181 réponses à ce sujet

[hihey54]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

hihey54 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

hihey54 wrote...

The Viper does not need a Buff. It is good for bronze-silver.
If they buff its damage just slightly, there will be no point in having the Valiant.
Actually, with a Sniper Amp III and a Viper X, you'll have as much damage potential as a regular Valiant.

Viper:  334 DPS.
Sniper Amp 3:  30% bonus, IIRC.

Valiant:  530-660 DPS, super fast reload.
Do the math.

I've just done the math.

Viper X base damage: 334
Add the cloak bonus (*1.9)=634.6
Add the EB V bonus (*1.25)=793.25
Add the headshot bonus (*2.5)=1983.25

So, without the amp, you'll one-shot Assault Troopers, Guardians, Husks and Geth Troopers (same as Valiant/BW), and you will 2-shots (because of the shields)  Nemesis, Centurions and Rocket Troopers (again, same as Valiant/BW).
So, in order to kill the remaining human-size enemies (Phantoms, Marauders, Cannibals, Hunters, Pyros), you'll need the damage bonus provided with the Sniper Rifle Amp III (you'll need just SR amp II if you are not facing the Geth, and I if you are not facing Cerberus).

Your math is wrong.  The Viper's base damage is 286.7  Its DPS is about 334.  Also I don't know how much health/shields you think Centurions, Marauders, Hunters, and Pyros have... nevermind the defenses of Phantoms.

Oh, you are right.
However, according to this: docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc
With a total damage per shot of 2298 points (with an SR amp III) you'll do great against any regular enemy but Phantoms and Pyros. This, however, could be fixed with the new targeting VI (remember that a targeting VI III doubles the damage bonus provided with a headshot).

[hihey54]

datako12 wrote...

hihey54 wrote...

I've just done the math.

Viper X base damage: 334
Add the cloak bonus (*1.9)=634.6
Add the EB V bonus (*1.25)=793.25
Add the headshot bonus (*2.5)=1983.25

So, without the amp, you'll one-shot Assault Troopers, Guardians, Husks and Geth Troopers (same as Valiant/BW), and you will 2-shots (because of the shields)  Nemesis, Centurions and Rocket Troopers (again, same as Valiant/BW).
So, in order to kill the remaining human-size enemies (Phantoms, Marauders, Cannibals, Hunters, Pyros), you'll need the damage bonus provided with the Sniper Rifle Amp III (you'll need just SR amp II if you are not facing the Geth, and I if you are not facing Cerberus).

or instead of sniper rifle amp III, you could just take a couple weapon damage ranks in your passive skill

Right! I didn't think about that.
That's why I was able to 2-shot Phantoms with a Viper X and SR amp III when I started playing gold with my beloved Quarian Infiltrator
@GodlessPaladin, you don't even need the Targeting VI, then.

[GodlessPaladin]

But Atlasses will laugh at you. Sooo... what's the point of an infiltrator that gets laughed at by Atlasses?

And seriously, it does less damage per shot than a Carnifex, for more weight. 

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 15 mai 2012 - 01:38 .

[Star fury]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The Disciple:  This gun could use either slightly more damage or a more reliable stagger.  As is it's like a Carnifex that trades pinpoint accuracy for occasional staggers.  Meh.

A lot more damage, a lot. Now you kill assault trooper with three or four shots. Pathetic. Stagger is reliable and handy though. As with Carnifex it's miles better. My friends and I used it for challenge and they hate Disciple ever since.

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The
Saber:  A bit higher ROF couldn't hurt.  Making it shoot as fast as the
Paladin (or even slightly faster) would help make it worth its weight.

Too heavy, needs to reduce "encumbrance" or how Bio call it. Although human soldier with AR and CS+equipment can be a killing machine. Need to check it more with turian soldier.

Modifié par Star fury, 15 mai 2012 - 01:37 .

[snackrat]

Yeah, the Discipline is a little meh DPS-wise, but I like it because it is so light. I like to use it as a support weapon for a caster class that's power-dependant.

[Shotokanguy]

More and more, I feel like this game's abundance of weapons is misleading.

There's a lot of overlap not just between weapons in the same class. The Saber is a lot like a sniper rifle, the Katana and Disciple are basically the same weapon except for weight, and all of the problems listed in this topic show that their attempts to make everything fall into a certain role lead to some weapons being useless.

If you ask me, every weapon should have had a unique attribute. Like the Disciple's staggering. Make the Shuriken increase your melee attack speed. The Claymore can knock down enemies. The Avenger has a built in scope. The Revenant does 5% more damage with headshots. Stuff like that, I dunno.

[hihey54]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

But Atlasses will laugh at you. Sooo... what's the point of an infiltrator that gets laughed at by Atlasses?

And seriously, it does less damage per shot than a Carnifex, for more weight. 

Yeah, but it comes with a scope. Furthermore, the Carnifex does not benefits of the Sniper Rifle damage upgrade 6 of Tactical Cloak (which I didn't even take into account before!).

Here's the revised math, however:

Viper X base damage: 286.7
With EB V (*1.25): 358,375
With Tactical Cloak Damage Bonus (*1.9): 680.91
With Tactical Cloak Sniper Rifle Damage Bonus (*1.4)= 953.28
With the Passive Skill (*1.225)=1167.76
With the Headshot (*2.5) AND the Headhost Bonus damage of the Passive skill 5 (+20%) [total: *2.7]=3152,96!

So yes, you don't even need consumables then. I was still using them, though.

About the "Atlases laughs at you" thing... there is nothing much you can do about that

In conclusion: the Viper equipped on an Infiltrator, is a good weapon even on gold. However, it does not perform so well on other classes (on gold), but neither does the Valiant, which, without equipments, still requires 2 headshots to kill any regular enemy.

Modifié par hihey54, 15 mai 2012 - 01:53 .

[Felhand]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

The Geth Pulse Rifle:  Only really worth anything on a Geth Engineer using lots of consumable equipment, and even then one has to compare to the likes of the geth Plasma Shotgun grabbing that Geth Weapon Bonus.

The Disciple:  This gun could use either a bit more damage or a more reliable stagger.  As is it's like a Carnifex that trades pinpoint accuracy and range for occasional staggers.  Meh.

The Saber:  A bit higher ROF couldn't hurt.  Making it shoot as fast as the Paladin (or even slightly faster) would help make it worth its weight.

I aggreed for the most part except for some points regarding these three:

GPS-  while really only good on a geth engineer, it dosnt need consumables to do some nasty punishment provided you have the opportunity to unload on a target or can focus on there weak points, its no geth plasma shotty but easily holds its own on a dmg/geth wep dmg specced GE.

Disciple - Its lack of damage overall compared to its relatively small shot per thermal clip count is annoying, its ultralight and 'fairly' reliable stagger makes it a great short weapon to supliment a power reliant class/build that comes in handy to bring armor piercing options to many biotic classes while still remaining as close to 200% power cooldown as possible. Makes a good partner for the geth SMG if you have ultralight materials for the SMG.

Saber: this gun is NASTY , I throw it on my asari justicar and destroy everything quickly. If anything I would want more base ammo on it, eight shots is more then enough ammo to murder all but the toughest of enemies. Its not terribly distinguishable from some sniper rifles, but for builds that prefer assault rifles (justicar, turians and such) its a nice way to take advantage of the weight reduction while bringing a hard hitting long range rifle to the field.

[Apl_Juice]

Everyone needs to realize that just because they do well with X weapon does not make that weapon good.

If you're going to offer counterpoints to the OP, at least argue with statistics and math over "I personally like this gun". Coming in and saying "I wreck gold with my Crusader" isn't adding anything.

As far as my own opinion goes, Pistols and SMGs should be light weight and less effective overall. Only N7/Ultra-Rare Pistols/SMGs should be better than SOME ARs/Sniper Rifles. Its silly that the most overall effective weapon (Carnifex/Paladin) outshine pretty much EVERYTHING else and can be carried with a 200% cooldown. And for god's sake, give sustained DPS SOMETHING over burst damage.

Modifié par Apl_J, 15 mai 2012 - 02:30 .

[MetalHeadDev]

SweetWilly013 wrote...

the eagle

THE EAGLE

BUFF IT BIOWARE!

+1. This gun should be devastating. It sucks.

[defleshing]

yep reconfirms why i never feel the need to stray from a carnifex claymore or gps. seems like alot of weapons were almost designed to be used in bronze.

[Draining Dragon]

I take it the crusader is only for those who are good snipers to start with?

[Felhand]

Apl_J wrote...

Everyone needs to realize that just because they do well with X weapon does not make that weapon good.

If you're going to offer counterpoints to the OP, at least argue with statistics and math over "I personally like this gun". Coming in and saying "I wreck gold with my Crusader" isn't adding anything.

Numbers are worthless if the weapon dosnt fit ya right, a few weapons look like monsters on paper but in practice are large paperweights (crusader) but your play style, class and spec can also effect how a weapon performs. (as well as difficulty, enemy, lag, blah blah blah)

If you go buffing stuff all willy nilly based on some numbers and your own experience though youll end up shelfing other weapons in the process.  But if you want to turn me into a god you go right on ahead and buff the saber right on up, hey while your at it take a gander at my Valiant it could use some built in armor pierceing

[Elecbender]

Draining Dragon wrote...

I take it the crusader is only for those who are good snipers to start with?

Although it has legendary accuracy it has a vicious kick with each shot so if you miss in a critical situation you're dead.

You know, it says in the description it rewards careful aiming.  Even so, I don't feel I'm being "rewarded" enough.  That being said it does not deserve to be on that list of shame.

[CHAw]

Draining Dragon wrote...

I take it the crusader is only for those who are good snipers to start with?

I would say so, yes. Although it is dead accurate, you can't put a scope on it, so you need to be comfortable with lining up headshots with the normal zoom (or without zooming at all). This requires that you either have the precision to do so at range, or the reflexes to do it at close quarters.

At the same time, the Crusader's weight hurts your cooldowns so badly that it forces you to be almost completely reliant on the gun to get you out of a tight spot. Which can be a problem if you get outflanked by a Phantom and are unable to line up a shot.

[nuculerman]

Better not buff the eviscerator without also buffing the wraith. Eviscerator needs 10% more damage. Wraith needs 100% more damage, a faster reload, and lighter weight. Also every smg needs a buff... Ulm actually working.

Really hoping for a hurricane 2 or valiant tomorrow night. If I get an eagle I'll rage vanguard silver with it.

[NubXL]

All assault rifles.

[GodlessPaladin]

NubXL wrote...

All assault rifles.

Yeah, a lot of those got onto "dishonorable mentions" on page 3.

[Drummernate]

The Viper is actually a BEAST on Bronze and Silver, it puts all the other snipers to shame when it comes to killing infantry.

Judging a weapon based on Gold alone would make all the guns extremely overpowered on Silver and Bronze.

People would probably stop playing Gold entirely and just play Silver if their guns could one shot everything and have 6 rounds per mag etc.

[peddroelm]

Ashen Earth wrote...

The sniper rifles take a damage nerf when fired from the hip.

Well, all of them except for the Raptor anyway.

This keeps poping up .. what is the source on this ?!... I did test the Raptor ..it does less damage (*0.85) when fired without scope ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 15 mai 2012 - 04:02 .

[peddroelm]

hihey54 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

But Atlasses will laugh at you. Sooo... what's the point of an infiltrator that gets laughed at by Atlasses?

And seriously, it does less damage per shot than a Carnifex, for more weight. 

Yeah, but it comes with a scope. Furthermore, the Carnifex does not benefits of the Sniper Rifle damage upgrade 6 of Tactical Cloak (which I didn't even take into account before!).

Here's the revised math, however:

Viper X base damage: 286.7
With EB V (*1.25): 358,375
With Tactical Cloak Damage Bonus (*1.9): 680.91
With Tactical Cloak Sniper Rifle Damage Bonus (*1.4)= 953.28
With the Passive Skill (*1.225)=1167.76
With the Headshot (*2.5) AND the Headhost Bonus damage of the Passive skill 5 (+20%) [total: *2.7]=3152,96!

So yes, you don't even need consumables then. I was still using them, though.

About the "Atlases laughs at you" thing... there is nothing much you can do about that

In conclusion: the Viper equipped on an Infiltrator, is a good weapon even on gold. However, it does not perform so well on other classes (on gold), but neither does the Valiant, which, without equipments, still requires 2 headshots to kill any regular enemy.

NO ...that's NOT how you calculate sniper rifle damage ...link on how the sniper rifle damage is calculated

[Impulse and Compulse]

Why do the N7 weapons suck so bad.....

[Drummernate]

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

Why do the N7 weapons suck so bad.....

They do not...

[DoubleHell]

They might nerf all the other pistols to make the eagle look good

[Variasaber]

Shame about the Phaeston's inadequate damage, because the thing handles beautifully and is really everything an assault rifle should be except for that low damage.

If OP's DPS calculations are right, I find it interesting that the Hurricane's DPS is higher than the Mattock. That's worth noting, I'll keep that in mind...

Karsciyin wrote...

Yeah, the Discipline is a little meh
DPS-wise, but I like it because it is so light. I like to use it as a
support weapon for a caster class that's power-dependant.

This. While it doesn't do much for the heavy shotgun wielders who normally carry the Claymore or GPS, it does have its uses as a lightweight weapon.
You'll notice that particularly light weapons don't do much damage, and heavier ones usually do    (keyword "usually")

Modifié par Variasaber, 15 mai 2012 - 04:24 .