294 réponses à ce sujet

[The Invisible Commando]

Njald wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

AntonioA9011 wrote...
Really? ME3 is doing well when it's price dropped to $29.99 in some markets? Meanwhile, Elder of Scrolls V: Skyrim is still at it's original price of $59.99 and that game was released six months ago?

ME3 may have did well initially, but as soon as the negative word of mouth about the ending spread like wildfire, all hope was lost.

The game has turned a profit.  That's the goal, so they won.

IP damage and brand loyality loss isn't without cost. The reason EA buys companies/developers is because these have a history of making good products and they have interesting IPs. If EA keeps destroying those assets for quick turnaround they probably have a failing business model. Stockmarket agrees with this sentiment.   
 

You all don't get it. Madden 2999 will make profits for EA. Not going broke anytime soon. If the name 'Bioware' is death to game sales, EA will just desolve them. EA will find a way to make money even if they can't off the RPG market anymore. The multiplayer microtransactions market is clearly their focus.

[Illusive]

I think they're waiting to let the Extended Cut speak for itself. Nothing they say beforehand will accomplish anything.

[TheWerdna]

Zuka999 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Not until the Extended Cut is out.

As it should be.

The logical thing to believe is that they are writing the Extended Cut like they wrote the original ending, though. And we all know how that turned out. Are they directing this, as well? Why should I trust that it will be any good if I don't hear anything from them? Even the most basic defense of what they were going for?

I believe a bunch of the other Mass Effect writers confermed they were back to writing for ME3  on the same day the EC was anounced. So it looks like all the writers are actually going to have input.

[MegaSovereign]

The same people responsible for Tuchanka plot are working on the EC.

Have a little faith.

[paul165]

nedpepper wrote...

Here's a tip. Being hostile towards them is not going to get them to respond.

Do they need to step foward like Damon Lindelof of Lost or Stephen King's and the Dark Tower did and DEFEND their choices? I think so. But it has to be a healthy, non-hostile conversation, and I'm not sure this forum is capable of that.

It probably (well mostly) was way back in mid March before all the 'artistic integrity' statements and the 'whiner' statements and my personal favourite 'you just don't understand our genius' statements. But as a company they chose to fort up and attack the fanbase rather than deal with the complaints to which the fandom responded in a predictable if tired way by going along with it producing the current extremely unhealthy 'us vs. them' displayed pretty much everywhere I've seen ME3 shown up (here, metacritic, youtube, amazon etc).

The stupid thing is given DA2  they have experience in dealing with angry customers and handled that far better - hell it's notable the only devs still on the boards are part of the DA2 team.
.

[Sublyminal]

sw04ca wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...
Wasn't trying to be rude to anyone, just dislike when people try to justify these two ignoring the very people that made them famous, by saying the game made a profit. When in all actuality it didn't if anything it lost money and will continue to lose money. EAs stock wouldn't have dropped almost 3$ if one of their best games made them a profit.

The market as it relates to gaming companies is a lot more complex than you seem to think.  The fundamental weakness of EA, EA's diminishing relevance in the casual market, their poor marketing strategy or the fact that Origin has been pretty underwhelming so far have all been bigger factors than the success or failure of any single game, even AAA titles like Battlefield or Mass Effect.

The writers don't owe you anything because you feel that you made them famous.  That's stalker talk.

No the writers owe us everything because THEY themselves said this is a game being created with the help of the gaming community. And trust me as someone who has stock in EA (that is losing money daily, I might add) has a lot to do with how well their products do. Need an example? back when I bought the stock it was going at over $17 per share, that was a week before  ME3 launched. The minute the endings started making news, the stock tanked and continues to do so to this day. Oh goody, I lost another .25 or so cent per share. 

I invested in them for the soul purpose of doubling my money, now it looks like I'm going to have to seriously consider selling at  $14 a share and losing close to $4 per. For better or for worse, the ending outrage to ME3 has caused this stock to tank.

[Sublyminal]

sw04ca wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...
Do you realize how much it costs to really turn a profit on a blockbuster like this? Since most games now cost in the high 30s to make. Then you have to adverttise, then you have to factor in everything else. Now, include the 100 or so thousand copies returned to videogame retailers and that's just the US alone.

There is massive overhead in game devving. Even with the day 1 dlc assuming most people didn't just buy the collectors edition, is not enough to push them into a noticeable profit if there was any at all.

I know exactly how much it costs to make a AAA title like Mass Effect 3.  I stand by my statement.

Then you stand by a fallacy good sir or maam.

[VibrantYacht]

Torrible wrote...

AntonioA9011 wrote...

Torrible wrote...

 I'm going to roleplay a bit here.

They are liars and cowards. Don't they realise that with every thread created to voice our displeasure, the EA stocks drop a few dollars? If they are not careful, they will find it hard to even sell 100 copies of DA3. Anger your fanbase and you will pay. History has proven this. I'm officially giving up on Bioware. Going to return all my Bioware games, even BG2. Let's see how well Bioware can cope without me. 

I just puked in my mouth saying that.

Too subtle?

Nope. There is a problem here. First I would like to address the links in your description, then I will address what you said in your post. The "Socratic Debate between a Paragon and a Renegade." Immediately things go haywire as the anti-ender/retaker/entitled whiner/whatever-you-call-people-who-dislike-the-ending is put into the role of the Renegade. This creates immediate bias towards a particular side. I can't address every point in that link. Suffice it to say there is no way this can have any merit in an argument regardless of which side it favors.

Second link: Pro-Ending Compendium thread... actually... that is a large post that I largely have no problems with. The poster was polite and stating their opinion in a respectful and humble manner.

The third link of youtube posts has the same problem as the first link. It is immediately biased. It doesn't take into account that there are other videos out there that say things contrary to what is being said there. Now I'd like to pause for a moment as I realize that going into something without bias is basically impossible. I don't believe you can ever truly put aside what you think, however, there are respectful ways to go about doing something. I'm not denying that some anti-enders aren't guilty of being disrespectful, but this link doesn't do much to help your cause.

Alright, last link, being the false consensus link. I'm curious as to why you still hold this belief after EA sent out an e-mail saying that Mass Effect 3's ending has created the biggest video game controversy of all time (or something along those lines. If a link is needed, I shall do my best to find one). To me, that's a good indication that this is not just a vocal minority.

Alright. On to your actual post. I take it you were trying to be satirical. However you are targetting what are essentially overzealous anti-enders and in some points you are just being truthful.

In your first point you satirically call Casey and Mac liars and cowards. The liars thing is actually sort of true. If you look at pre-release quotes (and these aren't quotes that were made a year in advance) you see that a lot of what they said did not come to pass within the game. For example one of them (I believe it was Mac) said that the Rachni choice in ME1 would have huge consequences in ME3. It does not. The Rachni exist regardless of your choice in ME1. As for the cowards remark, I disagree (though I know others think this). I think they really don't have a legitimate reason to come on here until after the EC is done (if even then). So that's all I have to say about that.

Next point... I have very little knowledge in the world of stocks and what have you (something I need to work on) so I can't really comment there... Though I can say your "100 copies of DA3" remark is hugely exaggerated (even from a satirical standpoint).

Then you talk about how angering your fanbase has consequences. I don't see how it doesn't have consequences, honestly. If your customers lose trust in your product, they stop buying said product. This sort of leads into your next point of turning in all BW games currently owned. In all honesty, I don't see a problem with this either. I've thought about returning ME3. You return games you have no desire to play again... currently, I have no desire to play ME3 again.

Last point seems to satirically claim that 1 fan is nothing among the many. But I think many fans are willing to abandon BioWare. Think of it in terms of ME3: 1 Cannibal may be nothing, but many are... painful.

I can't think off a good way to end this post (ironically)... I'll just-- THE END.

[FodoSatoru]

They won't come forward and defend their decisions, because they don't have reasons for their "creative" choices that the fanbase would accept. They would have to lie again and that would make the whole situation even worse.

[Sublyminal]

AntonioA9011 wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...

AntonioA9011 wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...

The game didn't turn a profit. How many people got refunds from amazon, gamestop and even origin. Everyone who says bu bu the game turned a profit are being moronic. Who do you think has to reimburse amazon and gamestop, etc for returned games? That's right EA.

You know, I wanted to say that, but I thought it would be rude.  I just let people live in denial/their own fantasy worlds. Live and let live I always say, but thanks for clarifying that.  

Wasn't trying to be rude to anyone, just dislike when people try to justify these two ignoring the very people that made them famous, by saying the game made a profit. When in all actuality it didn't if anything it lost money and will continue to lose money. EAs stock wouldn't have dropped almost 3$ if one of their best games made them a profit.

I wasn't trying to insuniate that you were being rude to anyone. I know that if I were to say it, it would have come off as rude and condescending, so I didn't say anything at all. People like to ignore the cold, hard facts when it's convenient for them. I didn't know the stock of EA dropped $3. I've also heard that Casey Hudson had a lot riding on ME3 with future projects and funding, somebody on here was telling me. It's kinda crazy that all of that is going to go out of the window now.

Yea, EA's stock has dropped $3 per share since the ending fiasco. And is currently down to $14.31 per share. Mark my words, when it hits in the $11 per share range, the board is gonna fire the current CEO.

[Necrotron]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The same people responsible for Tuchanka plot are working on the EC.

Have a little faith.

It is hard to have faith in an extended cut which has been stated by the creators that it will change nearly nothing that caused to outrage against the original ending in the first place, but will only add more closure and clarity to the original vision.

It will just be the same ending again, but now with a telling of what happened to your squadmates, some technobabble as to why the dextrose based species don't starve while stranded above Earth, etc. etc.  It won't change the fundamental problems with the ending because they stated they will not change the choices the players are given, nor remove/rewrite the catalyst scene.

Modifié par Bathaius, 15 mai 2012 - 11:46 .

[NedPepper]

ediskrad327 wrote...

unless they admit they screwed up there is nothing they can say to make the situation better

Then you will never be satisfied.  I'll tell as a writer; just because you don't like my ending, doesn't mean I have to admit that I somehow couldn't live up to YOUR personal expectations and because of that, my work is a failure.  Never happen.  The most I would do is say, "I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it.  I hope you enjoy the next one."  And if that's not good enough....

Demanding them to lay down on their swords is a ridiculous notion and the very essence of this entitlement argument.

But that's just me.

[FodoSatoru]

Bathaius wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The same people responsible for Tuchanka plot are working on the EC.

Have a little faith.

It is hard to have faith in an extended cut which has been stated to change nearly nothing that caused to outrage against the original ending in the first place.

Many people are upset because the endings are cryptic and without much visual variety. They are going to change that. Also, there is a good chance they will include some scenes with war assets in action, which is another aspect fans complain about.

[Baa Baa]

They are being hunted down by the Expendables as we speak

[Drogonion]

I'm very curious to see if these two folks are still in charge of the ME narrative, specifically if they are in charge of the Ending DLC narrative. If they are, that probably pretty much tells you what you need to know. No disrespect, but the Ending DLC needs a new set of eyes on it.

[Necrotron]

Sublyminal wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...
Wasn't trying to be rude to anyone, just dislike when people try to justify these two ignoring the very people that made them famous, by saying the game made a profit. When in all actuality it didn't if anything it lost money and will continue to lose money. EAs stock wouldn't have dropped almost 3$ if one of their best games made them a profit.

The market as it relates to gaming companies is a lot more complex than you seem to think.  The fundamental weakness of EA, EA's diminishing relevance in the casual market, their poor marketing strategy or the fact that Origin has been pretty underwhelming so far have all been bigger factors than the success or failure of any single game, even AAA titles like Battlefield or Mass Effect.

The writers don't owe you anything because you feel that you made them famous.  That's stalker talk.

No the writers owe us everything because THEY themselves said this is a game being created with the help of the gaming community. And trust me as someone who has stock in EA (that is losing money daily, I might add) has a lot to do with how well their products do. Need an example? back when I bought the stock it was going at over $17 per share, that was a week before  ME3 launched. The minute the endings started making news, the stock tanked and continues to do so to this day. Oh goody, I lost another .25 or so cent per share. 

I invested in them for the soul purpose of doubling my money, now it looks like I'm going to have to seriously consider selling at  $14 a share and losing close to $4 per. For better or for worse, the ending outrage to ME3 has caused this stock to tank.

Considering how much speculation goes into stock prices, now would not be a time to sell EA stock.

The speculation is bad, but really, EA is a pretty well established company, highly visible (thus, having a more wimsical affect on stock price relating to news), and will likely continue to do well and rebound the future.    Mass Effect 3 was expected to do well (hence a high price prior to it's release) and a drop in stock price after massive negative feedback is to be expected.  The thing is, EA is still well established for great future earnings.  Yes, they had a bad game, and yes, consumer confidence in their games is lower now, but I would hold on to that stock myself until a better time to sell.  No point in taking a loss just because of short term results.  People will forgot that they earned the 'worst company in America' quickly, and the price will rebound because frankly, EA is one of the few companies capable of producing many of these high budget games and will likely have more hits in the future.

It will likley rebound at some point.  I wouldn't sell now myself.

[NedPepper]

paul165 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

Here's a tip. Being hostile towards them is not going to get them to respond.

Do they need to step foward like Damon Lindelof of Lost or Stephen King's and the Dark Tower did and DEFEND their choices? I think so. But it has to be a healthy, non-hostile conversation, and I'm not sure this forum is capable of that.

It probably (well mostly) was way back in mid March before all the 'artistic integrity' statements and the 'whiner' statements and my personal favourite 'you just don't understand our genius' statements. But as a company they chose to fort up and attack the fanbase rather than deal with the complaints to which the fandom responded in a predictable if tired way by going along with it producing the current extremely unhealthy 'us vs. them' displayed pretty much everywhere I've seen ME3 shown up (here, metacritic, youtube, amazon etc).

The stupid thing is given DA2  they have experience in dealing with angry customers and handled that far better - hell it's notable the only devs still on the boards are part of the DA2 team.
.

WIth all the interviews I've read, I have never got a "us vs. them" mentality.    I think the "artistiic integrity" and "whiner" stuff actuallly  came from....other forum members defending the game.  Not the devs themselves.  Then again, I could be wrong.

And I addressed how the DA2 team is active.  But it took a while.  There was a long period where they admitted it would probably be better to NOT RESPOND to the venom rather getting into spats with the fanbase.  When the angry trolls left, they came back and had civil conversations with longtime fans and asked where they wanted to see the franchise go.  Granted, DA is a different animal than ME. 

[Zuka999]

FodoSatoru wrote...

Bathaius wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The same people responsible for Tuchanka plot are working on the EC.

Have a little faith.

It is hard to have faith in an extended cut which has been stated to change nearly nothing that caused to outrage against the original ending in the first place.

Many people are upset because the endings are cryptic and without much visual variety. They are going to change that. Also, there is a good chance they will include some scenes with war assets in action, which is another aspect fans complain about.

How can this possibly fix the things they did at the end which can only be explained by magic and handwaving? How can this make up for the terrible presentation of the Catalyst? Unless they change those things drastically they will always be terrible. The worst thing about it is that this was written exclusively by Mac and Casey without input, and now the team has to work around it and try to make it make sense somehow. You don't do that with writing, you always start with a good foundation and build around that. 

If they can pull off fantastic writing based around a terrible foundation, I will be amazed.

[UrgentArchengel]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The same people responsible for Tuchanka plot are working on the EC.

Have a little faith.

Thats all the faith I have.

[Sublyminal]

Bathaius wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...

sw04ca wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...
Wasn't trying to be rude to anyone, just dislike when people try to justify these two ignoring the very people that made them famous, by saying the game made a profit. When in all actuality it didn't if anything it lost money and will continue to lose money. EAs stock wouldn't have dropped almost 3$ if one of their best games made them a profit.

The market as it relates to gaming companies is a lot more complex than you seem to think.  The fundamental weakness of EA, EA's diminishing relevance in the casual market, their poor marketing strategy or the fact that Origin has been pretty underwhelming so far have all been bigger factors than the success or failure of any single game, even AAA titles like Battlefield or Mass Effect.

The writers don't owe you anything because you feel that you made them famous.  That's stalker talk.

No the writers owe us everything because THEY themselves said this is a game being created with the help of the gaming community. And trust me as someone who has stock in EA (that is losing money daily, I might add) has a lot to do with how well their products do. Need an example? back when I bought the stock it was going at over $17 per share, that was a week before  ME3 launched. The minute the endings started making news, the stock tanked and continues to do so to this day. Oh goody, I lost another .25 or so cent per share. 

I invested in them for the soul purpose of doubling my money, now it looks like I'm going to have to seriously consider selling at  $14 a share and losing close to $4 per. For better or for worse, the ending outrage to ME3 has caused this stock to tank.

Considering how much speculation goes into stock prices, now would not be a time to sell EA stock.

The speculation is bad, but really, EA is a pretty well established company, highly visible (thus, having a more wimsical affect on stock price relating to news), and will likely continue to do well and rebound the future.    Mass Effect 3 was expected to do well (hence a high price prior to it's release) and a drop in stock price after massive negative feedback is to be expected.  The thing is, EA is still well established for great future earnings.  Yes, they had a bad game, and yes, consumer confidence in their games is lower now, but I would hold on to that stock myself until a better time to sell.  No point in taking a loss just because of short term results.  People will forgot that they earned the 'worst company in America' quickly, and the price will rebound because frankly, EA is one of the few companies capable of producing many of these high budget games and will likely have more hits in the future.

It will likley rebound at some point.  I wouldn't sell now myself.

I'm gonna have no choice if it keeps losing money. Even though they are well established, with having non-gamers running the company is killing them. They're bleeding money left and right, all because of idiots like John Riccitiello running the show. I made an amatuer mistake with EA even though I've been buying in selling stocks for the better part of 17 years. I bought high thinking that ME3 was going to push it higher and it would have had it not been for the endings. Instead of buying low and now instead of my stock being worth the initial 60k invested it's worth 14k less. So yea, it's hard to keep losing money. 

I'll give it until after the EC is released and see if they somehow manage to pick things back up, if not.... well let's just say I'm going to lose quite a bit of cash. If they can manage to get back about 17, I'm selling instantly.

[Twin_Jaded]

DadeLeviathan wrote...

If I were Casey or Mac I wouldn't touch this form (or any ME forum) with a ten foot pole until the EC comes out. Why? Because regardless of my intentions, I would be eaten alive and end up feeling horrible about myself. 

As they should. If they dont already feel this way then we have a serious problem..

Legion could have really used one of those souls that neither Casey or Mac seem to be using at the moment.

[Sublyminal]

Twin_Jaded wrote...

DadeLeviathan wrote...

If I were Casey or Mac I wouldn't touch this form (or any ME forum) with a ten foot pole until the EC comes out. Why? Because regardless of my intentions, I would be eaten alive and end up feeling horrible about myself. 

As they should. If they dont already feel this way then we have a serious problem..

Legion could have really used one of those souls that neither Casey or Mac seem to be using at the moment.

Like Legion, they should have used more than two processes (writers) to come to consensus.

[Dean_the_Young]

paul165 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

Here's a tip. Being hostile towards them is not going to get them to respond.

Do they need to step foward like Damon Lindelof of Lost or Stephen King's and the Dark Tower did and DEFEND their choices? I think so. But it has to be a healthy, non-hostile conversation, and I'm not sure this forum is capable of that.

It probably (well mostly) was way back in mid March before all the 'artistic integrity' statements and the 'whiner' statements and my personal favourite 'you just don't understand our genius' statements. But as a company they chose to fort up and attack the fanbase rather than deal with the complaints to which the fandom responded in a predictable if tired way by going along with it producing the current extremely unhealthy 'us vs. them' displayed pretty much everywhere I've seen ME3 shown up (here, metacritic, youtube, amazon etc).

The stupid thing is given DA2  they have experience in dealing with angry customers and handled that far better - hell it's notable the only devs still on the boards are part of the DA2 team.
.

March? You mean when the average topic stayed on the the front page for about two minutes because of the endless 'hold the line' spam, when people were raving about supernovas and galactic genocide as the 'only reasonable' interpretation, and so many people began stalking people associated with ME3 and making private and personal attacks that Bioware changed to forum rules?

No, the 'fanbase' on this forum was never capable of meaningful conversation after ME3 came out, even before large parts of it began indulging in conspiracies and actively sought to exagerate statements into something to be offended over.

[NedPepper]

Twin_Jaded wrote...

DadeLeviathan wrote...

If I were Casey or Mac I wouldn't touch this form (or any ME forum) with a ten foot pole until the EC comes out. Why? Because regardless of my intentions, I would be eaten alive and end up feeling horrible about myself. 

As they should. If they dont already feel this way then we have a serious problem..

Legion could have really used one of those souls that neither Casey or Mac seem to be using at the moment.

You're calling them souless because you didn't like the ending of a game....see this is why they won't respond.  How does someone respond to senseless, overly emotional hyperbole?

[Sublyminal]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

paul165 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

Here's a tip. Being hostile towards them is not going to get them to respond.

Do they need to step foward like Damon Lindelof of Lost or Stephen King's and the Dark Tower did and DEFEND their choices? I think so. But it has to be a healthy, non-hostile conversation, and I'm not sure this forum is capable of that.

It probably (well mostly) was way back in mid March before all the 'artistic integrity' statements and the 'whiner' statements and my personal favourite 'you just don't understand our genius' statements. But as a company they chose to fort up and attack the fanbase rather than deal with the complaints to which the fandom responded in a predictable if tired way by going along with it producing the current extremely unhealthy 'us vs. them' displayed pretty much everywhere I've seen ME3 shown up (here, metacritic, youtube, amazon etc).

The stupid thing is given DA2  they have experience in dealing with angry customers and handled that far better - hell it's notable the only devs still on the boards are part of the DA2 team.
.

March? You mean when the average topic stayed on the the front page for about two minutes because of the endless 'hold the line' spam, when people were raving about supernovas and galactic genocide as the 'only reasonable' interpretation, and so many people began stalking people associated with ME3 and making private and personal attacks that Bioware changed to forum rules?

No, the 'fanbase' on this forum was never capable of meaningful conversation after ME3 came out, even before large parts of it began indulging in conspiracies and actively sought to exagerate statements into something to be offended over.

Dunno about you but the warning at the top of my page said March 2nd was the date they changed the forum rules, not March 6th or thereafter. So they knew what was about to happen the whole time. They knew the type of ****storm they were starting.

Here's an idea, hope off their nuts and wipe their spunk out of your eyes and maybe, just maybe you'll be able to see what we see. Damn brown-noser.