205 réponses à ce sujet

[Sleeping_Dragon]

I find the biggest drawback to this game, is that potion cooldown is too low.
This allow player to chug down lots of potion during combat and making the game entirely too easy.

They should have put more thought into this..which would have made the game so much more memorable.
What should have happen is that cooldown on potions should increase with game difficulty.

[Bibdy]

I quite liked the healing system in Mass Effect, the only heal being a group heal, with a long cooldown (getting much longer depending on the difficulty setting) and it helped a lot to have one of your party members specced into First Aid.

But, I guess that worked better in a game with cover and a Halo-type shield system too, where you could hide after taking a few hits and regen your shield before jumping into the fray again.

All in all, I agree. Having a separate cooldown on each level of potion, with insanely short individual cooldowns was a bit of a bad idea. Beating a dragon by having your tank keep running it head first, getting constantly battered in the face with constant knockbacks, melee swings and fire breath, while 3 of your characters just sit back and attack it from ranged, as that tank keeps cycling through your 2 or 3 best healing potions over and over again...is a rather disappointing way to beat something that should be so difficult, and looks really weird watching that tank acting like a Poultice junky.

Modifié par Bibdy, 09 décembre 2009 - 06:34 .

[RetrOldSchool]

Sleeping_Dragon wrote...

I find the biggest drawback to this game, is that potion cooldown is too low.
This allow player to chug down lots of potion during combat and making the game entirely too easy.

They should have put more thought into this..which would have made the game so much more memorable.
What should have happen is that cooldown on potions should increase with game difficulty.

I can agree to a certain degree that a potions cooldown (esp on hard and nm or a toggle option) would make sense. I try to use as few potions as possible and if I have to spam potions to win a fight I usually reload and try to refine my tactics.

[Sleeping_Dragon]

Maybe some smart people can make a mod to increase cooldown on potion?

The developer should have learn from mass effect!

Its too bad a great game ruin by a slight design flaw.

[DJoker35]

Sleeping_Dragon wrote...

Maybe some smart people can make a mod to increase cooldown on potion?
The developer should have learn from mass effect!
Its too bad a great game ruin by a slight design flaw.

The game is "ruined" by that? Try this...don't use the potions. Or use them less often. Problem solved. Game no longer "ruined".

[MachDelta]

A mod would be pretty simple as the cooldowns are all listed in ABI_base.xls

The real question is: what potions, and how much? Everyone is going to have a different opinion.

[SuperD-710]

Oh they're totally nerfing potions next patch!

Can't say I disagree though. I beat Loghain (with Alistair) with absolutly no tactics but drinking potions when hp got low, and was wondering why there's a huge wall of text on Loghain strategies on the wiki.

[Sleeping_Dragon]

SuperD-710 wrote...

Oh they're totally nerfing potions next patch!
Can't say I disagree though. I beat Loghain (with Alistair) with absolutly no tactics but drinking potions when hp got low, and was wondering why there's a huge wall of text on Loghain strategies on the wiki.

With enough potions you can beat the archdemon naked with a wooden sword..

[Bibdy]

DJoker35 wrote...

The game is "ruined" by that? Try this...don't use the potions. Or use them less often. Problem solved. Game no longer "ruined".

And make Pac-Man harder by occasionally crashing into the ghosts on purpose, causing you to restart more, spending more time on the game and increasing the replayability!

Doesn't work like that. Would you just let your party members die in a battle out of principle of not using a health potion more than once every 30 seconds, only to know you have to reload and try again? I doubt it. You'd just pop the potion and continue on your merry way. If the GAME didn't let you pop the potion more than once every 30 seconds, then you'd feel more joy in beating the encounter, because you EARNED it. You beat the game's mechanics and kicked their ass. You didn't have to resort to self-mutilation to get some gratification...

Its also difficult to impose with mods, because if you find an encounter too challenging with a mod which puts all potions on a 30s shared cooldown, there's nothing stopping you disabling the mod for that fight.

Self-imposed difficulty things like that are a really weak response to what is a flaw in an essential gameplay element. Just because its single-player, doesn't mean you have to impose those kinds of limits on yourself.

The sense of accomplishment is more REAL when its the developer's intent. If you self-impose a limit like that, you're just lying to yourself, really.

And its a bit late for a drastic change, too. Even if they released a patch to make it harder, a lot of people would just complain about it and refuse to install the patch, much like we're seeing with the 1.02 patch with the Cone of Cold and Blizzard changes. My girlfriend doesn't want me to install it on her laptop because she's already having a hard enough time on easy spamming Cone of Cold and Fireballs (usually into her own party...) like a psycho.

Its hard to cater to a wide-range of skill levels, but that's what Hard and Nightmare difficulty were supposed to be for, but they missed the mark by a longshot.

They just need to make Hard and Nightmare mods a HELL of a lot harder in a patch and I think people would be happier with the result.

Modifié par Bibdy, 09 décembre 2009 - 06:51 .

[Sleeping_Dragon]

DJoker35 wrote...

Sleeping_Dragon wrote...

Maybe some smart people can make a mod to increase cooldown on potion?
The developer should have learn from mass effect!
Its too bad a great game ruin by a slight design flaw.

The game is "ruined" by that? Try this...don't use the potions. Or use them less often. Problem solved. Game no longer "ruined".

Easily said, but hard to do when you ingame playing..
Like how do you know when to not drink another potion.... its all on player estimate.. also theres your companion when do they "stop drinking potions".
How are you going to self regulate all this while trying to emerse yourself in the game too?
Takes the emersion right out of the game.

[DragoonKain3]

Seriously, even on nightmare, all I've been chugging are lesser pots. Even if healing has been nerfed, cooldown increased, and/or potion cooldown are shared between all pots of the same kind (ie. health or lyrium), I still have 3 more tiers of pots to fall back on depending on the situation. Things aren't going to change, apart from spending more time making money in order to make the more expensive potions.



Only an outright ban on pots will solve the problem... now the question is, do you want that? Because you know, outright bans on potions would make mages an absolute necessity in the party, as you will not be able to finish the game without at least one healer mage, if even at that. And with so many people already complaining that the game forces you to have mages as it is (it doesn't for the record, just makes it helluva easier), how much more so with an outright ban on potions?

[miltos33]

I agree that there shouldn't be such an abundance of potions in the game.

[Basil_Abdef]

I don't agree with an outright ban, as that would make the already crucial mages into an absolute necessity for just about any encounter. There should be something like a shared cooldown that resets on any potion use, with the better potions increasing that cooldown by significantly more than the less potent ones.

[vicariouscheese]

someones already done the potion cooldown mod

[Sleeping_Dragon]

vicariouscheese wrote...

someones already done the potion cooldown mod

Really.. please provide the link.

[Basil_Abdef]

social.bioware.com/project/667/#details

[Sloth Of Doom]

Meh, I agree that it is too easy to drink potions, but I don't think that a shared cooldown is the answer. The problem isn't the abundance of potions, the problem is how easy it is to use them. I would recommend making the 'drink potion' animation last about three times longer and/or make it so you have to sheath your weapon before drinking a potion. Also, there should be a chance to spill or drop a potion in combat. All of these options could be scaled to the difficulty setting.

[-Solrek-]

I think a cooldown, and a longer one at that, should occur on all potions when you take any potion. This would force me to invest in more powerful potions as I level and discard the weaker ones.



Right now Lesser Heath and Lesser Lyrium is all you need because they can be spammed.

[Bibdy]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Meh, I agree that it is too easy to drink potions, but I don't think that a shared cooldown is the answer. The problem isn't the abundance of potions, the problem is how easy it is to use them. I would recommend making the 'drink potion' animation last about three times longer and/or make it so you have to sheath your weapon before drinking a potion. Also, there should be a chance to spill or drop a potion in combat. All of these options could be scaled to the difficulty setting.

That's an idea. Pull a Severence: Blade of Darkness style system, where you have to pop the potion earlier, or you're going to die, so you can't sit on your ass, waiting for the last second to pop a potion. Its pretty easy to do that right now.

A chance of total failure is a very bad idea, though. Never a good idea to add mechanics like that into a game, where a simple control action of your character fails. All it does is cause frustration. Imagine if there was a 0.1% chance every footstep of your character tripping on a rock and falling over. Would be negligible most of the time, but a seriously royal pain in the ass when it does happen.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

>>>Self-imposed difficulty things like that are a really weak response to what is a flaw in an essential gameplay element. Just because its single-player, doesn't mean you have to impose those kinds of limits on yourself.<<<<



Why? This is a ROLE-PLAYING game. There could be all sorts of reasons why your character would not touch a potion.



Oh, and if you don't steal from everyone the money doesn't so freely to allow you to constantly chug potions.



Also, it is not mandatory for you to buy potions or to create them.



No offense, but if you can't role play you only have yourself to blame.

[Basil_Abdef]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

>>>Self-imposed difficulty things like that are a really weak response to what is a flaw in an essential gameplay element. Just because its single-player, doesn't mean you have to impose those kinds of limits on yourself.

Why? This is a ROLE-PLAYING game. There could be all sorts of reasons why your character would not touch a potion.

Oh, and if you don't steal from everyone the money doesn't so freely to allow you to constantly chug potions.

Also, it is not mandatory for you to buy potions or to create them.

No offense, but if you can't role play you only have yourself to blame.

Rubbish.  Even without purchasing or crafting, potions pile up real fast.  The vast majority of this game is easy enough that no potions are even necessary.

Also, your argument implies we should simply "roleplay" (lawl) away game flaws/imbalances, which is simply ridiculous.

[Sleeping_Dragon]

Basil_Abdef wrote...

social.bioware.com/project/667/#details

Ahh this mod changes to much things about the game.
I just want longer cooldown on potions, not so much the other stuff it has also.
And it requires me to play on nightmare mode also.

Cant they just make a simple mod to increase cooldown on potions...

[Wolfva2]

Out of curiosity, what about the people who find the game to hard as it is? Should they be penalized for not being as good a player as you are? Doesn't seem like a very good business decision...

"Let's see...should we alienate a portion of our player base and lose money on future games just to make some other guy happy when he can simply stop chugging potions? Nah, let's make the game harder so the folks who already complain about how hard it is quit in disgust and never play another Bioware game; we'll make BILLIONS I tell ya! BILLIONS!"

[adam_nox]

This game is hard, keep in mind a lot of people don't mess with the crafting aspects in games, and with how little money you are given if you aren't good, then even on normal you will run out of potions. My first run through I had collected 30 potions, what I thought was a huge number at the time. 2 battles later I had none and was struggling.



Difficulty to some people is playing tank and spank and pretending that they are talented when they are just using methods that more or less exploit sad AI and game design in leiu of potions.



The game is hard enough. Remove friendly fire altogether and make the game easier in general, and maybe a cooldown on pots would be appropriate.

[Nick the Weregoat]

"Its too bad a great game ruin by a slight design flaw."



Use potions only once per cooldown of another ability. Carry less with you. Turn up the difficulty.



I started my Nightmare Rogue last night, and was able to 100% the City Elf intro thanks to proper potion management, and so far I have five of the precious things and I'm almost done with the Korcari Wilds. I consider it a failure if I have to use a potion in battle. I consider it a boon when an opponent drops one.



But yet, the cooldown is pretty lenient. I wouldn't say the game is ruined. I've had my tank get stunned in LOS of the archers, surrounded by melee attackers, then have shattering shot drop his armor to whatever it drops it to. My healer really can't keep up when that happens, and while my tank is ussually stunned, the potions he can eat save his life.