205 réponses à ce sujet

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

There's a lot that can change and you can discover and enjoy, strategically, just from a jump in difficulty.

Dude, if you are not happy with the difficulty and refuse to use existing mods or to lean to use the editor to make a mod, I don't know what to tell you. The developers can't please everyone but they provided a way to make mods to alter game play if you want to. How difficult a "difficulty level" should be is purely subjective.



Oh, and I also suggested that you try to play the game solo as a mge (not an arcane warrior) and see if that is difficult enough for you on Nightmare without crafting exploits and such.So far as I know no one else has pulled it off so you could be the first to crow about it.

[Bibdy]

I don't like playing a game like this solo. Never tried it in BG2 and I'm not going to start now. I like having a large group with a lot of versatility and group dynamics to explore. Its a group-based game, afterall.

Last night I tried without any healing spells, but still using potions to excess (without using Herbalism, either) and still find it pretty simple. That's about the extent to which I'm going to force myself into a different playstyle for the time being, while silently waiting for someone to make a difficulty mod that doesn't incorporate some crazy ideas that I don't agree with. Or maybe Bioware will patch in some changes to Hard/Nightmare mode. Either way, its not like I'm going to shelf the game or anything. I still want to play through with some of the NPCs, try different plot directions etc. so that's where I'm going to get my fun for now. The combat is just going to remain a little stale.

I'm not looking for a quick fix to this problem...I'm not asking for suggestions to make my gameplay tonight, tomorrow, this weekend, any more challenging. I'm simply stating that Hard and Nightmare miss the benchmark completely and they should fix that in the future. As someone who loves the game, but is still capable of critical thinking, and always finds hard/nightmare modes in games to be a significant jump in difficulty and the changes in difficulty setting in DA:O amounting to some +/-5% changes here and there, I feel I have good cause to make such a claim.

Modifié par Bibdy, 10 décembre 2009 - 05:42 .

[soteria]

themaxzero wrote...


What can I say? Maybe you are just that good that you are completely beyond the game.

Maybe your definition of nightmare differs from that of the Developers.The fact is no matter how hard the game is there will always been someone who says "Its too easy!". Who does Bioware listen too?

I think, from the general reception the game has received around the web, your views seem to be in the minority. Your a niche of in a game that is already a niche.

Its possible that Bioware could listen to your pleas but perhaps it's something you may have to change yourself.

Ah.  So, with two or three of us on the "rebalance" side, and two or three of you on the "it's fine" side in this thread, clearly we are the "niche" and you are the majority.

Besides, we're talking about nightmare difficulty.  The people complaining the game is too hard are mostly playing on normal.  Because, y'know, when people play on hard or nightmare they expect a challenge.  As for whether our vision of nightmare differs from that of the Developers, I quote from the Missing Manual.  "Nightmare is for the clinically insane."  Clearly hyperbole, but intended to make a point.  A longer quote:

A word about Nightmare difficulty




Nightmare difficulty is designed to provide a challenge to players not
content with the challenges that the hard difficulty setting is
offering. This mode is punishingly hard and requires the player to
understand all aspects of the game in order to overcome their enemies.
A well planned character and optimized playthrough path are required to
succeed in this mode.

I agree with their vision of nightmare.  Unfortunately, it's just not like that.

[soteria]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

 You're basically saying I need to "RP" a worse party to make the game interesting.  What if for RP reasons I *want* two mages?  What if for RP reasons I *want* to rob everyone blind and extort money?  I enjoy RP.  You're basically saying I only get to be challenged if I change my character concept.  Think about it.

No, some builds and compositions of parties will ALWAYS be easier than others. Dragon Age is easier if you steal and extort money because then you can buy great stuff for yourself AND for your party members AND afford lots of crafting materials. If you play a good character who gives money to others and does not steal/extort money you will have less money to buy stuff with. Pretty simple.

So, like I said, you're not saying to RP the way I want, you're saying, "Play the game for a challenge or RP the way you want.  Pick one, cause you can't have both."

Until that happens, I think there are mods that limit potion spamming. Download one and see if it will make you happy if what the developers do doesn't make you happy.

I've tried them, and they break the tactics.

You are basicly saying the game should be balanced based on playing an evil party that steals, extorts, and exploits.

I said ROLE PLAY WHAT YOU WANT and let others role play what they want. Don't demand that the game be changed to make your method of play the only viable method of play in the game. 

This is a great role playing game.

Mmm, no, where did I say or even imply that?  You're just creating a straw man because you can't deal with what I'm saying.  Honestly you have to do some serious twisting of my words to get that.  First you said "well it's challenging if you play a GOOD character," and I said, "No, not really, unless your good character is also an idiot.  Besides, why should I be forced to RP a good character to get a challenge?"  You really need to think about what you're saying.

I really don't care how you play.  If you don't want a challenge, play on normal.  Is it so horrible to want nightmare mode to be a challenge?  Where do you get off thinking that my suggesting that nighmare mode is too easy and should be harder is "demanding the game be changed to make my method of play the only viable method."  Are you serious?  Or just trolling me? 

I agree, this is a great role playing game.  It's just not a challenging one after you learn the ropes.  You keep going on about the RP in this game, and then turn around and make suggestions to us that completely destroy the RP aspect.  "Play solo.  Play good characters."  So... as I said in the beginning, you're saying we can RP, or get a challenge; pick one?  If all I wanted was a challenge, and didn't care about RP, I'd go try assassin's creed 2 or something.

Modifié par soteria, 10 décembre 2009 - 05:53 .

[themaxzero]

Ultimately no one engaged because they can't. When you say "From my experiences this game is too easy." What exactly is anyone meant to say?



If your feel the game is too easy then its too easy. How on Earth can I argue with your personal opinion?



At this point there is three outcomes:



a) You change your opinion.

Someone releases a Mod that just changes the Nightmare damage scaler from 5% to 50% (surely someone can do this basic request?).

c) Bioware change the difficulties.



I can't give you the solution (since I couldn't find the .xls file that had the data I wanted either).

[Bibdy]

Why is it necessary to argue? Why can't I just express my opinion and people discuss the difficulty setting with their own experience and end up either agreeing or disagreeing, rather than picking apart everything I say, convoluting the message or offering up a barrage of suggestions I don't want?



I understand people's desire to ensure everyone here enjoys the game as much as them (we wouldn't be posting here if we didn't), but I'm not having trouble enjoying the game. Far, far from it, but I'm having trouble finding a challenge in difficulty settings. Difficulty settings that, by their own description, sound like they offer a major difference in gameplay, but, in my opinion, offer up some very small tweaks to the game's calculations.



Have you tried hard or nightmare? What has been your experience with it?

[themaxzero]

soteria wrote...

Ah.  So, with two or three of us on the "rebalance" side, and two or three of you on the "it's fine" side in this thread, clearly we are the "niche" and you are the majority.

Do you really think that people who seek to play the hardest at the highest difficulty level and always seek the maximum challenge are the majority or even average player? Average by its very definition isn't nightmare (or even hard).

[CBGB]

Sleeping_Dragon wrote...
I find the biggest drawback to this game, is that potion cooldown is too low.
This allow player to chug down lots of potion during combat and making the game entirely too easy.

Then... don't use them more often then you like?

Of all the things Bioware could change in the game, the ones under your control must be the least pressing.

[themaxzero]

Bibdy wrote...

Why is it necessary to argue? Why can't I just express my opinion and people discuss the difficulty setting with their own experience and end up either agreeing or disagreeing, rather than picking apart everything I say, convoluting the message or offering up a barrage of suggestions I don't want?

I understand people's desire to ensure everyone here enjoys the game as much as them (we wouldn't be posting here if we didn't), but I'm not having trouble enjoying the game. Far, far from it, but I'm having trouble finding a challenge in difficulty settings. Difficulty settings that, by their own description, sound like they offer a major difference in gameplay, but, in my opinion, offer up some very small tweaks to the game's calculations.

Have you tried hard or nightmare? What has been your experience with it?

A playthrough at normal (twice), hard and nightmare. There was an increase in difficulty (not a massive but there). I had fun in all 3 playthroughs.

Reading through the earlier posts there seems to be another case "I need Bioware validation for my game choices" developing in this thread.

The sense of accomplishment is more REAL when its the developer's intent.

No it really isn't.

Modifié par themaxzero, 10 décembre 2009 - 06:18 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

First you said "well it's challenging if you play a GOOD character," and I said, "No, not really, unless your good character is also an idiot. Besides, why should I be forced to RP a good character to get a challenge?" You really need to think about what you're saying.

Dude, it is just a game. There is no reason to twist my words. It is quite obvious that there will always be an optimal character build and party set up, which is what I ihave said. The game will be easier with that party and method of play.



It is obvious that if you steal, extort, and exploit you will have more gold and so the game will be easier for you. If you steal/extort/exploit don't complain that you can buy too many potions. You chose the easy path. If you only like to role play bad guys, download or make a mod that makes stealing, extorting, and exploiting less profitable and more costly when you get caught. Or make one yourself. Oh and don't use a mod that makes stealing not have a cooldown in combat.



No, I'm not a troll, contrary to your implication. I also don't want to trade insults like a 5 year old so perhaps we could keep the discussion civil, eh?

You keep going on about the RP in this game, and then turn around and make suggestions to us that completely destroy the RP aspect. "Play solo. Play good characters." So... as I said in the beginning, you're saying we can RP, or get a challenge; pick one? If all I wanted was a challenge, and didn't care about RP, I'd go try assassin's creed 2 or something.

Totally wrong dude. I said you role play what you want and let eveyone else role play what they want. It is just if you role play an evil guy who steals, extorts, and exploits then you are chosing a path that will result in easier game play due to you having more money than someone playing a good character.



I did suggets some methods of play that would make the game harder for those complaining the game is easy. If the game is indeed as easy as a couple of you are saying, you should be able to breeze through nightmare as a solo mage (not arcane warrior.)



Anyways, there are mods to increase difficulty. If you don't like them and refuse to make your own, I guess you'll just have to keep saying how easy the game is.

I really don't care how you play. If you don't want a challenge, play on normal.

Actually, my first playthrough was on hard but I'm playing on nightmare now. If you want to make the game easier by stealing/extortion/exploitation, that is your right.



Let me know when you do the solo mage playthrough on Nighmare. Not arcane warrior. Please keep detailed notes about it and write up a detailed leveling guide for it. I haven't tried it but I'm sure such an awesome player will have no trouble getting it done in a few days since the game is easy street on Nighmare.

[XOGHunter246]

If there was no potions people would complain so what do people want bioware to do they can't keep everyone happy.

[Bibdy]

themaxzero wrote...

A playthrough at normal (twice), hard and nightmare. There was an increase in difficulty (not a massive but there). I had fun in all 3 playthroughs.

Reading through the earlier posts there seems to be another case "I need Bioware validation for my game choices" developing in this thread.

The sense of accomplishment is more REAL when its the developer's intent.

No it really isn't.

Says who? Its more real to me. So my opinion is immediately discounted because it disagrees with your own?

And that still has nothing to do with them figuring that some +/- 5% modifiers here and there were going to keep the challenge seekers happy.

That's just plain false. Did they think that a challenge-seeker is only 5% better than the average player? Would only appreciate a 5% increase in difficulty, and the game would be too impossible beyond that?

Its really not. The changes are miniscule and there's a problem there.

Modifié par Bibdy, 10 décembre 2009 - 06:37 .

[JO2D4N]

Whew! This seems to be a hotly debated topic but also one I don't fully understand. "How hard do people want this game to be?" is the first question, albeit with a bemused look on my face, that springs to mind.



I have yet to encounter large gaps in the game where I find myself thinking, "Jeez, this is getting so boring, when will I ever get to another challenging moment?" Of course, there are the occassional battles where I win easily but, then again, I am sure that the game wasn't meant to whip me at every turn be it by Thugs or Giant Dragons.



All in all, this game has proven a challenging one. Granted it is not as challenging as playing Bobby Fisher in a timed chess match but, I find, I am never always certain of victory and that suits me just fine. I am just happy that this isn't along the lines of Fable II which, for you hardcore gamers, was like walking through a field of pansies. How that game got better reviews than this one, I'll never understand.



By the way, I never cheat or mod.

[Aesir Rising]

If Nightmare mode changes were limited to that which can be changed in difficulty.xls than I'd support it. I might even try it. But I don't want to see specific things targeted (like certain spell cooldowns or whatnot or to make boss monsters immune to CC spells).

If you want to change difficulty settings, then change difficulty settings - don't look to balance a potion type here, and a spell there - because those things aren't part of the game's difficulty options.

Separately, Grumpy Old Wizard, you can bury your head in the sand re: competition in this game, but it's there in your face.  Every time you unlock an Achievement (and it even gives you points for scoring purposes!), and upload it to the site, every time a storyline screenie gets auto-shot and uploaded, every time you look at the in-game character UI panel "Heroic Achievements" I think it's called) and enjoy reading all those stats that get tracked, you're measuring your 'success'.  And while I agree people are competitive or anti-competitive to varying degrees, I think you're reasoning is flawed if you don't think this game is designed to incorporate competition features.  Hell, it launched with a tournament... A single player game tournament with cash money prizes.  Sorry, but the facts are in my favor.  Don't get hung up on losing an argument though.  The only reason I posted what I did was to provide an explaination and rational answer to the question about why folks would want to see Bioware make some changes to the game difficulty.  I don't even necessarily support the changes mentioned in the topic, but I'm objective enough to understand why they'd want Bioware to do it 'officially' rather than through a self-made mod.

Modifié par Aesir Rising, 10 décembre 2009 - 08:16 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Separately, Grumpy Old Wizard, you can bury your head in the sand re: competition in this game, but it's there in your face. Every time you unlock an Achievement (and it even gives you points for scoring purposes!), and upload it to the site, every time a storyline screenie gets auto-shot and uploaded, every time you look at the in-game character UI panel "Heroic Achievements" I think it's called) and enjoy reading all those stats that get tracked, you're measuring your 'success'. And while I agree people are competitive or anti-competitive to varying degrees, I think you're reasoning is flawed if you don't think this game is designed to incorporate competition features. Hell, it launched with a tournament... A single player game tournament with cash money prizes. Sorry, but the facts are in my favor. Don't get hung up on losing an argument though.

Sorry, but declaring yourself the winner of a debate does not make you the winner. Bury your head in the sand and ignore that fact if you wish.

Like I said, in order for it to be a legitimate competition between players, the saved games would have to be saved on a bioware server and made such tht the player could not cheat. Otherwise there is no wy of knowing who played legitimately and who did not and who played with the aid of mods that made the game easier.

Sorry, this is a single plyer role playing game. You are competing only against yourself.

I also play Galactic Civilizations. In single player games you still get scores. I play Heroes of Might and Magic. In single player you still get scores. Having a "score" for your game does not mean you are competing with anyone else.

Single player = compete against yourself.
Multiplayer = compete against other players.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 10 décembre 2009 - 08:32 .

[Aesir Rising]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Sorry, but declaring yourself the winner of a debate does not make you the winner. Bury your head in the sand and ignore that fact if you wish.
 

I specifically declare victory since

* the game has included competition features
* the developers have run a competitive tournament
* players posting in this thread expressed that they want a standards-based metric in the form of a Bioware update to the difficulty modes in this game in order to provide some baseline for comparison.  To make it all seem more 'official".

 


So.... what gives?  Exactly what is it you're denying?  That the game and/or the players aren't competitive?  I declare myself victor with facts to back it up.  As far as I've read, you've just denying what others are saying.  Where are your facts that show the game has no competition features, has no one interesting in tracking success/achievement metrics and points, doesn't want to establish a baseline standard for comparison ideally through a disinterested 3rd party (logically, Bioware)  and doesn't like to compare their game successes with others via this website and its online profile features (which fail for me)?

Even MacArthur knew when to retreat.  This isn't forum bravado either, I'm pretty sure you are purposely being ignorant because you don't want to see your game impacted.  And that's fine - but we need to be clear about that or no progress will be made in the discussion.  Because I'm pretty sure there's a way to discuss changes to difficulty that DO NOT screw you in half.

As an example, I don't support most of what I've read from Matthew Young CT as far as specific changes he's espoused.  He's posted elsewhere (1.02 topics) about specific spell nerfs he wants all in the name of making Nightmare mode harder.  But those changes have zero to do with the game's difficulty settings defined in the difficulty xls table (difficulty.xls) and (worse, imo) he wants to nullify crowd control spells versus elite or boss MOBs.  I scream 'No" to that.  But, on the other hand, if he wants to pump up spell resists in difficulty.xls (or ask Bioware to do these things) then, that's more acceptable to me because they're systemic changes that don't target specific character builds or limit tactical options for certiain playstyles and characters.  So, for this discussion I say, "hey can we focus on difficulty.xls settings?" and avoid "Make Lyrium disappear or rare" nerfs - since among other things, they target specific characters/builds (mages).

Modifié par Aesir Rising, 10 décembre 2009 - 09:11 .

[Wolfva2]

Aesir, you're both right. However, this game has the ability to be competitive, but that's not it's focus. There is no prize, and Bioware isn't running any contests about who can get what the fastest. Any competition here is strictly at the player's behest. Not all of us care; I'd hazard a guess most of us just play the game as a single player game and couldn't care less what other people do or think...except when they argue that the game should be changed to fit what they want.



Remember this; fighting on the internet is like competing in the special olympics. You may win the gold, but you're still retarded.



I have come to the conclusion that there is one thing I agree with Bibdy on...that Nightmare really isn't nightmarish. I'd like to see a far better AI, but I'm not sure if one exists to the standards I'd want to play against. And if it did...it'd probably take over Skynet and unleash terminators on us.

[Bibdy]

So, if anyone who's been following this thread is interested, I took the time to figure out how to modify the 2DA files and made a mod which increases the difficulty settings of Hard and Nightmare to something a little more frightening, but in a simple manner, by only changing spell/damage reductions of players and enemies and healing output, without building some crazy system, changing AI, nerfing spells and what-have-you.



Here's the link:



http://social.biowar...m/project/1280/

[Sylixe]

So i went back and experimented on some older saves tonight.



I cannot even begin to understand where people can say this game is even remotely difficult on normal. I used in game scripting to defeat almost every main boss in this game excluding a few that required AI that was not available just to see if you could. That means i sat and watched the game play ITSELF and kick its own ass! People cannot honestly be saying that the AI is smarter than they are? There's no learning curve in that other than your understanding of basic game mechanics. Stop saying this game is hard even for a first timer because it's not.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

@Bibdy

I haven't tried your mod but I think the 50% stuff on nightmare will turn out to be excessive. Your hard level would probably be ok for nightmare and half of that for hard. But that is just a gut feel of what is realisticly possible for the player to handle without being totally frustrated..

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 11 décembre 2009 - 04:59 .

[Bibdy]

Never claimed it was 100% playtested, nor beatable

[DragoonKain3]

I cannot even begin to understand where people can say this game is even remotely difficult on normal...People cannot honestly be saying that the AI is smarter than they are? There's no learning curve in that other than your understanding of basic game mechanics. Stop saying this game is hard even for a first timer because it's not.

*facepalm*

Major complaint from reviewers about the game was that it was too hard even at the lower difficulties. First few weeks, a lot of threads were opened saying that the game was too hard even at easy. This forces Bioware to further nerf easy/normal to fix this issues, and even then you still get the occasional thread in which the game is STILL too hard.

Is it so hard to comprehend that one cannot consider themselves to be the 'baseline' in which to compare the general populace with? Seriously, not everyone plays DAO in order to 'beat the system', but just to enjoy the story and/or RP.

[WKWBlank]

Play on Nightmare mode, you won't be saying that potions make the game too easy.

[Bibdy]

Edit: Nevermind, didn't actually read the hostility of the other guy's post.

Modifié par Bibdy, 11 décembre 2009 - 06:29 .

[Zarenthar]

Even on my first playthrough ( Nightmare) I didn't use that much potions and a mere handful of poultices... Like 20-30 max during the whole game and a dozen poultices. Very fun game but not all t hat challenging.