428 réponses à ce sujet

[frylock23]

tetsutsuru wrote...

tetsutsuru wrote...

Miranda has rich character depth and development. Ashley is a b**tch in ME1, ME2 and ME3. No change. No development. She just forgot to tie her hair is all. Kaidan just became more and more of a whiny, girly-man as the series progressed. I wish there was an option to order him to take a nuke, go to Virmire, and blow himself up so the Ashley vapor cloud wouldn't be so lonely. But since that wasn't an option the game offered, I just turned him into a War Asset.

frylock23 wrote...

We must not have the same Miranda in our games. As much as I like her, my Miranda constantly whines about her sister, her father and the horrible burden of being genetically perfect ...

Considering savegame import "decision" variables and all that, it's possible.

Did you play a Paragon male Shepard with no RI in ME1, and pursue Miranda as ME2 RI?  You'll see a lot of the aforementioned character richness and depth.

You'll also have to consider that she is script-limited, confined within the game(s), of course.  Unlike in real life where new things happen to each of us nearly daily.  And also, don't tell me you don't have any issue (even at least ONE), possibly a concurrent issue, which you routinely discuss with another (close friend, confidante, significant other, or what not)?

She's not whining about her sister.  It's a concurrent issue that's worrying her sick.  Think about it, people are looking for Oriana, to TRY TO TAKE HER AND/OR KILL HER.  And she doesn't have any friends.  If Shepard isn't her RI, or if Shepard is female, Shepard is the closest thing to someone she could trust.

Regarding the other example about the "burden of being generically perfect", you can look up the definition of "perfect" or "perfection".  Then take one small step further in the direction of 'human nature" and "expectations" from such.  That's a lot of pressure.  Majority of humans in real life will never experience that kind of pressure, as what percentage of humans are, say, 180+ IQ geniuses?  Oh, here's one:  Olympic and professional athletes.  Expectations on performance, conditioning, the gold medal, etc..

My point though is that what seem to be valid concerns for her character to have in your opinion can be interpreted as whining by another player. As far as I'm concerned, this is the case with Kaidan. His L2 implants and migrains are valid concerns for him as are the details of his past, but many people interpret them as him simply being whiny and they nuke him for mentioning them if you ask about them.

I also feel the VS's concerns about your past with Cerberus are also justified.

FYI, I also think that Miranda's concerns about her sister and her father are justified. It's just her genetics that I get tired of hearing about. That wouldn't be nearly as bad if she wouldn't constantly call herself "perfect" all the time when she demonstrably isn't.

[tetsutsuru]

tetsutsuru wrote...

Miranda has rich character depth and development. Ashley is a b**tch in ME1, ME2 and ME3. No change. No development. She just forgot to tie her hair is all. Kaidan just became more and more of a whiny, girly-man as the series progressed. I wish there was an option to order him to take a nuke, go to Virmire, and blow himself up so the Ashley vapor cloud wouldn't be so lonely. But since that wasn't an option the game offered, I just turned him into a War Asset.

frylock23 wrote...

We must not have the same Miranda in our games. As much as I like her, my Miranda constantly whines about her sister, her father and the horrible burden of being genetically perfect ...

tetsutsuru wrote...

Considering savegame import "decision" variables and all that, it's possible.

Did you play a Paragon male Shepard with no RI in ME1, and pursue Miranda as ME2 RI?  You'll see a lot of the aforementioned character richness and depth.

You'll also have to consider that she is script-limited, confined within the game(s), of course.  Unlike in real life where new things happen to each of us nearly daily.  And also, don't tell me you don't have any issue (even at least ONE), possibly a concurrent issue, which you routinely discuss with another (close friend, confidante, significant other, or what not)?

She's not whining about her sister.  It's a concurrent issue that's worrying her sick.  Think about it, people are looking for Oriana, to TRY TO TAKE HER AND/OR KILL HER.  And she doesn't have any friends.  If Shepard isn't her RI, or if Shepard is female, Shepard is the closest thing to someone she could trust.

Regarding the other example about the "burden of being generically perfect", you can look up the definition of "perfect" or "perfection".  Then take one small step further in the direction of 'human nature" and "expectations" from such.  That's a lot of pressure.  Majority of humans in real life will never experience that kind of pressure, as what percentage of humans are, say, 180+ IQ geniuses?  Oh, here's one:  Olympic and professional athletes.  Expectations on performance, conditioning, the gold medal, etc..

frylock23 wrote...

My point though is that what seem to be valid concerns for her character to have in your opinion can be interpreted as whining by another player. As far as I'm concerned, this is the case with Kaidan. His L2 implants and migrains are valid concerns for him as are the details of his past, but many people interpret them as him simply being whiny and they nuke him for mentioning them if you ask about them.

I also feel the VS's concerns about your past with Cerberus are also justified.

FYI, I also think that Miranda's concerns about her sister and her father are justified. It's just her genetics that I get tired of hearing about. That wouldn't be nearly as bad if she wouldn't constantly call herself "perfect" all the time when she demonstrably isn't.

I'm sorry, "VS"?

[Made Nightwing]

ollyollyoxenfree wrote...

I couldn't kill Ashley, and I get why she reacts the way she does but it still irritated me. Remember even Kenneth says he wouldn't invite her to a poker match because she's probably a sore loser. And he's not wrong. In a later playthroughs I tried out pretty much all the romances and Ashley's was the one I disliked the most (barring Jacob, of course). Everybody in the game calls Miranda a b---- but she's way better to Shepard than Ashley. Miranda probably had as much attachment to Cerberus as Ashley has to the Alliance but she still chooses to follow Shepard when he leaves. And considering betraying the Alliance (like Kenneth and Gabby) leads to detention while ditching Cerberus leads to being hunted by assassins, it's an even bigger leap.

I'm surprised people saved Ashley do to her age. Personal preferences aside, Kaidan is a strong biotic, technician and an officer, making him more valuable than a regular soldier.

There's a little bit of a difference between resigining from a bat**** insane, comic book evil organisation bent on galactic domination and storming off in a huff from the genuine good guys who are trying to get the job done.

And before you go on the usual rant that the Alliance wasn't doing anything, they were sending units like Vega's out to gather intel and protect the colonies. They were clearly building up for a strike on the Collectors.

[Made Nightwing]

Razhathael wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

So many silly conclusions here.

I liked the fact that a squadmate showed some integrity and didnt just start fawning over Shep. The VS, for all their misunderstanding of the situation, are perfectly right from their perspective. It's no different than Shep chewing out the Quarrian Aldmiralty Board or telling TIM he's insane.

It's a hypocritical stance. I mean, really, you don't respect them and they keep their distance. Sounds completely unrealistic.

No it really isn't, comparing completely different scenarios like that simply doesn't work. I assume you mean the whole "being mad at Han Gerrel for shooting at you on the ship" thing. Okay, compare that to "an old friend you saved twice, have tried to  convinve numerous times doesn't trust you and believes Udina over Shepard (who betrayed both Shepard and Ashley before).

Now you're saying Ashley's ranting is as reasonable as mistrusting TIM? No, it's not. TIM never was Shepard's friend or superior, TIM never saved the galaxy (don't go there, it was Shepard), nor did he ever give any reason to trust him. But mistrusting Shepard, well it was reasonable at ME2, but ME3 during all the invasion, all the proof, all they've been through, it's only short-sighted not to trust Shepard over Udina. If in that situation Shepard was with Cerberus, why not just shoot Ash and the council? 3 vs 1, what is she, stupid? I know these arguments go nowhere when I call her stupid, since then someone will get angry of it and try to prove otherwise, but she WAS stupid in that situation. Whetever or not she overall is, I don't care.

You can call it realistic and tell yourself Ashley is being a strong person for not trusting Shepard even with all the evidence, but I call her doing that short-sighted and foolish.

I should show respect to her for second-guessing everything I do? I was reasonable for her, but no I shouldn't show any respect to someone who doesn't show any respect back. Once again the fact that all Ashley conversations are about trying to convince HER to trust Shepard is bull****, it should also be the other way around. So when we get to the meeting spot, I saw little point in having Ashley around, I convinced her, sure, then met her later and told her to go away, since I don't trust her at all. But like someone said before, Shepard instead encourages her to be a leader for her stupid decisions. Argh.

That's strange. I could have sworn that my old friend put her gun down and turned on Udina after the first words that came out of my mouth. See, to you, Ashley wasn't an old friend. If you didn't talk to her, didn't reconnect, then you were just another potential Cerberus agent. Udina never betrayed anybody. He did what he thought was right under the circumstances, trying to prevent a diplomatic incident. He was a loyal servant to humanity, somebody Ash thought she could trust. More importantly, he never had any links to Cerberus before ME3.

Not so stupid. In game, all the stupidly evil guys generally announce their dastardly intentions before they shoot. She was just using Shepard's own idiotic logic.

Once more, we come to the point that Tali and Garrus were idiots for trusting Shepard. They were the short-sighted and foolish ones who couldn't even bother to ask themselves the deeper questiosn about what was going on. But since you're way too wrapped up in your player avatar, it flatters your ego to think that Shepard is above suspicion.

She doesn't second guess anything. She questions your motives for working with Cerberus (Horizon). She questions whether you did indeed cut all ties (there are Cerberus infiltrators within Alliance command, so don't give me that bull**** about Shepard being in lockdown). And she questions the methods used to bring you back (Reaper based nanites were used to resurrect Shepard, so her questions are surprisingly accurate). The rest of the conversations are about family, the war, the mission, etc. So no, to me it doesn't sound like she's being stupid. It sounds like you're butthurt. Because quite frankly, the stand off doesn't even count, it's so easily avoided.

[KnifeForkAndSpoon]

tetsutsuru wrote...

I'm sorry, "VS"?

Virmire survivor

[Hatchetman77]

JSwisha wrote...

Getting sent to Hell would have been a much better ending than riding a magical elevator up to dog sh*t city.

This needs to be repeated. Just 'cus.

[ShdwPlayer]

I get what the OP is saying. Even though it's ridiculously easy to save her, the fact that her character can basically wish that the Reapers won is one big ass flaw. Someone just killed you, you're pissed, but you want the whole galaxy to die - yeah that's not classy at all

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Ashley doesn't know the details of Project Lazarus. All she knows is that Cerberus brought you back, and took down the Collectors. Shepard also saved Ashley's ass on Horizon. If Shepard hadn't been there Ashley would have been reaper goop. Does she think of that? No.

Then she gets all snippy about that on Horizon. Then she gets all snippy and mistrusting about that on the Normandy. I used all renegade on Ashley on the Normandy, on Mars -- "you either trust me or you don't. I don't care. You will follow my orders. Are we clear?" I visit her once in the hospital. I did not buy Ashley a gift. Thane died on the SM. I renegaded Ashley again at the confrontation with the ambassadors. No interrupts.

Ashley lowered her weapon. Shepard shot Udina. Ashley lived. I told Ashley to take the job with Hackett.

Ashley doesn't trust you if you come across weak, and to her weak = paragon.

Besides, I wouldn't have put Garrus in the position of doing that for Shepard. Shepard would have shot Ashley herself if it came down to that.

[Deltakarma]

I only saved Ashely to help start my reproduction plans for my new Shepard species, I still never even touched her a*s. Liara is a much better carrier for the Shepard species.

If I was Shepard in that situation, I sure as hell would have shot her religious, poetic, sexy hair and ass again. Killing her because of that would make it personal.

Modifié par Deltakarma, 18 mai 2012 - 01:54 .

[Made Nightwing]

Deltakarma wrote...

I only saved Ashely to help start my reproduction plans for my new Shepard species, I still never even touched her a*s. Liara is a much better carrier for the Shepard species.

If I was Shepard in that situation, I sure as hell would have shot her religious, poetic, sexy hair and ass again. Killing her because of that would make it personal.

You might want to get that psychosis looked at.

[Generic Screen Name]

ShdwPlayer wrote...

I get what the OP is saying. Even though it's ridiculously easy to save her, the fact that her character can basically wish that the Reapers won is one big ass flaw. Someone just killed you, you're pissed, but you want the whole galaxy to die - yeah that's not classy at all

Shepard≠Galaxy

[Spectre_Shepard]

you mustve totally ignored her in the hospital or something

[GLR-0053]

Garrus, my man.

*high five*

I might forgive him for ditching me.

[Volc19]

I saved Kaidan every time. Sure, I'll never get to use Marksman or Inferno Grenade, but honestly I could care less. Ash is nothing but a mean-spirited spoil sport. Kaidan is a bro that you can shag. I don't see why anyone would even have Ash in the first place, given the choice.

[Deltakarma]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Deltakarma wrote...

I only saved Ashely to help start my reproduction plans for my new Shepard species, I still never even touched her a*s. Liara is a much better carrier for the Shepard species.

If I was Shepard in that situation, I sure as hell would have shot her religious, poetic, sexy hair and ass again. Killing her because of that would make it personal.

You might want to get that psychosis looked at.

Have to admit, that made me chuckle.

[acecards14]

it's just me or in every video of the VS being killed the player is a **** and makes garrus dirty his hands...if you want to kill him/her be a man and do it yourself

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

acecards14 wrote...

it's just me or in every video of the VS being killed the player is a **** and makes garrus dirty his hands...if you want to kill him/her be a man and do it yourself

You want to know the ironic thing I've noticed? 8 out of 10 videos that I've seen have femShep doing the deed either here or on Wrex on Virmire, or if it's "let the geth die" it's almost always femShep doing the renegade interrupts while maleShep let's Tali take full responsibility for killing Legion. Why is that?

[DPSSOC]

ollyollyoxenfree wrote...
I'm surprised people saved Ashley do to her age. Personal preferences aside, Kaidan is a strong biotic, technician and an officer, making him more valuable than a regular soldier.

I saved Ash as part of a numbers game.  Kaidan was with the bomb Ash was with the Salarians, when time came to make the call I chose to save the most people, since I trusted Kaidan to ensure the bomb would go off.  I was also certain in my first playthrough that I could save them both, I was wrong.

Made Nightwing wrote...
And before you go on the usual rant that the Alliance wasn't doing anything, they were sending units like Vega's out to gather intel and protect the colonies. They were clearly building up for a strike on the Collectors.

Off topic I know but am I the only one who preferred when the Alliance wasn't doing anything?  I mean it's one thing if they ignored something that wasn't their problem, it's another if they tried to do something and clearly really sucked at it.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 18 mai 2012 - 02:59 .

[Zardoc]

Generic Screen Name wrote...

ShdwPlayer wrote...

I get what the OP is saying. Even though it's ridiculously easy to save her, the fact that her character can basically wish that the Reapers won is one big ass flaw. Someone just killed you, you're pissed, but you want the whole galaxy to die - yeah that's not classy at all

Shepard≠Galaxy

Seeing how Shepard is the only really competent person in the galaxy, him dying would generally result in a victory for the Reapers.

[Zardoc]

Made Nightwing wrote...

ollyollyoxenfree wrote...

I couldn't kill Ashley, and I get why she reacts the way she does but it still irritated me. Remember even Kenneth says he wouldn't invite her to a poker match because she's probably a sore loser. And he's not wrong. In a later playthroughs I tried out pretty much all the romances and Ashley's was the one I disliked the most (barring Jacob, of course). Everybody in the game calls Miranda a b---- but she's way better to Shepard than Ashley. Miranda probably had as much attachment to Cerberus as Ashley has to the Alliance but she still chooses to follow Shepard when he leaves. And considering betraying the Alliance (like Kenneth and Gabby) leads to detention while ditching Cerberus leads to being hunted by assassins, it's an even bigger leap.

I'm surprised people saved Ashley do to her age. Personal preferences aside, Kaidan is a strong biotic, technician and an officer, making him more valuable than a regular soldier.

There's a little bit of a difference between resigining from a bat**** insane, comic book evil organisation bent on galactic domination and storming off in a huff from the genuine good guys who are trying to get the job done.

And before you go on the usual rant that the Alliance wasn't doing anything, they were sending units like Vega's out to gather intel and protect the colonies. They were clearly building up for a strike on the Collectors.

Yeah, we only get told the Council, including the Alliance, doesn't do anything meaningful to help the colonists. The best they could come up with were defensive cannons on one of the colonies. Those special units were more than likely only sent out after Shepard already dealt with Horizon. 

Once more, we come to the point that Tali and Garrus were idiots for trusting Shepard. They were the short-sighted and foolish ones who couldn't even bother to ask themselves the deeper questiosn about what was going on. But since you're way too wrapped up in your player avatar, it flatters your ego to think that Shepard is above suspicion.

Garrus never really had any choice regarding him joining you, seeing how he was in a bit of a pickle when you swooped in to save his ass. Tali only somewhat trusts you on Freedom's Progress if you can prove you are yourself, otherwise she remains suspicious. She also joins you at first because she thinks you're trying to sabotage Cerberus from within, pretty reasonable assumption. Not everyone can have such major trust issues as Ashley and, to some extent, Kaidan. I have no problem she has doubts about me, but she doesn't have to be such a b*tch about it.

For the record, I would never kill Ashley or Kaidan, personal differences or no. It's just that the VS has the tendency to be rather annoying for the first half of the game.

Modifié par Zardoc, 18 mai 2012 - 03:17 .

[Made Nightwing]

DPSSOC wrote...

ollyollyoxenfree wrote...
I'm surprised people saved Ashley do to her age. Personal preferences aside, Kaidan is a strong biotic, technician and an officer, making him more valuable than a regular soldier.

I saved Ash as part of a numbers game.  Kaidan was with the bomb Ash was with the Salarians, when time came to make the call I chose to save the most people, since I trusted Kaidan to ensure the bomb would go off.  I was also certain in my first playthrough that I could save them both, I was wrong.

Made Nightwing wrote...
And before you go on the usual rant that the Alliance wasn't doing anything, they were sending units like Vega's out to gather intel and protect the colonies. They were clearly building up for a strike on the Collectors.

Off topic I know but am I the only one who preferred when the Alliance wasn't doing anything?  I mean it's one thing if they ignored something that wasn't their problem, it's another if they tried to do something and clearly really sucked at it.

They only sucked at it because, surprise, Cerberus sold them out to the Collectors.

[Deemz]

Mcfly616 wrote...

alec1898 wrote...
he gives me Carth KOTOR nostalgia.

The exact reason why I sacrifice him and not Ashley, in every playthrough I have lol


I hate Carth

Death to all things Carth! 

[Zardoc]

Made Nightwing wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

ollyollyoxenfree wrote...
I'm surprised people saved Ashley do to her age. Personal preferences aside, Kaidan is a strong biotic, technician and an officer, making him more valuable than a regular soldier.

I saved Ash as part of a numbers game.  Kaidan was with the bomb Ash was with the Salarians, when time came to make the call I chose to save the most people, since I trusted Kaidan to ensure the bomb would go off.  I was also certain in my first playthrough that I could save them both, I was wrong.

Made Nightwing wrote...
And before you go on the usual rant that the Alliance wasn't doing anything, they were sending units like Vega's out to gather intel and protect the colonies. They were clearly building up for a strike on the Collectors.

Off topic I know but am I the only one who preferred when the Alliance wasn't doing anything?  I mean it's one thing if they ignored something that wasn't their problem, it's another if they tried to do something and clearly really sucked at it.

They only sucked at it because, surprise, Cerberus sold them out to the Collectors.

Yeah, you're gonna have to back up that claim.

Modifié par Zardoc, 18 mai 2012 - 03:14 .

[Made Nightwing]

Ask and ye shall receive. Got to 2:10 for the good stuff.

[GuardianAngel470]

Generic Screen Name wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

3-No, she wasn't nice to me in Horizon even though I romanced her....

That's because you were working with terrorists. Some people don't like that.

And some people are too stubborn to look at the two ALIENS working for a PRO-HUMAN TERRORIST GROUP and come to the logical conclusion that maybe they don't know everything.

Blame poor writing all you want, her and shepard's behavior on Horizon is canon.