159 réponses à ce sujet

[Asante81]

There's one thing we should consider. It's the time. How long does it take your character to gather all your allies? About a year minimum? Means, Anora has more than enough time to act. Does she? Nope, she doesn't. She's sitting there over a year, pretending to be the blind queen as long as she's the official queen, watching daddy doing more and more things wrong and instead of doing the right thing and supporting Loghain's opposers she does: NOTHING!

You all make it sound as if all that happened in two weeks. It didn't.

[Asante81]

Taleroth wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

yeah, but we don't want anyone to actually SAY it
but thank you for that completely... unselfish... offer... You just wanted some girls holding tight onto you, didn't you?

I'm just expressing my sensitive, thoughtful, and caring side!

Do you have a bandage?  I seem to be bleeding.

*bandages Taleroth*
*pats him on the shoulder*
There you go.
And, we learned something new about women, didn't we?

[Taleroth]

Asante81 wrote...

And, we learned something new about women, didn't we?

Always check for knives.

[Curlain]

And wear full plate armour (there's a reason Alistair makes love with it on sometimes you know )

Modifié par Curlain, 09 décembre 2009 - 11:07 .

[Asante81]

Taleroth wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

And, we learned something new about women, didn't we?

Always check for knives.

That wasn't what I meant... but yes... *secretly sharpens her hidden knives*

[Darth_Trethon]

Asante81 wrote...

There's one thing we should consider. It's the time. How long does it take your character to gather all your allies? About a year minimum? Means, Anora has more than enough time to act. Does she? Nope, she doesn't. She's sitting there over a year, pretending to be the blind queen as long as she's the official queen, watching daddy doing more and more things wrong and instead of doing the right thing and supporting Loghain's opposers she does: NOTHING!
You all make it sound as if all that happened in two weeks. It didn't.

She's in captivity with noone but an elf servant. This is starting to get rather ridiculous. Do you think Loghain and Howe weren't watching her closely? Why do you think they locked her up before the landsmeet? Only Teagan spoke against Loghain at the first landsmeet while most of the others were happy to follow Loghain. There was nothing she could do to gather enough incriminating evidence to turn the nobility against the nation's greatest hero and general.

Seriously this is just plain silly. You and the othe one who keep blindly arguing agains Anora without any solid arguments. I get it you don't like her because she hurt your feelings when you wanted to support Alistair but seriously you can't base an argument on blind feelings.

[Asante81]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

There's one thing we should consider. It's the time. How long does it take your character to gather all your allies? About a year minimum? Means, Anora has more than enough time to act. Does she? Nope, she doesn't. She's sitting there over a year, pretending to be the blind queen as long as she's the official queen, watching daddy doing more and more things wrong and instead of doing the right thing and supporting Loghain's opposers she does: NOTHING!
You all make it sound as if all that happened in two weeks. It didn't.

She's in captivity with noone but an elf servant. This is starting to get rather ridiculous. Do you think Loghain and Howe weren't watching her closely? Why do you think they locked her up before the landsmeet? Only Teagan spoke against Loghain at the first landsmeet while most of the others were happy to follow Loghain. There was nothing she could do to gather enough incriminating evidence to turn the nobility against the nation's greatest hero and general.

Seriously this is just plain silly. You and the othe one who keep blindly arguing agains Anora without any solid arguments. I get it you don't like her because she hurt your feelings when you wanted to support Alistair but seriously you can't base an argument on blind feelings.

*laughs*
You're telling me she was locked up there for a year?
And we're the ones blindly arguing? Who's the one believing everything an NPC tells about him/herself without questioning it at all?
Just how many versions of "all of this" have you played through actually?

[Titius.Vibius]

I would love to slit her throat just like his daddee. You lying woman. I though you had my back!

[Darth_Trethon]

Asante81 wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

There's one thing we should consider. It's the time. How long does it take your character to gather all your allies? About a year minimum? Means, Anora has more than enough time to act. Does she? Nope, she doesn't. She's sitting there over a year, pretending to be the blind queen as long as she's the official queen, watching daddy doing more and more things wrong and instead of doing the right thing and supporting Loghain's opposers she does: NOTHING!
You all make it sound as if all that happened in two weeks. It didn't.

She's in captivity with noone but an elf servant. This is starting to get rather ridiculous. Do you think Loghain and Howe weren't watching her closely? Why do you think they locked her up before the landsmeet? Only Teagan spoke against Loghain at the first landsmeet while most of the others were happy to follow Loghain. There was nothing she could do to gather enough incriminating evidence to turn the nobility against the nation's greatest hero and general.

Seriously this is just plain silly. You and the othe one who keep blindly arguing agains Anora without any solid arguments. I get it you don't like her because she hurt your feelings when you wanted to support Alistair but seriously you can't base an argument on blind feelings.

*laughs*
You're telling me she was locked up there for a year?
And we're the ones blindly arguing? Who's the one believing everything an NPC tells about him/herself without questioning it at all?
Just how many versions of "all of this" have you played through actually?

No you're right they were only watching her on weekends.....especially because they knew they couldn't trust her. They took turns too.....Loghain would watch her on saturdays and Howe had sundays.....during the week she was free to walk freely and snoop into all the heavily guarded areas that like howe's dungeon and loghain's slave trade operation where the guards were to kill anyone unauthorized on sight.....and of course Loghain and Howe would have told them to give her free access**rolls eyes**

Yes she was continuously watched and guarded. Loghain and Howe weren't fools....they locked her up before the landsmeet precisely because they knew she wasn't on their side. That's what military leaders that take power through military coups do in real life too.....when they don't execute an opponent that is. With Howe watching her every move she was lucky to have survived that long.

I believe her profile. Her accomplishments that are common knowledge to the entire country. The respect she earned from her foes. So no it's not like I just take her word for it.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 09 décembre 2009 - 11:31 .

[Asante81]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

There's one thing we should consider. It's the time. How long does it take your character to gather all your allies? About a year minimum? Means, Anora has more than enough time to act. Does she? Nope, she doesn't. She's sitting there over a year, pretending to be the blind queen as long as she's the official queen, watching daddy doing more and more things wrong and instead of doing the right thing and supporting Loghain's opposers she does: NOTHING!
You all make it sound as if all that happened in two weeks. It didn't.

She's in captivity with noone but an elf servant. This is starting to get rather ridiculous. Do you think Loghain and Howe weren't watching her closely? Why do you think they locked her up before the landsmeet? Only Teagan spoke against Loghain at the first landsmeet while most of the others were happy to follow Loghain. There was nothing she could do to gather enough incriminating evidence to turn the nobility against the nation's greatest hero and general.

Seriously this is just plain silly. You and the othe one who keep blindly arguing agains Anora without any solid arguments. I get it you don't like her because she hurt your feelings when you wanted to support Alistair but seriously you can't base an argument on blind feelings.

*laughs*
You're telling me she was locked up there for a year?
And we're the ones blindly arguing? Who's the one believing everything an NPC tells about him/herself without questioning it at all?
Just how many versions of "all of this" have you played through actually?

Yes she was continuously watched and guarded. Loghain and Howe weren't fools....they locked her up before the landsmeet precisely because they knew she wasn't on their side. That's what military leaders that take power through military coups do in real life too.....when they don't execute an opponent that is. With Howe watching her every move she was lucky to have survived that long.

I believe her profile. Her accomplishments that are common knowledge to the entire country. The respect she earned from her foes. So no it's not like I just take her word for it.

All right, you've made me read it again. And I have to say, this profile of hers sounds like something you find in a tourist brochure. It isn't necessarily the truth just because it's written down somewhere. It's not the writers "behind the scenes" view either. It's what the ingame population which has no idea about the person AT ALL know of her. That's really a great document to testify about her character or motivations... I'm still saying you're refusing to even THINK about her. Only thing you do is glorify her to no end.
Taking the ingame codex entry as the holy truth about Anora means that everything else is true by the word too. Including the Maker, the Chant, the Creators, the Ancestors... all at the same time... and all the other ingame myths and legends.
If you want to believe it, fine... enjoy it...

Modifié par Asante81, 09 décembre 2009 - 11:32 .

[tmp7704]

The Angry One wrote...

The fact remains Loghain's claim is illegal.

I actually wonder. We don't know first thing on what it takes for Ferelden regent to be legal one or not, do we? The banns (or rather some of them) don't exactly question the legality of Loghain's claim, they just tell him he doesn't get to boss them around because they don't trust him. But if i understand it right that's par for the course as far as establishing a ruler in Ferelden goes and has little to do with the legality.

Again, Zathrian can handle himself. He can summon bloody trees to do his bidding. And the Dalish know that, he's the one who single-handedly saved Lanaya from a whole band of bandits.

And again, it's nothing but stupid and unnecessary risk when the guard at the gate can instead say "Ok you can't prove you're Grey Warden, i will relay message to our leader but you don't get to see them. If you don't like it shemlen, tough. We aren't these obedient city elves you know."

That's how desperation works, you know.

Why is he actually so desperate other than it being the requirement for your plot to advance? I mean he is waiting for reinforcements from Denerim and in his own words he believes it cannot be long now for them to arrive. He doesn't have to risk getting his situation worse because "oh gods they're coming out of walls, out of the goddamn walls", to the contrary he specifically comments he's got time to answer all the questions you can throw at him because the tower has been quiet for a while. With this in mind he can very well just opt to wait some more and your merry band of troublemakers can just see themselves out... can't they?

Owing you their very lives would sort of skew things in your favor.

Yes you risked your life to saved theirs once, and they repaid you by risking these lives in the fight to protect your life, also once. Really, what can you do if they decide this is as much as they're willing to give and why should they keep giving? (other than your desire for personal army to let you do as you please)

Modifié par tmp7704, 09 décembre 2009 - 11:36 .

[Darth_Trethon]

It's ***common knowledge***.....IE anyone important can confirm it. And the nobles are more than willing to accept her.....except Eamon who wants to have Alistair as a puppet on the throne. YES that is fact. Anora ruled....it's not like it's hard to figure out when you see Cailan act like a childish idiot.

[Asante81]

It's common knowledge too that the Grey Wardens are traitors. Does it make it more true then?

Have you ever played the non-Anora supporting version? Trust me, they are more than willing to accept Alistair... and Alistair + PC.... they're accepting ANYONE who wins the landsmeet... strange, isn't it?

[Ulyn]

We don't see Anora's "credulity or perceptiveness" or "strength or weakness" during Logain's regency; again, his treason wasn't "obvious" to many game characters who weren't also Logain's daughter.



And judging the visceral dislike of Anora as Queen in terms of other people's visceral dislike of Alistair as King seems especially futile. The game makes it perfectly clear that under the right circumstances they're both:



A: acceptable and

B: competent

[Taleroth]

Asante81 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

And, we learned something new about women, didn't we?

Always check for knives.

That wasn't what I meant... but yes...

Now for your to learn something about men.

*secretly sharpens her hidden knives*

[Darth_Trethon]

Asante81 wrote...

It's common knowledge too that the Grey Wardens are traitors. Does it make it more true then?
Have you ever played the non-Anora supporting version? Trust me, they are more than willing to accept Alistair... and Alistair + PC.... they're accepting ANYONE who wins the landsmeet... strange, isn't it?

The people were happy and she made good decissions or they wouldn't have trusted her. Eamon even tells you she was the power behind the trhone if you inquire. The fact remains that she DID earn the respcect of foreign nations....and maintained peace with the one bent on conquest. As for accepting Alistair....for the moment they do but he does not rule afterwards so he's a puppet figure. Would they still follow him after the bilght if he intended to act as king? That's highly questionable. There is plenty of evidence that shows this particular codex to be correct.

[Asante81]

Taleroth wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

And, we learned something new about women, didn't we?

Always check for knives.

That wasn't what I meant... but yes...

Now for your to learn something about men.

*secretly sharpens her hidden knives*

*laughs*
Do you want to marry me?

[Taleroth]

Asante81 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

And, we learned something new about women, didn't we?

Always check for knives.

That wasn't what I meant... but yes...

Now for your to learn something about men.

*secretly sharpens her hidden knives*

*laughs*
Do you want to marry me?

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.  You haven't even stabbed me, yet.

[Darth_Trethon]

Ulyn wrote...

We don't see Anora's "credulity or perceptiveness" or "strength or weakness" during Logain's regency; again, his treason wasn't "obvious" to many game characters who weren't also Logain's daughter.

And judging the visceral dislike of Anora as Queen in terms of other people's visceral dislike of Alistair as King seems especially futile. The game makes it perfectly clear that under the right circumstances they're both:

A: acceptable and
B: competent

Alistair is highly respected by the common people....IE not anyone important and he does not rule....that is highly questionable....I don't see that as any indication of Alistair's competence. Does the game make it "clear" he is competent.......absolutely not.

Anora is described as making great decisions with one relatively small fallout with the alienage but still she is shown greatly helping the country recover and governing.....that seems far more competent than Alistair's end.

[Kohaku]

Taleroth wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

And, we learned something new about women, didn't we?

Always check for knives.

That wasn't what I meant... but yes...

Now for your to learn something about men.

*secretly sharpens her hidden knives*

*laughs*
Do you want to marry me?

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.  You haven't even stabbed me, yet.

Stab him girl. I'm convinced he's a keeper.

[Curlain]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

It's ***common knowledge***.....IE anyone important can confirm it. And the nobles are more than willing to accept her.....except Eamon who wants to have Alistair as a puppet on the throne. YES that is fact. Anora ruled....it's not like it's hard to figure out when you see Cailan act like a childish idiot.

To be fair, does Cailan act like a childish idiot, he makes one reference to glory on the battle field besides Duncan (not that suprising in a young reletively unblooded warrior who had yet to see real combat), and even this could be essential to keep his men's moral high, common strategy in early armies, if they see their king/commander supremely confident and unphased they tend to take strength from this.  However I'll admit it's probably a bit of idealism of Calian's part.

But in actly planning the battle, he makes the actually sensible suggestion, which he had clearly waited before for Orliasian support (which strengthens the army's position) it's Loghain locked in his intense hatred, and not based on clear stategic thinking, that shoots the idea down.  Besides that Calian listens closely to Loghain's plan and doesn't pretend to know he is a better commander then the celebrated Loghain but is quite willing to accept  his greater experience (hardly childish in my opinion).  Of course this turned out to be a bad idea.

Is Cailian young and inxexperience at the time of Ostragar?  Yes.  Was he actually being childish, I don't think so

Modifié par Curlain, 09 décembre 2009 - 11:56 .

[Asante81]

Taleroth wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

And, we learned something new about women, didn't we?

Always check for knives.

That wasn't what I meant... but yes...

Now for your to learn something about men.

*secretly sharpens her hidden knives*

*laughs*
Do you want to marry me?

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.  You haven't even stabbed me, yet.

Pfff... I'm not going to stab you when you're EXPECTING it. Isn't any fun, is it?

[Darth_Trethon]

Curlain wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

It's ***common knowledge***.....IE anyone important can confirm it. And the nobles are more than willing to accept her.....except Eamon who wants to have Alistair as a puppet on the throne. YES that is fact. Anora ruled....it's not like it's hard to figure out when you see Cailan act like a childish idiot.

To be fair, does Cailan act like a childish idiot, he makes one reference to glory on the battle field besides Duncan (not that suprising in a young reletively unblooded warrior who had yet to see real combat), and even this could be essential to keep his men's moral high, common strategy in early armies, if they see their king/commander supremely confident and unphased they tend to take strength from this.  However I'll admit it's probably a bit of idealism of Calian's part.

But in actly planning the battle, he makes the actually sensible suggestion, which he had clearly waited before for Orliasian support (which strengthens the army's position) it's Loghain looked in his intense hatred, and not based on clear stategic thinking, that shoots the idea down.  Besides that Calian listens closely to Loghain's plan and doesn't pretend to know he is a better commander then the celebrated Loghain but is quite willing to accept  his greater experience (hardly childish in my opinion).  Of course this turned out to be a bad idea.

Is Cailian young and inxexperience at the time of Ostragar?  Yes.  Was he actually being childish, I don't think so

Orlesians=extremely bad idea. I have no doubt at all that Cailan's recomendation to get orlesian suppert was foolish. It's like inviting the wolves in your house to drive out the mice. Read the book the stolen throne to see what orlesians are all about and how loghain earned his reputation as general by defeating them.

[Curlain]

Have read it, and it was Maric who began initating peace with the Orlaisians (who was there right with Loghian fighting them). The darkspawn threaten everyone, if they take over in Ferelden, then Orlais will be next, so it has just as much reason to see the darkspawn gone. With the Felerden army around them, and other forces throughout Ferelden I don't see the Orliasn force on it's own taking over Ferelden. But Loghain in his grown paranoia saw everything as an Orlaisian plot (even the Grey Wardens), he was never able to get over the rape and murder of his mother, and for him even the remote possiblity of Orlais re-occupation took precidence over everything, even the actual, very real and worse threat of the Blight occuring in the middle of Ferelden

[Kohaku]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Asante81 wrote...

It's common knowledge too that the Grey Wardens are traitors. Does it make it more true then?
Have you ever played the non-Anora supporting version? Trust me, they are more than willing to accept Alistair... and Alistair + PC.... they're accepting ANYONE who wins the landsmeet... strange, isn't it?

The people were happy and she made good decissions or they wouldn't have trusted her. Eamon even tells you she was the power behind the trhone if you inquire. The fact remains that she DID earn the respcect of foreign nations....and maintained peace with the one bent on conquest. As for accepting Alistair....for the moment they do but he does not rule afterwards so he's a puppet figure. Would they still follow him after the bilght if he intended to act as king? That's highly questionable. There is plenty of evidence that shows this particular codex to be correct.

I'm not involved in this whole debate but I am tired of you and your circle jerking.

No where in the ending I got for him imply that he doesn't rule. It says that doesn't like it. Nowhere does it say that only the commoners like him. It said he was popular. That could mean everyone. That could mean the rats. It does say the commoners said he ruled with a common touch.

Modifié par Kerridan Kaiba, 10 décembre 2009 - 12:03 .