206 réponses à ce sujet

[wantedman dan]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I could see where the ending my knock the wind out of your sails I didn't even like it but you can't say that it stopped you from having fun getting there.  Look either you can reconcile the ending or you can't but if you do manage to come to terms with it than all 3 games are still fun to play.  I have already beaten ME 3 5 or 6 times partly because in a sense the entire game is an ending (multiple arcs are resolved through out the course of the game well before the end)

No, but you can say that the ending nullified the very fun you had during the journey, which is what happened to a large amount of the fanbase.

[KotorEffect3]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Paying money for something doesn't excuse an overinflated sense of entitlement and the rude overall manner in which your movement has treated bioware.  I know they are doing it for free but they really should charge you for the EC.

My "movement."

Your assumptions are as adorable as your arguments are vague. If you're so upset about the EC, don't download it--that's the end of your story.

If a product is broken, it is a right of the consumer to demand that it be fixed. This is one of the few occasions in which ad populum logic is acceptable; if enough people say it's broken, something's wrong.

KotorEffect3 wrote...

And no the customer is not always right

In this instance, the customer is right. 

It's quite clear he is trolling...

lol that is always the story here isn't it?  "I don't like what he has to say he will not conform to majority opinon, therefore he must be trolling."  Besides weren't you buddies with much of the CDF from before?

You've yet to come up with an intelligent response to anything being said to you or to support anyting you yourself are saying, if your response to everything is "Hur durr ME3 ending was deh Bawmb" it is very easy to assume you are trolling.

I'd say that was implying that I liked the ending.  You can apologize now.

[ReXspec]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

VibrantYacht wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to.  ****** off

I wrote this yesterday in another thread... you didn't respond to it then. You didn't respond to my repost in this thread of someone who made a decent point (nor did you respond to the original post). No reason to expect a change, but prove me wrong.

Anyway, here's what I wrote:

You're looking at this in a... peculiar way. You seem to be assigning value based on the amount of time something lasts, not the quality of content. As someone previous to this post said, the ending is very important to any story. It can make or break the entire narrative. In this case, many people think it did the latter. When choices are nullified (as they are in the ending) the foundation of what Mass Effect is comes crumbling down, dragging the entire series with it. Mass Effect has always been based around dialogue and choice (or even, in some cases, the illusion of it), the last 10 minutes seems to try its best to bring it all down. Once it has collapsed. those who are dissatisfied look for answers and more flaws in the experience poke their head out.

Mass Effect 3's ending negates everything that came before it. That doesn't mean that ME1 or ME2 were/are bad games (in fact, ME1 remains my 2nd favorite game of all time), but when replaying you now always know, you are working your way towards something that ignores everything you are doing. This wouldn't matter if Mass Effect was a shooter or action game. However, it declared itself to be an RPG, we were promised choice, and when the ending didn't deliver the entire series gets dragged down with it. Like I said, with the foundations gone in the last 10 minutes, the Mass Effect proverbial "building" collapses.

ME3's ending, however, left me feeling absolutely empty for a few days following my seeing of it. That is certainly not a good thing. However it is a testament to what was done right. Things were done so right up to that point that I cared enough for the Mass Effect universe to be emotionally destroyed by it for a few days. 10 minutes, made over 72 hours of my life feel empty. I suppose you could consider that an accomplishment. I'm now part of those who now look at the rubble and see the flaws. I suppose you could say another accomplishment of the ending was the absolute destruction of its own universe in 10 minutes. Quite remarkable.

TL;DR: Knock out the foundations of the series in a crucial part, the whole proverbial building falls down.

I could see where the ending my knock the wind out of your sails I didn't even like it but you can't say that it stopped you from having fun getting there.  Look either you can reconcile the ending or you can't but if you do manage to come to terms with it than all 3 games are still fun to play.  I have already beaten ME 3 5 or 6 times partly because in a sense the entire game is an ending (multiple arcs are resolved through out the course of the game well before the end)

NO ONE SAID THE GAMES WERE AWFUL.  It's the story and the resolution of it that left a bitter taste in almost everyone's mouth.  Seriously, I've seen reactions that ranged from "unsatisfactory" to "OMG WTF IS THIS SH!T" -- all of them are negative to some degree.

Modifié par ReXspec, 16 mai 2012 - 10:17 .

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

spiriticon wrote...

A lot of the confusion about the endings stems from the starchild, that is true. But that's because nobody knows what they can trust about what he says.

If you trust him completely, then control is the best ending because everybody lives and Shepard has control over the Reapers. Mass relays live and the only person that dies is Shepard. People like to think that is impossible however, and like to think of control as the bad option giving in to indoctrination.

If you don't trust the starchild's words about control, then you have no reason to trust what he says about the relays being destroyed if you choose destroy. So the mass relays need not go supernova anyway.

Whether you trust the starchild or not, synthesis is always going to be wierd but again there are arguments for its pros and cons in other topics.

" You will die, you will control the reapers but you will lose everything" I think that if anyone was put in that situation and the starkid said his piece and then told you to choose, you wouldn't know what to do, how do you control the reapers if you're dead? What does lose everything you have mean? Is that the same as dying? No one explained to me how destroy was suppose to work, Shepard seems awfully confident that shooting the tube will activate the crucible, but star kid didn't even have the decency to explain how any of these choices even work. Almost all of the problems with the ending stem from the starkid.

[KotorEffect3]

wantedman dan wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I could see where the ending my knock the wind out of your sails I didn't even like it but you can't say that it stopped you from having fun getting there.  Look either you can reconcile the ending or you can't but if you do manage to come to terms with it than all 3 games are still fun to play.  I have already beaten ME 3 5 or 6 times partly because in a sense the entire game is an ending (multiple arcs are resolved through out the course of the game well before the end)

No, but you can say that the ending nullified the very fun you had during the journey, which is what happened to a large amount of the fanbase.

Only in a retroactive sense (from your point of view, not saying I agree with it) but before the ending don't tell me you didn't enjoy it for at least a good 30 hours (give or take)

[spiriticon]

In a literary context when you go from reasonable story-building to completely changing the genetic structure of that established story, the quack is rather surprising. Especially when, from this context, it makes no discernible sense, even if it was intended. Therefore, with the logic of the story being broken, so is the story itself.

How would you feel if in, hmm, Harry Potter, the author suddenly twisted everything on its head and revealed Harry was Voldemort's son and a pink fairy came to earth, waved her wand and Voldemort and Harry went skipping around Hogwarts lake holding hands, like the past 7 years had meant nothing?

I'm sure the author would have intended it but it's still broken. Thankfully Rowling didn't do that.

I believe the ending was surprising because, for whatever reason I'm not going speculate, they decided to show it to you in the least amount of cutscenes possible, filling you in on the big picture but wanting you to fill the little pictures in yourself possibly through small bits and pieces fed to you throughout the 3 games.

Whether that was the right or wrong thing to do again I'm not going to speculate. I personally think it's wrong, but it's not necessarily broken.

Modifié par spiriticon, 16 mai 2012 - 10:21 .

[Sodapop VII]

wantedman dan wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Can't make a post without being a douchebag can you?  Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to. 

Pot, meet edited kettle.

Seriously you are not going to get anywhere with him. How he has not been banned is beyond me. Every topic he starts arguments due to trolling and empty, meaningless posts. Just let it go!

[KotorEffect3]

ReXspec wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

VibrantYacht wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to.  ****** off

I wrote this yesterday in another thread... you didn't respond to it then. You didn't respond to my repost in this thread of someone who made a decent point (nor did you respond to the original post). No reason to expect a change, but prove me wrong.

Anyway, here's what I wrote:

You're looking at this in a... peculiar way. You seem to be assigning value based on the amount of time something lasts, not the quality of content. As someone previous to this post said, the ending is very important to any story. It can make or break the entire narrative. In this case, many people think it did the latter. When choices are nullified (as they are in the ending) the foundation of what Mass Effect is comes crumbling down, dragging the entire series with it. Mass Effect has always been based around dialogue and choice (or even, in some cases, the illusion of it), the last 10 minutes seems to try its best to bring it all down. Once it has collapsed. those who are dissatisfied look for answers and more flaws in the experience poke their head out.

Mass Effect 3's ending negates everything that came before it. That doesn't mean that ME1 or ME2 were/are bad games (in fact, ME1 remains my 2nd favorite game of all time), but when replaying you now always know, you are working your way towards something that ignores everything you are doing. This wouldn't matter if Mass Effect was a shooter or action game. However, it declared itself to be an RPG, we were promised choice, and when the ending didn't deliver the entire series gets dragged down with it. Like I said, with the foundations gone in the last 10 minutes, the Mass Effect proverbial "building" collapses.

ME3's ending, however, left me feeling absolutely empty for a few days following my seeing of it. That is certainly not a good thing. However it is a testament to what was done right. Things were done so right up to that point that I cared enough for the Mass Effect universe to be emotionally destroyed by it for a few days. 10 minutes, made over 72 hours of my life feel empty. I suppose you could consider that an accomplishment. I'm now part of those who now look at the rubble and see the flaws. I suppose you could say another accomplishment of the ending was the absolute destruction of its own universe in 10 minutes. Quite remarkable.

TL;DR: Knock out the foundations of the series in a crucial part, the whole proverbial building falls down.

I could see where the ending my knock the wind out of your sails I didn't even like it but you can't say that it stopped you from having fun getting there.  Look either you can reconcile the ending or you can't but if you do manage to come to terms with it than all 3 games are still fun to play.  I have already beaten ME 3 5 or 6 times partly because in a sense the entire game is an ending (multiple arcs are resolved through out the course of the game well before the end)

NO ONE SAID THE GAMES WERE AWFUL.  It's the story and the resolution of it that left a bitter taste in almost everyone's mouth.  Seriously, I've seen reactions that ranged from "unsatisfactory" to "OMG WTF IS THIS SH!T" -- all of them are negative to some degree.

Maybe you havn't but I have seen people condemn the whole game in general since the ending controversy started even allowing the negativity to influence them as they started to downgrade the rest of the game.  Look at metacritic.  It has been ridiculous.

[Lyrebon]

spiriticon wrote...

A lot of the confusion about the endings stems from the starchild, that is true. But that's because nobody knows what they can trust about what he says.

If you trust him completely, then control is the best ending because everybody lives and Shepard has control over the Reapers. Mass relays live and the only person that dies is Shepard. People like to think that is impossible however, and like to think of control as the bad option giving in to indoctrination.

If you don't trust the starchild's words about control, then you have no reason to trust what he says about the relays being destroyed if you choose destroy. So the mass relays need not go supernova anyway.

Whether you trust the starchild or not, synthesis is always going to be wierd but again there are arguments for its pros and cons in other topics.

That's not the point of the concerns at all. That's just an alternative hypothesis to a single theory that came about as a solution to retconning the end entirely.

The problem with the end is that Starbrat appears from nowhere, was never alluded to, and practically demolishes everything you ever believed about the story in those few minutes you're forced to listen to his crap.

The Reapers aren't the malevolent beings you were made to believe, but simply puppets.

We know we can't trust what he says, so why does Shepard implicitly acquiesce to these methods without questioning them or finding another solution him/herself?

It completely tears away the soul of our unique Shepards and we lose any identity with them at that point.

[KotorEffect3]

Sodapop VII wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Can't make a post without being a douchebag can you?  Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to. 

Pot, meet edited kettle.

Seriously you are not going to get anywhere with him. How he has not been banned is beyond me. Every topic he starts arguments due to trolling and empty, meaningless posts. Just let it go!

And all you have been doing is crying about me for about 3 days straight now.  Don't like me?  Well than just don't read my posts.  It's simple

[AntonioA9011]

Lyrebon wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.

The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.

Semi-relevant if Bioware didn't go out of their way to advertise certain key elements of the franchise that were not followed in the last ten minutes of the game.

IBut it was followed in the rest of the game. The last 10 minutes does not represent all of Mass Effect 3.

Don't expect them to follow common sense.  To them 10 minutes equates 40 hours.

The investiture into the story and the characters being bombed in the last 10 minutes isn't worth feeling hugely dissapointed about?

What was the point in building up our Shepards, who was unique and intimately identifiable to each one of us, only to have their journey end with them becoming a mindless husk who accepts anything the Catalyst says. Who, in his/her final moments is not granted a heroes death because we don't have enough information to understand the consequences.

It's an insult to the literary critic in all of us.

Lyrebon, I actually disagree with this. In ME1 & ME2, I felt as though Commander Shepard was unique to me. I was building their personality and their traits, their allies and enemies even within the Normandy. In ME3, that uniqueness was snatched from me right in the beginning of ME3. I noticed my Shepard was acting out of character throughtout the entire game. It wasn't just the end of ME3 having absolutely no choice, though that's a part of it, it felt as though in ME3, the entire game my Shepard was no longer my Shepard. She/He was BioWare's Shepard.
I chalk it up to the art of Auto-Dialogue.

[lordofdogtown19]

Gamble said something on the BSN to the effect of Joker not leaving without good reason and asked us to give them time with the EC before we criticize it

Modifié par lordofdogtown19, 16 mai 2012 - 10:22 .

[KotorEffect3]

lordofdogtown19 wrote...

Gamble said something on the BSN to the effect of Joker not leaving without good reason and asked us to give them time with the EC before we criticize it

Interesting.

[Sodapop VII]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Sodapop VII wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Can't make a post without being a douchebag can you?  Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to. 

Pot, meet edited kettle.

Seriously you are not going to get anywhere with him. How he has not been banned is beyond me. Every topic he starts arguments due to trolling and empty, meaningless posts. Just let it go!

And all you have been doing is crying about me for about 3 days straight now.  Don't like me?  Well than just don't read my posts.  It's simple

Im talking to another user to not bother getting into any meaningful discussions with a user unwilling to do it themselves. Don't like my posts? don't read them.

[IanPolaris]

Whoever thought Autodialog was a good idea in an RPG needs to be smothered with honey and then buried up to their neck next to a fire ant nest.

-Polaris

[Apfelweinbrauer]

lordofdogtown19 wrote...

Gamble said something on the BSN to the effect of Joker not leaving without good reason and asked us to give them time with the EC before we criticize it

If Gamble would post a comment telling us that we are going to have a nice and sunny thursday, I wouldn't leave my house without an umbrella...

[Sodapop VII]

IanPolaris wrote...

Whoever thought Autodialog was a good idea in an RPG needs to be smothered with honey and then buried up to their neck next to a fire ant nest.

-Polaris

I remember people worrying about this in the days of the demo. Ah how little they knew

[Lyrebon]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

VibrantYacht wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to.  ****** off

I wrote this yesterday in another thread... you didn't respond to it then. You didn't respond to my repost in this thread of someone who made a decent point (nor did you respond to the original post). No reason to expect a change, but prove me wrong.

Anyway, here's what I wrote:

You're looking at this in a... peculiar way. You seem to be assigning value based on the amount of time something lasts, not the quality of content. As someone previous to this post said, the ending is very important to any story. It can make or break the entire narrative. In this case, many people think it did the latter. When choices are nullified (as they are in the ending) the foundation of what Mass Effect is comes crumbling down, dragging the entire series with it. Mass Effect has always been based around dialogue and choice (or even, in some cases, the illusion of it), the last 10 minutes seems to try its best to bring it all down. Once it has collapsed. those who are dissatisfied look for answers and more flaws in the experience poke their head out.

Mass Effect 3's ending negates everything that came before it. That doesn't mean that ME1 or ME2 were/are bad games (in fact, ME1 remains my 2nd favorite game of all time), but when replaying you now always know, you are working your way towards something that ignores everything you are doing. This wouldn't matter if Mass Effect was a shooter or action game. However, it declared itself to be an RPG, we were promised choice, and when the ending didn't deliver the entire series gets dragged down with it. Like I said, with the foundations gone in the last 10 minutes, the Mass Effect proverbial "building" collapses.

ME3's ending, however, left me feeling absolutely empty for a few days following my seeing of it. That is certainly not a good thing. However it is a testament to what was done right. Things were done so right up to that point that I cared enough for the Mass Effect universe to be emotionally destroyed by it for a few days. 10 minutes, made over 72 hours of my life feel empty. I suppose you could consider that an accomplishment. I'm now part of those who now look at the rubble and see the flaws. I suppose you could say another accomplishment of the ending was the absolute destruction of its own universe in 10 minutes. Quite remarkable.

TL;DR: Knock out the foundations of the series in a crucial part, the whole proverbial building falls down.

I could see where the ending my knock the wind out of your sails I didn't even like it but you can't say that it stopped you from having fun getting there.  Look either you can reconcile the ending or you can't but if you do manage to come to terms with it than all 3 games are still fun to play.  I have already beaten ME 3 5 or 6 times partly because in a sense the entire game is an ending (multiple arcs are resolved through out the course of the game well before the end)

NO ONE SAID THE GAMES WERE AWFUL.  It's the story and the resolution of it that left a bitter taste in almost everyone's mouth.  Seriously, I've seen reactions that ranged from "unsatisfactory" to "OMG WTF IS THIS SH!T" -- all of them are negative to some degree.

Maybe you havn't but I have seen people condemn the whole game in general since the ending controversy started even allowing the negativity to influence them as they started to downgrade the rest of the game.  Look at metacritic.  It has been ridiculous.

And you're basing your arguement on a bunch of people that don't highlight the majority. Seriously, this is not a matter of black and white, there are not just two sides to the debate. Even some of those that disliked the game have conflicting opinions as to why.

[AntonioA9011]

IanPolaris wrote...

Whoever thought Autodialog was a good idea in an RPG needs to be smothered with honey and then buried up to their neck next to a fire ant nest.

-Polaris

Agreed. But apparently, according to Mike Gamble, the auto-dialogue art was used to cut on costs because you know, the budget and everything. Though, they could afford Freddie Prinze, Jr and Jess Chobot, but oh Lord, no! We won't spend that money to have players feel as though they're directing a conversation. God forbid.

Don't you dare criticize art, Polaris! It's art!

[Lyrebon]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Sodapop VII wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Can't make a post without being a douchebag can you?  Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to. 

Pot, meet edited kettle.

Seriously you are not going to get anywhere with him. How he has not been banned is beyond me. Every topic he starts arguments due to trolling and empty, meaningless posts. Just let it go!

And all you have been doing is crying about me for about 3 days straight now.  Don't like me?  Well than just don't read my posts.  It's simple

But you clearly love making an ass of yourself. How could we deny you that opportunity?

[GreenDragon37]

VibrantYacht wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to.  ****** off

I wrote this yesterday in another thread... you didn't respond to it then. You didn't respond to my repost in this thread of someone who made a decent point (nor did you respond to the original post). No reason to expect a change, but prove me wrong.

Anyway, here's what I wrote:

You're looking at this in a... peculiar way. You seem to be assigning value based on the amount of time something lasts, not the quality of content. As someone previous to this post said, the ending is very important to any story. It can make or break the entire narrative. In this case, many people think it did the latter. When choices are nullified (as they are in the ending) the foundation of what Mass Effect is comes crumbling down, dragging the entire series with it. Mass Effect has always been based around dialogue and choice (or even, in some cases, the illusion of it), the last 10 minutes seems to try its best to bring it all down. Once it has collapsed. those who are dissatisfied look for answers and more flaws in the experience poke their head out.

Mass Effect 3's ending negates everything that came before it. That doesn't mean that ME1 or ME2 were/are bad games (in fact, ME1 remains my 2nd favorite game of all time), but when replaying you now always know, you are working your way towards something that ignores everything you are doing. This wouldn't matter if Mass Effect was a shooter or action game. However, it declared itself to be an RPG, we were promised choice, and when the ending didn't deliver the entire series gets dragged down with it. Like I said, with the foundations gone in the last 10 minutes, the Mass Effect proverbial "building" collapses.

ME3's ending, however, left me feeling absolutely empty for a few days following my seeing of it. That is certainly not a good thing. However it is a testament to what was done right. Things were done so right up to that point that I cared enough for the Mass Effect universe to be emotionally destroyed by it for a few days. 10 minutes, made over 72 hours of my life feel empty. I suppose you could consider that an accomplishment. I'm now part of those who now look at the rubble and see the flaws. I suppose you could say another accomplishment of the ending was the absolute destruction of its own universe in 10 minutes. Quite remarkable.

TL;DR: Knock out the foundations of the series in a crucial part, the whole proverbial building falls down.

You, my friend, just won this thread. <3

[AntonioA9011]

And you're basing your arguement on a bunch of people that don't highlight the majority. Seriously, this is not a matter of black and white, there are not just two sides to the debate. Even some of those that disliked the game have conflicting opinions as to why.

[/quote]


Agreed.

[KotorEffect3]

Sodapop VII wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Sodapop VII wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Can't make a post without being a douchebag can you?  Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to. 

Pot, meet edited kettle.

Seriously you are not going to get anywhere with him. How he has not been banned is beyond me. Every topic he starts arguments due to trolling and empty, meaningless posts. Just let it go!

And all you have been doing is crying about me for about 3 days straight now.  Don't like me?  Well than just don't read my posts.  It's simple

Im talking to another user to not bother getting into any meaningful discussions with a user unwilling to do it themselves. Don't like my posts? don't read them.

So in other words you are gossiping about me and slandering me.

[Lyrebon]

AntonioA9011 wrote...

Lyrebon wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Don't expect them to follow common sense.  To them 10 minutes equates 40 hours.

The investiture into the story and the characters being bombed in the last 10 minutes isn't worth feeling hugely dissapointed about?

What was the point in building up our Shepards, who was unique and intimately identifiable to each one of us, only to have their journey end with them becoming a mindless husk who accepts anything the Catalyst says. Who, in his/her final moments is not granted a heroes death because we don't have enough information to understand the consequences.

It's an insult to the literary critic in all of us.

Lyrebon, I actually disagree with this. In ME1 & ME2, I felt as though Commander Shepard was unique to me. I was building their personality and their traits, their allies and enemies even within the Normandy. In ME3, that uniqueness was snatched from me right in the beginning of ME3. I noticed my Shepard was acting out of character throughtout the entire game. It wasn't just the end of ME3 having absolutely no choice, though that's a part of it, it felt as though in ME3, the entire game my Shepard was no longer my Shepard. She/He was BioWare's Shepard.
I chalk it up to the art of Auto-Dialogue.

They still had a personality until the end (regardless of it being mine or Bioware's), that's what I was trying to get at. But your point is succinct aswel.

Modifié par Lyrebon, 16 mai 2012 - 10:33 .

[Lyrebon]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

So in other words you are gossiping about me and slandering me.

Want a tissue?