139 réponses à ce sujet

[th3warr1or]

I don't get it. What is it about becoming a developer that makes them lose all the bright and interesting ideas? Of course, there'll always be people who will disagree, so some people may think that the developer's ideas are way better than player ideas.

But for the most part, for almost every and any game, there will be a bunch of people who come up with better ideas than any Dev for that game ever will. Of course, those ideas are never used because of copyright issues, and since the Devs didn't come up with it, they're the company is afraid that they'll be sued if they use it.

I mean I've seen several modders who've got tons and tons of ideas as it is. Why can't BioWare come up with that kind of DLC? Fair enough it's only been slightly over a month since the release, but if all the DLC is going to be like Warden's Keep, that's really disappointing.

[CJohnJones]

One word: toolset.

[Taleroth]

Ideas are easy. Implementation is hard. Developers have great ideas all the time, but these get tied down by reality.

[Sam -stone- serious]

Does each developer work alone? Does he fund the project alone? Is he making it in his own leisure time? A big fat NO is the answer to the above questions which is what is the answer you are looking for.

[Astorax]

um.

Okay, let me splain.

No, would take too long, let me sum up.

MAYBE 100 developers on the biggest games out there.

MILLIONS of players.

It's called the shotgun principle. If you throw out an arbitrarily large number of ideas (players) some of them will be good ones.

You have to consider all of the unbelievably terrible ideas that are also thrown out by players into that statement.

If say, .1% of player ideas are good (better than devs) ideas, that means 99.9% of them are worse...

Modifié par Astorax, 09 décembre 2009 - 06:34 .

[Faerell Gustani]

Different brains, different ideas. I mean, these modders didn't dream up for dragon age and then code it.

[Brako Shepard]

Plus you also have to remember that we get a lot more time to have some creative ideas that a developer does. The moment they have an idea, there publisher is then rushing them until it hits the game shops.



But mostly its because we are way more creative than what can be accomplished on a PC/Console game.

[ChickenDownUnder]

Taleroth wrote...

Ideas are easy. Implementation is hard. Developers have great ideas all the time, but these get tied down by reality.

This.

[Zealuu]

Reality, particularly those of nagging publishers and the passage of time tend to get in your way.

[Giltspur]

Well, players have no budget and no deadline.

And then there's this. Have you been thinking and thought you had this really great idea? And then you write it down and it's crap? It's because you're mind glosses over all the holes in your idea, and writing reveals to you that you're not as brilliant (at least not yet) as you thought.

I've never been a game designer, but I would guess they run into a similar problem.

EDIT: I can see I've sort of missed your point which seems more to be "Why are player mods better than official DLC's. than it is 'why are players smarter than devs'.

Modifié par Giltspur, 09 décembre 2009 - 06:46 .

[SheffSteel]

something involving monkeys and typewriters

[JabberJaww]

I am more impressed by the brains who come up with a game like this from the ground up.



The modders already have the template in front of them... the actual game.



Its easier to sit here and see a finished product and come up with ideas to change things... the hard part is sitting in a room with a blank sheet of paper and actually come up with the idea.

[J.O.G]

If you ever had a job where you had to justify all expenses, time exposure and decisions to people in suits that have not the slightest idea how that which you do actually works, but still use huge flip charts to prove their point that you should do it differently, then you know your answer.

[Bonanza16]

I agree and I disagree with you. Some developers have original and entertaining ideas and so do gamers as you have indeed pointed out. The reverse is also true. While we're at it, I'd like to congratulate the developers of Dragon Age: Origins for their game (Best game I've played so far by the way) which means that they have successfully come up with great ideas.



Perhaps some of the exceptionally cool gameplay ideas do not translate well from paper to practice meaning that they are either not feasible or they do not appeal to everyone or become boring after some time.



Finally, I'd also like to add that even though I really like mods I also feel that SOMETIMES they lack the polish which would otherwise come from skillful BioWare programmers.

[miltos33]

Because modders are free to create. Developers have to think about publishers, sales, ratings, etc.

[Rishavs]

why? because a 100 developer team reaches out to a million players. of course you have greater chance of getting good ideas from 1 million people than 100 people.



more so, most good player ideas are hypothetical ideas. dev ideas are put in practice, run through testers, prefined upon till the original idea is hammered down into something less original and more practical. nothing about lack of creativity. thats just how development works.

[Goldfinger168]

Taleroth wrote...

Ideas are easy. Implementation is hard. Developers have great ideas all the time, but these get tied down by reality.

That's pretty much it.

Having ideas and actually producing something within boundaries (time, money...) are two different things.

[KEMKA]

which DA mods have you seen that are so good? genuinely wondering!

[T1l]

Sometimes developers can't see the forest for the trees.



I don't mean that in a condescending or critical sense, either; I just think when any individual is engrossed in a project they're passionate about they can be unintentionally blind to the bigger picture. It's human. The developers, talented and brilliant as they are, are human just like everyone else. Besides; it's not just the developers that have great ideas. Thank God Bioware had the foresight and kindness to release the toolset – it helps everyone. The developers learn from the community and the community learns from the developers; in the end, we all end up with a better end product.

[back pain]

Astorax wrote...

um.

Okay, let me splain.

No, would take too long, let me sum up.

MAYBE 100 developers on the biggest games out there.

MILLIONS of players.

It's called the shotgun principle. If you throw out an arbitrarily large number of ideas (players) some of them will be good ones.

You have to consider all of the unbelievably terrible ideas that are also thrown out by players into that statement.

If say, .1% of player ideas are good (better than devs) ideas, that means 99.9% of them are worse...

Just what I was going to say.

[vicariouscheese]

money and deadlines my friend

[VanDraegon]

-k-a-t-e- wrote...

which DA mods have you seen that are so good? genuinely wondering!

Probably all the ones with boobies!

[Sloth Of Doom]

Also don't forget that developers have to make a game that functions on literally millions of hardware setups and that all parts of the game have t work together.



Modders just crank out ne thing that might work for a small percentage of the population and break other parts of the game AND ruin the balance, and they have no responsibility for anything.



This thread idea wasn't terribly well thought out

[kevinwastaken]

There are only a couple with boobies right now. The boobie scene hasn't yet matured for DAO. Give it time though and there will be a boobies explosion.

[nefem]

then u come up with a good game, and we all will gather up and have better ideas to improve it.