636 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

Grimwick wrote...
Yes, this is a massive problem with the ending.

The other problem for me is that it even extends from the point of apathy - to that of heartbreak.If you romance Garrus/Liara/Tali (for example) they all have lines about your future as a couple. You genuinely care about them and their interactions with Shepard. Liara's romance in LotSB and ME3 plays heavily on what the future holds for them, be it blue children or finding somplace peaceful. Tali's romance talks about that house on Rannoch and Garrus... well he's always cared for Shepard.

But Bioware not only ignores this entire concept, it goes furhter by killing any hope of their futures together. It just eradicates the idea that your character, and the characters you care about will be happy after ME3 - they won't be. It makes me feel far more depressed when Liara speaks about blue babies now I know they will never be.

Thanks for the knife in the heart, BW.

Exactly. Some people on these forums go on and on about the "emotional impact" of the endings - that the "first experience" is all that matters. What emotion is that? Depression? I don't need more of that.

Seriously, what was the thought process here? You invite players to spend up to two hundred hours across three games in a single playthrough, building relationships, getting invested, making promises... and then not keep any of them. Sorry. That's not enjoyable at all. That's not an experience I care to subject myself to more than once. I'll admit it - my primary motivation to play the third game was to see the war through to its end, so I could see all those hours of effort pay off with a gratifying conclusion. I wanted to earn that house on Rannoch, and I was willing to work my ass off for it - and I don't give a damn what anyone else might think of me for that.

If I can't get two enjoyable playthroughs out of a game, to me it was a waste of money. Don't expect future DLC purchases from dissatisfied customers.

[SynheKatze]

The last five minutes did not ruin everything, the whole game was subpar and full of idiocy, the contrived ending was just the icing to the cake.

[lillitheris]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

It didn't ruin Mass Effect 3 either. You claim that Bioware ruined the ending when it's been revealed that the entire game was an ending. Everything Bioware claimed about the series conclusion was meant to apply to the entire game, not the last five minutes.

Look, we have no problems understanding that you and some 20% of other players were fine with it. More power to you.

Do you understand that the rest of us weren’t? That it actually does ruin the series for some person who is not you?

Out of three and a half million sales worldwide, only about 60 or so thousand are making complaints about the ending, and you say we're the 20%?

Yes.

But regardless, do you understand that it actually does ruin the series for people?

[Comm1Sheppard]

Any way i finnish mass effect 3 many times by now and all i can say game is good but not so good like ME1 and ME2 together sorry.

Modifié par Comm1Sheppard, 14 mai 2012 - 09:06 .

[furryrage59]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Ajx- wrote...

@grey nayr

Last 5 minutes didn't ruin the previous games. I still think ME2 was better. It just, as the comic points out, makes them irrelevant. I have yet to go back to ME2 or ME3 campaign since beating 3. It may have ruined some of the replayability of the previous titles tho.

It didn't ruin Mass Effect 3 either. You claim that Bioware ruined the ending when it's been revealed that the entire game was an ending. Everything Bioware claimed about the series conclusion was meant to apply to the entire game, not the last five minutes.

I cured the genophage and gave Wrex a chance to reform his people.

I made peace between the Quarians and the Geth and returned the formers to their homeworld.

I pounded Cerberus into the ground.

I completed my romance.

I learned the truth about the Reapers and made the decision to put them down and get out alive(if EMS is over 4000, only Reapers are hurt by the crucible, meaning EDI and the Geth are alright. Confirmed by Jessica Merizan and will more than likely be in Extended Cut.)

The Normandy's fate is interesting to wonder about. There were definitely oddities that imply its fate is not what we expected.(Normandy was already experiencing fires and systems failures while running, a weird hole in the blast of energy opens up behind the Normandy before it passes through, the Normandy is always relatively intact even with the ending that incinerates everything the energy touches.) Its a mystery to unravel that will be answered later.

My ending lasted 30 hours and was everything I was told it would be.

Who exactly are you to tell people that they are wrong to feel what they feel about the game.

Good for you that you can make up stuff and fill plot holes with fantasy logic, but not everyone feels that way about it.

[Luvinn]

I have to agree. I stopped caring in the form of just not wanting to play it anymore. I haven't played it since beating the game, and i just have no desire to. I mean I get the ending, I understand whats going on, I just don't care about the ME universe anymore. The ending as is just does not make any logical sense. And it's sad, because i replayed the first two games numerous times. And I do believe the ending can ruin the experience. Just ask people who rode the Titanic.

What I feel Bioware missed on, is getting people to want to replay from ME1 all the way through again. Aside from getting either Ash or Kaiden, there really isn't anything earth shattering to go back to. Imagine if the rachni actually had a huge impact if you saved the queen. Or saving the council. Imagine having to do everything in a particular way to get a good ending. It would have drastically increased the replay value of the series.

On a side note, I could live with most of the plotholes surrounding the ending, but the EC has a LOT of explaning to do to tell why the Normandy was running away, and why the shockwave blew up the normandy, but not the other ships around Earths orbit.

Modifié par Luvinn, 14 mai 2012 - 09:15 .

[Dusen]

SynheKatze wrote...

The last five minutes did not ruin everything, the whole game was subpar and full of idiocy, the contrived ending was just the icing to the cake.

This is very true, ME3 seemed to ignore most if not all of the improvements and innovations that the last two games developed. The dialogue system was castrated, exploration was non-existent, linear story (at least the last two let us choose what main missions to do and when), only one hub world that we've already been to many times before, a half-baked story (after Rannoch), little to no side-missions ("scan this planet and return to the Citadel" missions are just a sad joke). . . I could go on, but I think we all know what I'm getting at. Of course the last two weren't perfect, but their great stories at least overshadowed the bad parts. I;m glad some people enjoyed it, but for me personally, ME3 was just a lackluster entry and ending to what could have been one of the greatest sci-fi series ever. imo

Modifié par Dusen, 14 mai 2012 - 09:16 .

[HeroofTime55]

 The ending was great.  I'm sorry you didn't get the hollywood ending, but frankly I think that's what makes it a masterpiece.  ME3 doesn't have a happy ending, there is no perfect solution to the Reapers, and that's the goddamn point of the game.  The ambiguity that leaves a hundred "what if's" only adds to this, it opens the game up to the community to theorize what exactly went down, which I absolutely love.

And for the record, the deep impact of your decisions is felt throughout the game, not just at the end.  Not to post spoiers, but a lot of stuff can go down way differently depending on what choices you make.  Do the Geth and Quarians not matter?  What about the Krogan situation?  Why do you need these things to be explicitly re-stated in the closing ten minutes of the game, can't you realize the impact you have on the galaxy throughout the entire game?

There is a lot of ME3 I don't like, but the story is not one of those things.  The story was absolutely epic, inclusive of the ending, and Bioware gets nothing but praise from me.

[Eclipse merc]

HeroofTime55 wrote...

 The ending was great.  I'm sorry you didn't get the hollywood ending, but frankly I think that's what makes it a masterpiece.  ME3 doesn't have a happy ending, there is no perfect solution to the Reapers, and that's the goddamn point of the game.  The ambiguity that leaves a hundred "what if's" only adds to this, it opens the game up to the community to theorize what exactly went down, which I absolutely love.

And for the record, the deep impact of your decisions is felt throughout the game, not just at the end.  Not to post spoiers, but a lot of stuff can go down way differently depending on what choices you make.  Do the Geth and Quarians not matter?  What about the Krogan situation?  Why do you need these things to be explicitly re-stated in the closing ten minutes of the game, can't you realize the impact you have on the galaxy throughout the entire game?

There is a lot of ME3 I don't like, but the story is not one of those things.  The story was absolutely epic, inclusive of the ending, and Bioware gets nothing but praise from me.

Except the part where it was supposed to tie up all the loose ends and give answers to all the questiona?

[dmonorato]

Modifié par dmonorato, 14 mai 2012 - 09:21 .

[crazyrabbits]

HeroofTime55 wrote...

 The ending was great.  I'm sorry you didn't get the hollywood ending, but frankly I think that's what makes it a masterpiece.  ME3 doesn't have a happy ending, there is no perfect solution to the Reapers, and that's the goddamn point of the game.  The ambiguity that leaves a hundred "what if's" only adds to this, it opens the game up to the community to theorize what exactly went down, which I absolutely love.

And for the record, the deep impact of your decisions is felt throughout the game, not just at the end.  Not to post spoiers, but a lot of stuff can go down way differently depending on what choices you make.  Do the Geth and Quarians not matter?  What about the Krogan situation?  Why do you need these things to be explicitly re-stated in the closing ten minutes of the game, can't you realize the impact you have on the galaxy throughout the entire game?

There is a lot of ME3 I don't like, but the story is not one of those things.  The story was absolutely epic, inclusive of the ending, and Bioware gets nothing but praise from me.

Try harder. Your points have been refuted and debunked, ad nauseum.

I agree with the OP. The only thing the sales figures have proven to me is that the "lag effect" of the previous game's hype and the marketing did its job. As far as the critical reaction stands, though, I've never seen a bigger backlash to a game's ending before. It's almost as if BW wanted to "torch the franchise and run", as it were.

There's so much...apathy now, from both the hardcore fanbase as a whole and a growing number of professional outlets. Even BW doesn't seem to be able to comprehend how bad they screwed this up (to the point that every word that comes out of their mouths alienates, obfuscates and confuses people more and more).

Look at this forum - so many longtime posters have gotten sick of the whole debacle and washed their hands of the company and the game.

[Dusen]

HeroofTime55 wrote...

The ending was great. I'm sorry you didn't get the hollywood ending, but frankly I think that's what makes it a masterpiece. ME3 doesn't have a happy ending, there is no perfect solution to the Reapers, and that's the goddamn point of the game.

I don't think anyone was really asking for a "happy Hollywood ending", most people, including myself, just wanted to see that our choices from the first two games and this one actually mattered.

[Shazzie]

HeroofTime55 wrote...

 The ending was great.  I'm sorry you didn't get the hollywood ending, but frankly I think that's what makes it a masterpiece.  ME3 doesn't have a happy ending, there is no perfect solution to the Reapers, and that's the goddamn point of the game.  The ambiguity that leaves a hundred "what if's" only adds to this, it opens the game up to the community to theorize what exactly went down, which I absolutely love.

And for th e record, the deep impact of your decisions is felt throughout the game, not just at the end.  Not to post spoiers, but a lot of stuff can go down way differently depending on what choices you make.  Do the Geth and Quarians not matter?  What about the Krogan situation?  Why do you need these things to be explicitly re-stated in the closing ten minutes of the game, can't you realize the impact you have on the galaxy throughout the entire game?

There is a lot of ME3 I don't like, but the story is not one of those things.  The story was absolutely epic, inclusive of the ending, and Bioware gets nothing but praise from me.

I didn't need a Hollywood and/or happy ending. I could have gone out properly in a blaze of glory, or I could have won the day, both would have been good endings. I could have lost everything, but again- died fighting and holding onto what I'd been fighting for the whole time. Instead I got Starchild (a ridiculous being of which I have absolutely zero reason to believe a word it says), and was thoroughly repulsed.

ALT+F4. I'm done. No reason to finish. No reason to care.

Edit to add: I am glad to have played the game up until that point, even though I still have a lot of issues with how ME3 was handled. But that point, that ending, was the ending of my appreciation. It was just... repulsive, and ended my interest in giving a damn.

Modifié par Shazzie, 14 mai 2012 - 09:28 .

[Kreidian]

 I find it downright sad that people think that a happy or "hollywood" ending would somehow nullify the validity of a game. 

A VIDEO GAME with a Hollywood ending is somehow a bad thing?

Clearly happy hollywood endings are the bane of any franchise and will only devalue it beyond all redemption. After all The Avengers had a classic Hollywood ending, even had great closure and everything, and we all know what a critical failure that turned out to be. I mean, the last thing EA and BioWare would want is to have the number of sales that movie is getting now.

[xsdob]

Didn't star trek and star wars go through the same thing with their bombs?

Give it 2 years and everyone will just be like it's the greatest sci-fi epic of our time, because that's still what star wars and star trek are still regarded as even with all the **** they've been put through.

Unless some new series is put out in 2016 or something, than it's going to get forgotten, but I think it'll be at least deus ex game series level.

Modifié par xsdob, 14 mai 2012 - 09:33 .

[Repearized Miranda]

SynheKatze wrote...

The last five minutes did not ruin everything, the whole game was subpar and full of idiocy, the contrived ending was just the icing to the cake.

Was this your very first playthrough? I only ask because I notice how the general belief is: 99% of the game is fine until the ending; however, given how you said the whole game pales in comparision, I wonder if that's you (and by you I mean most that have the same opinion), putting the ending on top of everything else to make everything else look bad? I see that is what many have done (on subsequent playthroughs)

I'm not disagreeing that a buttload of shortcuts were taken for whatever reason - nor has anyone else; however, just because other may have ignored the fallacies, doesn't mean that they think or know that they don't exist. It just becomes more evident when lookng back.

MLook at how two first two games were awesome upon first play, but flaws were noticed with subsequent ones, but they're leaps and bounds above ME3 although shortcuts may have been taken regarding those games, too!

The feeling you have is not at all invalid. What's odd is if you've noticed right off the bat; however, some would equate that to nostalgia. Not that they wouldn't be right, but they may not be wrong either.

Again, this game had a very rushed feel to it; it only became more evident in certain parts to some people.

[crazyrabbits]

xsdob wrote...

Didn't star trek and star wars go through the same thing with their bombs?

Give it 2 years and everyone will just be like it's the greatest sci-fi epic of our time, because that's still what star wars and star trek are even with all the **** they've been put through.

The original Star Wars trilogy was an immediate hit out of the gate, and never had a theatrical release that bombed. Even Ewok Adventure turned a tidy profit.

Star Trek (as in, the original series) got decent, if not great, ratings out of the gate, but picked up a cult following in the years following its release, with merchandise still being a hot seller all through the 70's (along with fan conventions). Once it hit the movie/TNG/DS9 circuit, it went almost completely steady in terms of profit until the middling releases of Insurrection/Nemesis/Enterprise brought it down. Even now, those latter TNG films are still thought of as the "dark age" of Trek.

Mass Effect 3 doesn't have the luxury of being close to becoming a "cult hit". The ending backlash is bigger than any other release of a game I've seen, and all three games (from what we know) have turned a tidy profit.

[HeroofTime55]

Eclipse merc wrote...

Except the part where it was supposed to tie up all the loose ends and give answers to all the questiona?

I don't know about you, but it answered a lot of my questions.

It also gave me a whole lot of new questions.  But I' glad it did.  It means there is more to discover, there is more to ponder about and think about.  Much like life, it would be dreadfully boring if we knew everything.  Mystery is a good thing.

I would like to know where Bioware ever claimed it would "tie up all the loose ends" and "give answers to all the questions" with emphasis on the word "all."  Please get back to me if you can find such a statement.

crazyrabbits wrote...

Try harder. Your points have been refuted and debunked, ad nauseum.

I agree with the OP. The only thing the sales figures have proven to me is that the "lag effect" of the previous game's hype and the marketing did its job. As far as the critical reaction stands, though, I've never seen a bigger backlash to a game's ending before. It's almost as if BW wanted to "torch the franchise and run", as it were.

There's so much...apathy now, from both the hardcore fanbase as a whole and a growing number of professional outlets. Even BW doesn't seem to be able to comprehend how bad they screwed this up (to the point that every word that comes out of their mouths alienates, obfuscates and confuses people more and more).

Look at this forum - so many longtime posters have gotten sick of the whole debacle and washed their hands of the company and the game.

How does one "refute and debunk" an opinion, I do have to ask.  I would think I am entitled to my own, just as the unwashed masses are entitled to theirs.

Dusen wrote...

I don't think anyone was really asking for a "happy Hollywood ending", most people, including myself, just wanted to see that our choices from the first two games and this one actually mattered.

 

Again, they do.  You have to look at the entire game.  Your choices in the previous titles, along with those in this title, have a profound impact.  Your story can unfold in radically different ways.

What you want is not to have a choice, what you want is for your specific hollywood ending to have been one of those choices.  But the point of the game is to deny that.  There is no perfect solution to the Reaper threat, and whatever you decide, however perfectly you play through your game, there is always going to be a steep price.  You don't live happily ever after with your love interest.  You don't get to keep all your promises.  You don't get everything you want.  The game forcefully denies giving you what you want.  Yes, it's a bit of a pill to swallow, I'd lie if I said the ending didn't rattle me a bit.  But at the end of the day, this is why it's great.  Shepard is a bug fighting against universal forces far his greater.  He shouldn't have even have had as much success as he did.  The game is great because of the way it crushes your spirits.  It is highly emotional and that is what a work of art should be.  The ending moved me in a way no other game in my life ever has.  And I chalk that up as a success.

[Xellith]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

ME3 is epic. Anybody who lets five minutes ruin an entire franchise for them is an extremely petty person.

Have great sex with a beautiful woman.  Wake up the next morning and shes a dude.

Still feel it would be petty to let it ruin your experience?

Modifié par Xellith, 14 mai 2012 - 09:42 .

[HeroofTime55]

Kreidian wrote...

 I find it downright sad that people think that a happy or "hollywood" ending would somehow nullify the validity of a game. 

A VIDEO GAME with a Hollywood ending is somehow a bad thing?

Clearly happy hollywood endings are the bane of any franchise and will only devalue it beyond all redemption. After all The Avengers had a classic Hollywood ending, even had great closure and everything, and we all know what a critical failure that turned out to be. I mean, the last thing EA and BioWare would want is to have the number of sales that movie is getting now.

Never said hollywood endings are necessairily bad.  What I'm saying is that an alternative to the hollywood rainbows-and-sunshine ending is equally.  That everything doesn't -have- to be hollywood.

[Drake-Shepard]

people say 99% of the game was great but the last 1% was awful.

That last 1% was a major theme contradicting itself and storyline plot holes galore.

Does that not ruin half the mass effect story? when you look back and realise there was no overall idea of what was going on?

If i could get my hands on the original script then i could atleast like Mass effect from 1 to half way through 3.
At the moment it only has character development going for it

Modifié par Drake-Shepard, 14 mai 2012 - 09:45 .

[digby69]

Xerxes52 wrote...

Have to agree. After the ending I've pretty much taken a break from the ME universe.

Might get back into it again though, depends on the EC.

same here

[Kalms]

Kinda agree with OP. I'm basically just hanging out, waiting to see if BioWare has gotten their act together.

[crazyrabbits]

HeroofTime55 wrote...

How does one "refute and debunk" an opinion, I do have to ask.  I would think I am entitled to my own, just as the unwashed masses are entitled to theirs.

First? Don't refer to the fanbase as "unwashed masses". Just setting yourself up for more backlash.

Secondly, there have been many topics discussing and refuting the notion that a "happy ending" (or at least a bittersweet ending) is somehow anathema to the game, considering the fact that the prior entries allowed you to earn your happy ending if you prepared/played enough.

HeroofTime55 wrote...

Again, they do.  You have to look at the entire game.  Your choices in the previous titles, along with those in this title, have a profound impact.  Your story can unfold in radically different ways.

Do I have to repeat this again?

Whether or not you saved the Rachni Queen in ME1 doesn't matter. One shows up anyway in Grunt's mission, and plays no part afterwards in the narrative.

Whether or not you completed Arrival/LotSB doesn't matter. Liara is the Shadow Broker in either case, and the Relay blew up.

Whether or not you saved the Council in ME1 doesn't matter. The only thing that changes is a difference of 30 War Asset points.

Whether or not you saved the Collector Base doesn't matter. The corpse still shows up at Cronos Station.

I could go on, but I think you get my point.

HeroofTime55 wrote...

What you want is not to have a choice, what you want is for your specific hollywood ending to have been one of those choices.  But the point of the game is to deny that.  There is no perfect solution to the Reaper threat, and whatever you decide, however perfectly you play through your game, there is always going to be a steep price.  You don't live happily ever after with your love interest.  You don't get to keep all your promises.  You don't get everything you want.  The game forcefully denies giving you what you want.  Yes, it's a bit of a pill to swallow, I'd lie if I said the ending didn't rattle me a bit.  But at the end of the day, this is why it's great.  Shepard is a bug fighting against universal forces far his greater.  He shouldn't have even have had as much success as he did.  The game is great because of the way it crushes your spirits.  It is highly emotional and that is what a work of art should be.  The ending moved me in a way no other game in my life ever has.  And I chalk that up as a success.

It is nowhere close to art. The ending gave us:

- on Earth, a ridiculous new concept that had never been hinted before in the narrative (that heavy weapons are apparently capable of taking out Spider-Reapers)
- a "final battle" that consists of horde mode in single-player, coupled with ridiculous circumstances
- a new character introduced who introduces a totally new conflict and resolves it in 14 lines of dialogue
- a main character who rolls over and lets said new character dictate to him/her what s/he should do
- a villain (Illusive Man) who wanted to sell humanity out for a bit of power, negating his characterization in the previous game
- an ending (Synthesis) that relies on a ridiculous concept in order to work
- the wonky Normandy crash sequence, and crewmembers mysteriously reappearing on the ship

You see what I mean? I would care less if it had a "Hollywood ending" (what a stupid term) or not if it wasn't so poorly written, from both a gameplay and story perspective.