428 réponses à ce sujet

[nitefyre410]

Generic Screen Name wrote...

Razhathael wrote...

they pay attention to the extra unnecessary shots fired when she kills one of their favorite characters

The shots WERE necessary. Do you not remember fighting Krogan in the first game?

 

Yeah... or as  thane said  in the Shadow Broker  files..

Alterante Methods for killing Krogan... use a Bomb.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 17 mai 2012 - 04:41 .

[Generic Screen Name]

hoodaticus wrote...

If you're thinking what I'm thinking, then be careful.  You can still get pregnant that way - even after you're dead - even if you're not a woman.

I couldn't possibly know what you're referring to.

nitefyre410 wrote...

Yeah... or as  thane said  in the Shadow Broker  files..

Alterante Methods for killing Krogan... use a Bomb.

Well, we only had one bomb, and that was being saved for Kaidan, soooooo...

[Ravereth]

BP93 wrote...

D24O wrote...

She was pretty quick to turn her gun on Udina for my Shepard. Just saying.

Because you actually took the time to visit her and when you did, you weren't a complete dick. Funny how that works.

You don't have to go full paragon either. 50/50 still works.

The ONLY option to kill Ashley on my playthrough was by using renegade interrupt... I could even choose this dialogue option which didn't require paragon/renegade points and she still trusted me...

[Ravereth]

hoodaticus wrote...

D24O wrote...

She was pretty quick to turn her gun on Udina for my Shepard. Just saying.

Hmm.  Maybe my memory is tainted by how profusely she apologized for it later.

Honestly, her apologies are what made me start to question the depth of her devotion to me for the first time.

My next playthrough - after a dozen playthroughs staying loyal to her and never dating anyone else in the history of the series - I had decided she wasn't good enough for me.  I determined to be a player and bang as many different characters as possible.

That's when I discovered Liara, in the Lair of the Shadow Broker, was the one who loved me most in the entire world.  She seriously puts Ash's love to shame in every way.

I wish it weren't true, because Ash is otherwise perfect for Shepard.  She can give him human children and - for my Shepard - she at least believes in God.

Hello!  Haven't you people looked out a window?

For me Liara's love is too sweet and perfect... I prefer more realistic relationships

[huntrrz]

The writing for Ashley was horrible. In order to remain suspicious of Shepard in ME3 she has to overlook that he has been in Alliance custody for months (he SURRENDERED to Alliance authority) and that they have releaved him of duty (NOT CHARGED HIM WITH TREASON). Even that should be enough for her to trust him - she doesn't have to know all of the details, but she has to realize that he's been grilled (and medically scanned) to within an inch of his life by the Alliance. If he had bugs or control devices planted on him, they'd have found something.

She also personally witnesses a superior officer reinstate Shepard and give him command of the Normandy and mission orders. These are later confirmed by official communique by the commander of the Alliance fleet.

And yet, she persists in thinking that Shepard *might* be being controlled by Cerberus, when all available EVIDENCE points to the contrary.


My only regret is that on a second playthrough I took the option of denying permission for Ashley to join the Normandy crew, and instead of Shepard saying, "I can't have you aboard my ship. I can't trust someone who won't trust me", he says, "You don't belong on the Normandy. You should be giving orders, not following them." (WTF?)

[Made Nightwing]

huntrrz wrote...

The writing for Ashley was horrible. In order to remain suspicious of Shepard in ME3 she has to overlook that he has been in Alliance custody for months (he SURRENDERED to Alliance authority) and that they have releaved him of duty (NOT CHARGED HIM WITH TREASON). Even that should be enough for her to trust him - she doesn't have to know all of the details, but she has to realize that he's been grilled (and medically scanned) to within an inch of his life by the Alliance. If he had bugs or control devices planted on him, they'd have found something.

She also personally witnesses a superior officer reinstate Shepard and give him command of the Normandy and mission orders. These are later confirmed by official communique by the commander of the Alliance fleet.

And yet, she persists in thinking that Shepard *might* be being controlled by Cerberus, when all available EVIDENCE points to the contrary.


My only regret is that on a second playthrough I took the option of denying permission for Ashley to join the Normandy crew, and instead of Shepard saying, "I can't have you aboard my ship. I can't trust someone who won't trust me", he says, "You don't belong on the Normandy. You should be giving orders, not following them." (WTF?)

I'm sure the Council thought that all the evidence pointed to Saren still following orders. I'm sure the Alliance thought they were still controlling Cerberus. I'm sure the Protheans thought that they had iron hard control of their species. I'm sure the Shadow Broker was sure that he was still controlling Feron. I'm sure the Illusive Man thought he was still in control of his actions right up until the end.

And I'm sure Shepard was just kidding when he said 'I'm not even sure if I'm me any more.'

Case dismissed.

[JBPBRC]

huntrrz wrote...

The writing for Ashley was horrible. In order to remain suspicious of Shepard in ME3 she has to overlook that he has been in Alliance custody for months (he SURRENDERED to Alliance authority) and that they have releaved him of duty (NOT CHARGED HIM WITH TREASON). Even that should be enough for her to trust him - she doesn't have to know all of the details, but she has to realize that he's been grilled (and medically scanned) to within an inch of his life by the Alliance. If he had bugs or control devices planted on him, they'd have found something.

Shepard kills 300,000+ Batarians by throwing a giant rock at an "indestructible" Mass Relay.

Alliance slaps him on the wrist.

Ashley: NUUUU YOU'RE WITH CERBERUS, YOU SAVE DUMB ALIEN COUNCIL YOU STOP EVIL COLLECTORS, BUT YOU ARE CERBERUS I KNOW YOU ARE DON'T LIE TO ME, YOU NO TRUSTWORTHEH, ARGH RARGH GWARGHHHH!

Response only slightly exaggereated.

[essarr71]

So many silly conclusions here.

I liked the fact that a squadmate showed some integrity and didnt just start fawning over Shep. The VS, for all their misunderstanding of the situation, are perfectly right from their perspective. It's no different than Shep chewing out the Quarrian Aldmiralty Board or telling TIM he's insane.

It's a hypocritical stance. I mean, really, you don't respect them and they keep their distance. Sounds completely unrealistic.

[frylock23]

Ravereth wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

D24O wrote...

She was pretty quick to turn her gun on Udina for my Shepard. Just saying.

Hmm.  Maybe my memory is tainted by how profusely she apologized for it later.

Honestly, her apologies are what made me start to question the depth of her devotion to me for the first time.

My next playthrough - after a dozen playthroughs staying loyal to her and never dating anyone else in the history of the series - I had decided she wasn't good enough for me.  I determined to be a player and bang as many different characters as possible.

That's when I discovered Liara, in the Lair of the Shadow Broker, was the one who loved me most in the entire world.  She seriously puts Ash's love to shame in every way.

I wish it weren't true, because Ash is otherwise perfect for Shepard.  She can give him human children and - for my Shepard - she at least believes in God.

Hello!  Haven't you people looked out a window?

For me Liara's love is too sweet and perfect... I prefer more realistic relationships

Yeah, Liara's love is so perfect that she dug up your dead and frozen body and sold it to Cerberus which is what prompted this whole thread in the first place.

NOT. CREEPY. AT. ALL.

At a certain point, you need to just let someone go and accept that they are dead and move on with your 1,000 year life.

Personally, I place the blame for all of my Kaidan troubles at her feet.

[macrocarl]

JSwisha wrote...

Getting sent to Hell would have been a much better ending than riding a magical elevator up to dog sh*t city.

HAHAHAHAHAHA ahhhhh that's actually really funny.

[sw04ca]

hoodaticus wrote...
Shepard is a Spectre and cannot be AWOL.  She could have asked to join, and Spectre Shepard would have gotten her.  That was the point.  There would have been no AWOL.  Tali was not AWOL when she joined.  She's in the exact same boat as Ashley - except Shepard can actually pull strings given that every Alliance mission he did since becoming a Spectre was a favor and not an order.

He has nuclear blackmail on the Alliance - if you're a war hero.

Of course he can be AWOL.  He's still 'Commander' Shepard, which means he hasn't resigned his commission.  Just because he's on detached duty as a Spectre doesn't mean that the Alliance has no hold on him.  He really should have reported when he became not dead anymore.

[Razhathael]

essarr71 wrote...

So many silly conclusions here.

I liked the fact that a squadmate showed some integrity and didnt just start fawning over Shep. The VS, for all their misunderstanding of the situation, are perfectly right from their perspective. It's no different than Shep chewing out the Quarrian Aldmiralty Board or telling TIM he's insane.

It's a hypocritical stance. I mean, really, you don't respect them and they keep their distance. Sounds completely unrealistic.

No it really isn't, comparing completely different scenarios like that simply doesn't work. I assume you mean the whole "being mad at Han Gerrel for shooting at you on the ship" thing. Okay, compare that to "an old friend you saved twice, have tried to  convinve numerous times doesn't trust you and believes Udina over Shepard (who betrayed both Shepard and Ashley before).

Now you're saying Ashley's ranting is as reasonable as mistrusting TIM? No, it's not. TIM never was Shepard's friend or superior, TIM never saved the galaxy (don't go there, it was Shepard), nor did he ever give any reason to trust him. But mistrusting Shepard, well it was reasonable at ME2, but ME3 during all the invasion, all the proof, all they've been through, it's only short-sighted not to trust Shepard over Udina. If in that situation Shepard was with Cerberus, why not just shoot Ash and the council? 3 vs 1, what is she, stupid? I know these arguments go nowhere when I call her stupid, since then someone will get angry of it and try to prove otherwise, but she WAS stupid in that situation. Whetever or not she overall is, I don't care.

You can call it realistic and tell yourself Ashley is being a strong person for not trusting Shepard even with all the evidence, but I call her doing that short-sighted and foolish.

I should show respect to her for second-guessing everything I do? I was reasonable for her, but no I shouldn't show any respect to someone who doesn't show any respect back. Once again the fact that all Ashley conversations are about trying to convince HER to trust Shepard is bull****, it should also be the other way around. So when we get to the meeting spot, I saw little point in having Ashley around, I convinced her, sure, then met her later and told her to go away, since I don't trust her at all. But like someone said before, Shepard instead encourages her to be a leader for her stupid decisions. Argh.

[ollyollyoxenfree]

I couldn't kill Ashley, and I get why she reacts the way she does but it still irritated me. Remember even Kenneth says he wouldn't invite her to a poker match because she's probably a sore loser. And he's not wrong. In a later playthroughs I tried out pretty much all the romances and Ashley's was the one I disliked the most (barring Jacob, of course). Everybody in the game calls Miranda a b---- but she's way better to Shepard than Ashley. Miranda probably had as much attachment to Cerberus as Ashley has to the Alliance but she still chooses to follow Shepard when he leaves. And considering betraying the Alliance (like Kenneth and Gabby) leads to detention while ditching Cerberus leads to being hunted by assassins, it's an even bigger leap.

I'm surprised people saved Ashley do to her age. Personal preferences aside, Kaidan is a strong biotic, technician and an officer, making him more valuable than a regular soldier.

Modifié par ollyollyoxenfree, 17 mai 2012 - 07:37 .

[tetsutsuru]

Miranda has rich character depth and development. Ashley is a b**tch in ME1, ME2 and ME3. No change.  No development.  She just forgot to tie her hair is all.  Kaidan just became more and more of a whiny, girly-man as the series progressed. I wish there was an option to order him to take a nuke, go to Virmire, and blow himself up so the Ashley vapor cloud wouldn't be so lonely. But since that wasn't an option the game offered, I just turned him into a War Asset.

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 17 mai 2012 - 07:33 .

[frylock23]

tetsutsuru wrote...

Miranda has rich character depth and development. Ashley is a b**tch in ME1, ME2 and ME3. No change.  No development.  She just forgot to tie her hair is all.  Kaidan just became more and more of a whiny, girly-man as the series progressed. I wish there was an option to order him to take a nuke, go to Virmire, and blow himself up so the Ashley vapor cloud wouldn't be so lonely. But since that wasn't an option the game offered, I just turned him into a War Asset.

We must not have the same Miranda in our games. As much as I like her, my Miranda constantly whines about her sister, her father and the horrible burden of being genetically perfect ...

[Jadebaby]

someone left her hanging at the hospital! No love! shame!

[MokiTheMime]

alec1898 wrote...

Well Kaidan is the ultimate wingman and he gives me Carth KOTOR nostalgia.

Word. Same here.

[ShadowSoldier89]

I TOLD YOU I'D SHOOT. WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME? YOU NEVER BELIEVE ME!

[essarr71]

Razhathael wrote...

No it really isn't, comparing completely different scenarios like that simply doesn't work. I assume you mean the whole "being mad at Han Gerrel for shooting at you on the ship" thing. Okay, compare that to "an old friend you saved twice, have tried to  convinve numerous times doesn't trust you and believes Udina over Shepard (who betrayed both Shepard and Ashley before).

That'd entirely dependant on how you've treated them.  Did you take the time to repair the broken bridge?  Did you try to make them understand or just throw out dismissive insults?

Let's try this instead.  Switch the roles.
The last thing you remember of this outstanding soldier is their ass floating in space among the debris of the Normandy.  Over the next two years you spend your time working closely with Anderson and Udina on Alliance business, going about saving the galaxy and all that happy stuff.  You hear a rumor about Cerberus, who you're very against, stealing colonists.  While investigating, you discover, why, it's Ashley Williams.. alive for who knows how long, working with Cerberus.  She hasn't called or wrote, she didn't go back to the Alliance and claims she's been dead.  Right.

Over the next few weeks you hear about all the good Ashley is doing in a Cerberus uniform... like destroying a Batarian Relay and killing 300k civilians.  Or flying around in a replica of your old ship, now filled with Cerberus crew members.  Was it to stop the Reapers or has Cerberus got Ashley wrapped so much around their finger she'll believe anything?

She turns herself in.. a curious move.  She denies none of it and insists it was all for the good of the council races, and while others seem content to accept the story - even if Ashley is kept at arms length - you're not entirely convinced.  You don't attack them or scream, you simply ask what's up?  You'd like to hear it from her, since you've had a history.  She could be nice and encourage the mend, but no.. Ashley tells you that YOU should know better about why she'd do what she did.  You help her, despite this.. maybe you are the one being unreasonable, after all - and you two ARE fighting Cerberus together.  Then, out of no where, a Cerberus robot nearly kills you.  You wake up on the Citadel, broken and alone.  You reach out to Ashley, but she doesn't come... or if she does, she's aloof or tight-lipped.  She has no desire to put you at ease, insists you're the one being unreasonable.  Over the next few weeks, you mend, and Udina, recognizing your worth, wants to promote you to Spectre.

Now you find yourself in the middle of a Cerberus invasion.  The entire council - the very core of leadership during the most dire of wars - is in your care.  You're being chased across the Presidium, there is danger everywhere.  C-Sec is in shambles and double agents could be anywhere.  You're chased up an elevator shaft.. assassins right on your tail and you're alone and trapped.  Out from your only exit, in the middle of this Cerberus mess, Ashley appears, holding a gun to Udina.  She tells you to trust her.  To move aside.

If you're going to argue that you step away for her, I'd say you're insane.  So you stand your ground.  Ashley shoots you.  Kills Udina. 

... And you wonder why Ashley tells you to go to hell in this scenario. 

Again: perspective.

Modifié par essarr71, 17 mai 2012 - 08:25 .

[Brp650]

Hmmm chickie caps my bro on virmire cause hes having a bad day, wears blinders when it comes to cerberus and Shep, and still continues her obsession in ME3? Yeah, i can see some bridge mending in the future........high velocity lead therapy type of mending

[Iakus]

huntrrz wrote...

The writing for Ashley was horrible. In order to remain suspicious of Shepard in ME3 she has to overlook that he has been in Alliance custody for months (he SURRENDERED to Alliance authority) and that they have releaved him of duty (NOT CHARGED HIM WITH TREASON). Even that should be enough for her to trust him - she doesn't have to know all of the details, but she has to realize that he's been grilled (and medically scanned) to within an inch of his life by the Alliance. If he had bugs or control devices planted on him, they'd have found something.

Cerberus brought a 2 year dead corpse back to life with the power of SCIENCE!  Who knows what else they might be capable of?

She also personally witnesses a superior officer reinstate Shepard and give him command of the Normandy and mission orders. These are later confirmed by official communique by the commander of the Alliance fleet.

And she doesn't disobey any orders given.  She only voices unease that Shepard may not be entirely...Shepard.

And yet, she persists in thinking that Shepard *might* be being controlled by Cerberus, when all available EVIDENCE points to the contrary.

And then the huskified trooper shows up which perfectly illustrated Ash's fear of what Cerberus may have done to Shepard, only better concealed

By any chance have you seen or read The Manchurian Candidate?

My only regret is that on a second playthrough I took the option of denying permission for Ashley to join the Normandy crew, and instead of Shepard saying, "I can't have you aboard my ship. I can't trust someone who won't trust me", he says, "You don't belong on the Normandy. You should be giving orders, not following them." (WTF?)

Yeah, I found the regaining of trust to be one of the more powerful aspects of the game as Shepard proves to her and to himself that he's still human.  Ash turning her gun on Udina is one of my favorite moments of the game, and I even declined the renegade interrupt to shoot him.  SHe gets that honor 

[tetsutsuru]

tetsutsuru wrote...

Miranda has rich character depth and development. Ashley is a b**tch in ME1, ME2 and ME3. No change. No development. She just forgot to tie her hair is all. Kaidan just became more and more of a whiny, girly-man as the series progressed. I wish there was an option to order him to take a nuke, go to Virmire, and blow himself up so the Ashley vapor cloud wouldn't be so lonely. But since that wasn't an option the game offered, I just turned him into a War Asset.

frylock23 wrote...

We must not have the same Miranda in our games. As much as I like her, my Miranda constantly whines about her sister, her father and the horrible burden of being genetically perfect ...

Considering savegame import "decision" variables and all that, it's possible.

Did you play a Paragon male Shepard with no RI in ME1, and pursue Miranda as ME2 RI?  You'll see a lot of the aforementioned character richness and depth.

You'll also have to consider that she is script-limited, confined within the game(s), of course.  Unlike in real life where new things happen to each of us nearly daily.  And also, don't tell me you don't have any issue (even at least ONE), possibly a concurrent issue, which you routinely discuss with another (close friend, confidante, significant other, or what not)?

She's not whining about her sister.  It's a concurrent issue that's worrying her sick.  Think about it, people are looking for Oriana, to TRY TO TAKE HER AND/OR KILL HER.  And she doesn't have any friends.  If Shepard isn't her RI, or if Shepard is female, Shepard is the closest thing to someone she could trust.

Regarding the other example about the "burden of being generically perfect", you can look up the definition of "perfect" or "perfection".  Then take one small step further in the direction of 'human nature" and "expectations" from such.  That's a lot of pressure.  Majority of humans in real life will never experience that kind of pressure, as what percentage of humans are, say, 180+ IQ geniuses?  Oh, here's one:  Olympic and professional athletes.  Expectations on performance, conditioning, the gold medal, etc..

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 17 mai 2012 - 09:27 .

[Vespervin]

frylock23 wrote...

tetsutsuru wrote...

Miranda has rich character depth and development. Ashley is a b**tch in ME1, ME2 and ME3. No change.  No development.  She just forgot to tie her hair is all.  Kaidan just became more and more of a whiny, girly-man as the series progressed. I wish there was an option to order him to take a nuke, go to Virmire, and blow himself up so the Ashley vapor cloud wouldn't be so lonely. But since that wasn't an option the game offered, I just turned him into a War Asset.

We must not have the same Miranda in our games. As much as I like her, my Miranda constantly whines about her sister, her father and the horrible burden of being genetically perfect ...

That's why Miranda never makes it back from the Collector Base. 

[ticklefist]

That was great. I'd have liked the option to respond with "Oh yeah? Well I ****ed you in the ass."