205 réponses à ce sujet

[anonygoose]

I can't remember if I've responded in this thread before, but the words "Just don't friggin' use them" springs to mind each time I see it.

[Wolfva2]

Everyone take a deep breath and step back for a moment. I know what the problem here is.



Bibdy? The problem is you seem to believe that you are an average gamer. That YOU are the baseline. Therefore, if something is to easy for you then it must be to easy for everyone and thus it is broken and needs to be fixed. But you're wrong, you aren't the baseline. Apparently, when it comes to DA at least, you are better then most people. The game, thus, is to easy for you. Sadly, that's not the case for a lot of other people.



Now, you have a choice, you can either demand that Bioware change their game and cater to YOUR wishes, and thus alienate the much larger number of players who aren't as good as you, or you can take matters into your own hand and just stop drinking potions. I believe the latter is a better solution. Bioware doesn't alienate the other people who find the game hard or just right, thus keeps them as customers for other games. Altering your play style just a wee bit may make the game more fun for you as well. However, bear in mind that, as a company, Bioware will do what they can for the majority of players, not the minority. Because only by making the majority happy will they stay in business.

[Lataaja00]

I agree that this is an important thing to fix. Potions are an essential part of this game and I don’t suggest removing them. However, the outcome of battles shouldn’t SOLELY depend on the amount of potions you have.  Excessive use of potions also causes another problem. Constitution and willpower are now almost useless since health and mana reserves aren’t needed.

I don’t understand how people can defend so intensely self-imposing rules. With that logic why do we need difficulty levels at all? If the game is too easy just stop using good items, tactics or talents. The problem is that some people (like myself) just don’t like to play stupid if there is an option to play smart. I admit that I haven’t yet played this game on hard or nightmare levels (which I could) but I certainly wouldn’t want to win with the hard difficulty just by abusing potion system.

Modifié par Lataaja00, 10 décembre 2009 - 06:37 .

[Wolfva2]

Well, I dunno. Maybe it's a generational thing. Once upon a time we had to self impose rules. For instance, we'd play war by running around with sticks in our hands going, "BANG BANG! I got ya!" The other guy would clutch his chest and fall down. Or argue you missed. Later, we had games like D&D where we had to use our imaginations. But now? Now games give you everything on a silver platter. And, much like the glutton at a banquet who feels he MUST eat that last thin mint for no other reason then it's there, we weakly reach out with our stubby, obese arm to grasp all the potions because, hey, they're there! And, much like the fat man, we complain it's not OUR fault we're fat! Why, it's THEIR fault for putting us in a situation where we MUST eat everything and thus gain weight. Therefore, THEY have to fix things by taking food away from us because WE shouldn't have to be bothered doing it ourselves.



Once upon a time we lived willingly with self imposed rules. Now? Now we demand someone else do everything for us.

[Lughsan35]

Easy solution don't use them..

[Kaosgirl]

Wolfva2 wrote...

Everyone take a deep breath and step back for a moment. I know what the problem here is.

Bibdy? The problem is you seem to believe that you are an average gamer. That YOU are the baseline. Therefore, if something is to easy for you then it must be to easy for everyone and thus it is broken and needs to be fixed. But you're wrong, you aren't the baseline. Apparently, when it comes to DA at least, you are better then most people. The game, thus, is to easy for you. Sadly, that's not the case for a lot of other people.

Actually, no.  I think Bibdy's problem is that he's giving the impression of fitting the above, when his real complaint is that the jump between Hard and Nightmare is trivial.  

Adjustments to Nightmare won't alienate "the baseline," who we presume are satisfied with Normal and maybe jumping to Hard.  It'll only affect those who play on Nightmare, and maybe the wannabes who are thinking of moving to that level.

Whether that would alienate anyone or not depends entirely on whether  his complaint (about the difference being negligible) has merit or not.  I couldn't say for sure - I haven't played nightmare, haven't even really finished the game at any level yet.  (Quit my normal games to move to Hard after hearing claims that the features implemented on Hard were the intended equivelant of BG's "Core Rules," which was my preferred level in that game.)

[Bibdy]

Could you all just STOP making suggestions and excuses for the game for a minute and think about this in a logical manner?



You've got lots of newcomers to the game saying its too hard and you've got lots of people on their 2nd playthrough saying its really easy. The learning curve is very steep, ergo, newcomers are going to find the game difficult, but once you learn the tricks and how to properly gear, build a character yada yada, the game gets MUCH easier. Trivial? Not necessarily, depends on your skill level.



You've also got self-proclaimed average players (not just myself saying this, and seriously, if anyone considers my gaming level to be elite in any way, god help you) finding hard AND nightmare trivially different to easy/normal mode. Look at the actual changes between difficulty settings on this page and tell me how on earth the game is going to dramatically change when you go from Normal to Nightmare?



http://dragonage.gul....php/difficulty



5% spell resist instead of 1.5%? The game doesn't give you as many potions? You lose 5 attack, 5 defense and 1 damage? Party members take 5% more damage? Heals are 15% less effective?



Where's the "OH GOD THIS GAME IS INSANELY HARD, NOW!" factor?



So, rather than acknowledge it as a flaw in the game, something that could be addressed in a future patch, or in the next installment of the game (expansion, sequel, whatever), to keep Easy/Normal at this level, but provide a greater challenge for Hard/Nightmare, you'd all rather just ignore it as a problem, proclaim the game as 100% perfect and fine, and the person's opinion null and void because "just don't use those potions". I don't get it. The forums are filled with fanatics. I love the game as much as the next guy, but this utter and complete blind devotion is ... disturbing.

[Kaosgirl]

Lataaja00 wrote...
I don’t understand how people can defend so intensely self-imposing rules. With that logic why do we need difficulty levels at all? If the game is too easy just stop using good items, tactics or talents. The problem is that some people (like myself) just don’t like to play stupid if there is an option to play smart.

So... what you want is to have that option to play smart taken away (whether literally by physically taking it away, or indirectly by nerfing it to the point where it gives no advantage over playing dumb) so you're not tempted by it?

[Bibdy]

Oh and for the record, I've been playing with a self-imposed limit tonight, I made a Mage without any healing spells and pumping all skill points in Stealing and Coercion, (i.e. no Herbalism) as the only mage in my group, so I'm using healing potions as intended (which makes me happy), playing a group as intended (which makes me happy) and expecting things to be a bit tougher (which makes me happy). Lo and behold, its still easy.

So, what do I do now, carry around a stopwatch and time exactly 30 seconds from my last potion usage? That sure sounds fun...

Man, these self-imposed limitations are just BUCKETS of fun.

Modifié par Bibdy, 10 décembre 2009 - 07:02 .

[Jormungand3r]

Why is everyone raging on potions when its Wynne that trivializes encounters? The fact Wynne is optional makes it so there has to be alternatives to healing for those who made game choices that make her unavailable. If potions didnt have a low cooldown all melee or dps mage parties would be nearly unplayable which would limit people's options on how they want to play which i think would go over a lot more poorly with the player base then the way things are now.

[Lughsan35]

You could stop pausing to take turn based actions and play real time.. that should be difficult enough eh?

[Kaosgirl]

Bibdy wrote...

Could you all just STOP making suggestions and excuses for the game for a minute and think about this in a logical manner?

What makes you think we didn't?

Oh, right.  We didn't just blindly agree with everything you said...

Bibdy wrote...
 I love the game as much as the next guy, but this utter and complete blind devotion is ... disturbing.

Destructive criticism doesn't really do anything other than fan the heat of antagonism between the haters and the fanbois.  

[Kaosgirl]

Bibdy wrote...
Man, these self-imposed limitations are just BUCKETS of fun.

And they're soooooo much different when the devs impose them on you instead.  Because then it's "as intended" or something, which just changes *everything.*

[Wolfva2]

That's because she's 100% pure Wynne. Actually, I never much cared for using her; not much offensive capability if you use her as she is. But then again, she IS mostly healer.



Bibdy, the problem is you're not really looking at things logically, but subjectively. You're to close to the situation. You see the way things are for you, and you assume that's how they are for everyone else. That's not necessarily true. Though I will freely agree that nightmare isn't exactly nightmare; I've been playing it on my second go around and it doesn't seem much harder then hard. But then again, what exactly does nightmare mean anyways? That the mobs have more HP? I'd rather see better tactics. But that's just me, and I'm not about to assume everyone agrees with me, or that Bioware should cater to me. As in life, individual results may vary. What I find easy, someone else would find hard. Why should I ruin their fun?



I've been thinking. People keep decrying unlimited potions. Where in the name of Hades are they coming from?!? Because I know I don't have unlimited potions. I got 10 lyrium and I think 7 healing pots left. So where are these unlimited potions coming from? Lessee, there are 3 or so merchants in different towns that have an unlimited supply of 1 reagent. So, if people visit those merchants and stock up on them then yes, they'll have basically unlimited potions. Me? I have better things to do with my game time then visiting merchants to hoard reagents so I can later complain about having to many potions. Instead, I use what I find or make off materials I discover and am always running out. My point being...if you're complaining about unlimited potions and you're running around making sure you HAVE unlimited potions...well, YOU are the problem. Not the game. You don't HAVE to keep stocking up on everything ya know. What's the next complaint going to be? "I keep buying every single dagger I see and now I don't have any inv. slots and it's BIOWARES FAULT for making so many daggers and they MUST fix this problem!!!"

[Deflagratio]

Water Sources Trivialize Fallout 3.

Fingers and/or Toes Trivializes Oblivion.

Materia Trivializes Final Fantasy 7.

Force Storm Trivializes KotoR1-2.

8Gauge Slug rounds trivialize Elephant hunting.





You'll get over it. The Simple fact that you can sell potions means you have some incentive to not use them, that's better balancing than pretty much anything else.

[Schyzm]

Kaosgirl wrote...

Bibdy wrote...
Man, these self-imposed limitations are just BUCKETS of fun.

And they're soooooo much different when the devs impose them on you instead.  Because then it's "as intended" or something, which just changes *everything.*

yes because then it's an actual well designed game that can be played while having fun and trying to be smart.  afterwards you can even talk to your friends about it and how their experiences were.

bunches of "self imposed limitations" turns into a clusterfck of useless crap that you can discuss with no1 and is essentially meaningless.  besides you know, being poorly designed.

[Wolfva2]

Kaosgirl wrote...

Bibdy wrote...
Man, these self-imposed limitations are just BUCKETS of fun.

And they're soooooo much different when the devs impose them on you instead.  Because then it's "as intended" or something, which just changes *everything.*

See, that's what I don't understand.  Why are people DEMANDING that someone ELSE impose limits on them?  I would much rather have self imposed limits then someone else telling me what I can or can not do.  Potions are an option; instead of demanding that we have fewer options why not just...opt out voluntarily?  

[Bibdy]

Because my self-imposed limits don't make a fun game...



Game developers JOBS are to create fun games. Really. That's part of the job description. They'd do a much better job of creating a balanced and fun system to play with than I can with a stopwatch and jamming my hand in the door if I break my own rules.

[Chalenheri]

Schyzm wrote...

bunches of "self imposed limitations" turns into a clusterfck of useless crap that you can discuss with no1 and is essentially meaningless.  besides you know, being poorly designed.

Uh, how about "Bioware gives you the option to use them". The options were: Limit potions and have 20% of the community complaining, because the game is too hard. On the other hand they could limit the potions (or shut of doors during fights) forcing the player to do it "Bioware's way". 

I think they did a good job. There are people out there who soloed the game on nightmare. On the other hand some can't finish the game on easy. The difference in skill is simply too great to satisfy everyone.

 

[Deflagratio]

Wolfva2 wrote...

Kaosgirl wrote...

Bibdy wrote...
Man, these self-imposed limitations are just BUCKETS of fun.

And they're soooooo much different when the devs impose them on you instead.  Because then it's "as intended" or something, which just changes *everything.*

See, that's what I don't understand.  Why are people DEMANDING that someone ELSE impose limits on them?  I would much rather have self imposed limits then someone else telling me what I can or can not do.  Potions are an option; instead of demanding that we have fewer options why not just...opt out voluntarily?  

Some people need to increase their WILLPOWER score I guess?

Honestly, in this age of retarded "U IS SPECIAL CAN MAKE GAEMZ TOO SEE?" titles like LIttle Big Planet, everyone thinks they're a game designer, and their word is the word of Balgafor, the God of Gaming. There, are certainly some merits to some arguments though. Some players do want a harder experience, and that's what difficulty settings are for. But currently, there still seems to be this obligation from game developers, that even on the hardest difficulty, everyone needs to be ABLE to beat it. Really, if any developer can beat their game on the hardest difficulty, it's too easy. The fact of the matter is the Gaming public, is more skilled and more devoted to playing the game. The only Team that seemed to acknowledge that was Epic Games.


But It's important to realize when something is Broken from a balance Standpoint (Taunt+Force Field, Cone of Cold, ManaClash, Shimmering Shield) and when things are just powerful. (Crushing Prison, Blizzard, Inferno, Storm Of The Century).

Essentially, It's broken if there is No counter. There was no counter to Force Field. It was unlimited vulnrability permanently sustained. Cone of Cold allowed instant shatter of entire swarms of enemies, Manaclash Is a guaranteed 1 shot on any non-Elite boss mage (And a 95% chance on those) with no charge time, no penalty, and a fairly short cooldown.

I would support an Increased cooldown timer on health poltices/Lyrium potions for Nightmare Mode only, but honestly, Even without wynne, a decent Tank build and a Mage with Heal/Regeneration and Blood Mage specialaztion is an unlimited healing vessel. You say potions trivialize the game, but in fact, Potions make it possible to actually play without a mage, it's an option, if an expensive one.

Modifié par Deflagratio, 10 décembre 2009 - 07:36 .

[Wolfva2]

Bibdy wrote...

Because my self-imposed limits don't make a fun game...

Game developers JOBS are to create fun games. Really. That's part of the job description. They'd do a much better job of creating a balanced and fun system to play with than I can with a stopwatch and jamming my hand in the door if I break my own rules.

Then stop worrying about it and just enjoy the game.  Sheesh, you talk about 'self imposed limits' as if you MUST drive a railroad spike through your testicles each time.  Dude.  It is a GAME.  Stop overthinking it and just enjoy yourself.  Instead of DEMANDING that the devs alter potions, take them off your quick bar. 

You wanted to talk logic, before accusing anyone of disagreeing with of not being logical.  Well, here is logic for you.

Potions are not needed=characrters took little damage=game to easy
Potions are needed=characters took damage=fight was hard
potions needed but not available=dead characters=not fun

You're complaining that potions are to easy to pop.  Thus, you must need potions.  If you need potions, your people have been taking deletorious amounts of damage and thus the fight must have been hard.  If you could not take the potions, you would have died, thus meaning the fight was to hard; most people find dying to not be fun.  Therefore, your fights have been hard, you needed to pop potions to survive them, and your complaint is completely illogical.

[TastyLaksa]

DJoker35 wrote...

Sleeping_Dragon wrote...

Maybe some smart people can make a mod to increase cooldown on potion?
The developer should have learn from mass effect!
Its too bad a great game ruin by a slight design flaw.

The game is "ruined" by that? Try this...don't use the potions. Or use them less often. Problem solved. Game no longer "ruined".

People prefer complaining. They will say "Don;t expect me to not use something that's in the game!"

Same for every other "exploit" in the games. Guess what after bioware listens and nerfs something. Someone else complains about the nerf and how they are "NOT GOING TO PATCH THE GAME!"

[Pseron Wyrd]

Bibdy wrote...
Because my self-imposed limits don't make a fun game...

Self-imposed limits are what roleplaying is all about. For instance in this game my 'good' characters return a certain lockbox to its owner; my 'bad' characters sell the contents of the lockbox for coin. The action my 'good' character takes is a self-imposed limitation: I lose out on making money. But roleplaying requires me to forfeit that money when playing that character.

My good characters will also not pick pockets or pick locks. In these cases I'm limiting not only my income but also gaining less experience. But that's what happens when a person roleplays: they are going to make decisions based on their character's background and personality - and that means that some actions are not going to be available when playing that character. 

Modifié par Pseron Wyrd, 10 décembre 2009 - 11:54 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Bibdy wrote...

Because my self-imposed limits don't make a fun game...

Game developers JOBS are to create fun games. Really. That's part of the job description. They'd do a much better job of creating a balanced and fun system to play with than I can with a stopwatch and jamming my hand in the door if I break my own rules.

To me Dragon Age is the most fun role-playing game to come along in a long time.

From reading your posts I get the impression that role-playing games don't really suit you.

Oh yeah, I notinced in your self-imposed limits you did not stop stealing. Stop stealing, stop crafting, and stop asking for quest rewards/extorting money and you'll then not have the money to buy tons of pots so you'll not be complaining about pots.

Oh yeah, you didn't say your party make up.

Power gaming destroys fun in a role playing game, at least for me.

How about playing through nightmare as a solo mage. Non-arcane warior? I haven't seen anyone post that they have been able to accomplish that yet.

Oh yeah, some people also use a certain crafting exploit to make infinite money. Game killer.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 10 décembre 2009 - 12:53 .

[Matthew Young CT]

1) normal -> nightmare is hardly a difference.

2) some people find the game much too easy

3) some other people find the game hard

Solution: make nightmare a lot harder, don't make normal harder. both sides win



the difference between normal and nightmare is trivial if you bother to understand the game mechanics. it makes hard/nightmare pretty much pointless