56 réponses à ce sujet

[Elizabeth Sterling]

Overwhelm - what can I say about it?

I love Dragon Age but this particular move is starting to ruin my fun. Can anyone tell me who decided it was a good idea to have 30XP creatures have a move that could rip down a 14th level warrior if they caught them at 2/3rds health? 6 Wolves are a bigger threat to my party than 4 Arcane horrors and that's just not right. Isn't it enough that you're flattening a character *and* doing damage without making it a move that has a 66% chance of being an insta-kill? This move needs to do far less damage.

Actually, if there was even a way of interrupting it that'd be nice, say, if a creature is attacked by another whilst using overwhelm it stops in its tracks or takes huge backstab damage as it logically should. Nope, not a chance of it, the overwhelm move still works even when the creature carrying it out is stunned. Seriously, if that's not broken I don't know what is.

Stuns -

Don't you think certain enemies naming no wyrms depend far too much on stun and knock-down tactics? I'm all for a challenge but it's not fun gameplay when you have to soak big damage and being tossed around like a ragdoll for 45 seconds before you can even land a blow. If they used these moves less and even if they compensated for it by taking more to kill it'd be another story but damn.

Oh, and pinning shot can eat me, it's just far too easy to do and results in much of what makes things like the Leliana plot ambush such a nightmare.

Blasts -

Minor complaint here, the whole 'mages are overpowered' thing has been covered well enough but I would also like to add that mages are clearly retarded. Having a mage not in your party try to help you is usually more of a threat to you than it is to your enemy. The AI is quite content to blast away at the enemy with AoE spells from a distance even if my team is in there trying to kill the creature. That's right, my mage allies are blowing me up.

One last gripe -

I'm not up for getting in to a debate about Morigan, it's a matter of preference and I just don't like having her around but stop trying to make us use her. Just stop it. If you want us to create a character and play them as we see fit make it so other combatants actually stand a chance against things like revenants before level 15 on normal difficulty.

Love the game but, unsurprisingly with new mechanics there are some serious balance issues.

Modifié par Elizabeth Sterling, 09 décembre 2009 - 04:00 .

[Jsmith0730]

It is kind of annoying that there are some moves that are insta-death (the Ogre grab, for example). You CAN break out of it, but 9 times out of 10 as soon as my guy gets picked up I hit F9. Quicker to just start the fight over.

Modifié par Jsmith0730, 09 décembre 2009 - 03:59 .

[Derrek Cousland]

You can stop the overwhelm with shield bash. And you can simply alter the tactics for your mages, or control them yourself.

Modifié par Derrek Cousland, 09 décembre 2009 - 04:01 .

[Elizabeth Sterling]

I've not witnessed that working myself, (especially considering even stunning a creature doesn't stop them using overwhelm) and even if that is the case that depends on you having shield bash available. It may be you're waiting for it to recharge, it may be that you don't have someone with a shield, it may be that the guy with shieldbash is the guy being ripped to shreds.

Can anyone tell me how stabbing a wolf/werewolf in the spine or giving them a concussion isn't a valid tactic for getting them off of the top of someone?

Modifié par Elizabeth Sterling, 09 décembre 2009 - 04:03 .

[Loc'n'lol]

Elizabeth Sterling wrote...

6 Wolves are a bigger threat to my party than 4 Arcane horrors

I *seriously* doubt that.
Crushing prison x4 + random mix of winter's grasp, cone of cold, whatever while you can't react = gg.

That being said, yes overwhelm is stupid. It's just like a melee crushing prison, but worse : not only does it totally disable you for the duration of the move (that part is fine), it also does insane damage (=not fun, especially since you can't heal yourself during that time).
The ogre grab I find far less dangerous actually, because the damage takes a lot more time to happen and it sure feels like you have a chance to survive. Overwhelm I could swear I have seen take one of my chars from full health to dead in less than 3 seconds (barely enough time to attempt a shield bash and have it resisted).
The dragon grabs... I'm not too sure what's going on aobut them. I've seen my characters ripped to shreds in a couple of seconds by Flemeth and I've also seen my other characters survive the entire grab of the high dragon with barely half of their health gone. Is there a sgnificant difference beween the two or is it just a combination of higher level and better armor ? I don't know.

Stuns... no opinion.

Fireball on AI = retarded. It's easier to fight the thing that drops Yusaris in the mage tower if you have decided to side with the templars because at least you don't get "allies" that kill you in this fight.

[Cadarin]

You're immune to Overwhelm if you have Shield Wall up, so your tank is in no danger. Just make sure all the enemies who have that ability are on him by taunting.



Overwhelm is interruptable by using shield bash, or any other attack that disorients/immobilizes. I've personally never seen an enemy that was stunned continue to attack, so I don't know if you're experiencing a bug or something.

[Taleroth]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

Elizabeth Sterling wrote...

6 Wolves are a bigger threat to my party than 4 Arcane horrors

I *seriously* doubt that.
Crushing prison x4 + random mix of winter's grasp, cone of cold, whatever while you can't react = gg.

That being said, yes overwhelm is stupid. It's just like a melee crushing prison, but worse : not only does it totally disable you for the duration of the move (that part is fine), it also does insane damage (=not fun, especially since you can't heal yourself during that time).

Crushing Prison does not insigificant damage, especially with the update that increases the DPS of it.  What Crushing Prison has as an advantage over Overwhelm is that Crushing Prison doesn't disable the caster.  Overwhelm does.

[Loc'n'lol]

Cadarin wrote...

You're immune to Overwhelm if you have Shield Wall up, so your tank is in no danger.

Nope.

Also shield bash can abe resisted. And in fact most likely will be resisted when you need it most. But it costs nothing to try, sometimes it works. Dirty fighting can't be resisted but it seems stuns don't interrupt overwhelm and dragons can't be stunned. It works every time on Ogre grabs, though.

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 09 décembre 2009 - 04:19 .

[Deathmistra]

Jsmith0730 wrote...

It is kind of annoying that there are some moves that are insta-death (the Ogre grab, for example). You CAN break out of it, but 9 times out of 10 as soon as my guy gets picked up I hit F9. Quicker to just start the fight over.

On nightmare against any ogre, i alway kept a character with the possibility to interrupt it, shield bash is a good exemple of doing it(low cost, fast execution) or stuff like cone of frost etc. You also can try healing but it's usualy less effective.

While i agree, when you don't except it.. it is almost a instant death. Something...that could give you some nightmare ! hahah

Theres always a possibility to counter, but it come with experience. We can't do everything perfect on the first playthrough... That's my opignion at least.

[Elizabeth Sterling]

Deathmistra wrote...

Jsmith0730 wrote...

It is kind of annoying that there are some moves that are insta-death (the Ogre grab, for example). You CAN break out of it, but 9 times out of 10 as soon as my guy gets picked up I hit F9. Quicker to just start the fight over.

On nightmare against any ogre, i alway kept a character with the possibility to interrupt it, shield bash is a good exemple of doing it(low cost, fast execution) or stuff like cone of frost etc. You also can try healing but it's usualy less effective.

While i agree, when you don't except it.. it is almost a instant death. Something...that could give you some nightmare ! hahah

Theres always a possibility to counter, but it come with experience. We can't do everything perfect on the first playthrough... That's my opignion at least.

I have to disagree. I refuse to choose my party in an RPG like this based on what will be best for combat when I'm actually trying to do as the genre suggests - roleplay. I choose who I see my PC would choose and equip them along the same lines and anything else is just meta-gaming to me. On a semi-related note I've never used AI with the Infinity Engine titles, NWN or this either, I refuse to have my game played for me by scripts.

Modifié par Elizabeth Sterling, 09 décembre 2009 - 04:27 .

[Fluffykeith]

Can't speak for Sheild Wall, but I DO know that Indominatable does not protect against Overpower. I think maybe Overpower doesn't class as a knockdown, but rather as a sort of special case. It can be interrupted by most stuns or paralyses etc

[Basil_Abdef]

You're playing on a console, I take it?  That's the only excuse I can think of that in any way justifies your whining.  After all, this game is ridiculously easy on the PC mainly due to ****** poor AI.  That, coupled with blatant imbalances (although some of them were slightly toned down with the new patch), makes the entire game a borefest, even on the highest difficulties.

[Elizabeth Sterling]

Troll alert!

[Basil_Abdef]

Well, are you? Otherwise, bad alert.



Actually, you're probably just lazy. Even bad players can manage to breeze through this game with the slightest bit of effort.

[ZtriDer1379]

I have never had any problems with wolfs.... But then again, Im running around with 1 dedicated tank, 2 mages witch both can heal and dps, and 1 dual wielding rogue for dps and traps.

The more armor you're tank has, the more initial agro he will do. Just standing still, he will pull the agro from everyone in the group before we start dps.

The mages then just counters with a ****load of CC and AoE. Grease and earthquake together makes a wonder (even if the tank is in the middel of it) And then just nuke 1 mob at a time with CC if they get to close.



But then again, it is the setup that makes it easy. I will guess with 1 tank, 1 dps warrior, 1 rogue and a mage healer/buffer/debuffer, will have a harder time with it.

[ZtriDer1379]

Normal
0
21


false
false
false







MicrosoftInternetExplorer4








/* Style Definitions */
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0cm;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-ansi-language:#0400;
mso-fareast-language:#0400;
mso-bidi-language:#0400;}



About
knocking wolfs silly, you can always petrify them, freeze them (even if you
have to do friendly fire, it is still better), and knock them off.

There are a
lot of spells that mages can use that will get them off you’re character.

Blasts -



Minor complaint here, the whole 'mages are overpowered' thing has been covered
well enough but I would also like to add that mages are clearly retarded. Having
a mage not in your party try to help you is usually more of a threat to you
than it is to your enemy. The AI is quite content to blast away at the enemy
with AoE spells from a distance even if my team is in there trying to kill the
creature. That's right, my mage allies are blowing me up.

 

There are
only 2 solutions for it. REMOVE fireball from you’re AI tactics or any other
AoE spells for that matter. And micromanage your mage. Keep an eye at all time
on their health, where the mobs are and where you’re characters are.

If you do
not like to have friendly fireballs hitting you, then don’t cast it where you’re
friendly’s are. There are a lot of other DPS spells out there. You do not HAVE
to cast AoE spells.

Micromanaging
is there for a reason. If you do not like to micromanage, then remove AoE
spells from the Tactivs all together or you will get blasted by friendly fire.

Modifié par ZtriDer1379, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:08 .

[Leather_Rebel90]

Remove Stun. That is all. Overwhelm is fine. Stun is just sooo annoying because of Stun Locks. It's like "Wow, I died because I was stunned for 15 seconds straight... That's fair."

Modifié par Leather_Rebel90, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:06 .

[Elizabeth Sterling]

There are
only 2 solutions for it. REMOVE fireball from you’re AI tactics or any other
AoE spells for that matter. And micromanage your mage. Keep an eye at all time
on their health, where the mobs are and where you’re characters are.

If you do
not like to have friendly fireballs hitting you, then don’t cast it where you’re
friendly’s are. There are a lot of other DPS spells out there. You do not HAVE
to cast AoE spells.

Micromanaging
is there for a reason. If you do not like to micromanage, then remove AoE
spells from the Tactivs all together or you will get blasted by friendly fire.

You really didn't read what I wrote, ZtriDer1379...

Modifié par Elizabeth Sterling, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:10 .

[ZtriDer1379]

v\\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}



Normal
0
21


false
false
false







MicrosoftInternetExplorer4








/* Style Definitions */
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0cm;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-ansi-language:#0400;
mso-fareast-language:#0400;
mso-bidi-language:#0400;}

Elizabeth
Sterling wrote...

Deathmistra wrote...

Jsmith0730 wrote...



It is kind of annoying that there are some moves that are insta-death (the Ogre
grab, for example). You CAN break out of it, but 9 times out of 10 as soon as
my guy gets picked up I hit F9. Quicker to just start the fight over.

On nightmare against any ogre, i alway kept a character with the possibility to
interrupt it, shield bash is a good exemple of doing it(low cost, fast
execution) or stuff like cone of frost etc. You also can try healing but it's
usualy less effective.



While i agree, when you don't except it.. it is almost a instant death. Something...that
could give you some nightmare ! hahah



Theres always a possibility to counter, but it come with experience. We can't
do everything perfect on the first playthrough... That's my opignion at least.



















file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ronyh/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image002.gif

I have to disagree. I refuse to choose my party in an RPG like this
based on what will be best for combat when I'm actually trying to do as the
genre suggests - roleplay. I choose who I see my PC would choose and equip them
along the same lines and anything else is just meta-gaming to me. On a
semi-related note I've never used AI with the Infinity Engine titles, NWN or
this either, I refuse to have my game played for me by scripts.

 

In other
words, you refuse to use skills or save mana/stamina because you prefer to roll
play the character?

So because
you’re roll playing does not fit into the game, you come here and QQ about how
unfair the AI is with you and that the NPC’s will not alow you to keep roll
playing in combat?

 

Please
correct me if Im wrong there.

[Taleroth]

ZtriDer, get a real browser. Jinkies.

[Elizabeth Sterling]

Again you failed to actually read and understand, ZtriDer1379, I refuse to use specific characters based on how I want to play the game. Isn't that why they give us the choice? I have no mages in my default party this playthrough, it just worked out that way with the character I'm playing.

Modifié par Elizabeth Sterling, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:15 .

[AshedMan]

You should roleplay a character in your party who is prepared for tough battles such as Ogre fights or wolf battles and maybe have someone with shield bash, or pummel strike, or any of the various knockdowns that make a monster release their grip. I know that if I kept dying because of a certain tactic the enemy used then one of my characters would learn to counteract it.

Modifié par AshedMan, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:19 .

[Basil_Abdef]

Well, that's your problem right there. A mage is worth at least two of any other class. Two mages could easily steamroll the whole game, especially if one were an AW. Refusing to use certain characters based on RP (lawl) reasons is all fine and well, but don't start whining about being unable to sprint after shooting yourself in the foot.

[Elizabeth Sterling]

I've never had an issue with ogre fights actually, and as already discussed I've found little that's good for actually cancelling an overwhelm anyway. If we don't really have a choice about who we take along then that's a fault with the game for offering it in the first place as far as I'm concerned.

Modifié par Elizabeth Sterling, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:22 .

[ZtriDer1379]

Elizabeth Sterling wrote...

Again you failed to actually read and understand, ZtriDer1379, I refuse to use specific characters based on how I want to play the game. Isn't that why they give us the choice? I have no mages in my default party this playthrough, it just worked out that way with the character I'm playing.

Normal
0
21


false
false
false







MicrosoftInternetExplorer4








/* Style Definitions */
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0cm;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-ansi-language:#0400;
mso-fareast-language:#0400;
mso-bidi-language:#0400;}

Taleroth
wrote...



ZtriDer, get a real browser. Jinkies.

 

I know L It is the workplays Im at that has
this borwser. Well. Im using latest fireox, but it does not matter when I
replay or making a post.

I get
random stuff when I post. At times it is working perfectly but then the next
post is totally ****ed up :s

 

Elizabeth
Sterling wrote...



Again you failed to actually read and understand, ZtriDer1379, I refuse to use specific characters
based on how I want to play the game. Isn't that why they give us the choice? I
have no mages in my default party this playthrough, it just worked out that way
with the character I'm playing.

 

In other
words, you want other characters to be able to help counter this problems?

Like having
the rogue to get a knock back. Like “powerfull kick” or something. Resist check
or knocked to the ground.

As for 2
hander warriors. They have enough, tanks have too, unless it is he who gets mewled
at. The only character I can think of that does not have any proper counter for
it, is rogue. Unless you are playing a dual wield warrior.

Am I
correct now?