235 réponses à ce sujet

[Catamantaloedis]

The Krogan never invaded the Turian colonies before they went to war, as far as I know. The Turians simply declared war on them because of their threat. I dont believe that we have any specifics on the Krogan Rebellion, except that all the races were devastated, so I don't know if you can theorize on what shape any of the races were.

I would hardly trust a race, which overtly engages in imperialism, making vassals of other races, to stay in line once its military dwarfs its opponents by immeasurable odds.

[MisterJB]

As a Cerberus operative, I find this thread offensive. We do not believe ourselves superior to other species, we merely acknowledge they will do whatever it takes to ensure galatic dominance and understand we must do the same.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Catamantaloedis wrote...
Were you saying something? I decided not to read anything you posted. I tend to do that randomly to users for no reason.

see it's comments like that, which make people ""unfairly" label you a troll.

also no response to my gods v. humans comment? I am disappoint, was looking forward to it.

[Catamantaloedis]

MisterJB wrote...

As a Cerberus operative, I find this thread offensive. We do not believe ourselves superior to other species, we merely acknowledge they will do whatever it takes to ensure galatic dominance and understand we must do the same.

I do not believe that humanity is superior either. In fact, I've stated the opposite multiple times. I agree with what you said actually.

[Catamantaloedis]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...
Were you saying something? I decided not to read anything you posted. I tend to do that randomly to users for no reason.

see it's comments like that, which make people ""unfairly" label you a troll.

also no response to my gods v. humans comment? I am disappoint, was looking forward to it.

That's because that comment was incoherent and irrational, so I ignored it. I did read that one however.

[MisterJB]

You consider the krogan to be a mentally inferior species.
After extensive experimentation on captured live subjects, we have determined that this not so. Their brains have, roughly, the same capacity for learning of any other sentient species. Any brutality inherent to the species derivates from their culture.

[Catamantaloedis]

MisterJB wrote...

You consider the krogan to be a mentally inferior species.
After extensive experimentation on captured live subjects, we have determined that this not so. Their brains have, roughly, the same capacity for learning of any other sentient species. Any brutality inherent to the species derivates from their culture.

You're wrong.

[Taboo]

MisterJB wrote...

As a Cerberus operative, I find this thread offensive. We do not believe ourselves superior to other species, we merely acknowledge they will do whatever it takes to ensure galatic dominance and understand we must do the same.

By performing ethically dubious procedures on people in the name of progress. Cerberus is unethical and using such ideals to safeguard yourself is ridiculous.

[MisterJB]

Taboo-XX wrote...
By performing ethically dubious procedures on people in the name of progress. Cerberus is unethical and using such ideals to safeguard yourself is ridiculous.

Black Ops are a necessary evil of foreign politics. The turians have the Black Watch, the salarians the STG, the asari their Commandos, etc. Humanity has Cerberus.
At the time of ME3, the STG is performing live experimentation on kidnapped yahg in an attempt to expand salarian influence. Cerberus just does the same as everyone else.

[Mahrac]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The Krogan never invaded the Turian colonies before they went to war, as far as I know. The Turians simply declared war on them because of their threat. I dont believe that we have any specifics on the Krogan Rebellion, except that all the races were devastated, so I don't know if you can theorize on what shape any of the races were.

I would hardly trust a race, which overtly engages in imperialism, making vassals of other races, to stay in line once its military dwarfs its opponents by immeasurable odds.

http://masseffect.wi...ogan_Rebellions
Krogan invaded other species colonies. The history section of the Turian page claims first contact with the Turians happened after the fighting statrted. And while they are imperialistic, the Volus are their only client race, in a mutually beneficial partnership, at the Volus' request. The turians are the backbone of C-Sec, force already on the Citadel. They are the backbone of the Citadel fleet, can prevent ships from escaping. Every citizen is in the military, and they have the largest fleet. They could take over the galaxy without the Reapers

[garrusfan1]

alright the turians fought the krogan who were pretty much saying to the council I want this planet the council would say okay then they got tired of it started a war and asked the turians for help they were allys with the council so they helped them fight the krogans yes they are militaristic but not to an extreme of trying to conquer everyone else and a diplomatic threat is an understatement of slamming an asteroid into a colony and the asari really are the DIPLOMATIC RACE so they kept prothean tech they shouldn`t have but it is ont heir home world and they weren`t trying to conquer the galaxy with it and once again their peaceful the salarians are smart yes and they are good with military intel but notice they don`t start wars constantely and in case someone brings it up whent the turians attacked the humans activating the dormant relay that was what they were supposed too do so something like the rachni doesn`t get released

[garrusfan1]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The Krogan never invaded the Turian colonies before they went to war, as far as I know. The Turians simply declared war on them because of their threat. I dont believe that we have any specifics on the Krogan Rebellion, except that all the races were devastated, so I don't know if you can theorize on what shape any of the races were.

I would hardly trust a race, which overtly engages in imperialism, making vassals of other races, to stay in line once its military dwarfs its opponents by immeasurable odds.

there is a whole codex entry and several other entrys mention it

[Taboo]

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
By performing ethically dubious procedures on people in the name of progress. Cerberus is unethical and using such ideals to safeguard yourself is ridiculous.

Black Ops are a necessary evil of foreign politics. The turians have the Black Watch, the salarians the STG, the asari their Commandos, etc. Humanity has Cerberus.
At the time of ME3, the STG is performing live experimentation on kidnapped yahg in an attempt to expand salarian influence. Cerberus just does the same as everyone else.

Justifying your actions against the existence of others is just as bad. You cannot use that as a defense. You look foolish.

You're essentially saying "I have to do it to because the Turians are doing it!"

LOL

[TheClonesLegacy]

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
By performing ethically dubious procedures on people in the name of progress. Cerberus is unethical and using such ideals to safeguard yourself is ridiculous.

Black Ops are a necessary evil of foreign politics. The turians have the Black Watch, the salarians the STG, the asari their Commandos, etc. Humanity has Cerberus.
At the time of ME3, the STG is performing live experimentation on kidnapped yahg in an attempt to expand salarian influence. Cerberus just does the same as everyone else.

Thought Humanity had N7...

[Catamantaloedis]

Mahrac wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The Krogan never invaded the Turian colonies before they went to war, as far as I know. The Turians simply declared war on them because of their threat. I dont believe that we have any specifics on the Krogan Rebellion, except that all the races were devastated, so I don't know if you can theorize on what shape any of the races were.

I would hardly trust a race, which overtly engages in imperialism, making vassals of other races, to stay in line once its military dwarfs its opponents by immeasurable odds.

http://masseffect.wi...ogan_Rebellions
Krogan invaded other species colonies. The history section of the Turian page claims first contact with the Turians happened after the fighting statrted. And while they are imperialistic, the Volus are their only client race, in a mutually beneficial partnership, at the Volus' request. The turians are the backbone of C-Sec, force already on the Citadel. They are the backbone of the Citadel fleet, can prevent ships from escaping. Every citizen is in the military, and they have the largest fleet. They could take over the galaxy without the Reapers

It clearly says that Krogan invaded Turian colonies after their war with the Turians began. The Volus are not their only client race, but the only one which is presented in the game. Having the strongest fleet and a military of citizen soldiers, does not mean that they can completely defeat the entire council.

"Still, this only delayed the inevitable. The war would have been lost if not for first contact with the turians ,who responded to krogan threats with a prompt declaration of war. Being on the far side of krogan space from the Council, the turians advanced rapidly into the lightly-defended krogan rear areas. The krogan responded by dropping space stations on turian colonies. Three worlds were rendered completely uninhabitable."
http://masseffect.wi...ogan_Rebellions 

Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 16 mai 2012 - 12:37 .

[garrusfan1]

TheClonesLegacy wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
By performing ethically dubious procedures on people in the name of progress. Cerberus is unethical and using such ideals to safeguard yourself is ridiculous.

Black Ops are a necessary evil of foreign politics. The turians have the Black Watch, the salarians the STG, the asari their Commandos, etc. Humanity has Cerberus.
At the time of ME3, the STG is performing live experimentation on kidnapped yahg in an attempt to expand salarian influence. Cerberus just does the same as everyone else.

Thought Humanity had N7...

yeah humans have N7 and the black ops was what they were cerberus went rogue and now kidnaps and tortures people and aleinslike taking little kids like jack and seeing how pain can make a stronger biotic  

[Mahrac]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The Krogan never invaded the Turian colonies before they went to war, as far as I know. The Turians simply declared war on them because of their threat. I dont believe that we have any specifics on the Krogan Rebellion, except that all the races were devastated, so I don't know if you can theorize on what shape any of the races were.

I would hardly trust a race, which overtly engages in imperialism, making vassals of other races, to stay in line once its military dwarfs its opponents by immeasurable odds.

http://masseffect.wi...ogan_Rebellions
Krogan invaded other species colonies. The history section of the Turian page claims first contact with the Turians happened after the fighting statrted. And while they are imperialistic, the Volus are their only client race, in a mutually beneficial partnership, at the Volus' request. The turians are the backbone of C-Sec, force already on the Citadel. They are the backbone of the Citadel fleet, can prevent ships from escaping. Every citizen is in the military, and they have the largest fleet. They could take over the galaxy without the Reapers

It clearly says that Krogan invaded Turian colonies after their war with the Turians began. The Volus are not their only client race, but the only one which is presented in the game. Having the strongest fleet and a military of citizen soldiers, does not mean that they can completely defeat the entire council.

"Still, this only delayed the inevitable. The war would have been lost if not for first contact with the turians ,who responded to krogan threats with a prompt declaration of war. Being on the far side of krogan space from the Council, the turians advanced rapidly into the lightly-defended krogan rear areas. The krogan responded by dropping space stations on turian colonies. Three worlds were rendered completely uninhabitable."
http://masseffect.wi...ogan_Rebellions 

The Council became concerned as the krogan began to annex territory from other Citadel races. The krogan became more aggressive as other races tried to protect their worlds, until the krogan attempted to settle the asari colony of Lusia. When told by the Council to leave, the krogan refused. Their representative, Overlord Kredak, stormed out of the Council chambers, daring them to take their worlds back. War broke out afterward.

And the next section


The Council had taken precautions. The finest STG operators and asari huntresses had been drafted into a covert "observation force", the Office of Special Tactics and Reconnaissance. The Spectres opened the war with crippling strategic strikes. Krogan planets went dark as computer viruses flooded the extranet. Sabotaged antimatter refineries disappeared in blue-white annihilation. Headquarters stations shattered into orbit-clogging debris, rammed by pre-placed suicide freighters. Unlike the Citadel races, however, the krogan could replenish their numbers very easily and a krogan victory began to seem inevitable.
Finally the Council turned to the turians, newcomers on the Citadel who had a massive fleet and a militaristic culture. Establishing hidden command centres, like Pinnacle Station, turians were able to defeat many krogan bands. But the krogan responded with characteristically horrific attacks on turian worlds, using asteroids as weapons and rendering three planets totally uninhabitable.
Unfortunately this was exactly the wrong approach to take with the turians. Turian military doctrine was (and remains) not simply to defeat an enemy, but stop them from ever becoming a threat again. Far from turning turian public opinion against the war, the ferocity of the krogan only served to stiffen their enemy's resolve and unite every turian against them.

[MisterJB]

Taboo-XX wrote...
Justifying your actions against the existence of others is just as bad. You cannot use that as a defense. You look foolish.

You're essentially saying "I have to do it to because the Turians are doing it!"

So, if we discovered the salarians were planning to use the yahg to attack human colonies, you would have us do nothing to prevent it or in response. Why is it more ethical to kill a thousand yahg in battle than a dozen salarian scientists in their laboratories?
THAT is what is foolish.

TheClonesLegacy wrote...
Thought Humanity had N7...

The N7 are a brach of the Alliance which works as a blunt hammer to discourage military attacks but little else. It is too slowed down by policy and bureaucracy and too concerned to what the Council might say to do what truly needs to be done.
Cerberus can act where an Alliance Cruiser couldn't. This was evidenced by how it was Cerberus along with Commander Shepard that stopped the Collectors.

[Catamantaloedis]

Mahrac wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The Krogan never invaded the Turian colonies before they went to war, as far as I know. The Turians simply declared war on them because of their threat. I dont believe that we have any specifics on the Krogan Rebellion, except that all the races were devastated, so I don't know if you can theorize on what shape any of the races were.

I would hardly trust a race, which overtly engages in imperialism, making vassals of other races, to stay in line once its military dwarfs its opponents by immeasurable odds.

http://masseffect.wi...ogan_Rebellions
Krogan invaded other species colonies. The history section of the Turian page claims first contact with the Turians happened after the fighting statrted. And while they are imperialistic, the Volus are their only client race, in a mutually beneficial partnership, at the Volus' request. The turians are the backbone of C-Sec, force already on the Citadel. They are the backbone of the Citadel fleet, can prevent ships from escaping. Every citizen is in the military, and they have the largest fleet. They could take over the galaxy without the Reapers

It clearly says that Krogan invaded Turian colonies after their war with the Turians began. The Volus are not their only client race, but the only one which is presented in the game. Having the strongest fleet and a military of citizen soldiers, does not mean that they can completely defeat the entire council.

"Still, this only delayed the inevitable. The war would have been lost if not for first contact with the turians ,who responded to krogan threats with a prompt declaration of war. Being on the far side of krogan space from the Council, the turians advanced rapidly into the lightly-defended krogan rear areas. The krogan responded by dropping space stations on turian colonies. Three worlds were rendered completely uninhabitable."
http://masseffect.wi...ogan_Rebellions 

The Council became concerned as the krogan began to annex territory from other Citadel races. The krogan became more aggressive as other races tried to protect their worlds, until the krogan attempted to settle the asari colony of Lusia. When told by the Council to leave, the krogan refused. Their representative, Overlord Kredak, stormed out of the Council chambers, daring them to take their worlds back. War broke out afterward.

And the next section


The Council had taken precautions. The finest STG operators and asari huntresses had been drafted into a covert "observation force", the Office of Special Tactics and Reconnaissance. The Spectres opened the war with crippling strategic strikes. Krogan planets went dark as computer viruses flooded the extranet. Sabotaged antimatter refineries disappeared in blue-white annihilation. Headquarters stations shattered into orbit-clogging debris, rammed by pre-placed suicide freighters. Unlike the Citadel races, however, the krogan could replenish their numbers very easily and a krogan victory began to seem inevitable.

"Finally the Council turned to the turians, newcomers on the Citadel who had a massive fleet and a militaristic culture. Establishing hidden command centres, like Pinnacle Station, turians were able to defeat many krogan bands. But the krogan responded with characteristically horrific attacks on turian worlds, using asteroids as weapons and rendering three planets totally uninhabitable.
Unfortunately this was exactly the wrong approach to take with the turians. Turian military doctrine was (and remains) not simply to defeat an enemy, but stop them from ever becoming a threat again. Far from turning turian public opinion against the war, the ferocity of the krogan only served to stiffen their enemy's resolve and unite every turian against them.

I don't know what any of that is supposed to prove. Please explain how that suggests that the Turians didn't initiate their part in the  war or how it suddenly makes them able to defeat the Council all on their own. Because it doesn't say that at all. In fact, the turians could not even defeat the Krogan with the help of the Council. They had to use the genophage to achieve victory.

"The arrival of turian task forces saved many worlds from the warlords' marauding fleets, but it took the development of the genophage bioweapon to end the war. There were decades of unrest afterwards. Rogue warlords and holdout groups of insurgents refused to surrender, or disappeared into the frontier systems to become pirates."

Please quote stuff that actually supports your viewpoint.

Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 16 mai 2012 - 12:45 .

[SuperVulcan]

Boo! Cerberus! They are just a bunch of tools.

[.458]

David7204 wrote...

I don't think I'd mind being dominated by asari.

They are available in black leather...they just need a whip...

[Mahrac]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

I don't know what any of that is supposed to prove. Please explain how that suggests that the Turians didn't initiate their part in the  war or how it suddenly makes them able to defeat the Council all on their own. Because it doesn't say that at all. In fact, the turians could not even defeat the Krogan with the help of the Council. They had to use the genophage to achieve victory.

"The arrival of turian task forces saved many worlds from the warlords' marauding fleets, but it took the development of the genophage bioweapon to end the war. There were decades of unrest afterwards. Rogue warlords and holdout groups of insurgents refused to surrender, or disappeared into the frontier systems to become pirates."

Please quote stuff that actually supports your viewpoint.

...Isolating...Isolating... Irrelevat search. proves that Turians did not initiate hostilities. Extracting new data. ...Isolating...Isolating...

The Council became concerned as the krogan began to annex territory from other Citadel races. The krogan became more aggressive as other races tried to protect their worlds, until the krogan attempted to settle the asari colony of Lusia.

"Finally the Council turned to the turians, newcomers on the Citadel

Initiating New Search. Criteria: Turian Capabilities vs. Citadel Races, Top Three Results

At the Farixen Naval Conference, the Council races agreed to fix a ratio of dreadnought construction between themselves due to their destructive potential. At the top of the pyramid is the peacekeeping turian fleet which makes up most of the Citadel Fleet.

Befitting their "public service" culture, it was the turians who first proposed creating a police force for the Citadel, which may be why more than half of all C-Sec officers are turian. Humans appear to form the largest minority (addendum: configure to pre-human numbers)

Turian units don't break. Even if their entire line collapses, they fall back in order, setting ambushes as they go. A popular saying holds: "You will only see a turian's back once he's dead."

Modifié par Mahrac, 16 mai 2012 - 12:57 .

[.458]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

 Several of you have taunted me, unfairly of course, stating sarcastically that someone with my supposedly "radical" or "extreme" beliefs would probably go so far as to support Cerbeus and the Illusive Man. Well, guess what? You absolutely f****ing right. Every other race uses their particular advantages to secure their spot in the galaxy over the others. The Asari use their economy and secret Prothean technology, the Turians have their military, the Salarians have their intelligence services and special forces. Humans don't have any of that. So in order to ensure our place in the balance of power, and eventually dominate all the other races, we need to use whaever means possible. Therefore, the Reapers become very convenient for us. With their unstoppable fleet and priceless indoctrination technology, we can take control of the mentally inferior species such as the Krogan, take control of the abominable synthetics and bring them into our fold, and use the mighty Reaper fleet to destroy our enemies. Then we can usher in a golden age of humanity and ensure our dominance in the galaxy for eternity. Anyone who disagrees is a fool.

And none of them were adequate! Took all of them together. Also, the female Krogan mind seemed to not be inferior, it was just the male Krogan attitude. Humans were the most powerful of all races, more powerful than even the Reapers. Humans took the powers out there and brought them together, to defeat the Reapers. And if Shepard controlled and did not outright destroy in the final scene, he became more powerful than all others in the universe...a single man. The indoctrinated are not strong enough to unite anyone other than those who are subjugatable (geez, I hope that is a word). Anyone who subjugates will never add the power of someone more powerful...only a diplomat is more powerful than himself.

Modifié par .458, 16 mai 2012 - 12:59 .

[Catamantaloedis]

Mahrac wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

I don't know what any of that is supposed to prove. Please explain how that suggests that the Turians didn't initiate their part in the  war or how it suddenly makes them able to defeat the Council all on their own. Because it doesn't say that at all. In fact, the turians could not even defeat the Krogan with the help of the Council. They had to use the genophage to achieve victory.

"The arrival of turian task forces saved many worlds from the warlords' marauding fleets, but it took the development of the genophage bioweapon to end the war. There were decades of unrest afterwards. Rogue warlords and holdout groups of insurgents refused to surrender, or disappeared into the frontier systems to become pirates."

Please quote stuff that actually supports your viewpoint.

...Isolating...Isolating... Irrelevat search. proves that Turians did not initiate hostilities. Extracting new relevant search. ...Isolating...Isolating...

The Council became concerned as the krogan began to annex territory from other Citadel races. The krogan became more aggressive as other races tried to protect their worlds, until the krogan attempted to settle the asari colony of Lusia.

"Finally the Council turned to the turians, newcomers on the Citadel

Initiating New Search. Criteria: Turian Capabilities vs. Citadel Races, Top Three Results

At the Farixen Naval Conference, the Council races agreed to fix a ratio of dreadnought construction between themselves due to their destructive potential. At the top of the pyramid is the peacekeeping turian fleet which makes up most of the Citadel Fleet.

Befitting their "public service" culture, it was the turians who first proposed creating a police force for the Citadel, which may be why more than half of all C-Sec officers are turian. Humans appear to form the largest minority (addendum: configure to pre-human numbers)

Turian units don't break. Even if their entire line collapses, they fall back in order, setting ambushes as they go. A popular saying holds: "You will only see a turian's back once he's dead."

None of that suggests that the Turians didn't start their particular war with the Krogan, and my link from the Almighty Codex itself, not some wiki, states that the Turians began their part in the war against the Krogan because of the Krogan's threats. 
Again, the turians have less dreadnoughts then the asari and salarians combined. Add in humans and they have even less:
"
The ratio of turian to Council to associate dreadnoughts is 5:3:1, which essentially means for every five dreadnoughts the turians construct, the asari and salarians are allowed three, and all other Citadel races one. Signing the Treaty of Farixen is a requirement for any race wishing to open an embassy on the Citadel. "

Just because the turians have the strongest singular military does not mean that they can feasibly defeat the entire Council all on their own. 

Everything else you posted was crap.

[garrusfan1]

.458 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I don't think I'd mind being dominated by asari.

They are available in black leather...they just need a whip...

hahahhahhahahha