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[Made Nightwing]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Generic Screen Name wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

3-No, she wasn't nice to me in Horizon even though I romanced her....

That's because you were working with terrorists. Some people don't like that.

And some people are too stubborn to look at the two ALIENS working for a PRO-HUMAN TERRORIST GROUP and come to the logical conclusion that maybe they don't know everything.

Blame poor writing all you want, her and shepard's behavior on Horizon is canon.

Riiiiiight. Because I'm sure that major terrorist organisations don't pay off people to work with them, or corrupt/blackmail/twist people into working for them. Your logic is faulty.

Yes it was. Shepard was a canonical moron.

[GuardianAngel470]

Made Nightwing wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Generic Screen Name wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

3-No, she wasn't nice to me in Horizon even though I romanced her....

That's because you were working with terrorists. Some people don't like that.

And some people are too stubborn to look at the two ALIENS working for a PRO-HUMAN TERRORIST GROUP and come to the logical conclusion that maybe they don't know everything.

Blame poor writing all you want, her and shepard's behavior on Horizon is canon.

Riiiiiight. Because I'm sure that major terrorist organisations don't pay off people to work with them, or corrupt/blackmail/twist people into working for them. Your logic is faulty.

Yes it was. Shepard was a canonical moron.

People she knew and trusted like Garrus? You're really going to tell me that she could believe that Garrus, renegade straightshooter Garrus who she spent hours cooped up with in the cargo bay, had been bought off?

That sir, is faulty logic. Whether hers or yours, it's a highly unreasonable assumption based on what she would have known about Garrus, the cop.

[Shajar]

I did this once, felt kinda cool after i heard what she said to me. But too bad you need to kill Kirrahe and Thane to get this, so i cant do this as canon

[RogueBot]

It's amazing she has the nerve to say something like that after I've treated her like garbage for years and shoot her. I was only trying to toughen her up! 

[Made Nightwing]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Generic Screen Name wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

3-No, she wasn't nice to me in Horizon even though I romanced her....

That's because you were working with terrorists. Some people don't like that.

And some people are too stubborn to look at the two ALIENS working for a PRO-HUMAN TERRORIST GROUP and come to the logical conclusion that maybe they don't know everything.

Blame poor writing all you want, her and shepard's behavior on Horizon is canon.

Riiiiiight. Because I'm sure that major terrorist organisations don't pay off people to work with them, or corrupt/blackmail/twist people into working for them. Your logic is faulty.

Yes it was. Shepard was a canonical moron.

People she knew and trusted like Garrus? You're really going to tell me that she could believe that Garrus, renegade straightshooter Garrus who she spent hours cooped up with in the cargo bay, had been bought off?

That sir, is faulty logic. Whether hers or yours, it's a highly unreasonable assumption based on what she would have known about Garrus, the cop.

You assume that she was 'great friends' with Garrus. There is no proof to this. She could have known absolutely nothing about him other than that he was blindly devoted to Shepard. She also has no clue what Garrus has been doing for the past two years. Murphy's Law would seem to be in place here. Shepard's done some kind of backflip, no reason to think Garrus hasn't done so as well.

[GuardianAngel470]

Made Nightwing wrote...


You assume that she was 'great friends' with Garrus. There is no proof to this. She could have known absolutely nothing about him other than that he was blindly devoted to Shepard. She also has no clue what Garrus has been doing for the past two years. Murphy's Law would seem to be in place here. Shepard's done some kind of backflip, no reason to think Garrus hasn't done so as well.

And she immediately assumes that Shepard AND Garrus have done backflips INSTEAD of doing the reasonable thing and trusting the people she trusted before enough to not insult their loyalty and burn bridges.

I'm sorry Made Nightwing, I'm under the distinct impression you are attempting to justify Ashley/Kaidan's actions on Horizon. If so, we might as well end this discussion now because I will never change my stance on Kaidan/Ash's behavior there and if you ARE then I can probably assume that neither will you.

I try to avoid pointless discussions where I can.

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 18 mai 2012 - 07:23 .

[vixvicco]

I love Ashley. I'm nice to her, so she'd never say that to me.

Modifié par vixvicco, 18 mai 2012 - 10:27 .

[Made Nightwing]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...


You assume that she was 'great friends' with Garrus. There is no proof to this. She could have known absolutely nothing about him other than that he was blindly devoted to Shepard. She also has no clue what Garrus has been doing for the past two years. Murphy's Law would seem to be in place here. Shepard's done some kind of backflip, no reason to think Garrus hasn't done so as well.

And she immediately assumes that Shepard AND Garrus have done backflips INSTEAD of doing the reasonable thing and trusting the people she trusted before enough to not insult their loyalty and burn bridges.

I'm sorry Made Nightwing, I'm under the distinct impression you are attempting to justify Ashley/Kaidan's actions on Horizon. If so, we might as well end this discussion now because I will never change my stance on Kaidan/Ash's behavior there and if you ARE then I can probably assume that neither will you.

I try to avoid pointless discussions where I can.

Right, because they're such pure, noble souls that she can just assume that they're doing the right thing...and go work for terrorists who have murdered her fellow soldiers repeatedly in the past and are known to have infiltrators and sympathisers in every government in galactic space, or don't you remember the Volus diplomat feeding Cerberus information. Sorry, but there's just no logical world in which trusting a terrorist organisation or the individuals inside it makes sense. United States citizens used to think that the IRA were heroes, the CAR-15 was the most widespread weapon among that particular bunch of terrorists. I had a mentor in cadets who was an ex-Royal Marine, he had some choice words to say about naive fools who trust people like that.

That's an idiotic impression to take, since you're obviously just trying to justify the idiocy of Shepard and Garrus (see what I did there?). I also try to avoid pointless discussion, but I cannot abide faulty logic.

[PoisonMushroom]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Yoshiyuki Ly wrote...

Did you visit her in the hospital? Give her any gifts? Were you nice to her most of the time?

If your answers to all three questions are no, then I'm not surprised.

1-Like twice
2-No, Didn't know I could and I really shouldn't
3-No, she wasn't nice to me in Horizon even though I romanced her....

Romanced her in ME1, killed her in ME3. That's pretty tragic... in a cool way.

[Theodoro]

On bad terms or otherwise, there's no justifiable reason for Ashley to actually hope that the Reapers send the only person who she knows can stop them to hell over petty reasons. Especially after just seeing the fact that Udina was indeed working with Cerberus and not the other way around. Keep in mind that in this instance, Shepard has also saved Ashley back on Virmire, saved the Citadel from Sovereign, and stopped the Collectors. If that hasn't earned her trust in him/her, then I don't know what will.

That's especially tragic when she's actually about the only one in Mass Effect who has admitted in believing in heaven and hell.

Modifié par Theodoro, 18 mai 2012 - 12:54 .

[EnvyTB075]

Never really liked her anyway, xeno-racist b****

[Made Nightwing]

Theodoro wrote...

On bad terms or otherwise, there's no justifiable reason for Ashley to actually hope that the Reapers send the only person who she knows can stop them to hell over petty reasons. Especially after just seeing the fact that Udina was indeed working with Cerberus and not the other way around. Keep in mind that in this instance, Shepard has also saved Ashley back on Virmire, saved the Citadel from Sovereign, and stopped the Collectors. If that hasn't earned her trust in him/her, then I don't know what will.

That's especially tragic when she's actually about the only one in Mass Effect who has admitted in believing in heaven and hell.

As far as she knew, Udina was just trying to defend himself. It's kind of hard to be observant when you're dying from a gunshot. Shepard's also gone and signed up with terrorists. I don't know what universe most people are living in when they can't admit that heroes can go bad, and do go bad, frequently.

[Archontor]

People who trusted Shep more:

Garrus, he has as much if not more experience than Shep (especially interacting with aliens and council politics) even when he's higher than a general he never question's their lead and gives up a prominent place in c-sec to join him. Later he risked terrorism charges for a group oppose his very biology for Shep's sake.

Samara, an elite warrior with centuries of experience. Pledges unquestioning loyalty.

Thane, a master assassin with no authority placed on him. Chooses to spend his last days helping Shep.

Wrex. He only questions Shep over clear and present matters to his entire species, and even then he listens.

Grunt, genetically perfect krogan with the memories of their best and brightest. Looks up to Sheppard.

Liara. A highly qualified scientist and leader of one of the most powerful non-government powers around. No questions.

Kaiden. By ME3 he's a Spectre and he outranks you. Nowhere near as challenging.

Javik. The last prothean and a hypothetical emperor of his entire species. Little more than sarcasm out of him.

EDI, a hyper intelligent AI. No questions.

In contrast Ashley sounds a bit like a whining **** dosen't she?


Samara

[ollyollyoxenfree]

 

Made Nightwing wrote...
There's a little bit of a difference between resigining from a bat**** insane, comic book evil organisation bent on galactic domination and storming off in a huff from the genuine good guys who are trying to get the job done.

 

Not to Miranda. She genuinely believed that Cerberus and the Illusive Man were doing the right things. She has more of a ends-justify-the-means philosophy and defends Cerberus time and again throughout the mission. The only time she seems to really disagree with the Illusive Man is over the fate of the Collector Base. But if you don't take her with you in the final battle (or hand over the base) she is never forced to refuse a direct order.

I actually expected her to still be with Cerberus in ME3. Maybe have a face off with her to make her see Cerberus is wrong or be forced to kill her. Or at very least (with hindsight) have her leave when Cerberus started "upgrading" their people. But my impression from her dialogue is that she went on the run from Cerberus when Shepard turned himself in. Which suggests that Miranda reassessed Cerberus and took a big risk with her life (and her sister's seeing as the Illusive Man knew all about who/where Oriana was) based on her trust in Shepard's judgement. 

I could respect the decision not to join up with me in ME2 but at least Kaidan and Engineer Adams are apologetic for not trusting and having Shepard's back. At least not until the final romance scene when she says something about doubting you and losing you and never doing that again. It was just one of a million little things that made me find Ashley irritating throughout the trilogy.

[Confused-Shepard]

You have to coddle them and kiss all the boo-boo's before you get the VS to trust you again
Honestly it's like I am a babysitter with those two. Grow the f*** up. Look at the bigger picture.

[Ryzaki]

Okay so you can play a paragon in ME1 (save the council and whatnot) and still get this scene just by being mean on Mars and ignoring her in ME3? Or do you have to save the base?

[iamweaver]

Ryzaki wrote...

Okay so you can play a paragon in ME1 (save the council and whatnot) and still get this scene just by being mean on Mars and ignoring her in ME3? Or do you have to save the base?

Just ignore her in ME3.

That way, for her you become this person who never tried to talk to you for over 2 years while working for Cerberus (oops!  Sorry, I meant, collaborated with Cerberus), spent a very brief time with you again on Mars, watched you get absolutely mauled and sent to Intensive Care - but never bothered to see you again until they suddenly show up during a Cerberus invasion of the CItadel along with all the other forces who are trying to assasinate the council.  No.  That doesn't look suspicious at all.

[AlexMBrennan]

No. That doesn't look suspicious at all.

It's one thing to be suspicious, but quite another to tell them "I hope the Reapers send you to hell" when it becomes apparent that she had been wrong about Shepard.

but never bothered to see you again

I'd have thought that Ash, being a soldier, would understand that the de-facto leader of the Alliance might have better things to do than checking on an unconscious friends in the middle of a Reaper invasion (such as, for example, her duty).

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 10 juillet 2012 - 05:10 .

[iamweaver]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

No. That doesn't look suspicious at all.

It's one thing to be suspicious, but quite another to tell them "I hope the Reapers send you to hell" when it becomes apparent that she had been wrong about Shepard.

I was just referring to her refusal to back down if you don't allay her naturally suspicious nature.

As I haven't shot her, I don't actually know when she says that.  You mean that she swears at Shepherd while she's bleeding out, after Udina's treachery is revealed?  If so, then the actual dialogue doesn't really make sense, I agree.

[Annihilator27]

I wouldve died if Wrex was the one to shoot Ashley.

[AlexMBrennan]

You mean that she swears at Shepherd while she's bleeding out, after Udina's treachery is revealed?

Yes

[LaughingDragon]

Funny thing is, the reapers DO send Shepard to hell so he got his reunion with Ashley afterall haha.

[iamweaver]

Weird. I can't even begin to figure out why anyone would write that dialogue. Not only is it illogical, it's not even in character.

[MegaSovereign]

Yoshiyuki Ly wrote...

Did you visit her in the hospital? Give her any gifts? Were you nice to her most of the time?

If your answers to all three questions are no, then I'm not surprised.

Why does Shepard have to give her gifts in order for her not to wish him ill will?