17 réponses à ce sujet

[TheNecroFiend]

I'm assuming this ability is more for Rogues who want to  brawl like warriors since it negates Backstab. So it's only use is for Dualist builds? I can't bring myself to make another Warrior or DW backstab rogue so I was thinking making a character that perfoms like a combination and go Dualist/Ranger focusing on the Dual Striking talent. He would function like a Light armored warrior with a pet. Would Dual Striking make for a gimped build?

[Duck and Cover]

seems worthless to me. only used it in the fade when I had to solo stuff and couldn't stun them and move around for a backstab.

[DragoonKain3]

You won't do as much damage as backstab CUN rogues, but you should deal comparable damage with Dual Striking. Under pinpoint striking or enemy under death hex, you should do almost equal damage to CUN rogues since Dual Stirking allows crit under these conditions. It's around 50 damage per hit at lvl 18, 75 base damage critting, around 90 dps if you believe dual striking 'whiffs' 40% of the time (discobirds estimations), but an astounding ~100dps if it whiffs 33% of the time (anecdotal evidence that its roughly 1 in three strikes it 'whiffs'). This is not including the damage your pet does, which should put you over the best DPS a CUN assassin/bard rogue can do.



Assuming you're going DEX build, you would have superior survivability and attack rating in exchange as well. It has around 30% better hit rate and around 40% better dodge rate than dagger/dagger CUN builds, which is significant because my max DEX dodge tank with ~100 attack rating still only has a 74% hit rate at nightmare.



In anycase, DEX rogues using dual striking isn't gimped by any stretch of the imagination. If anything, it's arguable the best overall Rogue build, if doubled up with a pet via ranger and supported by death hexes via mages.

[TheNecroFiend]

Cool, thanks. I completley forgot about Death Hex. Yeah I was thinking going DEX so I can stand toe to toe longer.

[castle9mm]

I've used it in test builds with dual dagger wielding dex based berserker/reaver warrior.  Since warriors can't backstab, it's not an issue.  The increase damage works well with Berserker increasing damage and increased crit chance from the Warrior Bravery.  Reaver adds increasing damage the lower your health too.  Couple that with Momentum, poision and the DLC talent from Warden's Keep that also increases your attack speed and you have a blur of blades.

[SusanStoHelit]

TheNecroFiend wrote...

Cool, thanks. I completley forgot about Death Hex. Yeah I was thinking going DEX so I can stand toe to toe longer.

Don't forget the changes that the 1.02 update have made to equation for your rogue. I suspect many rogues will now be neither dex rogues nor cunning rogues, but a more balanced combination.

[Rolandable]

Never seemed to use it, but I am a cunning dagger rogue bard/assasain.

[DragoonKain3]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

TheNecroFiend wrote...

Cool, thanks. I completley forgot about Death Hex. Yeah I was thinking going DEX so I can stand toe to toe longer.

Don't forget the changes that the 1.02 update have made to equation for your rogue. I suspect many rogues will now be neither dex rogues nor cunning rogues, but a more balanced combination.

There are no changes in the 1.02 update that affects the rogue significantly. All rogue discussion was already assuming that you were already using the DEX hotfix for dagger pre-1.02, and 1.02 just formalizes this.

As such, its still viable (if not optimal) to be heavy CUN or heavy DEX for your dagger now as it is back then.

Modifié par DragoonKain3, 09 décembre 2009 - 09:31 .

[Matthew Young CT]

DragoonKain3 wrote...
As such, its still viable (if not optimal) to be heavy CUN or heavy DEX for your dagger now as it is back then.

Pure cunning rogue is still optimal DPS.

[Silensfurtim]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

DragoonKain3 wrote...
As such, its still viable (if not optimal) to be heavy CUN or heavy DEX for your dagger now as it is back then.

Pure cunning rogue is still optimal DPS.

yep

[TheNecroFiend]

Does it make sense to grab Dual Weapon Expert? I know that Dual Striking will negate the critical strike chance but how often does the bleed damage proc? And what kind of increase to DPS am I looking at? Just a minor tick for one damage for a few seconds? Would it be a waste of a talent for the bleed proc alone?

[Silensfurtim]

DWE gives little benefits. some people dont grab the talent.

[Koralt]

I consider Dual Striking a talent for DW Warriors.

TheNecroFiend wrote...

Does it make sense to grab Dual Weapon Expert? I know that Dual Striking will negate the critical strike chance but how often does the bleed damage proc? And what kind of increase to DPS am I looking at? Just a minor tick for one damage for a few seconds? Would it be a waste of a talent for the bleed proc alone?

Dual-Weapon Expert is a win-more talent, and it was bugged last I checked.  The Warden's Keep talents that drain health proc'd the bleeding effect on your character.  Don't get it at all unless that's been fixed, and don't make it a priority even if it has.

EDIT:  Just tested DWE with Tainted Blade.  No conflict.

EDIT 2: Tested in combat with Tainted Blade, and it does proc on me.  So unless you're a masochist or can handle the bleed effect, don't get DWE.

Modifié par Koralt, 11 décembre 2009 - 09:14 .

[enhaR907]

Used it purely when nothing else was available.

[I ReVaNChisT I]

i thought it was good for lower levels but slowly losts its appeal as i got momentum and higher crit chance weapons/items, does anyone else wish that game would reflect when you got a crit hit like it did in NWN?

Modifié par I ReVaNChisT I, 11 décembre 2009 - 08:47 .

[AgnosticTheocrat]

I ReVaNChisT I wrote...

i thought it was good for lower levels but slowly losts its appeal as i got momentum and higher crit chance weapons/items, does anyone else wish that game would reflect when you got a crit hit like it did in NWN?

I felt the same way. It seems like a good way to up your damage early on if you're not running a stealth-based rogue, but by the late game you have increased crit chance couple with extra attacks from momentum, which means using dual-strike can severely hamper your damage output.

[Gecon]

I'm always using it whenever I cannot get into backstab positions.



Also uber on mobs that have Death Hex on them.

[Haplose]

I sometimes use it. I sometimes like to leave my party behind me on hold and solo some section. That's when it comes in handy while Dirty Fighting is on refresh. Also usefull that can activate it with no stamina left...