235 réponses à ce sujet

[garrusfan1]

.458 wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

 Several of you have taunted me, unfairly of course, stating sarcastically that someone with my supposedly "radical" or "extreme" beliefs would probably go so far as to support Cerbeus and the Illusive Man. Well, guess what? You absolutely f****ing right. Every other race uses their particular advantages to secure their spot in the galaxy over the others. The Asari use their economy and secret Prothean technology, the Turians have their military, the Salarians have their intelligence services and special forces. Humans don't have any of that. So in order to ensure our place in the balance of power, and eventually dominate all the other races, we need to use whaever means possible. Therefore, the Reapers become very convenient for us. With their unstoppable fleet and priceless indoctrination technology, we can take control of the mentally inferior species such as the Krogan, take control of the abominable synthetics and bring them into our fold, and use the mighty Reaper fleet to destroy our enemies. Then we can usher in a golden age of humanity and ensure our dominance in the galaxy for eternity. Anyone who disagrees is a fool.

And none of them were adequate! Took all of them together. Also, the female Krogan mind seemed to not be inferior, it was just the male Krogan attitude. Humans were the most powerful of all races, more powerful than even the Reapers. Humans took the powers out there and brought them together, to defeat the Reapers. And if Shepard controlled and did not outright destroy in the final scene, he became more powerful than all others in the universe...a single man. The indoctrinated are not strong enough to unite anyone other than those who are subjugatable (geez, I hope that is a word). Anyone who subjugates will never add the power of someone more powerful...only a diplomat is more powerful than himself.

humanity didn`t unite the galaxy shepard did

[Deltakarma]

If Martin Sheen voiced everyone in Cerberus or has ever been in it, like Miranda and Jacob, I think we all know Cerberus would not have any problems in the future.....

[TheClonesLegacy]

garrusfan1 wrote...

.458 wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

 Several of you have taunted me, unfairly of course, stating sarcastically that someone with my supposedly "radical" or "extreme" beliefs would probably go so far as to support Cerbeus and the Illusive Man. Well, guess what? You absolutely f****ing right. Every other race uses their particular advantages to secure their spot in the galaxy over the others. The Asari use their economy and secret Prothean technology, the Turians have their military, the Salarians have their intelligence services and special forces. Humans don't have any of that. So in order to ensure our place in the balance of power, and eventually dominate all the other races, we need to use whaever means possible. Therefore, the Reapers become very convenient for us. With their unstoppable fleet and priceless indoctrination technology, we can take control of the mentally inferior species such as the Krogan, take control of the abominable synthetics and bring them into our fold, and use the mighty Reaper fleet to destroy our enemies. Then we can usher in a golden age of humanity and ensure our dominance in the galaxy for eternity. Anyone who disagrees is a fool.

And none of them were adequate! Took all of them together. Also, the female Krogan mind seemed to not be inferior, it was just the male Krogan attitude. Humans were the most powerful of all races, more powerful than even the Reapers. Humans took the powers out there and brought them together, to defeat the Reapers. And if Shepard controlled and did not outright destroy in the final scene, he became more powerful than all others in the universe...a single man. The indoctrinated are not strong enough to unite anyone other than those who are subjugatable (geez, I hope that is a word). Anyone who subjugates will never add the power of someone more powerful...only a diplomat is more powerful than himself.

humanity didn`t unite the galaxy shepard did

Exactally because he's the "Shepard" of the Galaxies Sheep...er I mean Species..
Yes that's what I meant.

[justafan]

I can't believe I am agreeing with you OP, but I think Cerberus has its place in galactic society. Before ME1, Cerberus had no place, it was plain and simple a terrorist organization. Yet after the reaper threat was made known, it became humanities most valuable asset.

In the face of a Reaper invasion and total annihilation, Cerberus took action. It invested heavily in the impossible project of bringing the only person who could stop the reapers back from the dead and succeeded. The Alliance would never have been able to do this due to both ethical concerns and the titanic task of securing the necessary funds and researchers.

Cerberus also was one of the only organizations to take action in preparation for the invasion. To my knowledge only the Geth and Quarians outside of Cerberus took any long-term action to prepare for the Reapers, and in the end all that did was to help them weaken each other. They also gave Shepard a ship and the resources to find helpful technology that would ultimately help humanity survive.

Even their insane research was justified in the face of the Reapers. Imagine if their Rachni plans had succeeded? Humanity, and thus organic life, could counter the never ending husks with mindless and expendable shock troops of our own. The Krogan would never have been necessary to get Turian support early on, we could simply clone an army of obedient Rachni.

Even Sanctuary, for all evils was on the path to turning the ground war in our favor. In the face of extinction, what measure is too far? The Geth sold their soul and JOINED the Reapers, but we found a way to forgive them, and yet why do we always villainize Cerberus? Unlike the geth Cerberus never (consciously) betrayed all Organic life, it was always fighting to secure survival for humanity, and by extention Organics. Had Horizon's researched been continued, who knows how many lives on the ground could be saved by tech that would negate and control the reaper hordes. All Cerberus had to do was anonymously drop the info at Alliance HQ, much like a certain Shadow Broker did with less important supplies.

In the end, Cerberus had to be taken down not because they were evil or doing unforgivable acts, but because they lost sight of their goal. Cerberus is first and foremost a Human Survivalist organization. In ME3, they lost sight of that and tried to ensure Human supremacy at the risk of Humanities survival. The Cerberus of ME2 had the potential and resolve to save Humanity, yet they squandered that opportunity by not cooperating with the greater war effort and trying to secure human dominance through their actions in ME3.

[Mahrac]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

I don't know what any of that is supposed to prove. Please explain how that suggests that the Turians didn't initiate their part in the  war or how it suddenly makes them able to defeat the Council all on their own. Because it doesn't say that at all. In fact, the turians could not even defeat the Krogan with the help of the Council. They had to use the genophage to achieve victory.

"The arrival of turian task forces saved many worlds from the warlords' marauding fleets, but it took the development of the genophage bioweapon to end the war. There were decades of unrest afterwards. Rogue warlords and holdout groups of insurgents refused to surrender, or disappeared into the frontier systems to become pirates."

Please quote stuff that actually supports your viewpoint.

...Isolating...Isolating... Irrelevat search. proves that Turians did not initiate hostilities. Extracting new relevant search. ...Isolating...Isolating...

The Council became concerned as the krogan began to annex territory from other Citadel races. The krogan became more aggressive as other races tried to protect their worlds, until the krogan attempted to settle the asari colony of Lusia.

"Finally the Council turned to the turians, newcomers on the Citadel

Initiating New Search. Criteria: Turian Capabilities vs. Citadel Races, Top Three Results

At the Farixen Naval Conference, the Council races agreed to fix a ratio of dreadnought construction between themselves due to their destructive potential. At the top of the pyramid is the peacekeeping turian fleet which makes up most of the Citadel Fleet.

Befitting their "public service" culture, it was the turians who first proposed creating a police force for the Citadel, which may be why more than half of all C-Sec officers are turian. Humans appear to form the largest minority (addendum: configure to pre-human numbers)

Turian units don't break. Even if their entire line collapses, they fall back in order, setting ambushes as they go. A popular saying holds: "You will only see a turian's back once he's dead."

None of that suggests that the Turians didn't start their particular war with the Krogan, and my link from the Almighty Codex itself, not some wiki, states that the Turians began their part in the war against the Krogan because of the Krogan's threats. 
Again, the turians have less dreadnoughts then the asari and salarians combined. Add in humans and they have even less:
"
[color=rgb(255,255,255)">The ratio of turian to Council to associate dreadnoughts is 5:3:1, which essentially means for every five dreadnoughts the turians construct, the asari and salarians are allowed three, and all other Citadel races one. Signing the Treaty of Farixen is a requirement for any race wishing to open an ] on the Citadel.[/color] "

Just because the turians have the strongest singular military does not mean that they can feasibly defeat the entire Council all on their own. 

Everything else you posted was crap.

not really. the 5:3:1 is only presuming that both Salarians and Asari have their maximum number. All that is known is that the turians have the most.
Point two. Turinas have an advantage in numbers on the Citadel, and therefore could take it over and hold the council hostage with relative ease, without bringing in reinforcements.
Point three. Turians have the most diciplined, and best trained, army in Citadel Space, could have been a better quote, but I think it gets it across.

Modifié par Mahrac, 16 mai 2012 - 01:08 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Catamantaloedis wrote...
I would hardly trust a race, which overtly engages in imperialism, making vassals of other races, to stay in line once its military dwarfs its opponents by immeasurable odds.

Unless your species is the one doing it, than it's full steam ahead apparently.

[Catamantaloedis]

justafan wrote...

I can't believe I am agreeing with you OP, but I think Cerberus has its place in galactic society. Before ME1, Cerberus had no place, it was plain and simple a terrorist organization. Yet after the reaper threat was made known, it became humanities most valuable asset.

In the face of a Reaper invasion and total annihilation, Cerberus took action. It invested heavily in the impossible project of bringing the only person who could stop the reapers back from the dead and succeeded. The Alliance would never have been able to do this due to both ethical concerns and the titanic task of securing the necessary funds and researchers.

Cerberus also was one of the only organizations to take action in preparation for the invasion. To my knowledge only the Geth and Quarians outside of Cerberus took any long-term action to prepare for the Reapers, and in the end all that did was to help them weaken each other. They also gave Shepard a ship and the resources to find helpful technology that would ultimately help humanity survive.

Even their insane research was justified in the face of the Reapers. Imagine if their Rachni plans had succeeded? Humanity, and thus organic life, could counter the never ending husks with mindless and expendable shock troops of our own. The Krogan would never have been necessary to get Turian support early on, we could simply clone an army of obedient Rachni.

Even Sanctuary, for all evils was on the path to turning the ground war in our favor. In the face of extinction, what measure is too far? The Geth sold their soul and JOINED the Reapers, but we found a way to forgive them, and yet why do we always villainize Cerberus? Unlike the geth Cerberus never (consciously) betrayed all Organic life, it was always fighting to secure survival for humanity, and by extention Organics. Had Horizon's researched been continued, who knows how many lives on the ground could be saved by tech that would negate and control the reaper hordes. All Cerberus had to do was anonymously drop the info at Alliance HQ, much like a certain Shadow Broker did with less important supplies.

In the end, Cerberus had to be taken down not because they were evil or doing unforgivable acts, but because they lost sight of their goal. Cerberus is first and foremost a Human Survivalist organization. In ME3, they lost sight of that and tried to ensure Human supremacy at the risk of Humanities survival. The Cerberus of ME2 had the potential and resolve to save Humanity, yet they squandered that opportunity by not cooperating with the greater war effort and trying to secure human dominance through their actions in ME3.

So much logic except for in the final paragraph.

[garrusfan1]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

justafan wrote...

I can't believe I am agreeing with you OP, but I think Cerberus has its place in galactic society. Before ME1, Cerberus had no place, it was plain and simple a terrorist organization. Yet after the reaper threat was made known, it became humanities most valuable asset.

In the face of a Reaper invasion and total annihilation, Cerberus took action. It invested heavily in the impossible project of bringing the only person who could stop the reapers back from the dead and succeeded. The Alliance would never have been able to do this due to both ethical concerns and the titanic task of securing the necessary funds and researchers.

Cerberus also was one of the only organizations to take action in preparation for the invasion. To my knowledge only the Geth and Quarians outside of Cerberus took any long-term action to prepare for the Reapers, and in the end all that did was to help them weaken each other. They also gave Shepard a ship and the resources to find helpful technology that would ultimately help humanity survive.

Even their insane research was justified in the face of the Reapers. Imagine if their Rachni plans had succeeded? Humanity, and thus organic life, could counter the never ending husks with mindless and expendable shock troops of our own. The Krogan would never have been necessary to get Turian support early on, we could simply clone an army of obedient Rachni.

Even Sanctuary, for all evils was on the path to turning the ground war in our favor. In the face of extinction, what measure is too far? The Geth sold their soul and JOINED the Reapers, but we found a way to forgive them, and yet why do we always villainize Cerberus? Unlike the geth Cerberus never (consciously) betrayed all Organic life, it was always fighting to secure survival for humanity, and by extention Organics. Had Horizon's researched been continued, who knows how many lives on the ground could be saved by tech that would negate and control the reaper hordes. All Cerberus had to do was anonymously drop the info at Alliance HQ, much like a certain Shadow Broker did with less important supplies.

In the end, Cerberus had to be taken down not because they were evil or doing unforgivable acts, but because they lost sight of their goal. Cerberus is first and foremost a Human Survivalist organization. In ME3, they lost sight of that and tried to ensure Human supremacy at the risk of Humanities survival. The Cerberus of ME2 had the potential and resolve to save Humanity, yet they squandered that opportunity by not cooperating with the greater war effort and trying to secure human dominance through their actions in ME3.

So much logic except for in the final paragraph.

good grief

[Catamantaloedis]

Mahrac wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

I don't know what any of that is supposed to prove. Please explain how that suggests that the Turians didn't initiate their part in the  war or how it suddenly makes them able to defeat the Council all on their own. Because it doesn't say that at all. In fact, the turians could not even defeat the Krogan with the help of the Council. They had to use the genophage to achieve victory.

"The arrival of turian task forces saved many worlds from the warlords' marauding fleets, but it took the development of the genophage bioweapon to end the war. There were decades of unrest afterwards. Rogue warlords and holdout groups of insurgents refused to surrender, or disappeared into the frontier systems to become pirates."

Please quote stuff that actually supports your viewpoint.

...Isolating...Isolating... Irrelevat search. proves that Turians did not initiate hostilities. Extracting new relevant search. ...Isolating...Isolating...

The Council became concerned as the krogan began to annex territory from other Citadel races. The krogan became more aggressive as other races tried to protect their worlds, until the krogan attempted to settle the asari colony of Lusia.

"Finally the Council turned to the turians, newcomers on the Citadel

Initiating New Search. Criteria: Turian Capabilities vs. Citadel Races, Top Three Results

At the Farixen Naval Conference, the Council races agreed to fix a ratio of dreadnought construction between themselves due to their destructive potential. At the top of the pyramid is the peacekeeping turian fleet which makes up most of the Citadel Fleet.

Befitting their "public service" culture, it was the turians who first proposed creating a police force for the Citadel, which may be why more than half of all C-Sec officers are turian. Humans appear to form the largest minority (addendum: configure to pre-human numbers)

Turian units don't break. Even if their entire line collapses, they fall back in order, setting ambushes as they go. A popular saying holds: "You will only see a turian's back once he's dead."

None of that suggests that the Turians didn't start their particular war with the Krogan, and my link from the Almighty Codex itself, not some wiki, states that the Turians began their part in the war against the Krogan because of the Krogan's threats. 
Again, the turians have less dreadnoughts then the asari and salarians combined. Add in humans and they have even less:
"
[color=rgb(255,255,255)">The ratio of turian to Council to associate dreadnoughts is 5:3:1, which essentially means for every five dreadnoughts the turians construct, the asari and salarians are allowed three, and all other Citadel races one. Signing the Treaty of Farixen is a requirement for any race wishing to open an ] on the Citadel.[/color] "

Just because the turians have the strongest singular military does not mean that they can feasibly defeat the entire Council all on their own. 

Everything else you posted was crap.

not really. the 5:3:1 is only presuming that both Salarians and Asari have their maximum number. All that is known is that the turians have the most.
Point two. Turinas have an advantage in numbers on the Citadel, and therefore could take it over and hold the council hostage with decent ease.
Point three. Turians have the most diciplined, and best trained, army in Citadel Space, could have been a better quote, but I think it gets it across.

1. You can't presume that the turians have more than this number indicates either. And regardless, having the most doesn't mean that they can conquer the entire Council. It doesn't work that way.
2. The Council is a bunch of figureheads. They only represent their governments. Nothing changes if they live or die
3. Having the best army, doesn't mean that it can dominate every other race, especially in a universe where fleets are enormously more valuable than infantry than in even the modern world.

Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 16 mai 2012 - 01:12 .

[justafan]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

justafan wrote...

I can't believe I am agreeing with you OP, but I think Cerberus has its place in galactic society. Before ME1, Cerberus had no place, it was plain and simple a terrorist organization. Yet after the reaper threat was made known, it became humanities most valuable asset.

In the face of a Reaper invasion and total annihilation, Cerberus took action. It invested heavily in the impossible project of bringing the only person who could stop the reapers back from the dead and succeeded. The Alliance would never have been able to do this due to both ethical concerns and the titanic task of securing the necessary funds and researchers.

Cerberus also was one of the only organizations to take action in preparation for the invasion. To my knowledge only the Geth and Quarians outside of Cerberus took any long-term action to prepare for the Reapers, and in the end all that did was to help them weaken each other. They also gave Shepard a ship and the resources to find helpful technology that would ultimately help humanity survive.

Even their insane research was justified in the face of the Reapers. Imagine if their Rachni plans had succeeded? Humanity, and thus organic life, could counter the never ending husks with mindless and expendable shock troops of our own. The Krogan would never have been necessary to get Turian support early on, we could simply clone an army of obedient Rachni.

Even Sanctuary, for all evils was on the path to turning the ground war in our favor. In the face of extinction, what measure is too far? The Geth sold their soul and JOINED the Reapers, but we found a way to forgive them, and yet why do we always villainize Cerberus? Unlike the geth Cerberus never (consciously) betrayed all Organic life, it was always fighting to secure survival for humanity, and by extention Organics. Had Horizon's researched been continued, who knows how many lives on the ground could be saved by tech that would negate and control the reaper hordes. All Cerberus had to do was anonymously drop the info at Alliance HQ, much like a certain Shadow Broker did with less important supplies.

In the end, Cerberus had to be taken down not because they were evil or doing unforgivable acts, but because they lost sight of their goal. Cerberus is first and foremost a Human Survivalist organization. In ME3, they lost sight of that and tried to ensure Human supremacy at the risk of Humanities survival. The Cerberus of ME2 had the potential and resolve to save Humanity, yet they squandered that opportunity by not cooperating with the greater war effort and trying to secure human dominance through their actions in ME3.

So much logic except for in the final paragraph.

Even you OP must admit Cerberus' actions in ME3 weakened the overall goal of Humanity's survival.  All they had to do was remain a shadowy organization doing their experiments and the war effort would have been stronger for it.  Sabotaging Krogan/Turian/Salarian/etc. alliances only lowered humanity's chance at success with really no gain to Cerberus.

[Catamantaloedis]

They were only driven to take extraordinary measures because of the massive stupidity on the part of the rest of the galaxy.

[GLR-0053]

Cerberus is nothing but a nuisance in ME3 because they constantly try to hinder Shepard's progress in gaining support from various races. And they also tried to hinder the Alliances' progress on the war against the Reapers.

Not to mention, The Illusive Man did not even consider that controlling the Reaper's might fail (and it did because he was indoctrinated). I'm kinda surprised that he did not have a plan to prepare for that sort of setback, because he strikes me as someone who has contingency plans. Oh well I was wrong, should have saw the signs like hiring Kai Leng.

Modifié par GLR-0053, 16 mai 2012 - 01:19 .

[Mahrac]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

not really. the 5:3:1 is only presuming that both Salarians and Asari have their maximum number. All that is known is that the turians have the most.
Point two. Turinas have an advantage in numbers on the Citadel, and therefore could take it over and hold the council hostage with decent ease.
Point three. Turians have the most diciplined, and best trained, army in Citadel Space, could have been a better quote, but I think it gets it across.

1. You can't presume that the turians have more than this number indicates either. And regardless, having the most doesn't mean that they can conquer the entire Council. It doesn't work that way.
2. The Council is a bunch of figureheads. They only represent their governments. Nothing changes if they live or die
3. Having the best army, doesn't mean that it can dominate every other race, especially in a universe where fleets are enormously more valuable than infantry than in even the modern world.

1. I know that as of 2183 the turians have 37 and the Asari and Salarians have 37 combined, I can assume that before that the Turians may have had more than the combined number. I also know that there is no mention of a minor race dreadnought before 2186

2. They are still valuable hostages, along with all of the other politicians and their staff

3. Part of that army is their fleet, which is also the largest, best trained, and best equiped.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

You sound like the Protheans.

[Mahrac]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

You sound like the Protheans.

except the protheans wanted the Reapers destroyed, not controled

[garrusfan1]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

You sound like the Protheans.

exactly and as I said get away from reaper tech

[Catamantaloedis]

Mahrac wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

not really. the 5:3:1 is only presuming that both Salarians and Asari have their maximum number. All that is known is that the turians have the most.
Point two. Turinas have an advantage in numbers on the Citadel, and therefore could take it over and hold the council hostage with decent ease.
Point three. Turians have the most diciplined, and best trained, army in Citadel Space, could have been a better quote, but I think it gets it across.

1. You can't presume that the turians have more than this number indicates either. And regardless, having the most doesn't mean that they can conquer the entire Council. It doesn't work that way.
2. The Council is a bunch of figureheads. They only represent their governments. Nothing changes if they live or die
3. Having the best army, doesn't mean that it can dominate every other race, especially in a universe where fleets are enormously more valuable than infantry than in even the modern world.

1. I know that as of 2183 the turians have 37 and the Asari and Salarians have 37 combined, I can assume that before that the Turians may have had more than the combined number. I also know that there is no mention of a minor race dreadnought before 2186

2. They are still valuable hostages, along with all of the other politicians and their staff

3. Part of that army is their fleet, which is also the largest, best trained, and best equiped.

1. Still conveniently leaving humans out of the equation, yes? Regardless, you can not just state that a race of more or less equal numbers and technology can just win, and easily overrun a near equal enemy(disregarding, still the humans). Moreoever, this is still neglecting the advantages which the other races have, such as the Asari economy, and the salarians intelligence and special forces agencies, which is impossible to estimate in their efficacy against the turians.
2. Ultimately irrelevant in their ability to wage war.
3. Again, does not mean that they can conquer all the Council races. Being the strongest, doesn't mean that you can conquer every enemy, and never has in the history of warfare.

Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 16 mai 2012 - 01:29 .

[garrusfan1]

Mahrac wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

You sound like the Protheans.

except the protheans wanted the Reapers destroyed, not controled

the prothean VI on thessia said some did

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

This thread did not disappoint.

[Mahrac]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

not really. the 5:3:1 is only presuming that both Salarians and Asari have their maximum number. All that is known is that the turians have the most.
Point two. Turinas have an advantage in numbers on the Citadel, and therefore could take it over and hold the council hostage with decent ease.
Point three. Turians have the most diciplined, and best trained, army in Citadel Space, could have been a better quote, but I think it gets it across.

1. You can't presume that the turians have more than this number indicates either. And regardless, having the most doesn't mean that they can conquer the entire Council. It doesn't work that way.
2. The Council is a bunch of figureheads. They only represent their governments. Nothing changes if they live or die
3. Having the best army, doesn't mean that it can dominate every other race, especially in a universe where fleets are enormously more valuable than infantry than in even the modern world.

1. I know that as of 2183 the turians have 37 and the Asari and Salarians have 37 combined, I can assume that before that the Turians may have had more than the combined number. I also know that there is no mention of a minor race dreadnought before 2186

2. They are still valuable hostages, along with all of the other politicians and their staff

3. Part of that army is their fleet, which is also the largest, best trained, and best equiped.

1. Still conveniently leaving humans out of the equation, yes? Regardless, you can not just state that a race of more or less equal numbers and technology can just win, and easily overrun a near equal enemy(disregarding, still the humans). Moreoever, this is still neglecting the advantages which the other races have, such as the Asari economy, and the salarians intelligence and special forces agencies, which is impossible to estimate in their efficacy against the turians.
2. Ultimately irrelevant in their ability to wage war.
3. Again, does not mean that they can conquer all the Council races. Being the strongest, doesn't mean that you can conquer every enemy, and never has in the history of warfare.

1. Before Humans falls into my argued timeline, so yes, I'm ignoring Humans. And equal tech. plus superior numbers plus superior soldiers. I'm not ignoreing the Asari economy, I'm just betting that the Volus economy plus a suprior navy to raid trade lanes > Asari Economy. I'm also betting that Salarian Intelegince < Economic, Naval, Ground, & Political superiority

2. It givs the Turians political leverage to a resolution that favors them

3. It means you can keep winning the battles until the Asari and Salarians, the major powers, are unwilling to continue.

It can be done, but it hasn't because the Turians don't want to dominate their allies politically, with or without the Reapers.

[Mahrac]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

You sound like the Protheans.

except the protheans wanted the Reapers destroyed, not controled

the prothean VI on thessia said some did

forgot about that. I don't like thinking about Thessia

[TheClonesLegacy]

Mahrac wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

You sound like the Protheans.

except the protheans wanted the Reapers destroyed, not controled

the prothean VI on thessia said some did

forgot about that. I don't like thinking about Thessia

I do

[Catamantaloedis]

Mahrac wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

not really. the 5:3:1 is only presuming that both Salarians and Asari have their maximum number. All that is known is that the turians have the most.
Point two. Turinas have an advantage in numbers on the Citadel, and therefore could take it over and hold the council hostage with decent ease.
Point three. Turians have the most diciplined, and best trained, army in Citadel Space, could have been a better quote, but I think it gets it across.

1. You can't presume that the turians have more than this number indicates either. And regardless, having the most doesn't mean that they can conquer the entire Council. It doesn't work that way.
2. The Council is a bunch of figureheads. They only represent their governments. Nothing changes if they live or die
3. Having the best army, doesn't mean that it can dominate every other race, especially in a universe where fleets are enormously more valuable than infantry than in even the modern world.

1. I know that as of 2183 the turians have 37 and the Asari and Salarians have 37 combined, I can assume that before that the Turians may have had more than the combined number. I also know that there is no mention of a minor race dreadnought before 2186

2. They are still valuable hostages, along with all of the other politicians and their staff

3. Part of that army is their fleet, which is also the largest, best trained, and best equiped.

1. Still conveniently leaving humans out of the equation, yes? Regardless, you can not just state that a race of more or less equal numbers and technology can just win, and easily overrun a near equal enemy(disregarding, still the humans). Moreoever, this is still neglecting the advantages which the other races have, such as the Asari economy, and the salarians intelligence and special forces agencies, which is impossible to estimate in their efficacy against the turians.
2. Ultimately irrelevant in their ability to wage war.
3. Again, does not mean that they can conquer all the Council races. Being the strongest, doesn't mean that you can conquer every enemy, and never has in the history of warfare.

1. Before Humans falls into my argued timeline, so yes, I'm ignoring Humans. And equal tech. plus superior numbers plus superior soldiers. I'm not ignoreing the Asari economy, I'm just betting that the Volus economy plus a suprior navy to raid trade lanes > Asari Economy. I'm also betting that Salarian Intelegince < Economic, Naval, Ground, & Political superiority

2. It givs the Turians political leverage to a resolution that favors them

3. It means you can keep winning the battles until the Asari and Salarians, the major powers, are unwilling to continue.

It can be done, but it hasn't because the Turians don't want to dominate their allies politically, with or without the Reapers.

1. Except that the Turian fleet is not all that superior to the Asari/Salarians. Even if they are not tremendous advantages, they are advantages nonetheless. 
2. Holding a bunch of figureheads without power is more or less irrelevant. The real government is on Thessia and Sur'Kesh.
3. Except that they are not going to be winning every battle, especially against foes which are not much weaker. I've said it once, I'll say it a million times, having a superior military does not mean that you can conquer enemies of near equal strength, or even lesser stength given the correct circumstances, without essentially destroying yourself. It did not work for the Roman Empire, it did not work for France, or Spain, or Austria it did not work for the British nor the Germans, it did not work for the United States, it did not work for the Soviet Union. 

Being the strongest doesn't mean that you can completely dominate your enemies entirely. 

[garrusfan1]

wanna know why I hate cerberus well the biggest reason anyway KAI LENG ugh I HATE HIM

[TheClonesLegacy]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

This thread did not disappoint.

yup