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[Recidiva]

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

I smell a future DLC where you have Morrigan as the antagonist and she's got her "old god" child at her side and you have to put them both down.

I'm hoping for PLAYING Morrigan's child.  And deciding whether or not you're going to put the world down.

[Original182]

Recidiva wrote...

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

I smell a future DLC where you have Morrigan as the antagonist and she's got her "old god" child at her side and you have to put them both down.

I'm hoping for PLAYING Morrigan's child.  And deciding whether or not you're going to put the world down.

Child of Bhaal!

[Boss Fog]

ooo and depending on who the father is (either the PC or Alistair) you're out to kill your father maybe? >.>

[The Angry One]

Skepticism is a useful tool in any medium, there is no requirement for "belief" here, the old god's power is evident in the game lore.

This doesn't make them gods, this makes them beings of immense power and since we know magic exists in this world this can be accepted.

[The Angry One]

Recidiva wrote...

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

I smell a future DLC where you have Morrigan as the antagonist and she's got her "old god" child at her side and you have to put them both down.

I'm hoping for PLAYING Morrigan's child.  And deciding whether or not you're going to put the world down.

Sten: No.

Me: Hell no!

If we get a game/DLC where we have to be a Bhaalspawn redux I will personally fly to Canada and give the BioWare devs a stern finger-wagging.
Then steal their cutlery.

[marshalleck]

The Angry One wrote...

Skepticism is a useful tool in any medium,

Of course. I didn't mean to imply that it has no use when discussing game lore...but my spidey sense was telling me that Curlain might argue with Gaider himself, whose word is final--like it or not. Archdemons are corrupted Old Gods. This is corroborated from multiple sources in the game and by the writers.

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:39 .

[Curlain]

The Angry One wrote...

Again, what proves the Archdemon's power is that when it's tainted it can do what NO OTHER BEING can do, control the entire darkspawn horde. Even the most powerful Hurlock Alpha can only put a small warband together.

Another possible factor, we know the mutative effects the taint can have on human, elven, dwarven and quanri females (ie potentially completely transform them into broodmothers).  How do we know that a similar use of the taint on High Dragons could not transform one into a focus of the darkspawn hivemind (this leading to a very intelligent being in deed pontential).

Again I am playing a little bit of the devil's advocate here, but in a game where all belief systems are down to faith, I don't think you can say the Archdemon is without question an 'Old God' but that is a matter of interpertation and how you read things (just like all the Maker stuff etc)

Edit - I might argue with Gaider, I'd lose, but it could be fun

Modifié par Curlain, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:43 .

[Original182]

marshalleck wrote...
Of course. I didn't mean to imply that it has no use when discussing game lore...but my spidey sense was telling me that Curlain might argue with Gaider himself, whose word is final--like it or not. Archdemons are corrupted Old Gods. This is corroborated from multiple sources in the game and by the writers.

Curlain isn't the one you should argue with. He did say he hopes the Archdemon is an Old God, just he wants more proof. Once Morrigan's child is born with an Old God's power, maybe it'll be proof enough for him that an invisible Old God exists.

[Boss Fog]

The Angry One wrote...

Recidiva wrote...

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

I smell a future DLC where you have Morrigan as the antagonist and she's got her "old god" child at her side and you have to put them both down.

I'm hoping for PLAYING Morrigan's child.  And deciding whether or not you're going to put the world down.

Sten: No.

Me: Hell no!

If we get a game/DLC where we have to be a Bhaalspawn redux I will personally fly to Canada and give the BioWare devs a stern finger-wagging.
Then steal their cutlery.

What is this term Bhaalspawn?

[Alex Savchovsky]

Recidiva wrote...

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

I smell a future DLC where you have Morrigan as the antagonist and she's got her "old god" child at her side and you have to put them both down.

I'm hoping for PLAYING Morrigan's child.  And deciding whether or not you're going to put the world down.

This would be a bit too "Baldur's Gate"-ish. Although it worked well once, so it is possible. For sure, it would be an utter waste if they just took Morrigan and her child as antagonists in a DLC. That plot line has much bigger potential.

[marshalleck]

Original182 wrote...

Curlain isn't the one you should
argue with. He did say he hopes the Archdemon is an Old God, just he
wants more proof. Once Morrigan's child is born with an Old God's
power, maybe it'll be proof enough for him that an invisible Old God
exists.

I'm not going to argue with Curlain. He doesn't think a dolphin leading an army of darkspawn to war is unreasonable. Arguing with that is a losing proposition. I will grudgingly admit a small amout of respect for being willing to take that position however. :happy:

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 décembre 2009 - 05:45 .

[The Angry One]

The problem with the theory that any High Dragon could be Archdemon is that the darkspawn would simply run around the mountains and get one like Fake Andraste instead of taking centuries to dig for an old god.

[The Angry One]

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Recidiva wrote...

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

I smell a future DLC where you have Morrigan as the antagonist and she's got her "old god" child at her side and you have to put them both down.

I'm hoping for PLAYING Morrigan's child.  And deciding whether or not you're going to put the world down.

Sten: No.

Me: Hell no!

If we get a game/DLC where we have to be a Bhaalspawn redux I will personally fly to Canada and give the BioWare devs a stern finger-wagging.
Then steal their cutlery.

What is this term Bhaalspawn?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhaalspawn

[Boss Fog]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Recidiva wrote...

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

I smell a future DLC where you have Morrigan as the antagonist and she's got her "old god" child at her side and you have to put them both down.

I'm hoping for PLAYING Morrigan's child.  And deciding whether or not you're going to put the world down.

This would be a bit too "Baldur's Gate"-ish. Although it worked well once, so it is possible. For sure, it would be an utter waste if they just took Morrigan and her child as antagonists in a DLC. That plot line has much bigger potential.

Assuming the DLC only spans like 5 hrs of gameplay, then yeah it'd be a waste.  No one said the story had to end quickly.  I mean it's obvious BW plans to do something with the storyline.

[Curlain]

Aye, you do have a point about the darkspawn digging for buried dragons rather then going after ones like Fake Andraste, hopefully it is a Old God

[Statulos]

The Angry One wrote...

Recidiva wrote...

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

I smell a future DLC where you have Morrigan as the antagonist and she's got her "old god" child at her side and you have to put them both down.

I'm hoping for PLAYING Morrigan's child.  And deciding whether or not you're going to put the world down.

Sten: No.

Me: Hell no!

If we get a game/DLC where we have to be a Bhaalspawn redux I will personally fly to Canada and give the BioWare devs a stern finger-wagging.
Then steal their cutlery.

I´m with you on that one: if the pc (orother Warden) impregnated Morrigan, they should face the consequences of his acts. Bhaalspawns were nice once, but not again.

[Alex Savchovsky]

TelvanniWarlord wrote...

Assuming the DLC only spans like 5 hrs of gameplay, then yeah it'd be a waste.  No one said the story had to end quickly.  I mean it's obvious BW plans to do something with the storyline.

It's not really just about the gameplay time, although I agree that it shouldn't end quickly.
The situation at the end of DA:O is quite... complex. Forcing the story into "ok, now Morrigan and her child are the bad guys" seems like a waste to me. I'd like to choose the side in the coming fight.

[Recidiva]

Curlain wrote...

Aye, you do have a point about the darkspawn digging for buried dragons rather then going after ones like Fake Andraste, hopefully it is a Old God

Theoretically it's the only information that the Darkspawn have.  They don't have homing signals, they have blind faith that tunnelling through the earth will nab them a dragon.  A HELPLESS dragon.

Removing all the stories that pop up regarding things that humans passed down, the behavior of the darkspawn is one of instinct and of locusts, which is why they can't actually strategize their way out of a paper bag, they need to gain a mind.   And not a very bright mind either, just someone with a lot of forces they can pick a direction and point them that way. 

Even the old god is apparently helpless and trapped and has nothing better to do and no choice about being tainted and becoming the hive mind.

They could have gone after Flemeth and they could have gone after the High Dragon, sure.  But those are creatures that can MOVE and aren't trapped.  They have their minds and their freedom.  Any dragon that isn't trapped in the earth can...you know...kill them or fly away.

Modifié par Recidiva, 09 décembre 2009 - 06:09 .

[The Angry One]

Even dragons need to sleep some time you know, the darkspawn can also "sense" the power of the old gods which is how they know where to dig.

Darkspawn aren't entirely stupid anyway, individual groups know enough basic strategy to know how to set up road blocks and ambushes.

[Recidiva]

The Angry One wrote...

Even dragons need to sleep some time you know, the darkspawn can also "sense" the power of the old gods which is how they know where to dig.
Darkspawn aren't entirely stupid anyway, individual groups know enough basic strategy to know how to set up road blocks and ambushes.

Well, if they're smart and they're choosing, I'd still choose to tunnel underground with all their reinforcements between them and the humans/elves/dwarves that might interfere, to slogging around on mountaintops.

For all they know, Wardens are waiting on the griffon thing to spring it at the last second.

Makes sense to me either way to go after something helpless at their strongest focus of power, after something with no choice,  than to go wild goose chasing in the exposed cold after something that might of might not be sleeping.

[PsychoMunkys]

has any body that thats she just makes it up as she goes a long , i mean she nos about the ritule but not what the end result is gonne be, i think there is a bigger change the child wil kil morrigan , lets face even if she is planning to take over the child she doesn't have the power, when is see morigan turn in to a high dragon, she can take over the god child



but the soul of the old god wil stil find a new host would't she just be traped in that body whit the old god



and what if it is a boy can she stil take over the god child body



and she could not realy trust the child whit al that power i mean she could be dead if she trys to take over





but i don't think morrigan is that evil she is just very practical

[Recidiva]

PsychoMunkys wrote...

has any body that thats she just makes it up as she goes a long , i mean she nos about the ritule but not what the end result is gonne be, i think there is a bigger change the child wil kil morrigan , lets face even if she is planning to take over the child she doesn't have the power, when is see morigan turn in to a high dragon, she can take over the god child

but the soul of the old god wil stil find a new host would't she just be traped in that body whit the old god

and what if it is a boy can she stil take over the god child body

and she could not realy trust the child whit al that power i mean she could be dead if she trys to take over

but i don't think morrigan is that evil she is just very practical

How is that much ambition and tortured strategy practical?  PRACTICAL is leaving the wilds to get a decent job and making her own money and then frying to a crisp quietly and setting up scapegoats for anyone trying to do her harm.

Having the ambition to ignore entirely the fact that she has to wipe out the blight to achieve her goals, this is not practical.  This is ridiculously ambitious with a huge and nasty payoff.

If subverting another person's/child's/god's will to achieve her goals is not evil, then what would qualify as evil to you?  Or mystical slavery is cool with you and is as practical as comfortable shoes?

[CarlSpackler]

PsychoMunkys wrote...

has any body that thats she just makes it up as she goes a long , i mean she nos about the ritule but not what the end result is gonne be, i think there is a bigger change the child wil kil morrigan , lets face even if she is planning to take over the child she doesn't have the power, when is see morigan turn in to a high dragon, she can take over the god child

but the soul of the old god wil stil find a new host would't she just be traped in that body whit the old god

and what if it is a boy can she stil take over the god child body

and she could not realy trust the child whit al that power i mean she could be dead if she trys to take over


but i don't think morrigan is that evil she is just very practical

 Yeah a lot of unkowns with Morrigan.  Also "evil" I guess would depend on what you use as your definition of evil.  Back to my original post, if she is sacrificing the soul of her own child at the expense of power I would consider that evil.  Now as has been put forward, she may not be.  Still her motivations are undoubtably selfish.  She demonstrated time and time again that in her mind that her own selfish ends justify any means.  She looks down on altruism, sees it as a weakness.  I was one of the poor sops who tried very hard to no end to change her.  Heh, que cera cera.    The night she made the offer I felt like Meatloaf "And though I pleaded and I begged her not to walk out that door, She packed her bags and turned right away..."

  As to the discussion relating to the old gods.  Yeah its not in question that its possible in DAO that there is no maker or old gods.  That it was only misunderstanding or reading of events that led to either belief system.  Its also conceivable for instance that the Chantry is completly correct in everything the preach.  In other words it doesn't violate anything known in the DAO universe, so the chantry could be correct, all comes down to faith as it were.  (Of course I'm sure the chantry has its version of Thomas Aquinas with his theistic proofs, but that is neither here nor there I suppose.)

  My only point above is that Morrigan appears to believe in some definition of old god that would have a greater locus than merely a "super" high dragon as it were.  Of course this is all semantics on definition of god, etc. 

[Asante81]

And who says that the beings that become archdemons aren't the next step of dragon evolution? I mean... you know... something like apes and humans. Something like a sidebranch that developed into more powerful beings but only differ in a small percentage of genes from the lower forms... Ah, whatever. They're pixel creatures. Maybe some developers didn't think that through again and it's just a logical gap... *shrugs*

[Hrodberht]

The Angry One wrote...


The Maker being a divine being responsible for all creation or in fact existing at all is backed up by:
- The Chantry's word.

Yeah.

Well, *something* gave power to the sacred ashes.  And something gave power to the oath the Guardian made such that he lives as long as he needs to to fulfill it.