206 réponses à ce sujet

[KotorEffect3]

spiriticon wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.

The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.

Semi-relevant if Bioware didn't go out of their way to advertise certain key elements of the franchise that were not followed in the last ten minutes of the game.

IBut it was followed in the rest of the game. The last 10 minutes does not represent all of Mass Effect 3.

Don't expect them to follow common sense.  To them 10 minutes equates 40 hours.

[Lyrebon]

wantedman dan wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.

The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.

Broken: found here

1: violently separated into parts : shattered

2: damaged or altered by breaking: asa : having undergone or been subjected to fracture <abroken leg>b of land surfaces : being irregular, interrupted, or full of obstacles

3: violated by transgression <a broken promise>

Where does that say anything about being strictly limited to the physical condition?

In the first point.

Trololololol.

Modifié par Lyrebon, 16 mai 2012 - 09:53 .

[VibrantYacht]

Sohlito wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Sohlito wrote...

I don't think they will. They should to some degree, as that is just good business sense and would show they still value consumer trust/satisfaction.

KotorEffect3 wrote...

If anyone has been playing the victim it has been the fanbase

You've been crying just as much lately, someone victimize you?

All I did was make an observation.  The fact that you took it as more than that must mean I hit a sore spot

Actually no, I'm cool buddy. See, I made a factual observation. You, literally have post after post in thread after thread doing exactly what you're supposedly rallying against.

The pot can only call the kettle black for so long. Just chill a bit. Sip on some Kool-aid or something.

[ReXspec]

spiriticon wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.

The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.

Semi-relevant if Bioware didn't go out of their way to advertise certain key elements of the franchise that were not followed in the last ten minutes of the game.

IBut it was followed in the rest of the game. The last 10 minutes does not represent all of Mass Effect 3.

As a game?  No.  As a story (which is what the Mass Effect series is--an epic story; the selling point of the franchise along with decisions and characters) then yes.  The story of Mass Effect, your choices, and characters are the selling point of Mass Effect as a franchise.  That said, throwing something as critical as narrative coherency out the proverbial window in the last ten minutes can only lead to disaster and fan outcry.

[wantedman dan]

spiriticon wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.

The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.

Semi-relevant if Bioware didn't go out of their way to advertise certain key elements of the franchise that were not followed in the last ten minutes of the game.

IBut it was followed in the rest of the game. The last 10 minutes does not represent all of Mass Effect 3.

Actually, the final moments of the game represents the entire trilogy, as it shows whether or not your actions made any discernible difference.

Modifié par wantedman dan, 16 mai 2012 - 09:54 .

[wantedman dan]

Lyrebon wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.

The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.

Broken: found here

1: violently separated into parts : shattered

2: damaged or altered by breaking: asa : having undergone or been subjected to fracture <abroken leg>b of land surfaces : being irregular, interrupted, or full of obstacles

3: violated by transgression <a broken promise>

Where does that say anything about being strictly limited to the physical condition?

In the first point.

Trololololol.

Wrong. Not even caring if you are trolling.

[ReXspec]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.

The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.

Semi-relevant if Bioware didn't go out of their way to advertise certain key elements of the franchise that were not followed in the last ten minutes of the game.

IBut it was followed in the rest of the game. The last 10 minutes does not represent all of Mass Effect 3.

Don't expect them to follow common sense.  To them 10 minutes equates 40 hours.

I am not unwilling to say that Mass Effect 3 was an awesome game as a whole, but, for a story driven RPG, the ending is the crown jewel of the franchise, and Bioware botched it.

Modifié par ReXspec, 16 mai 2012 - 09:57 .

[Lyrebon]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.

The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.

Semi-relevant if Bioware didn't go out of their way to advertise certain key elements of the franchise that were not followed in the last ten minutes of the game.

IBut it was followed in the rest of the game. The last 10 minutes does not represent all of Mass Effect 3.

Don't expect them to follow common sense.  To them 10 minutes equates 40 hours.

The investiture into the story and the characters being bombed in the last 10 minutes isn't worth feeling hugely dissapointed about?

What was the point in building up our Shepards, who was unique and intimately identifiable to each one of us, only to have their journey end with them becoming a mindless husk who accepts anything the Catalyst says. Who, in his/her final moments is not granted a heroes death because we don't have enough information to understand the consequences.

It's an insult to the literary critic in all of us.

[Lyrebon]

wantedman dan wrote...

Lyrebon wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.

The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.

Broken: found here

1: violently separated into parts : shattered

2: damaged or altered by breaking: asa : having undergone or been subjected to fracture <abroken leg>b of land surfaces : being irregular, interrupted, or full of obstacles

3: violated by transgression <a broken promise>

Where does that say anything about being strictly limited to the physical condition?

In the first point.

Trololololol.

Wrong. Not even caring if you are trolling.

Nope, totally being serious, no banditry here. 

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.

The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.

Semi-relevant if Bioware didn't go out of their way to advertise certain key elements of the franchise that were not followed in the last ten minutes of the game.

IBut it was followed in the rest of the game. The last 10 minutes does not represent all of Mass Effect 3.

Don't expect them to follow common sense.  To them 10 minutes equates 40 hours.

"Mass Effect 3 will be our most ambitious undertaking" that is puffery
" The game won't have an A, B or C ending" and then delivering just that is false advertising, but I don't expect logic to interfere with your train of thought.

[wantedman dan]

Lyrebon wrote...

Nope, totally being serious, no banditry here. 

Mmhmm.

[spiriticon]

Lyrebon wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.

The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.

Logic standing on its head is broken to me. When the cuckoo bird starts quacking it's broken.

If the cuckoo bird was made by the makers to quack because they want it to quack, then it isn't broken. Its just their way of doing things. No one might like it, but that's how it is.

[KotorEffect3]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.

The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.

Semi-relevant if Bioware didn't go out of their way to advertise certain key elements of the franchise that were not followed in the last ten minutes of the game.

IBut it was followed in the rest of the game. The last 10 minutes does not represent all of Mass Effect 3.

Don't expect them to follow common sense.  To them 10 minutes equates 40 hours.

"Mass Effect 3 will be our most ambitious undertaking" that is puffery
" The game won't have an A, B or C ending" and then delivering just that is false advertising, but I don't expect logic to interfere with your train of thought.

Can't make a post without being a douchebag can you?  Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to. 

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 16 mai 2012 - 10:02 .

[wantedman dan]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to.  ****** off

Prove it.

[ReXspec]

The ending was an insult to the series as a whole. It defeated the concepts of galactic unity, making decisions that mattered/were varied, and creating consequences based on our actions. The whole catalyst sequence (which didn't make sense in itself with it's broken circular logic) betrayed these established, advertised franchise hooks that kept fans loyal to the series and the company for so damn long.

Modifié par ReXspec, 16 mai 2012 - 10:03 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.

The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.

Semi-relevant if Bioware didn't go out of their way to advertise certain key elements of the franchise that were not followed in the last ten minutes of the game.

IBut it was followed in the rest of the game. The last 10 minutes does not represent all of Mass Effect 3.

Don't expect them to follow common sense.  To them 10 minutes equates 40 hours.

"Mass Effect 3 will be our most ambitious undertaking" that is puffery
" The game won't have an A, B or C ending" and then delivering just that is false advertising, but I don't expect logic to interfere with your train of thought.

Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to.  ****** off

I didn't use the word ruin. I can say the last ten minutes pretty much made everything prior completely pointless and irrelevant, and most people would agree. I can also say in a litterary sense the ending flat out sucked, and I wouldn't be wrong.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 16 mai 2012 - 10:04 .

[wantedman dan]

spiriticon wrote...

If the cuckoo bird was made by the makers to quack because they want it to quack, then it isn't broken. Its just their way of doing things. No one might like it, but that's how it is.

That analogy is incorrect as you don't need to make choices about buying a first-tier--and second-tier--cuckoo clock which chirped, before buying--and making sense of--the third, which quacked.

[wantedman dan]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Can't make a post without being a douchebag can you?  Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to. 

Pot, meet edited kettle.

[Lyrebon]

spiriticon wrote...

Lyrebon wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.

The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.

Logic standing on its head is broken to me. When the cuckoo bird starts quacking it's broken.

If the cuckoo bird was made by the makers to quack because they want it to quack, then it isn't broken. Its just their way of doing things. No one might like it, but that's how it is.

In a literary context when you go from reasonable story-building to completely changing the genetic structure of that established story, the quack is rather surprising. Especially when, from this context, it makes no discernible sense, even if it was intended. Therefore, with the logic of the story being broken, so is the story itself.

How would you feel if in, hmm, Harry Potter, the author suddenly twisted everything on its head and revealed Harry was Voldemort's son and a pink fairy came to earth, waved her wand and Voldemort and Harry went skipping around Hogwarts lake holding hands, like the past 7 years had meant nothing?

I'm sure the author would have intended it but it's still broken. Thankfully Rowling didn't do that.

Modifié par Lyrebon, 16 mai 2012 - 10:06 .

[KotorEffect3]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.

The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.

Semi-relevant if Bioware didn't go out of their way to advertise certain key elements of the franchise that were not followed in the last ten minutes of the game.

IBut it was followed in the rest of the game. The last 10 minutes does not represent all of Mass Effect 3.

Don't expect them to follow common sense.  To them 10 minutes equates 40 hours.

"Mass Effect 3 will be our most ambitious undertaking" that is puffery
" The game won't have an A, B or C ending" and then delivering just that is false advertising, but I don't expect logic to interfere with your train of thought.

Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to.  ****** off

I didn't use the word ruin. I can say the last ten minutes pretty much made everything prior completely pointless and irrelevant, and most people would agree. I can also say in a litterary sense the ending flat out sucked, and I wouldn't be wrong.

And you are implying that I thought the endings were good.  I never once said that (though it woudn't matter if I did like them since that is my subjective opinion that I am entitled to).  So yeah maybe you want to actualy make sure I say something before you accuse me of saying it.

[VibrantYacht]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to.  ****** off

I wrote this yesterday in another thread... you didn't respond to it then. You didn't respond to my repost in this thread of someone who made a decent point (nor did you respond to the original post). No reason to expect a change, but prove me wrong.

Anyway, here's what I wrote:

You're looking at this in a... peculiar way. You seem to be assigning value based on the amount of time something lasts, not the quality of content. As someone previous to this post said, the ending is very important to any story. It can make or break the entire narrative. In this case, many people think it did the latter. When choices are nullified (as they are in the ending) the foundation of what Mass Effect is comes crumbling down, dragging the entire series with it. Mass Effect has always been based around dialogue and choice (or even, in some cases, the illusion of it), the last 10 minutes seems to try its best to bring it all down. Once it has collapsed. those who are dissatisfied look for answers and more flaws in the experience poke their head out.

Mass Effect 3's ending negates everything that came before it. That doesn't mean that ME1 or ME2 were/are bad games (in fact, ME1 remains my 2nd favorite game of all time), but when replaying you now always know, you are working your way towards something that ignores everything you are doing. This wouldn't matter if Mass Effect was a shooter or action game. However, it declared itself to be an RPG, we were promised choice, and when the ending didn't deliver the entire series gets dragged down with it. Like I said, with the foundations gone in the last 10 minutes, the Mass Effect proverbial "building" collapses.

ME3's ending, however, left me feeling absolutely empty for a few days following my seeing of it. That is certainly not a good thing. However it is a testament to what was done right. Things were done so right up to that point that I cared enough for the Mass Effect universe to be emotionally destroyed by it for a few days. 10 minutes, made over 72 hours of my life feel empty. I suppose you could consider that an accomplishment. I'm now part of those who now look at the rubble and see the flaws. I suppose you could say another accomplishment of the ending was the absolute destruction of its own universe in 10 minutes. Quite remarkable.

TL;DR: Knock out the foundations of the series in a crucial part, the whole proverbial building falls down.

Modifié par VibrantYacht, 16 mai 2012 - 10:07 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

KotorEffect3 wrote...



And you are implying that I thought the endings were good.  I never once said that (though it woudn't matter if I did like them since that is my subjective opinion that I am entitled to).  So yeah maybe you want to actualy make sure I say something before you accuse me of saying it.

I don't recall implying that you did, I did however respond to your assertion that I said the last 10 minutes "ruined" the previous 40 hours.

[spiriticon]

A lot of the confusion about the endings stems from the starchild, that is true. But that's because nobody knows what they can trust about what he says.

If you trust him completely, then control is the best ending because everybody lives and Shepard has control over the Reapers. Mass relays live and the only person that dies is Shepard. People like to think that is impossible however, and like to think of control as the bad option giving in to indoctrination.

If you don't trust the starchild's words about control, then you have no reason to trust what he says about the relays being destroyed if you choose destroy. So the mass relays need not go supernova anyway.

Whether you trust the starchild or not, synthesis is always going to be wierd but again there are arguments for its pros and cons in other topics.

[ReXspec]

VibrantYacht wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to.  ****** off

I wrote this yesterday in another thread... you didn't respond to it then. You didn't respond to my repost in this thread of someone who made a decent point (nor did you respond to the original post). No reason to expect a change, but prove me wrong.

Anyway, here's what I wrote:

You're looking at this in a... peculiar way. You seem to be assigning value based on the amount of time something lasts, not the quality of content. As someone previous to this post said, the ending is very important to any story. It can make or break the entire narrative. In this case, many people think it did the latter. When choices are nullified (as they are in the ending) the foundation of what Mass Effect is comes crumbling down, dragging the entire series with it. Mass Effect has always been based around dialogue and choice (or even, in some cases, the illusion of it), the last 10 minutes seems to try its best to bring it all down. Once it has collapsed. those who are dissatisfied look for answers and more flaws in the experience poke their head out.

Mass Effect 3's ending negates everything that came before it. That doesn't mean that ME1 or ME2 were/are bad games (in fact, ME1 remains my 2nd favorite game of all time), but when replaying you now always know, you are working your way towards something that ignores everything you are doing. This wouldn't matter if Mass Effect was a shooter or action game. However, it declared itself to be an RPG, we were promised choice, and when the ending didn't deliver the entire series gets dragged down with it. Like I said, with the foundations gone in the last 10 minutes, the Mass Effect proverbial "building" collapses.

ME3's ending, however, left me feeling absolutely empty for a few days following my seeing of it. That is certainly not a good thing. However it is a testament to what was done right. Things were done so right up to that point that I cared enough for the Mass Effect universe to be emotionally destroyed by it for a few days. 10 minutes, made over 72 hours of my life feel empty. I suppose you could consider that an accomplishment. I'm now part of those who now look at the rubble and see the flaws. I suppose you could say another accomplishment of the ending was the absolute destruction of its own universe in 10 minutes. Quite remarkable.

TL;DR: Knock out the foundations of the series in a crucial part, the whole proverbial building falls down.

This... is amazing.  Basically what I've been trying to say, but with more words.

+1  <3

[KotorEffect3]

VibrantYacht wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to.  ****** off

I wrote this yesterday in another thread... you didn't respond to it then. You didn't respond to my repost in this thread of someone who made a decent point (nor did you respond to the original post). No reason to expect a change, but prove me wrong.

Anyway, here's what I wrote:

You're looking at this in a... peculiar way. You seem to be assigning value based on the amount of time something lasts, not the quality of content. As someone previous to this post said, the ending is very important to any story. It can make or break the entire narrative. In this case, many people think it did the latter. When choices are nullified (as they are in the ending) the foundation of what Mass Effect is comes crumbling down, dragging the entire series with it. Mass Effect has always been based around dialogue and choice (or even, in some cases, the illusion of it), the last 10 minutes seems to try its best to bring it all down. Once it has collapsed. those who are dissatisfied look for answers and more flaws in the experience poke their head out.

Mass Effect 3's ending negates everything that came before it. That doesn't mean that ME1 or ME2 were/are bad games (in fact, ME1 remains my 2nd favorite game of all time), but when replaying you now always know, you are working your way towards something that ignores everything you are doing. This wouldn't matter if Mass Effect was a shooter or action game. However, it declared itself to be an RPG, we were promised choice, and when the ending didn't deliver the entire series gets dragged down with it. Like I said, with the foundations gone in the last 10 minutes, the Mass Effect proverbial "building" collapses.

ME3's ending, however, left me feeling absolutely empty for a few days following my seeing of it. That is certainly not a good thing. However it is a testament to what was done right. Things were done so right up to that point that I cared enough for the Mass Effect universe to be emotionally destroyed by it for a few days. 10 minutes, made over 72 hours of my life feel empty. I suppose you could consider that an accomplishment. I'm now part of those who now look at the rubble and see the flaws. I suppose you could say another accomplishment of the ending was the absolute destruction of its own universe in 10 minutes. Quite remarkable.

TL;DR: Knock out the foundations of the series in a crucial part, the whole proverbial building falls down.

I could see where the ending my knock the wind out of your sails I didn't even like it but you can't say that it stopped you from having fun getting there.  Look either you can reconcile the ending or you can't but if you do manage to come to terms with it than all 3 games are still fun to play.  I have already beaten ME 3 5 or 6 times partly because in a sense the entire game is an ending (multiple arcs are resolved through out the course of the game well before the end)