205 réponses à ce sujet

[Merwanor]

adam_nox wrote...

This game is hard, keep in mind a lot of people don't mess with the crafting aspects in games, and with how little money you are given if you aren't good, then even on normal you will run out of potions. My first run through I had collected 30 potions, what I thought was a huge number at the time. 2 battles later I had none and was struggling.

Difficulty to some people is playing tank and spank and pretending that they are talented when they are just using methods that more or less exploit sad AI and game design in leiu of potions.

The game is hard enough. Remove friendly fire altogether and make the game easier in general, and maybe a cooldown on pots would be appropriate.

This game is not hard at all, i rely don't get it. So far i have only played on normal difficulty, i almost never use any potions other than the occasional mana pots. So far i have been selling potions because i find them to be useless, i only keep the big ones. If you got a spirit healer in the group which is essential you should not have any problems. Only place i have had to pop some healing pots is on the large boss battles in the game.

If you find the game to easy or to hard just increase or decrease the difficulty. And if you can't beat this game on easy then i'm sorry to say this, but you rely should learn 2 play.

They will never remove the friendly fire because of some people nagging about difficulty. The game is fine as it is.

[NanoDancer]

Try playing on something other than "casual" !

[Kaosgirl]

Sleeping_Dragon wrote...

I find the biggest drawback to this game, is that potion cooldown is too low.
This allow player to chug down lots of potion during combat and making the game entirely too easy.

I find that's less a problem with the potion-cooldown and more a problem with potions becoming a practically unlimited resource.

[Stitch808]

"I think Lyrium potions should have an addiction scale attached to it"

"I think health potions should only be allowed outside of combat"

"I think all potion cooldowns should be affected by level. Faster cooldowns for lower levels"

"I think health potions should be modified by Con, b/c it's the least used stat"

"I think potions should not be unlimited in nature"



Who really cares what I think...

[Wolfva2]

Merwanor wrote...

adam_nox wrote...

This game is hard, keep in mind a lot of people don't mess with the crafting aspects in games, and with how little money you are given if you aren't good, then even on normal you will run out of potions. My first run through I had collected 30 potions, what I thought was a huge number at the time. 2 battles later I had none and was struggling.

Difficulty to some people is playing tank and spank and pretending that they are talented when they are just using methods that more or less exploit sad AI and game design in leiu of potions.

The game is hard enough. Remove friendly fire altogether and make the game easier in general, and maybe a cooldown on pots would be appropriate.

This game is not hard at all, i rely don't get it. So far i have only played on normal difficulty, i almost never use any potions other than the occasional mana pots. So far i have been selling potions because i find them to be useless, i only keep the big ones. If you got a spirit healer in the group which is essential you should not have any problems. Only place i have had to pop some healing pots is on the large boss battles in the game.

If you find the game to easy or to hard just increase or decrease the difficulty. And if you can't beat this game on easy then i'm sorry to say this, but you rely should learn 2 play.

They will never remove the friendly fire because of some people nagging about difficulty. The game is fine as it is.

Welcome to the real world where experiences may vary.  Sadly, YOU are not the benchline from which all other people spring forth.  There are things you undoubtedly can do better then many of your fellow humans; apparently playing this game is one of them.  However, there are also, undoubtedly, things that OTHER people can do better then you.  Emphasizing with others comes to mind.  Your understanding is not necessary, you only have to accept the fact that for some people the game is harder then it is to you.

[Pocketgb]

DJoker35 wrote...

The game is "ruined" by that? Try this...don't use the potions. Or use them less often. Problem solved. Game no longer "ruined".

One time my arm got cut off so I told the doctor about how much it hurts and he just told me to ignore it.

...

Anyways, while I don't appreciate the spamminess of chugging potions through a dragon fight, I also don't want them removed. "Oh *#%(" buttons are good to have, and thus how I felt potions should've been: more of a last resort kind of deal.

[Wolfva2]

Not a very good allegory Pocket. A better one would be this. I don't like liverwurst. Can't stand it. Therefore, I DEMAND that NO ONE ever make, or sell, liverwurst again. I don't EVER want to smell it when I walk in another deli. Never want to see it on the shelf in the market. They MUST do away with it COMPLETELY. And heck, why wouldn't they? I mean, if *I* don't like it then obviousely no one must like it, right? So who's with me! Down with liverwurst!





Or....I can just liver alone. Which one is the wurst decision? Do away with it completely or ME just avoiding it? Can you exspleen that to me? Do you have the stomach to try?



Sorry about the puns...I know I know. What Gall. But I'm just kidneying around.

[Pocketgb]

Wolfva2 wrote...

Not a very good allegory Pocket...

Well herp-derp no crap. But it was still enough to direct to the point that ignoring problems doesn't solve them.

Whether or not potions are a "problem" is what's up for debate. As evidenced by your meaty example you believe potions to be on the same level of preference. The same cannot be said for others.

[Bibdy]

Wolfva2 wrote...

Out of curiosity, what about the people who find the game to hard as it is? Should they be penalized for not being as good a player as you are? Doesn't seem like a very good business decision...
"Let's see...should we alienate a portion of our player base and lose money on future games just to make some other guy happy when he can simply stop chugging potions? Nah, let's make the game harder so the folks who already complain about how hard it is quit in disgust and never play another Bioware game; we'll make BILLIONS I tell ya! BILLIONS!"

The game is difficult because of the learning curve. DA:O's is pretty steep. If you don't have the right tool for the job, things get worse. For instance, the first area I went to after Ostagar, I had Morrigan as my only mage, without a heal spell. BAD IDEA. I got my ass kicked there and had to resort to cheesey pulling tactics to finish it. Next time through I had a heal spell, I went to a slightly easier zone first, I geared my characters out better, I specced them better, with a more direct purpose than the first time, and completely waltzed through the place.

The game isn't really that hard, its just that the learning curve gives the perception of difficulty when bad item sets, talent selections, a few tactics changes here and there, make all the difference in the world to incoming and outgoing damage.

Once you've learned some of the game's in's and out's (and I'm not talking about pulling cheesey tactics here, just playing the game as intended), it gets a lot easier. At that point its easy to notice how much of a difference being able to chain-chug potions makes to the game. Once you no longer HAVE to pop the things every 10 seconds, like you might have done the first time through the game, you end up stockpiling tons of the things and popping them like Pez when you finally face a difficult fight. But, the cooldown and sheer number you've got gathered up makes what is supposed to be a difficult fight, really trivial.

Modifié par Bibdy, 09 décembre 2009 - 09:24 .

[sandboxgod]

Sleeping_Dragon wrote...

Maybe some smart people can make a mod to increase cooldown on potion?
The developer should have learn from mass effect!
Its too bad a great game ruin by a slight design flaw.

All you have to do is not use the potion.

It's almost the same as saying, "Cheat codes make this game to easy!"

What do you want us to say? Just dont pot. Easy solution. Its a single player game play it the way you want to play it

[Marionetten]

I wouldn't mind seeing a slight nerf to potions as long as it did not force us to rely on healers. I like how you can play with just about any party right now. I'd hate to see that removed by overbalancing potions.

[Pocketgb]

Difference between cheat codes is twofold: 1. they're cheating, as obviously pointed out by the devs, 2. they're never handed out to the players. The devs want you to *know* that you're cheating and that's it's not an intended means of play, hence why they're not simply options in the game's menu and easily obtained.

[Kaosgirl]

Pocketgb wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

Not a very good allegory Pocket...

Well herp-derp no crap. But it was still enough to direct to the point that ignoring problems doesn't solve them.

Sometimes it does, actually.  Particularly for problems that only exist in your own head.

Does this one count as such?  Opinions seem to differ.  Obviously the guys telling you to just ignore the problem likely think it's only a problem for you, and that the best *overall* solution is just to not invoke the problem.

[Kaosgirl]

Pocketgb wrote...

Difference between cheat codes is twofold: 1. they're cheating, as obviously pointed out by the devs, 2. they're never handed out to the players. The devs want you to *know* that you're cheating and that's it's not an intended means of play, hence why they're not simply options in the game's menu and easily obtained.

And that's why they leave the cheat codes in, instead of taking them out completely...

Oh, and you massively underestimate how easy they are to obtain.  

[Bibdy]

sandboxgod wrote...

All you have to do is not use the potion.

It's almost the same as saying, "Cheat codes make this game to easy!"

What do you want us to say? Just dont pot. Easy solution. Its a single player game play it the way you want to play it

The problem with that argument is its the equivalent to saying "using potions every cooldown is cheating!". Its not. Its intended design. But, that intended design makes the game really trivial.

Self-imposed limits don't make the game more fun. They take away from it, because its self-mutilation for the sake of gratification. Its a really old-skool way of playing games. People would play Mario Bros trying to get through it in a  time. To some people that's fun, but its not the 'intended' hard mode for the game, so to many others its not.

If you weren't allowed to use potions every 5 seconds, on different cooldowns, beating an encounter would feel a LOT more rewarding because you played through the game, between the established boundaries, it felt challenging AND you beat it.

I don't see the reason for people's hesitation to make the hard difficulties settings actually HARD. If you don't want the game to be harder than it is, just play easy/normal. What's so wrong about hard/nightmare difficulty actually affecting the game to be a bigger challenge than it is? There's no need to change core game mechanics to make the game harder for those settings, just apply different rules, such as a shared potion cooldown, when you're playing in hard or nightmare setting.

People seem to equate 'make the game harder' with "MAKE EVERYTHING HARDER, AND NOOBS BE DAMNED!!"

Modifié par Bibdy, 09 décembre 2009 - 09:45 .

[Pocketgb]

Kaosgirl wrote...

Sometimes it does, actually.  Particularly for problems that only exist in your own head.

If the problem exists in your head. Sometimes it can do wonders: sometimes people are able to go to such lengthes at ignoring a problem that they transcend into their own little reality, completely void of any problems.

Of course this points to whether or not we're dealing with a problem - hence why such threads exist.

The reason I personally don't like the "don't like it - don't use it" argument is how it can be literally applied to everything. I'd rather see actual reasoning rather than "idc".

Kaosgirl wrote...

Oh, and you massively underestimate how easy they are to obtain.

The message from the devs is still there, though, which is the main point - at least for me. It's the same reason why Rock Band locks you from earning achievements with "no fail mode" on, why change the difficulty setting even once in Mass Effect will void you the achievement for the Insanity playthrough.

Of course it's fun to let-loose a little steam once in awhile and get insta-kills and godmode turned on, but more and more devs are performing methods to better ensure that this is not the preferred method of play.

[Nick the Weregoat]

Pocketgb, I carry a tourniquet in my right calf pocket in case my arm gets cut off. It would work better for the leg though. I'd probably need help applying it to my own arm. I should really get a CAT tourniquet and put that in my left calf pocket...



Thanks for this insight.



gasp! What if my left arm gets cut off? Hrm. This gives me much to consider.



And I just saw this:

From Bibdy:

"If you weren't allowed to use potions every 5 seconds, on different cooldowns, beating an encounter would feel a LOT more rewarding because you played through the game, between the established boundaries, it felt challenging AND you beat it."



Speaking of challenging encounters, this nightmare thing is beating me up. I feel you have to do every fight PERFECTLY in order to not use a potion. I'm still very early in the game (Wilds) on my nightmare rogue, and every battle requires thoughts, tactics (both active and reactive, and no I don't mean the somewhat iffy scripts you program your characters to do, I mean actual tactics), and resource management. I think I currently have 5 potions in my inventory, and I do my best to not use them save in emergencies.



It is really very fun.

[Viglin]

Yah, another thread where someone else must solve the problem.



Dont like em...dont use em.

I know this is the age of "give me"...but come on people, take two seconds to work out how you can solve YOUR problem instead of whining and demanding others fix it.



I dont find the game "too easy", and l rarely have a lot of potions on me...maybe lm too genraous to the npcs l find, maybe l suck at the game......maybe l should DEMAND more potions?



Nah...ll just try to fix the problem myself and not give all my coin away or play a little smarter.



You have options people...and usually its an easier, quicker fix then waiting on a Dev to change things.

[Marionetten]

Nick the Weregoat wrote...

Speaking of challenging encounters, this nightmare thing is beating me up. I feel you have to do every fight PERFECTLY in order to not use a potion. I'm still very early in the game (Wilds) on my nightmare rogue, and every battle requires thoughts, tactics (both active and reactive, and no I don't mean the somewhat iffy scripts you program your characters to do, I mean actual tactics), and resource management. I think I currently have 5 potions in my inventory, and I do my best to not use them save in emergencies.

It is really very fun.

Yeah, Nightmare really is the default setting as far as I'm concerned. Started out on Hard and decided to try Nightmare as I felt it was a little bit easier than expected. Never looked back.

[Pocketgb]

Nick the Weregoat wrote...

Speaking of challenging encounters, this nightmare thing is beating me up. I feel you have to do every fight PERFECTLY in order to not use a potion.

This is what I thought on my first night of playing - on easy.

After that, I felt next to no difference in settings.

Experiences vary.

[Bibdy]

Nick the Weregoat wrote...


Speaking of challenging encounters, this nightmare thing is beating me up. I feel you have to do every fight PERFECTLY in order to not use a potion. I'm still very early in the game (Wilds) on my nightmare rogue, and every battle requires thoughts, tactics (both active and reactive, and no I don't mean the somewhat iffy scripts you program your characters to do, I mean actual tactics), and resource management. I think I currently have 5 potions in my inventory, and I do my best to not use them save in emergencies.

It is really very fun.

I've been playing on Hard for my 3rd playthrough and I honestly haven't seen much difference between normal. The only time its been hard is because I wanted to tag along a certain NPC this time and went to a certain place name that starts with O at level 7/8ish and had to get through a certain difficult encounter just before I could get the person (trying to be vague, due to the spoiler thing). In other words, playing on hard mode, its only felt hard when I was stupidly low level for the encounter.

Self-imposing a 'don't pop potions!' limit on myself just feels wrong (as mentioned before, its a lot more fun if I complete the encounter BETWEEN the intended boundaries, not artificially lying to myself and creating my own), and bumping it up to Nightmare probably isn't going to cause that much of a difference in the game to make it any more challenging.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Basil_Abdef wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

>>>Self-imposed difficulty things like that are a really weak response to what is a flaw in an essential gameplay element. Just because its single-player, doesn't mean you have to impose those kinds of limits on yourself.

Why? This is a ROLE-PLAYING game. There could be all sorts of reasons why your character would not touch a potion.

Oh, and if you don't steal from everyone the money doesn't so freely to allow you to constantly chug potions.

Also, it is not mandatory for you to buy potions or to create them.

No offense, but if you can't role play you only have yourself to blame.

Rubbish.  Even without purchasing or crafting, potions pile up real fast.  The vast majority of this game is easy enough that no potions are even necessary.

Also, your argument implies we should simply "roleplay" (lawl) away game flaws/imbalances, which is simply ridiculous.

Rubish. Without crafting potions are not going to pile up "real fast." And without stealing you won't have hoards of cash to buy crafting materials.

The game system has to allow for:
1) playing on different difficulty levels.
2) playing with differnt combinations of party members.
3) playing with differnt character builds.

If you play through with 3 mages and a tank on Easy your experience will be differnt than if you play through with 4 warriors on Nightmare.

[Wolfva2]

Ok Bibdy, instead of not using potions, howabout not making them? Or buying them? Or looting them? Way I see it, what you're saying is since they're there you HAVE to use them so they should be taken away to eliminate your ability to use them and Bioware MUST do this because you can't do it yourself as it would be wrong and you'd be lying to yourself.



I gotta admit...I'm glad I just play games to have fun! If I put that much thought into it I'd probably be popping tums by the handfull.

[1varangian]

SuperD-710 wrote...

I beat Loghain (with Alistair) with absolutly no tactics but drinking potions when hp got low, and was wondering why there's a huge wall of text on Loghain strategies on the wiki.

I did the same. Cost him around 10 strong potions to beat down an undefeatable opponent. A trained monkey would have beaten Loghain with a stick with enough potions. That's just lame.

Potions have a habit of turning otherwise epic fights into brainless bashdowns, therefore diluting the gaming experience in direct proportion to amount used.

I think it would be a better game if Bioware:

a) made potions far less abundant
 changed potions to improve regeneration instead of instantly healing X amount
c) rebalanced the hardest fights accordingly (some of the human bosses do have ridiculous amounts of HP compared to the PC "heroes" so I would not mind seeing them toned down to believable levels as well)

And to the people suggesting all kinds of self imposed penalties and limitations I would like to say that those do not make the game more enjoyable. Quite on the contrary, so they are not an option. In addition to not using the potions that are in the game you might as well play blindfolded and control the mouse with your foot. It does NOT make the game more enjoyable.

Potions do feel like cheating since the enemy doesn't get to use them.

Modifié par 1varangian, 09 décembre 2009 - 10:48 .

[jivebeaver]

I just open up the ABI base gda and change potion cooldown to 30,60,90, and 120s for each level
ez fix, makes them less of a crutch and the game more fun

Modifié par jivebeaver, 09 décembre 2009 - 11:04 .