636 réponses à ce sujet

[StElmo]

Kreidian wrote...

 At one point Mass Effect was considered THE Sci-Fi Saga of our generation. People would talk about it with the same level of reverence they once held for Star Wars back when it could do no wrong. 


Back then people poured over every scrap of the franchise. Every book, every comic, everything that had anything to do with Star Wars was rabidly devoured ( and thus paid for ) by the fans.


For a while people were hoping Mass Effect would reach such heights. Myself, along with many loyal fans, were eager to consume every bit of Mass Effect content we could find. I actually used to be excited for the possibility of the next ME comic series, the next book, or the next movie. 


But the ME3 ending changed all that.


Now I receive e-mails from BioWare's newsletter telling me about the next great Mass Effect comic series, I read the tweets talking about all the EXCITING things coming for ME3 DLC. I see all these tantalizing excerpts of things that I once sought with gusto.


And I just don't care.


Who cares about Vega's past before meeting Shepard? He'll just end up dying to Harbinger's lasers if he's lucky, an ultimately worthless sacrifice that allows you to pick the color that screws the galaxy.


Who cares what Tali was up to between ME2 and ME3? She'll likely die of starvation on some random planet for not good reason whatsoever.


You say there's an exciting new Anime coming out? I don't care.
You say there's some awesome work being done on future DLC? I don't care.


Even if you could explain all that stuff away with the EC DLC, none of that matters because in the end you still have to deal with an absolutely horrible ending to the entire story of Mass Effect. Clarifying it won't make it any less horrible, nor will it get people to start caring again.


And this is what your average non-vocal majority will be feeling for the most part. The average fan who never bothered to post here because they just don't care anymore. Because to be brutally honest, the vast non-vocal majority couldn't care less about your artistic integrity. 


These were the people that I used to champion the Mass Effect cause to, the people that I would strive tirelessly to play the game and get hooked by everything that was great about it. Now I can't honestly recommend this game to anyone, for the simple fact that I don't want to put them through that ending.


I'm sure to you this all seems like some "whiney entitled" rant. But in the end this is a fan who at one point represented guaranteed sales, not just of your product directly, but also many of the associated merchandise and content, on top of additional sales from all of the people I would convince to buy the game and DLCs. Not you no longer have those sales to rely on. 
Make of that what you will. I don't really care.

Agreed OP. Apathy has hit me too. If ME3 had been great, I would be lapping up all of that.

[Pyrothol]

Yep. Pretty much I don't care anymore. I've moved on from Bioware and Mass Effect. Only a complete ending rewrite would fix this and that isn't happening.

[laudable11]

BioWare is just another videogame company now.

They used to be speical.

[Homebound]

laudable11 wrote...

BioWare is just another videogame company now.

They used to be speical.

pretty much.

[incinerator950]

I've always considered it Biowares rehash of Kotor.

If BSNers committed suicide over the ending matter, I would more then likely either laugh about it, or post a morally repulsive response of the nature of people here.

[CARL_DF90]

Funny you mention that. Back in the day (as in late 1970s) when the original Battlestar Galactica was cancelled someone committed suicide over its cancellation. I'm thanking god that didn't happen here, although some bouts of depression have taken a few people.

[CARL_DF90]

[removed for double post.]

Modifié par CARL_DF90, 15 mai 2012 - 06:57 .

[incinerator950]

CARL_DF90 wrote...

Funny you mention that. Back in the day (as in late 1970s) when the original Battlestar Galactica was cancelled someone committed suicide over its cancellation. I'm thanking god that didn't happen here, although some bouts of depression have taken a few people.

That sounds as pathetic as sending death threats to an author or Director for killing a character. 

Only reason I don't want to see or hear about it is so people don't get more unneeded publicity in a 1st World drama matter.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

To me, the ending ruined the franchise, but not the experience leading up to ME3's ending.

Bioware can fix it... let's hope that they do. Because ME3 still has one of the worst endings to a game that I've ever seen.

[FlamingBoy]

me3 wasn't that good anyway, that was where the disappointment was for me, i hated the ending but that was just the cherry on top of the disaster that is me3

[arathor_87]

Please don't use the word tragedy or disaster when you're talking about a videogame. Tragedy and disaster is war, death, child abuse in real life. I'm a huge fan of Mass Effect, but it's a freaking VIDEOGAME.

I was dissapointed with the endings, but to use such a strong words as tragedy is wrong. And the triolgy is still epic, the ending is not fantastic, but not that bad either.

Modifié par arathor_87, 15 mai 2012 - 08:49 .

[Krogangreetings]

the forced multiplayer on top of the ending did it for me

I don't care as much as I did and EA: Bioware is no longer on the day 1 purchase list, not saying I'll never buy again but I'll be very cautious about paying full whack again

[Subject M]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

I don't care that you don't care.

ME3 is epic. Anybody who lets five minutes ruin an entire franchise for them is an extremely petty person.

Its not about being petty, its about how memory works and how hard the experience associated with an emotional reaction hits your memory. You remember high and low points of series of experiences. If the low point is strong enough (such as a nonsensical conclusion of a story you have feverishly invested time in to "win" or see it through, ) the series can be ruined.

And for the record, its less interesting to take into consideration the opinions of people who cares nothing about others not caring after being burned by the ending.

Anyway, as for me, good people of the forum, let it be known that the ending did in fact ruin much of my appreciation of the series and I do no longer feel any joy in replaying. (which I usually take great pleasure in doing when it comes to games I like or "love")

As long as the ending have its problems, I have no further interests in buying anything more ME-related.

Modifié par Subject M, 15 mai 2012 - 08:56 .

[Core_Commander]

Kreidian wrote...

Who cares about Vega's past before meeting Shepard? He'll just end up dying to Harbinger's lasers if he's lucky, an ultimately worthless sacrifice that allows you to pick the color that screws the galaxy.

Who cares what Tali was up to between ME2 and ME3? She'll likely die of starvation on some random planet for not good reason whatsoever.

This nonsense again. "Screws the galaxy".

Question: did the Reapers harvest every single sentient being with advanced technology in the galaxy, and then leave to return again in 50 thousand years (the stakes that we were fighting to avoid since ME1)?

Answer: no. So that's a win.

Question 2: Were enormous sacrifices made (what has been foreshadowed from the beginning with people telling you that this fight won't be clean and pretty, which I guess you decided to be a paper tiger, same as the suicide mission)?

Answer: certainly so.

The galaxy lost some Reaper tech (in every ending there's plenty of bits and pieces or actual docile Reapers to reverse-engineer though - galactic technology made strides with just Sovereign debris, and Protheans managed to build their own mass relay with minimal resources... who's to say there won't be salarian-made mass relays in a decade?), but gained freedom. "This fight is way bigger than the humanity", "we'refighting for every living being"... blah blah... and people are upset that a few million dudes may die in the aftermath of a conflict that  already claimed billions. The important thing is that the horror of Reaper extinction is no more, no matter the losses. That's the point of the games. Shepard was more than ready to die for even a shot at Collectors, but "oh no Shepard and my friends died to save all the sentient beings in the galaxy now in the future from the Reapers, once and for all. Unacceptable!".

Sorry it didn't end with Shepard punching the father of all Reapers in the kneecap, causing all evil in the galaxy to evaporate, then withdraw to a cryo chamber for when you need him for Mass Effect 4. You've been told how it'll end pretty much from the very beginning, and still act surprised and hurt.

If anything, Bioware actually having the quad to go through with what has been foreshadowed since Mass Effect 1 proves that EA top doesn't have a deathgrip on them like they seemingly used to for Dragon Age 2, since the "smart" business decision would be to give people the predictable, safe, heroic ending, leaving the world rife with sequel and DLC opportunities.

Modifié par Core_Commander, 15 mai 2012 - 09:02 .

[furryrage59]

arathor_87 wrote...

Please don't use the word tragedy or disaster when you're talking about a videogame. Tragedy and disaster is war, death, child abuse in real life. I'm a huge fan of Mass Effect, but it's a freaking VIDEOGAME.

I was dissapointed with the endings, but to use such a strong words as tragedy is wrong. And the triolgy is still epic, the ending is not fantastic, but not that bad either.

That's your opinion and that's fine but that doesn't make you right.

People can use whatever word they wish. If someone feels very strongly about something and uses it in the correct context, like they did, then it is correct.

[arathor_87]

furryrage59 wrote...

arathor_87 wrote...

Please don't use the word tragedy or disaster when you're talking about a videogame. Tragedy and disaster is war, death, child abuse in real life. I'm a huge fan of Mass Effect, but it's a freaking VIDEOGAME.

I was dissapointed with the endings, but to use such a strong words as tragedy is wrong. And the triolgy is still epic, the ending is not fantastic, but not that bad either.

That's your opinion and that's fine but that doesn't make you right.

People can use whatever word they wish. If someone feels very strongly about something and uses it in the correct context, like they did, then it is correct.

Maybe, but if they think tragedy and disaster is when they dislike a videogame, they really need a reality check. Dislike me if you want, but I think it's disrespectful. People in idustrialized countries misuse those words to much.

Modifié par arathor_87, 15 mai 2012 - 09:04 .

[iamthedave3]

arathor_87 wrote...

furryrage59 wrote...

arathor_87 wrote...

Please don't use the word tragedy or disaster when you're talking about a videogame. Tragedy and disaster is war, death, child abuse in real life. I'm a huge fan of Mass Effect, but it's a freaking VIDEOGAME.

I was dissapointed with the endings, but to use such a strong words as tragedy is wrong. And the triolgy is still epic, the ending is not fantastic, but not that bad either.

That's your opinion and that's fine but that doesn't make you right.

People can use whatever word they wish. If someone feels very strongly about something and uses it in the correct context, like they did, then it is correct.

Maybe, but if they think tragedy and disaster is when they dislike a videogame, they really need a reality check. Dislike me if you want, but I think it's disrespectful. People in idustrialized countries misuse those words to much.

The flaw with the argument you are using is that it neither deals or helps with the emotion it's addressing. Emotions aren't reasonable, and there is almost no malady that anyone can suffer which can't be invalidated by 'someone else is worse off'.

Though I agree people mis-use 'tragedy' a little. But that's largely down to the way language is used more than anything else, and that trickles down often from the papers where, if you read them regularly, you'll notice that there are more tragedies every day than the collected pathos of the human race can handle.

Which is to say half of them aren't tragic at all but papers like to exaggerate.

Some people care very deeply about the Mass Effect universe, and are extremely hurt by how this ending came about. I'm not one of them, I'm just disappointed because I know Bioware can do better. That doesn't mean people are 'silly' or 'childish' or any one of a dozen words people like to taunt them with for being upset over it. Not that you were implying that.

It's not disrespectful, in other words. At worst it's an exaggeration.

[Aggie Punbot]

Kreidian wrote...

[something happens]? I don't care.

Well, now you know how God ™ feels.

[Emerald Rift]

Mass Effect is now "meh" to me, almost finished my second playthrough and I don't get the excitement I got with ME1 and ME2 which had superb endings.

[Oldbones2]

Kreidian wrote...

 At one point Mass Effect was considered THE Sci-Fi Saga of our generation. People would talk about it with the same level of reverence they once held for Star Wars back when it could do no wrong. 


Back then people poured over every scrap of the franchise. Every book, every comic, everything that had anything to do with Star Wars was rabidly devoured ( and thus paid for ) by the fans.


For a while people were hoping Mass Effect would reach such heights. Myself, along with many loyal fans, were eager to consume every bit of Mass Effect content we could find. I actually used to be excited for the possibility of the next ME comic series, the next book, or the next movie. 


But the ME3 ending changed all that.


Now I receive e-mails from BioWare's newsletter telling me about the next great Mass Effect comic series, I read the tweets talking about all the EXCITING things coming for ME3 DLC. I see all these tantalizing excerpts of things that I once sought with gusto.


And I just don't care.


Who cares about Vega's past before meeting Shepard? He'll just end up dying to Harbinger's lasers if he's lucky, an ultimately worthless sacrifice that allows you to pick the color that screws the galaxy.


Who cares what Tali was up to between ME2 and ME3? She'll likely die of starvation on some random planet for not good reason whatsoever.


You say there's an exciting new Anime coming out? I don't care.
You say there's some awesome work being done on future DLC? I don't care.


Even if you could explain all that stuff away with the EC DLC, none of that matters because in the end you still have to deal with an absolutely horrible ending to the entire story of Mass Effect. Clarifying it won't make it any less horrible, nor will it get people to start caring again.


And this is what your average non-vocal majority will be feeling for the most part. The average fan who never bothered to post here because they just don't care anymore. Because to be brutally honest, the vast non-vocal majority couldn't care less about your artistic integrity. 


These were the people that I used to champion the Mass Effect cause to, the people that I would strive tirelessly to play the game and get hooked by everything that was great about it. Now I can't honestly recommend this game to anyone, for the simple fact that I don't want to put them through that ending.


I'm sure to you this all seems like some "whiney entitled" rant. But in the end this is a fan who at one point represented guaranteed sales, not just of your product directly, but also many of the associated merchandise and content, on top of additional sales from all of the people I would convince to buy the game and DLCs. Not you no longer have those sales to rely on. 
Make of that what you will. I don't really care.

This man speaks the sad truth.


Haters gonna hate, but for so many of us, Mass Effect's ending broke a very real bond, and maybe it could be repaired (though it would take time and great effort), but it doesn't seem like BW is interested in building bridges, just selling DLC.


That's what the EC is really all about, making the ending just satisfying enough that we'll shell out ten bucks for Omega, and if thats good (and I'm sure it will be) we'll shell out ten bucks for the next one.


Maybe it will work and BW will still sell LOTS of DLC, maybe it won't, but nothing Bioware is doing now is restoring my love for the series or my faith in the company.

Sure I don't come to post at BSN as much.  But thats not because, I ultimately changed opinion.  I still feel very strongly that the ending is crap and BW treated its customers poorly.

Like OP says I just don't care anymore.

I guess thats what Bioware wants in a customer now.

[crazyrabbits]

HeroofTime55 wrote...

There are no "objectively" good or bad stories or elements of a story or anything.  You cite as "evidence" the opinions of known critics.  Allow me to highlight the key word of that argument:  Opinions.  In other words, subjective statements.

I don't think you understand the difference between objective and subjective.

There are certain elements that are "trends" across numerous works all throughout history. The deus ex machina, for instance - an element is introduced at the last moment to resolve a plot when no natural end is in sight. That is an unbiased statement that has roots in factual evidence. The reaction to that element may be subjective, but it's still the majority opinion (which I use as supporting evidence),. I just had a conversation about this a couple weeks back with someone who didn't understand the difference either.

Again, you're parroting the same party line that all the "pro-enders" have done. Let's not forget that your first post in this thread had a veiled putdown of the entire player base that didn't like the ending (which you then subsequently tried to ignore when someone called you on it). You've failed to answer any of the questions I've raised, you keep trotting out lame comebacks and insults, you attempt to deflect the discussion when you don't know what you're talking about...

You're a troll. A persistent troll, but a troll nonetheless. Try harder, boy.

Modifié par crazyrabbits, 15 mai 2012 - 11:11 .

[DateMasamunyan]

Mass Effect 3 ending made me disappointed in BioWare overall... If the extended cut didn't satisfy me, next time they published a new superb game I think I will pass. Why bother wasting your time and money for a game that will leave you with a dissapointed feeling? It's like being a stupid girl dating the same jerk who gives pleasure for a short time but then hurt and dissapoint in the end...over and over

[crazyrabbits]

Core_Commander wrote...

This nonsense again. "Screws the galaxy".

You may have issue with the way that statement is worded, but given the circumstances the game places the characters in at the end, it's logical to assume that the game does, indeed, "screw the galaxy". The concept of the "ME Universe" is more or less eradicated at the end of the game.

Core_Commander wrote...

Question: did the Reapers harvest every single sentient being with advanced technology in the galaxy, and then leave to return again in 50 thousand years (the stakes that we were fighting to avoid since ME1)?

Answer: no. So that's a win.

Question 2: Were enormous sacrifices made (what has been foreshadowed from the beginning with people telling you that this fight won't be clean and pretty, which I guess you decided to be a paper tiger, same as the suicide mission)?

Answer: certainly so.

This is essentially true.

Core_Commander wrote...

The galaxy lost some Reaper tech (in every ending there's plenty of bits and pieces or actual docile Reapers to reverse-engineer though - galactic technology made strides with just Sovereign debris, and Protheans managed to build their own mass relay with minimal resources... who's to say there won't be salarian-made mass relays in a decade?), but gained freedom. "This fight is way bigger than the humanity", "we'refighting for every living being"... blah blah... and people are upset that a few million dudes may die in the aftermath of a conflict that  already claimed billions. The important thing is that the horror of Reaper extinction is no more, no matter the losses. That's the point of the games. Shepard was more than ready to die for even a shot at Collectors, but "oh no Shepard and my friends died to save all the sentient beings in the galaxy now in the future from the Reapers, once and for all. Unacceptable!".

Sorry it didn't end with Shepard punching the father of all Reapers in the kneecap, causing all evil in the galaxy to evaporate, then withdraw to a cryo chamber for when you need him for Mass Effect 4. You've been told how it'll end pretty much from the very beginning, and still act surprised and hurt.

If anything, Bioware actually having the quad to go through with what has been foreshadowed since Mass Effect 1 proves that EA top doesn't have a deathgrip on them like they seemingly used to for Dragon Age 2, since the "smart" business decision would be to give people the predictable, safe, heroic ending, leaving the world rife with sequel and DLC opportunities.

You're not considering the lore or the circumstances set by the plot, though.

1) It has been explained several times in the trilogy that no one in the galaxy knows how to construct or build a Mass Relay. The Asari might know (as per the dialogue from Liara), but they're either unwilling or lack the drive to get them rebuilt - I believe it was said that they had a "needle in a haystack" chance of figuring it out. In the absence of any other information, it's a logical assumption that galactic trade and travel as a whole, at least in the following century, is effectively non-existent. Any "official" explanation must, by its nature, be either a retcon or an a**pull. Anything else is just fanwanking.

2) There is never anything wrong with an "uplifting" or "heroic" ending. Pro-enders usually use that as an excuse to tell people that they can't be happy and get closure. The series has always emphasized that you have multiple routes to complete your quest - you can either get through with minimal loss of life or lose everyone and everything to the enemy. The ending of ME3, in the eyes of many, is a betrayal of the flexibility the previous games setup. It doesn't help that the poor writing and inconsistency of the final third of the game (from a writing and gameplay perspective) nullifies any sense that beating the Reapers meant anything.

3) The game ends in what TVTropes likes to refer to as an "esoteric happy ending". Sure, you beat the Reapers, but the tech singularity is still out there, and is still apparently going to wipe out the galaxy one day (if the Reapers are to be believed). The original ending - that is, choose to face said singularity as a unified galaxy and hope for the best, or allow the Reapers to assimilate humanity and prove the end justifies the means - would have been a damn sight better than a character we've never seen before telling us information we have no reason to believe, while our player avatar rolls over and becomes ineffectual and causes a chain reaction that leaves the galaxy in no man's land. 

4) Your last point is moot - they're still planning DLC, comic series, animated prequels and more. The ending of the game effectively shot any sense of interest in those projects in the foot.

5) There's a difference between "stopping the enemy, at any cost" (a notion that, even in ME2, the player character could say "I'm not throwing my life away - I'm going to win") and making the character sacrifice him/herself when they barely know what the consequences of their actions are, nor why they should take said course of action - especially one being proposed by their enemy. That's senseless sacrifice.

Modifié par crazyrabbits, 15 mai 2012 - 11:28 .