428 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

CptData wrote...

Technically, the VS is also guaranteed to be alive, except you're a really, really big stupi jellyfish and get him/her killed in the Coup

Besides that, Liara is no officer of the Alliance. She's an intel source, but nowhere even close to something that you could call XO. Actually, Garrus is the better choice here, especially since he has some military experience. On the other hand, he's simply too much like Shepard.

Which means they're not guaranteed to be alive.

Even if they were my Shep wouldn't want them to be his XO.

Garrus is no more an office of the Alliance than Liara is. Probably why Shep has no XO. No one from the alliance is guaranteed to be on the ship save Vega. And...Vega would not be a good XO. Too hotblooded.

You mean the one where Anderson is sad he never found a family? Touching ... too bad, it's only available for forever-alone-Shepards.

That and the smartass version of the discussion about the Reapers.

...since when? I thought it wasn't available period. You can get it if Shep's single? 

[Xilizhra]

Besides that, Liara is no officer of the Alliance. She's an intel source, but nowhere even close to something that you could call XO. Actually, Garrus is the better choice here, especially since he has some military experience. On the other hand, he's simply too much like Shepard.

Honestly... I don't think Ashley makes a very good officer, or at least I have no proof that she would be. Garrus, on the other hand, I do have proof for, and I consider him more or less my second in command. Liara I consider an equal in a slightly different area of operations.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Ryzaki wrote...

iakus wrote...
And how did you treat her on Mars?  Did you not even have red/blue text?

Oh I had the text my rep wasn't high enough to select it though. (Speed gaming and all that).

Yes, it's about feelings.  Which no is not entirely logical.  Hunches are not logical.  Ash knew Shepard from before. Spend time with her, and she begins to trust that this is in fact Shepard, not a Cerberus puppet (again, huskified trooper)  

Heck a bit chunk of the reason why people hated Horizon was the lack of opportunity to speak with Ash/Kaidan.  That's exactly what these hospital visits are, a chance to reassure Ash that Shepard's still Shepard, not a Cerberus lackey.

Exactly it's about feelings. Which to me and my Shep makes her "vibes" naught.

Which worked for those who wanted to be friends with her. I have no problems with the visits. It's the "Reapers send you to hell." comment that makes me roll my eyes.

Ash: "Hey, admiral, I've been kind of worried that Cerberus may be controling Shepard.  They seem to have Reaper tech and might be able to manipulate Shepard through his cybernetics, They might even have indoctrination tech.  I'm just not sure he's the same person as before, he keeps avoiding me...

Hackett: Shepard's fine.  There's no way a Council Spectre can go rogue.  No wait, there's no way an N7 marine can go bad no wait...Shepard's fine.  Fifth Fleet out.

Ash: Okay, I guess I can table this for now while I recover.  What can go wrong?  Is Cerberus going to start a coup here on the Citadel and send Shepard to assassinate the Council?  Hahaha!

Keeps avoiding me? What is she 10? She should be well aware there's a Reaper war going on and Shep might just be you know...busy trying to unify the galaxy? Naaah. Shep's clearly somewhere getting drunk. (Granted Shep can be doing that. But the point is he's not.)

...and...Hackett wouldn't even remotely say that. Hackett is renegadish enough to know people turn traitor. Especially since Kai Leng is a N7 Marine that...turned traitor to Cerberus.

As for your last bit LOL then clearly being aggressive and antagonizing to the group that has you outnumbered 3 to 1 is the smart solution. It's not like if they were actually with Cerberus they wouldn't just shoot your non-armored ass and keep it moving. Nope.

So true.

[iamweaver]

CptData wrote...

By the way, no answer on the CO/XO team? I said the CO and XO shouldn't be too similar so they have different PoVs on the same situation - and find a better solution. That's why Kaidan and Ashley should have been XOs in ME3. Bet they were planned to take the position as CO of Admiral Andersons mobile strategic HQ, the Normandy.

That would make sense. But I was career enlisted, so I never would have seen the workings at that level of detail.  Working at the Pentagon gave me opportunities to observe things from an interesting perspective, but always from the outside.

[Ryzaki]

iamweaver wrote...
But when they were both in uniform, and Anderson had admiral's insignia, it was up to him to set the tone of their working relationship.

But back to our discussion...

I am unsure why Ashley would really feel the need to pressure Admiral Hackett about Shepherd when she had some assurances from him before her injuries.  It wouldn't be until he stepped off of the elevator that she expected a Cerberus kill tem to step off of that she would suddenly have to deal with the question again.

On that note - it's incidents like this that help make war such a terrible thing.  Soldiers kill comrades and innocents all the time because of the need to make quick decisions with only the evidence immediately before them .

Which...he did in ME1. Doing it again in ME3 was just tripe and silly and turned me completely off.

My Shep's assurances consisted of "No I'm not working with Cerberus now STFU or GTFO." I loved that too. If only I didn't have to do the stupid "No I'm not working with Cerberus." then to me the Hope the Reapers send you to hell dialogue would at least be warranted.

True enough.

I'm still kind of meh there's not an instant renegade kill shot once they let Udina go to the council. Instead you have to wait. Kind of blows. My Shep wasn't anymore fond of Ash than she was of him in that standoff. Sucks that he's forced to be all QQ about her death meanwhile she openly tells him to go to hell.

[CptData]

Xilizhra wrote...

Besides that, Liara is no officer of the Alliance. She's an intel source, but nowhere even close to something that you could call XO. Actually, Garrus is the better choice here, especially since he has some military experience. On the other hand, he's simply too much like Shepard.

Honestly... I don't think Ashley makes a very good officer, or at least I have no proof that she would be. Garrus, on the other hand, I do have proof for, and I consider him more or less my second in command. Liara I consider an equal in a slightly different area of operations.

Well you know all the "shove-in-your-face" jazz. Making Liara OR Garrus to the official XO would feel exactly like that since both already had so much screentime it almost felt like "Garrus-and-Liara Effect." No offense here. I know where you come from.

Since the Normandy is an Alliance ship, I'm quite sure the VS is simply the logical choice. There was a reason why Anderson picked the VS for that ship. Since he's an Admiral he's most likely not the CO of the Normandy but resides as Admiral on board of his flagship. The VS (Ash as Lt. Cmdr. - same rank as Shepard - or Major Alenko) works quite well as CO.

And I doubt the VS is a bad choice as CO. Liara is. Garrus is the only one I trust being able to command a ship and don't get it destroyed while leaving the dock, but Liara? Nope - again, no offense.

[Xilizhra]

Since the Normandy is an Alliance ship, I'm quite sure the VS is simply the logical choice. There was a reason why Anderson picked the VS for that ship. Since he's an Admiral he's most likely not the CO of the Normandy but resides as Admiral on board of his flagship. The VS (Ash as Lt. Cmdr. - same rank as Shepard - or Major Alenko) works quite well as CO.

Ugh. I don't want it to be an Alliance ship; I'm sick of having all-human crews with a few token nonhumans tossed in. It would, to me, have worked far better as a cross-species effort ship sent by the Council. Maybe Renegades wouldn't take it, but... bah.

Also, Liara's area of expertise isn't really straight military matters, but she does very well with information.

[Barquiel]

Hackulator wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Hackulator wrote...

People get mad at Ashley for hating on you for joining Cerberus. In case you didn't notice, SHE WAS RIGHT.

No, she wasn't.

If Shepard didn't join Cerberus in ME2, no more human colonies would be left. Anderson and the council even tell you it's up to you to stop the collectors.

Look while I love ME2 for its characters, the entire plot makes no sense. Regardless, she was right that Cerberus are bad guys, and considering that they literally RESURRECTED you, only a moron would be without suspicion regarding your relationship to them.

I don't blame them for being suspicious (and yes, the ME2 plot is stupid). I blame them for not doing their job. There are some really basic questions she should have asked to give Anderson and the council an idea what Shepard is up to.

[CptData]

iamweaver wrote...

CptData wrote...

By the way, no answer on the CO/XO team? I said the CO and XO shouldn't be too similar so they have different PoVs on the same situation - and find a better solution. That's why Kaidan and Ashley should have been XOs in ME3. Bet they were planned to take the position as CO of Admiral Andersons mobile strategic HQ, the Normandy.

That would make sense. But I was career enlisted, so I never would have seen the workings at that level of detail.  Working at the Pentagon gave me opportunities to observe things from an interesting perspective, but always from the outside.

Well, and I never served in an army. I'm just using some logic to get behind all the things. Ashley and Kaidan (now both officers, since Ashley somehow made it to Lt. Cmdr., same rank as Shepard) are the highest ranking Alliance officers of the original Normandy. Anderson knows both very well. Obviously the VS was the logical choice to take place as CO under Anderson.

However, Anderson never took the Normandy as his flagship but assigned Shepard as her new CO. The VS was no Spectre at that time PLUS s/he had to accept the orders of Admiral Anderson. In fact: an Admiral can promote a Lt. Cmdr. to a CO of a ship even if there's a higher ranking officer available. It's just not the common way.

So we have that situation:

Shepard - CO
Ashley/Kaidan - XO

Or with Admiral Anderson on board:

Anderson - Fleet CO
Ashley/Kaidan - CO
Unknown officer - XO

[CptData]

Xilizhra wrote...

Since the Normandy is an Alliance ship, I'm quite sure the VS is simply the logical choice. There was a reason why Anderson picked the VS for that ship. Since he's an Admiral he's most likely not the CO of the Normandy but resides as Admiral on board of his flagship. The VS (Ash as Lt. Cmdr. - same rank as Shepard - or Major Alenko) works quite well as CO.

Ugh. I don't want it to be an Alliance ship; I'm sick of having all-human crews with a few token nonhumans tossed in. It would, to me, have worked far better as a cross-species effort ship sent by the Council. Maybe Renegades wouldn't take it, but... bah.

Also, Liara's area of expertise isn't really straight military matters, but she does very well with information.

Which is simply not enough.
The XO on board of a military ship needs military (tactical) experience. Liara has none.
She might be a CO or XO of a science vessel or so, but definitely not on board of a military ship like the Normandy.

For the jazz: Spock was Kirk's XO on board of the Enterprise. Despite the fact that ship had a military tradition, it was assigned to a mostly scientific mission. Starfleet saw itself as a less military-than-scientific organization.
The Alliance, however, is clearly a fully military organization with little (if at all) scientific parts incorporated. The Normandy is a war ship.

By the way, the "token aliens" are there because they're Shepard's team. They trust him/her, they're friends with most of the crew as well, trusted allies and more. However, it is still an Alliance vessel.

In a way I'm sad there was never an option where Spectre Shepard was able to choose his/her XO. S/he could pick freely as Spectre. As Alliance Officer, s/he could only accept the given one - which should be the second highest-ranked officer. In that case, it's Ashley. Or Kaidan, 'though the protocol kinda gets violated since he's outranking Shepard.

[Ageless Face]

Barquiel wrote...

I don't blame them for being suspicious (and yes, the ME2 plot is stupid). I blame them for not doing their job. There are some really basic questions she should have asked to give Anderson and the council an idea what Shepard is up to.

Would you do your job if you will see your dead friend/lover comes to life and working for your enemy?

Kaidan/Ashley have every right to "not do their jobs" on Horizon. They are in a huge shock.

Besides, Anderson could have easily contact Shepard. It's not a real problem.

[Barquiel]

Xilizhra wrote...

Besides that, Liara is no officer of the Alliance. She's an intel source, but nowhere even close to something that you could call XO. Actually, Garrus is the better choice here, especially since he has some military experience. On the other hand, he's simply too much like Shepard.

Honestly... I don't think Ashley makes a very good officer, or at least I have no proof that she would be. Garrus, on the other hand, I do have proof for, and I consider him more or less my second in command. Liara I consider an equal in a slightly different area of operations.

With all the paperwork that incurs, I think Garrus would hate it. Liara is probably too busy (SB stuff and her time capsule).

Miranda was perfect for the job

[Ageless Face]

Okay, why can't the XO be a simple crew member? Pressly was the XO in ME1. Can't Joker or Adams be the XO?

[iamweaver]

Since it's vaguely related:

I decided foolishly to restart from ME1, with a FemShep. My only full run-through back whenever I played ME1, I was a Sentinel, so I never took Kaiden, and Ash was my tank.

Just now, I released Liara from the Prothean Barrier device - and the first thing I noticed is that Ashley isn't there debating whether we should release a potential threat or not. Man, I think I'm going to miss her paranoiac a**.

[Ryzaki]

iamweaver wrote...

Since it's vaguely related:

I decided foolishly to restart from ME1, with a FemShep. My only full run-through back whenever I played ME1, I was a Sentinel, so I never took Kaiden, and Ash was my tank.

Just now, I released Liara from the Prothean Barrier device - and the first thing I noticed is that Ashley isn't there debating whether we should release a potential threat or not. Man, I think I'm going to miss her paranoiac a**.

Honestly I had a dude Shep took Ashley and the first thing I thought was "damn why are you all up in Liara's face? Back. Off." 

And I can't stand Liara. *shakes head* 

I need to replay ME1.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juillet 2012 - 10:24 .

[CptData]

Barquiel wrote...


With all the paperwork that incurs, I think Garrus would hate it. Liara is probably too busy (SB stuff and her time capsule).

Miranda was perfect for the job

You're right.

Let's try the RP-experience. For me an XO should have a different PoV than the CO.

In ME1, it was supposed to be Pressly, but he had too few lines to express his thoughts. All he had to say was stuff about aliens and that he disapprove them on board. That's it.
Therefore, RP-wise, Kaidan and Ashley felt a tad more like XO's or as "right hand men". They really did. 
Liara's job was intel, mixed with a light hind of McGuffin - to find a plot device.
Garrus felt like a pupil to Shepard, who acted as his mentor.
Wrex was simply the gruff big dude that you don't wanna mess things up with, but he's also the most reliable gun you can bring.
Tali had a small role compared to the rest.

In ME2, Miranda clearly acted as intel source and XO, no doubt. She felt like Shepard's right hand. And in some way, Jacob felt like HER right hand.
Most of the other guys had very special roles, except maybe the DLC characters.

And in ME3? Somehow BW missed to give you an idea who the XO is. There's no "right hand man" anymore. The closest one filling that role is Garrus. Liara - nope. She doesn't feel that way. She's acting as a valuable source of intel, but doesn't feel like Shepard's right hand. You can play the game that way, if you want, but even without taking Garrus on the missions, he feels more like the one I can trust to put the Normandy in his hands than anyone else.

Well. Except Ashley or Kaidan.

HagarIshay wrote...

Okay, why can't the XO be a simple crew member? Pressly was the XO in ME1. Can't Joker or Adams be the XO?

Adams - nope.
Joker - nah. Paper work.

Modifié par CptData, 10 juillet 2012 - 10:27 .

[Barquiel]

HagarIshay wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

I don't blame them for being suspicious (and yes, the ME2 plot is stupid). I blame them for not doing their job. There are some really basic questions she should have asked to give Anderson and the council an idea what Shepard is up to.

Would you do your job if you will see your dead friend/lover comes to life and working for your enemy?

Kaidan/Ashley have every right to "not do their jobs" on Horizon. They are in a huge shock.

Besides, Anderson could have easily contact Shepard. It's not a real problem.

I also blame Shepard

There's actual evidence that Shep could present (scans, intel, Mordin's countermeasure, etc.), but no...that would be too easy.

But I think the VS should have asked some reasonable questions too.

[Ageless Face]

CptData wrote...
Adams - nope.
Joker - nah. Paper work.

Why not Adams?

And EDI can do all the paper work for Joker.

(Wait, why can't EDI be the XO?)

Anyway, there are many crew members. Any of them can fill that role.

Barquiel wrote...
I also blame Shepard 

There's actual evidence that Shep could present (scans, intel, Mordin's countermeasure, etc.), but no...that would be too easy.

But I think the VS should have asked some reasonable questions too.

 

Yep. Shepard was an idiot on Horizon. S/he just stood there... Didn't even try to explain anything except for "the collectors are now wokring for the reapers. What, you don't believe me even when I gave you no proof at all?! You can't listen to reason, can you?" 

Kaidan and Ashley could have questioned Shepard, it's true. But honestly, after what they've been through just half hour before they saw Shepard, and then the not very thorough explanation from him/her about the situation... I let this one pass. 

Modifié par HagarIshay, 10 juillet 2012 - 10:37 .

[Xilizhra]

And in ME3? Somehow BW missed to give you an idea who the XO is. There's no "right hand man" anymore. The closest one filling that role is Garrus. Liara - nope. She doesn't feel that way. She's acting as a valuable source of intel, but doesn't feel like Shepard's right hand. You can play the game that way, if you want, but even without taking Garrus on the missions, he feels more like the one I can trust to put the Normandy in his hands than anyone else.

Garrus may be my right hand. Liara, as I said before, is my equal in a slightly different field, and definitely the one I'm closest to while planning things.

[ShepGrimr]

saved kaiden back in me1. Ash wanted to go down fighting so i gave her the wish. I had actually thought that somehow harbringer would find her corpse and bring her back as a huminoid reaper and saren sort of a end boss at least that's the way i would of ended it in ME style

[Barquiel]

CptData wrote...

You're right.

Let's try the RP-experience. For me an XO should have a different PoV than the CO.

In ME1, it was supposed to be Pressly, but he had too few lines to express his thoughts. All he had to say was stuff about aliens and that he disapprove them on board. That's it.
Therefore, RP-wise, Kaidan and Ashley felt a tad more like XO's or as "right hand men". They really did. 
Liara's job was intel, mixed with a light hind of McGuffin - to find a plot device.
Garrus felt like a pupil to Shepard, who acted as his mentor.
Wrex was simply the gruff big dude that you don't wanna mess things up with, but he's also the most reliable gun you can bring.
Tali had a small role compared to the rest.

Well, I see Liara as Shepard's closest confidant...but that doesn't make her a good XO.

The ME2 (cerberus) crewmembers have great respect for Miranda. They believe she (and Shepard) will get the job done. We know Miranda regularly talks to the crew of the Normandy (there are some banter).

Liara simply doesn't know the alliance crew, and they don't know who she is.

Modifié par Barquiel, 10 juillet 2012 - 11:06 .

[Ryzaki]

If talking to the crew is a good show...Garrus is shown doing such. He's the only one I think ever shown talking directly to a random crewmember and not just another squadmate. (Though another squadmate is with him if you have Javik).

[Ryzaki]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

If talking to the crew is a good show...Garrus is shown doing such. He's the only one I think ever shown talking directly to a random crewmember and not just another squadmate. (Though another squadmate is with him if you have Javik).

I assume characters like Cortez and Adams count as "squadmates" for these purposes, then?

Random crewmember.

I wouldn't consider Cortez and Adams as random.

[The Spamming Troll]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Yoshiyuki Ly wrote...

Did you visit her in the hospital? Give her any gifts? Were you nice to her most of the time?

If your answers to all three questions are no, then I'm not surprised.

1-Like twice
2-No, Didn't know I could and I really shouldn't
3-No, she wasn't nice to me in Horizon even though I romanced her....

how could you kill ash shes..... sniff was one of my favorite me1 characters and if you think about it she had a right to be pissed on horizon imagine if the love of your life died and then came back to life two years later and joined a terroists organization how would you act

i would have sex with them immediately.