appreciated.

[clipped_wolf]

Other single words:
Desperation
Resolve

To quote a WW2 vet, "We figured we was gonna' die. So, we was gonna' die fightin'."

Modifié par clipped_wolf, 15 mai 2012 - 01:49 .

[ReXspec]

clipped_wolf wrote...

Other single words:
Desperation
Resolve

To quote a WW2 vet, "We figured we was gonna' die. So, we was gonna' die fightin'."

Agreed.

[ShepnTali]

The one word that comes to my mind is creativity.

[Eterna]

If you honestly think Morale will enable you to beat an enemy that's more advanced physically, technically, and strategically, then I suggest you go read about the Native Americans and be enlightened.

[Ticonderoga117]

OdanUrr wrote...

A few tips for the rookie soldier...

"If someone fires at you, they're the enemy. If they don't, they may have run out of bullets."

"The key to staying alive is not dying. The key to not dying, well, I haven't found that one yet."

"The enemy of your enemy is not your friend. He's not even your enemy. He just complicates things. Shoot him."

"Your rifle won't solve all of your problems. That's where your sidearm comes in. And the knife. And the grenades."

"There's no such thing as overkill. There's dead, not-dead, and you picking one or the other."

"When in doubt, shoot something."

Ah, finally some common sense. You can now replace Hackett, so get to work.

[NoUserNameHere]

Eterna5 wrote...

If you honestly think Morale will enable you to beat an enemy that's more advanced physically, technically, and strategically, then I suggest you go read about the Native Americans and be enlightened.

We're guessing their movemments, if  you've done a certain asari fetch quest. We've stolen their guns for the Thanix cannon, so it's not like they're tech it totally foreign to us.


I still maintain that, with max EMS, a certain inspiring speech from Shepard would've been a cheezy (but passable) way to turn the tide.

Modifié par NoUserNameHere, 15 mai 2012 - 02:00 .

[Karolus_V]

If some attack is going to well, don't worry, is an ambush.