73 réponses à ce sujet

[anotherunoriginalname]

so far i have said no to everyone, and the game goes on and assumes that i said sure i'll do the quests.  i still get crafting ingredients, i just dont get the money from solivitius.  ive tried to skip the stupid useless quests and now the game wont let me progress to the deep roads.

[partydotcom]

I wouldn't know. I never say no to XP!

[Aleya]

Nope. You can just not do side quests, but the problem with DA2 is that side quests leading up to major quests aren't marked as such. So there are a few that you really do have to complete.

[thats1evildude]

Main quests must be completed. You can find those under "Main Quests" in your journal.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 22 mai 2012 - 07:29 .

[SiIencE]

What it comes down to, is that no matter what you do you have to:)
Even if you outright refuse to do some companion quests they still appear in your log.

[Tommyspa]

Main and Secondary you have to do. The closet thing to no with some of those are whether or not accept/miss certain companions like Fenris or Isabela. You can skip companion quests at your leisure. Just because it stays in your log doesn't mean you have to do it, so your no can mean no. Unless you are OCD, in which case that isn't really the games problem, lol.

[robertthebard]

anotherunoriginalname wrote...

so far i have said no to everyone, and the game goes on and assumes that i said sure i'll do the quests.  i still get crafting ingredients, i just dont get the money from solivitius.  ive tried to skip the stupid useless quests and now the game wont let me progress to the deep roads.

Yeah, it's kinda pesky that it requires you to raise that 50 sovereigns, and needed maps, and it won't let you go just because you didn't want to.

Modifié par robertthebard, 23 mai 2012 - 01:51 .

[thats1evildude]

Tommyspa wrote...

Main and Secondary you have to do.

I'm pretty sure you can skip Secondary quests.

[Sylvius the Mad]

thats1evildude wrote...

Main quests must be completed. You can find those under "Main Quests" in your journal.

Though often their designation as a Main Quest is the only indication you have that they might be important.  Blackpowder Promise, for example, appears (at the time it is given) to have no connection to the rest of the game at all, but it's a Main Quest, so the player is stuck doing it even if Hawke said no.

[thats1evildude]

Blackpowder Promise — along with Shepherding Wolves, Wayward Son, Act of Mercy and Enemies Among Us — all appear first in your quest log as rumours, Sylvius. Given that these are the ONLY quests to do so, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out they may be of importance.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 23 mai 2012 - 07:19 .

[SiIencE]

The thing is that if you decide to do them or not it still happens, so the game could be on autopilot.
Also no matter how you try to resolve things it doesn't matter the outcome is still the same.
So yes or no are nonexistent this doesn't go for all quests off course but some rather 'large' things happen with or without your help (like not helping Anders to get the bomb material/distract the cleric),

[Sylvius the Mad]

thats1evildude wrote...

Blackpowder Promise — along with Shepherding Wolves, Wayward Son, Act of Mercy and Enemies Among Us — all appear first in your quest log as rumours, Sylvius. Given that these are the ONLY quests to do so, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out they may be of importance.

That's metagame analysis, evildude.  The structure of the journal entries has nothing to do with the character's motivation.

I'm not saying the game confuses me.  I'm saying the events don't make any sense within Hawke's life.

[thats1evildude]

Hawke needs to raise money. Strangers offer him money in exchange for completing jobs. How does that not make sense?

[Sylvius the Mad]

You can raise enough money without doing Blackpowder Promise.

[thats1evildude]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

You can raise enough money without doing Blackpowder Promise.

Completing Blackpowder Promise is necessary to unlock Shepherding Wolves, and together those quests net about 12-14 sovereigns. Had your Hawke raised enough money to fund the expedition when Javaris offered you a job? If not, I wouldn't toss around that metagaming label so lightly. People who live in glass houses, you know.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 24 mai 2012 - 12:04 .

[maxernst]

thats1evildude wrote...

Hawke needs to raise money. Strangers offer him money in exchange for completing jobs. How does that not make sense?

By that logic, ALL the quests where there's a financial incentive should be required quests.  It's quite easy to amass over 80 gold before going on the Deep Roads expedition, so getting 12-14 over 50 is not a problem..  I don't recall when i was offered Blackpowder Promise in either playthrough, but I sure as hell had well over 50 by the time of Shepherding Wolves.  In my first playthrough, I actually went to Bartrand to go on the Deep Roads Expedition before it, and was quite annoyed that I was forced to delay a lucrative expediction because...because I had heard a rumor that there was a chantry sister flashing gold in Lowtown?.  And don't even et me started on Offered and Lost.

And just because you're trying to raise money, it doesn't mean that you would automatically accept all quests willy-nilly.  If you think it's likely to get you killed, if you don't trust the quest-giver and think he might renege on the deal, if you find the offer distasteful and think you can get the money in other ways, or you see better opportunities elsewhere, then, no, it doesn't make sense to take the quest. 

Modifié par maxernst, 24 mai 2012 - 01:51 .

[brushyourteeth]

You can always hit up Dougal for some cash. The result is actually pretty satisfying.

[thats1evildude]

maxernst wrote...

By that logic, ALL the quests where there's a financial incentive should be required quests.

That's not really the point I was making.

It is possible to get all the gold you need before meeting Javaris, but it's immensely difficult. It basically means finishing about two-thirds of all the quests in Act 1 and not spending a cent on equipment before embarking on The Long Way Home. Once that's done, you cannot leave the city again without bumping into Javaris, and that means not completing Wayward Son or doing lucrative side quests like The Unbidden Rescue or Herbalist's Tasks.

Likewise, it's entirely possible to get the money you need without finishing all the main quests. Hell, I did it, and then I blew the surplus on equipment. I never claimed the system was infallible.

The main quests are necessary, though, to introduce NPCs and story hooks for later on. As well, if you didn't finish Enemies Among Us or Shepherding Wolves, then the story of DA2 would be quite different, as Tarohne would inflict irrevocable harm on the templar order and Petrice would likely launch her war with the qunari three years earlier. Both scenarios would be disastrous for Kirkwall.

brushyourteeth wrote...

You can always hit up Dougal for some cash. The result is actually pretty satisfying.

Sure, but he only makes the offer once all the Main Quests are done.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 24 mai 2012 - 04:59 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

My last play of DA2 I said no to as many quests as possible, only accepting them if there was no dialogue option to refuse. Long and the short is you *can* usually say no to just about everything, but you're still forced to do most of them, not always with convincing reasons as to why.

Naturally the game will require you to do certain quests to set the stage for later, but DA2 stumbles a few times in making sure players complete the prerequisites, and in making those prerequisites seem relevant to Hawke's overarching plot. After all, once you've gotten enough money to enter the Deep Roads, earning coin ceases to be the primary goal.

Quests that feel like sidequests in Act I and you think safe to ignore, like Isabela's opening quest, can end up stalling the entire game because there's absolutely no logical in-game reason why not helping her should prevent the Deep Roads expedition, and in cases like hers there's no quest log warning as to what you should do or where you should go if the plot grinds to a halt, unlike with Flemeth's amulet.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 24 mai 2012 - 07:52 .

[Firky]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
Quests that feel like sidequests in Act I and you think safe to ignore, like Isabela's opening quest, can end up stalling the entire game because there's absolutely no logical in-game reason why not helping her should prevent the Deep Roads expedition, and in cases like hers there's no quest log warning as to what you should do or where you should go if the plot grinds to a halt, unlike with Flemeth's amulet.

Is that the quest with Hayder or whatever his name is? You can't progress without it? I don't recall that, but probably because I always did it.

Also, quest failure as a mechanic ftw.

[SuicidalBaby]

lol at saying no.

[brushyourteeth]

I guess I'm trying to understand why anyone would want to play the game without playing the game. You have a minimum of quests you're actually required to complete in order to shuffle the story along to its conclusion. Desiring player agency for player agency's sake is fine, but you did pay for the game - up to a certain point don't you actually want to play it?

(trying to imagine a hero that sits around at the Hanged Man while the rest of the world moves on without him)

[Sylvius the Mad]

thats1evildude wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

You can raise enough money without doing Blackpowder Promise.

Completing Blackpowder Promise is necessary to unlock Shepherding Wolves, and together those quests net about 12-14 sovereigns. Had your Hawke raised enough money to fund the expedition when Javaris offered you a job? If not, I wouldn't toss around that metagaming label so lightly. People who live in glass houses, you know.

I met Javaris fairly early.  And I turned him down, because my Hawke didn't care about his little problem.

My Hawke hadn't even agreed, at that point, to go on Bartrand's expedition.  I hadn't spoken to Bartrand again since meeting Varric.

DA2 assumes the player wants to complete the main quests simply because they are main quests, but that's not a good enough reason.

thats1evildude wrote...

The main quests are necessary, though, to introduce NPCs and story hooks for later on.

And that's not just a metagame justification, but a retroactive metagame justification.

From Hawke's point of view,  at the time he is offered those quests, he doesn't know what the outcomes will be.  Why would he complete these quests?

It doesn't matter why the player would complete the quests.  It matters why the PC would complete the quests.

[Sylvius the Mad]

brushyourteeth wrote...

I guess I'm trying to understand why anyone would want to play the game without playing the game. You have a minimum of quests you're actually required to complete in order to shuffle the story along to its conclusion.

I'm not playing a game at all.  I'm playing a character.  And my character isn't aware that he's in a game.  Each decision he makes needs to make sense on its own, and many of DA2's quests do not.

[thats1evildude]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

My Hawke hadn't even agreed, at that point, to go on Bartrand's expedition.  I hadn't spoken to Bartrand again since meeting Varric.

Jesus ****ing Christ. I'm half-tempted to ask you exactly what your Hawke was up to in Act 1 since the motivation for going on the expedition is laid out at the start, but I know the answer will only confound and infuriate me. Why do you even play RPGs? You'd be much happier playing out your weird little fantasies with action figures. At least then you'd get absolute control over their dialogue and motivations.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 24 mai 2012 - 05:26 .