56 réponses à ce sujet

[Taleroth]

AshedMan wrote...

You should roleplay a character in your party who is prepared for tough battles such as Ogre fights or wolf battles and maybe have someone with shield bash, or pummel strike, or any of the various knockdowns that make a monster release their grip. I know that if I kept dying because of a certain tactic the enemy used then one of my characters would learn to counteract it.

I, too, tend to roleplay characters who do not believe blind frontal assaults are the way to address the Darkspawn threat.

Okay, that was a little condescending to the OP, but hopefully humorous while showing my agreement with AshedMan's point.  Roleplaying doesn't mean "I only pick characters I agree with!"  The fantasy genre from which fantasy RPGs is rather filled with groups of adventurers who disagree with each other, but joined together anyway.

[Elizabeth Sterling]

It's hard to say, ZtriDer1379, I really can't work out what you're trying to say here...

And as I said previously, why offer the alternatives if they're useless? Isn't that like making a FPS where your only choices are a railgun, a pillow and a ******? Seems like poor game design to me.

Modifié par Elizabeth Sterling, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:26 .

[Naxarrath]

I hate overpower too, even if i stun the one who overpowered my mage he will still get eaten, only shield bash and pommel strike seems to work, still there is lot of counter moves enough to keep your party alive mostly.

[AshedMan]

You keep claiming there are no abilities that cancel an overwhelm when many have been listed throughout your thread. One of your arguments is that you do not have a mage. That's fine and dandy because I've never used my mage's abilities to cancel an overwhelm, but I seem to get out of it just fine. I often use shield bash or pommel strike. People have listed other abilities from rogues, too. Are you going to tell us that your party has no mages, warriors, or rogues?

[Revik]

Elizabeth Sterling wrote...

Again you failed to actually read and understand, ZtriDer1379, I refuse to use specific characters based on how I want to play the game. Isn't that why they give us the choice? I have no mages in my default party this playthrough, it just worked out that way with the character I'm playing.

What party member ARE you using?  Then maybe we can suggest strategies which can help your cause.

If you want to role play a PC that is ill-prepared at every turn that is your business but don't blame the game for being too hard because of your own role-playing folly.  If you are having a hard time it should give you some indication that had this been an actual pen-and-paper session your PC would have likely been killed by now so tear up your character sheet.

[Elizabeth Sterling]

I'm telling you they ain't working for me. Perhaps it's a bug but it's not doing the trick.

[Taleroth]

Elizabeth Sterling wrote...

And as I said previously, why offer the alternatives if they're useless? Isn't that like making a FPS where your only choices are a railgun, a pillow and a ******? Seems like poor game design to me.

Who says they're useless?  A balanced group still exercises alternatives.

[Basil_Abdef]

Elizabeth Sterling wrote...

It's hard to say, ZtriDer1379, I really can't work out what you're trying to say here...

And as I said previously, why offer the alternatives if they're useless? Isn't that like making a FPS where your only choices are a railgun, a pillow and a ******? Seems like poor game design to me.

Oh ho ho, but reading these boards, one would think that is perfectly fine game design.  What with all the cries of "single player games don't need balance", "this isn't WoW", and (my favorite) "just don't use what's overpowered!"

[Elizabeth Sterling]

Perhaps I'm expecting too much of what I got in other RPGs like Baldur's Gate where the game was hard but could be completed with any combination of characters you cared for. I accept it's a different title so perhaps I'm expecting too much but it certainly still strikes me that even with all that's suggested giving something this powerful to a wolf or werewolf is ridiculous, especially as they seem to use it more than an ogre uses grab.

[orpheus333]

All Overwhelm gets from me is a quick use of Shield Bash or Pommel Strike. I save these talents in Overwhelm heavy areas just for this purpose.

[ZtriDer1379]

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Elizabeth
Sterling wrote...



It's hard to say, ZtriDer1379, I really can't work out what you're
trying to say here...



And as I said previously, why offer the alternatives if they're useless? Isn't
that like making a FPS where your only choices are a railgun, a pillow and a
******? Seems like poor game design to me.

 

Well, as I
see it, you want to roll play, and you do not want to spec into a cookie cutter
spec. But no matter how much you want to roll play.

But if you decide
to roll play and spec a weak spec because of it, then you just have to accept
that you need to save and reload quite often.

Because you’re
rollplaying spec does not suit the game does not mean the game is at fault. There
are a LOT of skills/spells out there that can
counter this effects, and if you don’t want to use them, then it is you’re
problem.

 

Of corse I
do agree that mages are a face roll class when it comes to this. But both 2
hander warriors and 1hand + shield warriors offerce knockback/knock down
abilities in their spec.

 

And
desiding to go without a mage (a group without a healer) and depend fully on
potions, well, you can’t exactly come back here and complain that you’re roll player
group without a healer does not do that well against sirten enemies with
sierten skills.

 

What kinda
group are you really running now? 3x rogues and a tank?

[Elizabeth Sterling]

Basil_Abdef wrote...

Elizabeth Sterling wrote...

It's hard to say, ZtriDer1379, I really can't work out what you're trying to say here...

And as I said previously, why offer the alternatives if they're useless? Isn't that like making a FPS where your only choices are a railgun, a pillow and a ******? Seems like poor game design to me.

Oh ho ho, but reading these boards, one would think that is perfectly fine game design.  What with all the cries of "single player games don't need balance", "this isn't WoW", and (my favorite) "just don't use what's overpowered!"

I have to agree with you there, that kind of bugs me...

[AshedMan]

Elizabeth Sterling wrote...

I'm telling you they ain't working for me. Perhaps it's a bug but it's not doing the trick.

They don't work 100% of the time.  If your character misses their hit (like overwhelm or pommel strike) or there is a resistance then it will not cancel the overwhelm.  Perhaps this is what you are experiencing? 

[Taleroth]

Elizabeth Sterling wrote...

Perhaps I'm expecting too much of what I got in other RPGs like Baldur's Gate where the game was hard but could be completed with any combination of characters you cared for.

poppycock.  You have no idea how ridiculously difficult Baldur's Gate was without a proper fighter (and 2 required stuff like +5 weapons for anyone who wanted to hit the boss) unless you cheesed the game to hell and back with orbs or summons.

[Elizabeth Sterling]

I play BG:T time and time again, I usually go through with a thief, mages and clerics. Seems to work for me, Taleroth. Still, different experiences I guess.



@ Ashedman - no, it really does appear to be broken. The 'stunned' graphic can be swirling around a monster's head with the message 'stunned' and it just keeps tearing away. Really must be a bug.

[Cydz]

I agree with the overwhelm skill, it is by far the most feared ability in the game for me. if it happens it often leads to the victim dying.

ogre grab i have not problem with, just finished my second run this time on nightmare and did a ali/leliana/wyn/pc rogue set up and all ogres died so fast so even if they used the move they died by the time the picked some one up. only the first ogre in the game is deadly any other ogre is like any other creep. Mabari warhounds on the other hand are deadly.

[Staylost]

Sorry Elizabeth, I think you've gotten the advice you need. You appear to be proficient at the game, but that doesn't mean you should be able to easily run through the game with any party you want. Should I complain, if I go with an all Constitution party, that my characters can hit anything?



The fact is, there were optimum builds in BG and there are in DA:O as well. There are also optimum parties compositions that will make you stronger.



The game developers have been nothing if not honest about this. They have scoffed at us suggesting running through the game without having one of each class in our party. Yes, it can be done they said, but is it fun?



I agree that you could play the BG series without a fighter. Some areas would be hard (the very beginning of BG1 & the very end of TOB), but like you, I got very good at the game and could shred it with the difficulty enhancement mod. However, have you ever played BG without any cleric/druid/sorcerer/mage in your party?



It can be done. But is it any fun reloading so often?



(PS: you were right about that troll!)

[Invalidcode]

Actually, if there was even a way of interrupting it that'd be nice, say

Shield Bash
Shield pummel
Overpower
Riposte
Punisher
Pommel strike
Two hand weapon sweep
Scattering shot
Improved warcry
Holy smite
Dirty fighting

And well, magic...

[ZtriDer1379]

Ok, so you are in reality not comlaining about the skills are doing that high damage and how annying they are, but that you're counters are not effective or are bugging out?

[Bibdy]

This is why you save your CC stuff for interrupting overwhelms when you're surrounded by overwhelming creatures...



If my mage gets overwhelmed, I send my 2H warrior to Pommel Strike it off. If my Warrior gets overwhelmed, I have my mage Cone of Cold it off (or both of them, but its better than eating a full overwhelm), or you just use heal spells to keep them alive (since they can't use potions themselves) and use potions to keep up your other guys in the meantime.



Its called strategy...overwhelm was one of the most innovative combat abilities they introduced into the game. Its finally not just Mages that get ridiculous CC/damage effects tied together. One of my gripes with the game is that Warriors and Rogues never got any grapple/throw moves as an equivalent. The talent selection for them is kind of dull.

[Elizabeth Sterling]

 Sorry Elizabeth, I think you've gotten the advice you need. You appear to be proficient at the game, but that doesn't mean you should be able to easily run through the game with any party you want. Should I complain, if I go with an all Constitution party, that my characters can hit anything?

Easy is one thing but I'm being shredded to bits by creatures that don't even offer the same EXP my characters get from coughing at level 15 and, especially considering this may be due to a real bug aside from anything else, I feel fairly justified in saying this thing doesn't stack up.

Besides, even if you can disrupt it in all those ways it still kills you faster than I've seen ogre grab, it's on a level of zero-to-dead with the high dragon's grab ability and they use it more frequently.

Modifié par Elizabeth Sterling, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:59 .

[Naxarrath]

Invalidcode wrote...

Shield Bash
Shield pummel
Overpower
Riposte
Punisher
Pommel strike
Two hand weapon sweep
Scattering shot
Improved warcry
Holy smite
Dirty fighting

And well, magic...

Dirty fighting or riposte will not interrupt overwhelm, i'm fairly sure scattershot wont either since it's also stun.

[Bibdy]

Staylost wrote...

Sorry Elizabeth, I think you've gotten the advice you need. You appear to be proficient at the game, but that doesn't mean you should be able to easily run through the game with any party you want. Should I complain, if I go with an all Constitution party, that my characters can hit anything?

The fact is, there were optimum builds in BG and there are in DA:O as well. There are also optimum parties compositions that will make you stronger.

The game developers have been nothing if not honest about this. They have scoffed at us suggesting running through the game without having one of each class in our party. Yes, it can be done they said, but is it fun?

I agree that you could play the BG series without a fighter. Some areas would be hard (the very beginning of BG1 & the very end of TOB), but like you, I got very good at the game and could shred it with the difficulty enhancement mod. However, have you ever played BG without any cleric/druid/sorcerer/mage in your party?

It can be done. But is it any fun reloading so often?

(PS: you were right about that troll!)

Indeed. BG was easy. I don't know what fantasy world people are living in where that game was actually the least bit difficult. If you lost a fight, you just had to wake up, reload and don't try and sleepwalk your way through the thing. As for group composition, you needed a few core elements to your team, just like any other party-based RPG, but you could basically carry around a few non-essential and pretty horribly weak characters, because the party size could go up to 6. Now you've only got 4 characters to fill the 'role quota', so its quite a bit tighter.

Haer'dalis was practically useless until later in the game, but dragging him along for the early part of the game wasn't a big deal, because...well you were basically dragging him along for the ride. Same with playing a mage in BG1. If your very first spell wasn't Sleep, you were probably going to get your ass kicked by every pack of creatures you came across.

BG1 was hard to begin with, I'll give you that, but that's because of the main flaw in the D&D rules system they used. Fully decked out in platemail, but you could still get practically 1-shot by even a wolf at level 1 or 2. Having to reload a lot to beat an encounter in an RPG doesn't necessarily make it hard. It just means you're playing the roulette wheel to try and get better rolls next time.

My level 1 party, straight out of Candlekeep, had the capability to beat that Ogre with the male-female belt thing easy...if the Sleep spell wasn't resisted, and/or they didn't get squished in 1-shot by the guy.

Modifié par Bibdy, 09 décembre 2009 - 06:03 .

[Invalidcode]

Naxarrath wrote...



Dirty fighting or riposte will not interrupt overwhelm, i'm fairly sure scattershot wont either since it's also stun.

Stun interrupts it. The mob will stay there and stunned, check the health bar if you must, your member takes zero damage when the mob is stunned. Your member will take their sweet time & get up VERY VERY slowy.

Shield bash type talents/spell 'push' the mob away.

It is different but all works.

[Naxarrath]

Invalidcode wrote...


Stun interrupts it. The mob will stay there and stunned, check the health bar if you must, your member takes zero damage when the mob is stunned. Your member will take their sweet time & get up VERY VERY slowy.

Shield bash type talents/spell 'push' the mob away.

It is different but all works.

Not on my game, even if i stun everything with mindblast and noone resist the one who got overwhelmed still continues to take damage.