294 réponses à ce sujet

[thesnake777]

We may hear from them if EC is well received. Honestly though I don't care. I don't put much stock in them.

[Dean_the_Young]

sw04ca wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

sw04ca wrote...
And your argument was a classic example of the petitio principii fallacy.

Hey, I can speak Latin too!

With italics, no less!

That's the proper way to do it.  Latin and warship names should always be in italics, wouldn't you say?

Recte!

[DrNick1221]

Nah. they are too busy still going on about ARTISTIC VISIONS and SPECULATION!

[soulprovider]

 There preparing for a new wave of rage when it becomes known that liara is the one indoctrinated and have been leading shepard down a path to aid the reapers since the first game, and that the whole priority earth sequence and the ending was her trying her hardest to warn shepard about what the reapers truly planned with the last vestiges of her sanity before she lost full control to the reapers indoctrination techniques.

Hey its plausible, is it going to happen, I'd say its as likely as the indoctrination theory being correct and that is to say 30% chance.

A friend of mine said this and its proving more and more true by ever given moment that these two refuse to talk to the fans, its almost like they were told that ME3 needed to have a political agenda forced into the game since the game was almost complete they had to find a way to incorporate said political agend, my friend thinks its the statist agend the most intelligent races needing to be wiped out or brought down to the level of other races so everyone was on the same level and progress could not occur.

Honestly I would just shrug it off as ramblings of a history major but what he says makes too much sense and explains the disappearance..

[ArchDuck]

sw04ca wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...
And the fanbase wouldn't  be so insulting if they would be more responsive.

Yeah, because you can definitely trust people not to be dicks to other people on the internet.

Flawed ad hominem logic is fail.

And your argument was a classic example of the petitio principii fallacy.

Hey, I can speak Latin too!

You mean because I said "catch 22"? I'm not certain you are attributing the right fallacy to my comment. (See this link for examples which I'm not certain my previous post fits the same pattern.) 

I wasn't trying to "speak latin" just use the correct term. I would also note that you are coming across as a bit passive aggressive. It is late and if I am reading to much into your word choice I apologize.

Mine wasn't supposed to be a stand alone statement but a comment on the fact that the original statement was as unprovable as the one I made.

[Torrible]

VibrantYacht wrote...

Nope. There is a problem here. First I would like to address the links in your description, then I will address what you said in your post. The "Socratic Debate between a Paragon and a Renegade." Immediately things go haywire as the anti-ender/retaker/entitled whiner/whatever-you-call-people-who-dislike-the-ending is put into the role of the Renegade. This creates immediate bias towards a particular side. I can't address every point in that link. Suffice it to say there is no way this can have any merit in an argument regardless of which side it favors. 

 

I didn't write the article so I can't speak for the author's intentions but the Renegade label befits the anti-enders as they are more aggressive and more willing to do whatever it takes to achieve their goals. At least that's the way I see it.

The third link of youtube posts has the same problem as the first link. It is immediately biased. It doesn't take into account that there are other videos out there that say things contrary to what is being said there. Now I'd like to pause for a moment as I realize that going into something without bias is basically impossible. I don't believe you can ever truly put aside what you think, however, there are respectful ways to go about doing something. I'm not denying that some anti-enders aren't guilty of being disrespectful, but this link doesn't do much to help your cause.

These are ALL the youtube reviews I can find that are 

1) not solely a critique of the ending (more holistic)
2) non gaming media

Do a search yourself. Don't take my word for it.

Alright, last link, being the false consensus link. I'm curious as to why you still hold this belief after EA sent out an e-mail saying that Mass Effect 3's ending has created the biggest video game controversy of all time (or something along those lines. If a link is needed, I shall do my best to find one). To me, that's a good indication that this is not just a vocal minority.

False consensus (just like confirmation bias) is a ubiquitous phenomenon. I'm not saying that all claims to a majority view are automatically false as that'd be just ridiculous. However, the tendency to assume that one's opinion is widely shared by the consumer base or the propensity to overestimate the extent that another individual agree with one's view cannot be overstated. The typical BSN user (long time customer of Bioware, loves role-playing, high-interest in mass effect lore)  is not reflective of the casual gaming, non forum going crowd (the actual silent majority).

Alright. On to your actual post. I take it you were trying to be satirical. However you are targetting what are essentially overzealous anti-enders and in some points you are just being truthful.

In your first point you satirically call Casey and Mac liars and cowards. The liars thing is actually sort of true. If you look at pre-release quotes (and these aren't quotes that were made a year in advance) you see that a lot of what they said did not come to pass within the game. For example one of them (I believe it was Mac) said that the Rachni choice in ME1 would have huge consequences in ME3. It does not. The Rachni exist regardless of your choice in ME1. As for the cowards remark, I disagree (though I know others think this). I think they really don't have a legitimate reason to come on here until after the EC is done (if even then). So that's all I have to say about that.

Next point... I have very little knowledge in the world of stocks and what have you (something I need to work on) so I can't really comment there... Though I can say your "100 copies of DA3" remark is hugely exaggerated (even from a satirical standpoint).

Then you talk about how angering your fanbase has consequences. I don't see how it doesn't have consequences, honestly. If your customers lose trust in your product, they stop buying said product. This sort of leads into your next point of turning in all BW games currently owned. In all honesty, I don't see a problem with this either. I've thought about returning ME3. You return games you have no desire to play again... currently, I have no desire to play ME3 again.

Last point seems to satirically claim that 1 fan is nothing among the many. But I think many fans are willing to abandon BioWre. Think of it in terms of ME3: 1 Cannibal may be nothing, but many are... painful.

You already stated that my post is satirical. Of course it can be easily picked apart (although I feel oddly touched that you'd spent all that time responding to it). Anyway, it's supposed to parody the obsence level of self-importance of a very 'specific' class of anti-enders. It's not really about whether there is any level of truth/consequence to their opinion/behaviour. 

[Torrible]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Everyone here is guilty of some sort of bull****, myself included. It doesn't matter whether you are Pro or Anti ending, both sides are in just as much bile as the other. One is simply more vocal, the other is more passive aggressive.

Both sides are at fault.

Agree to a certain extent. I do feel that the anti-enders are at a greater fault (for reasons better not elaborated for now) although that might be a case of special pleading.

Modifié par Torrible, 16 mai 2012 - 09:38 .

[TweedleDee66]

Who really cares if we ever hear from them again?
If so would you believe a word they say in the first place?

There is an old saying “Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.”. They certainly fooled everyone with this rushed game with the crapzilla ending, so why would I even dare think that this extended cut ending would even be good or that they actually give a crap about anything but keeping their jobs right now? They sold out to cater this game to the masses instead of the original fans of the game. Its because of these two that I will likely never buy another BioWare game or buy any more downloadable content.

Yes, there is a lot of hate in my posting since these two are the ones responsible for the game we got and in know way was in close to being as good as ME1 or ME2.

Also:

KotorEffect3 wrote...

They would be more responsive if the fanbase wasn't so insulting towards them.

Maybe so, but when have they actually said anything to us in the first place that wasn’t full of half truths covered in more promises that will likely be broken. They don’t even post in their own companies forums (to the best I can tell), they have one of the lead moderators to it for them to relay what they want said. They deserve the mistrust they are getting.

Modifié par TweedleDee66, 16 mai 2012 - 09:05 .

[OriginalNameGuy]

What is the point? They can let the Extended cut speak for them and besides the fanbase would just act like jerks and run them off.

[Renessa]

Why should we care? Now?

One or two weeks after the proverbial hit the fan would have been the time for some sort of explanation or clarification. All we got was silence, then insults and then two months later some PR speak. The way they handled this desaster has turned me off Bioware more than the endings.

I still hope we will hear from Hudson and especially Walters about their future projects, so I know what to avoid.

[sw04ca]

ArchDuck wrote...
You mean because I said "catch 22"? I'm not certain you are attributing the right fallacy to my comment. (See this link for examples which I'm not certain my previous post fits the same pattern.) 

No.  When you said 'And the fanbase wouldn't  be so insulting if they would be more responsive.', you were begging the question of whether their level of responsiveness was the cause of internet insults.  I suppose you could also look at it as a case of post hoc ergo prompter hoc.

[CrazyRah]

I actually prefer if they don't say anything. I only need to hear what projects they might be working on so i can avoid them or buy them on sale

[SimonTheFrog]

Yeah as far as i care they can stay silent. It's better that way. Recently almost all they said was either direct lies or shameless exaggerations.
Who would believe any word they said now?

Sinsere acknowledgement and apologies would be welcomed, though. It's actually the right thing to do to start regaining the customers trust once a company has lost it.

[TheChris92]

David7204 wrote...

Not until the Extended Cut is out.

As it should be.

I read that in the "Coca-Cola-Zero-Guy's" voice.

[ArchDuck]

sw04ca wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...
You mean because I said "catch 22"? I'm not certain you are attributing the right fallacy to my comment. (See this link for examples which I'm not certain my previous post fits the same pattern.) 

No.  When you said 'And the fanbase wouldn't  be so insulting if they would be more responsive.', you were begging the question of whether their level of responsiveness was the cause of internet insults.  I suppose you could also look at it as a case of post hoc ergo prompter hoc.

That one seems much better.

[Drake-Shepard]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

1.Find where either one lives.
2.Stalk them till they go to a bar.
3.Buy them a drink.
4.Get him drunk enough to talk about the ending.

See there you go.

when i read step 1. i thought you were heading for a banning llol

[fr33stylez]

Not much they can say now. Rather than trying to explain the ending and defend their reasoning, they decided to announce that they were creating the EC for the summer, something that wasn't oringally planned. Which just feeds into the belief that they released an unfinished game and hoped no one would notice.

"Waiting for the EC" has nothing to do with them not explaining the game that is released and sold RIGHT NOW. If they were proud of the endings they should share their viewpoints.

They don't even need to answer the criticisms (and insults) directed at them. They just need to explain their work.

Modifié par fr33stylez, 16 mai 2012 - 02:53 .

[Mordanticus]

AntonioA9011 wrote...

Considering that they both lied through their teeth and hyped this game up to astronomical levels, I doubt they would say anything further regarding this game. They will probably say something in 2014 snide regarding this whole debacle when the whole thing fizzles out, but probably not now. Not while the heat is still high and people are very angry.

I'm going to agree with Antonio wholeheartedly on this statement.. The heat may have died down, but this issue is still a powder-keg ready to go off.. and the lies before release are just more fuel for the fire.. They bought themselves some time to make this right, so hopefully they use the time well..

[marshkoala]

@Lopez 23 I know I shouldn't have laughed(cause no one deserves so disrespected) but I did....

[NedPepper]

CrazyRah wrote...

I actually prefer if they don't say anything. I only need to hear what projects they might be working on so i can avoid them or buy them on sale

So, you've loved everything they've done until the ending....and now you must avoid them at all costs.  That just feels...overly reactionary.  This is why they NEED to speak.  Maybe not here.  But somewhere, high profile, where the issues can be addressed in a rational conversation.

I don't get this feeling of betrayal...but I didn't get it either for Dragon Age 2.  I've come to the conclusion that I look at gaming very differently than most people on this forum.  The end result should be...did you enjoy playing the game, despite little things that irked you?  And the answer for me is yes.  So, I'm having a hard time understanding this rage.  I feel objectively, endings aside, ME3 is a very well produced, fun game. 

So the question becomes...outside of the endings, did anyone enjoy playing the damn game?

[NedPepper]

fr33stylez wrote...

Not much they can say now. Rather than trying to explain the ending and defend their reasoning, they decided to announce that they were creating the EC for the summer, something that wasn't oringally planned. Which just feeds into the belief that they released an unfinished game and hoped no one would notice.

Or it proves they really were disappointed that many people didn't like the ending and felt like they should try and make some kind of amends.  Why so cynical?  Do your really get a selfish, greedy, jerkish vibe from Casey Hudson?  Because I really don't.  Just from interviews, he's seems a low key, decent dude. 

Modifié par nedpepper, 16 mai 2012 - 06:07 .

[Zuka999]

nedpepper wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

Not much they can say now. Rather than trying to explain the ending and defend their reasoning, they decided to announce that they were creating the EC for the summer, something that wasn't oringally planned. Which just feeds into the belief that they released an unfinished game and hoped no one would notice.

Or it proves they really were disappointed that many people didn't like the ending and felt like they should try and make some kind of amends.  Why so cynical?  Do your really get a selfish, greedy, jerkish vibe from Casey Hudson?  Because I really don't.  Just from interviews, he's seems a low key, decent dude. 

I sort of agree that I don't get a malicious vibe from the guy, or Mac for that matter, which is why it just completely blows my mind that they both lied through their teeth in pre-release interviews. Mr. Weekes already said that Casey Hudson has no issues appreciating a non-emotional twist ending, and that is part of the problem because clearly that isn't what the Mass Effect fanbase likes at all. Casey at least mostly gets it, there is a reason he is more of an ideas guy than a writer.

Mac Walters on the other hand, as cool as he may be, I just don't feel like his writing style jives with most of the Mass Effect fans. A lot of people have noticed that the stuff he writes doesn't fit in entirely with the feeling of the rest of the trilogy, myself included.

[fr33stylez]

nedpepper wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

Not much they can say now. Rather than trying to explain the ending and defend their reasoning, they decided to announce that they were creating the EC for the summer, something that wasn't oringally planned. Which just feeds into the belief that they released an unfinished game and hoped no one would notice.

Or it proves they really were disappointed that many people didn't like the ending and felt like they should try and make some kind of amends.  Why so cynical?  Do your really get a selfish, greedy, jerkish vibe from Casey Hudson?  Because I really don't.  Just from interviews, he's seems a low key, decent dude. 

Never said anything about Hudson being a selfish jerk (I don't know him), but that doesn't change the fact that a relatively decent dude can screw up sometimes. And i'm pretty sure they've come out on numerous occasions and said "we're happy with our product". Which is fine, but one would expect they've come out by now explaining their motives and giving us more insight on the areas so many people find so controversal. Honestly, I would've respected this more than coming out with the EC - how can you be happy with the product, say nothing regarding it, then tell the public you've decided to create an extended ending?

[Taboo]

To be honest I blame Walters for most of this. Hudson can make great games.

But the moment Walters become the lead writer.

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.