Jerrybnsn wrote...
Arrival, Awakening, whatever. I passed on it because of all the bad reviews and ended up being totally lost in the first four hours of ME3. I'm sure I'm a minority though out of the 3 million people that have played the game so far. (it has sold 3 million, right?)
ReXspec wrote...
Narrative Coherency is the main issue with the ending here: It betrays established ideals, creates a new conflict at the stories resoltuion, forces us to trust an ambiguous, if not, malevolent plot device (the catalyst, who IS either a Reaper AI, or a form of Reaper conciousness. Sauce? "I know you have thought about destroying us."<--- In game quote; it's not rocket science to figure out what he meant).
What makes it worse is the fact that the heads (Hudson and Walters) are standing by their crap of an ending and putting Bioware in a PR siege mode ever since they delivered their condescending remarks and explanations to the fan base as to what the EC would actually be.
*WARNING SPECULATION AHEAD*
If I honestly had to guess where the last ten minutes of the game went wrong, I'm perfectly willing to bet that Mac Walters and Casey Hudson (as previously stated rumors suggested) took it upon themselves to create the ending without running it through any sort of peer review process that the rest of the game supposedly went through. Why this was, I don't know. It could have been for release dates, which is the most likely answer since I really can't see the two heads up the game taking anything upon themselves accept for reasons of desperation.
And my sympathies to them, if that was the case, but based on the little quips and condescending remarks they have already given to us on various social media, I'm beginning to think they took the last section of the game upon themselves because they had some twisted vision of what the game should be as opposed to what it actually was--and they f*cked up. Big time. So, my sympathies for them are wearing thin--especially since each little statement they put out are ambiguous, at best, and insulting, at worst.
That's my two cents on why Bioware (or, at least, the two aforementioned individuals) will never apologize for screwing up: Because two men honestly believe their crap ending was justified and we are a bunch of entitled, whiny, brats who deserved to be charactered, marginalized, and ignored--or met halfway. We don't need "clarity and closure" we need things to make sense. We don't need to be talked down to about the ending, we need to communicate (publisher and fan) between each other and sort through the good feedback from the bad. It's kinda what video game companies DO for fans--especially in pre-development and post-release phases.
FatalX7.0 wrote...
Nope, they have not apologized and/or showed any sign that we can trust or believe in them.
They're being silent, but when they do say something, they're being hypocritical, contradicting and condescending.
soulprovider wrote...
if anything i'd like an apology for being treated like we don't write their pay checks, i am a consumer after all, and without us the bioware team would be out on the street
but I would love to actually pic there brains about what they were trying to accomplish with the endings, there disnissal of us is an insult to any reasonable consumer and their willingness to refuse to talk to any fan all all about what they were trying to accomplish with their work tells me that they truly hate it, but it this "art" was forced on them by someone higher up, someone with an agenda of some sort, albeit microtransactions or political agenda is uncertain but its possible that it could be both. But someone forced this on the ME3 writing staff and their unwillingness to discuss their motives about the ending are more telling than any PR statement thats been spewed out in the last two months.
feliciano2040 wrote...
FatalX7.0 wrote...
Nope, they have not apologized and/or showed any sign that we can trust or believe in them.
They're being silent, but when they do say something, they're being hypocritical, contradicting and condescending.
*Sees accusatory post*
I wonder just why exactly does Bioware keep the silence ?
ReXspec wrote...
soulprovider wrote...
if anything i'd like an apology for being treated like we don't write their pay checks, i am a consumer after all, and without us the bioware team would be out on the street
but I would love to actually pic there brains about what they were trying to accomplish with the endings, there disnissal of us is an insult to any reasonable consumer and their willingness to refuse to talk to any fan all all about what they were trying to accomplish with their work tells me that they truly hate it, but it this "art" was forced on them by someone higher up, someone with an agenda of some sort, albeit microtransactions or political agenda is uncertain but its possible that it could be both. But someone forced this on the ME3 writing staff and their unwillingness to discuss their motives about the ending are more telling than any PR statement thats been spewed out in the last two months.
The sad thing is, we will never know. At least, not from Hudson or Walters. If anything they have been saying is an indication, they view us as little more then numbers (as I previously implied) and, honestly, with the what they have been saying, the conlusion that they forced their hand in some way is looking more and more logical with each day of silence or ******-poor PR statements.
mxfox408 wrote...
What I don't understand is why the **** would you want to lose any amount of fans? That's very stupid business, if I was chairman I'd fire the PR staff, the marketing department head, and Casey Hudson.
KotorEffect3 wrote...
Your signature indicates otherwise
ReXspec wrote...
mxfox408 wrote...
What I don't understand is why the **** would you want to lose any amount of fans? That's very stupid business, if I was chairman I'd fire the PR staff, the marketing department head, and Casey Hudson.
This...
A THOUSAND TIMES THIS.
KotorEffect3 wrote...
VibrantYacht wrote...
KotorEffect3 wrote...
Saying that 10 minutes ruins 40 hours is illogical but look who I am talking to. ****** off
I wrote this yesterday in another thread... you didn't respond to it then. You didn't respond to my repost in this thread of someone who made a decent point (nor did you respond to the original post). No reason to expect a change, but prove me wrong.
Anyway, here's what I wrote:
You're looking at this in a... peculiar way. You seem to be assigning value based on the amount of time something lasts, not the quality of content. As someone previous to this post said, the ending is very important to any story. It can make or break the entire narrative. In this case, many people think it did the latter. When choices are nullified (as they are in the ending) the foundation of what Mass Effect is comes crumbling down, dragging the entire series with it. Mass Effect has always been based around dialogue and choice (or even, in some cases, the illusion of it), the last 10 minutes seems to try its best to bring it all down. Once it has collapsed. those who are dissatisfied look for answers and more flaws in the experience poke their head out.
Mass Effect 3's ending negates everything that came before it. That doesn't mean that ME1 or ME2 were/are bad games (in fact, ME1 remains my 2nd favorite game of all time), but when replaying you now always know, you are working your way towards something that ignores everything you are doing. This wouldn't matter if Mass Effect was a shooter or action game. However, it declared itself to be an RPG, we were promised choice, and when the ending didn't deliver the entire series gets dragged down with it. Like I said, with the foundations gone in the last 10 minutes, the Mass Effect proverbial "building" collapses.
ME3's ending, however, left me feeling absolutely empty for a few days following my seeing of it. That is certainly not a good thing. However it is a testament to what was done right. Things were done so right up to that point that I cared enough for the Mass Effect universe to be emotionally destroyed by it for a few days. 10 minutes, made over 72 hours of my life feel empty. I suppose you could consider that an accomplishment. I'm now part of those who now look at the rubble and see the flaws. I suppose you could say another accomplishment of the ending was the absolute destruction of its own universe in 10 minutes. Quite remarkable.
TL;DR: Knock out the foundations of the series in a crucial part, the whole proverbial building falls down.
I could see where the ending my knock the wind out of your sails I didn't even like it but you can't say that it stopped you from having fun getting there. Look either you can reconcile the ending or you can't but if you do manage to come to terms with it than all 3 games are still fun to play. I have already beaten ME 3 5 or 6 times partly because in a sense the entire game is an ending (multiple arcs are resolved through out the course of the game well before the end)
spiriticon wrote...
Lyrebon wrote...
That's not the point of the concerns at all. That's just an alternative hypothesis to a single theory that came about as a solution to retconning the end entirely.
The problem with the end is that Starbrat appears from nowhere, was never alluded to, and practically demolishes everything you ever believed about the story in those few minutes you're forced to listen to his crap.
The Reapers aren't the malevolent beings you were made to believe, but simply puppets.
We know we can't trust what he says, so why does Shepard implicitly acquiesce to these methods without questioning them or finding another solution him/herself?
It completely tears away the soul of our unique Shepards and we lose any identity with them at that point.
The Catalyst was alluded to for the whole of the game in ME3. It's not something that appeared out of nowhere. Everyone just expected it to be, well, an object rather than a confusing AI.
Again, If you know that you can't trust what it says, then Shepard would choose Destroy.
Torrible wrote...
Miphious wrote...
Nothing even close. Most of what I've seen has been making fun of the fans who dislike the ending - Twitter feeds from Bioware staff are full of condescending statements.
Please prove that or at least draw up a list of all the statements you consider condescending.
soulprovider wrote...
Jerrybnsn wrote...
Arrival, Awakening, whatever. I passed on it because of all the bad reviews and ended up being totally lost in the first four hours of ME3. I'm sure I'm a minority though out of the 3 million people that have played the game so far. (it has sold 3 million, right?)
Actualkly I played arrival and still was lost in the first 3 hours, and from what i've heard if you didn't play arrival you are still restricted to earth because of shepard working for the illusive man.
If a product doesn't do what it was advertised to do, then it is is broken.spiriticon wrote...
A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.
The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.
Here's one for you. twitter.com/#!/BioEvilChris/status/188978725637992448Miphious wrote...
Torrible wrote...
Miphious wrote...
Nothing even close. Most of what I've seen has been making fun of the fans who dislike the ending - Twitter feeds from Bioware staff are full of condescending statements.
Please prove that or at least draw up a list of all the statements you consider condescending.
All of them? Good god, do you think I just keep relevant Twitter links laying around? I'm not mining their twitter feed to 'prove' something that you could easily look through and find yourself.
There was one posting an article that gave a glowing review of Mass Effect saying "Finally, someone GETS IT" as if we're all too stupid to 'get it' because we didn't like it.
And there's been a good deal of mocking being done about how the fans demanded another ending with the ME account and some staff accounts demanding new endings to movies and even one demanding a new ending to the Bible, I believe. One wanted to know where to send the cupcakes because he didn't like the ending of 21 Jump Street but thought the rest of the movie was great.
Much mocking and condescencion to the fans who didn't like their 'artistic integrity'.
feliciano2040 wrote...
FatalX7.0 wrote...
Nope, they have not apologized and/or showed any sign that we can trust or believe in them.
They're being silent, but when they do say something, they're being hypocritical, contradicting and condescending.
*Sees accusatory post*
I wonder just why exactly does Bioware keep the silence ?
daecath wrote...
Here's one for you. twitter.com/#!/BioEvilChris/status/188978725637992448Miphious wrote...
Torrible wrote...
Miphious wrote...
Nothing even close. Most of what I've seen has been making fun of the fans who dislike the ending - Twitter feeds from Bioware staff are full of condescending statements.
Please prove that or at least draw up a list of all the statements you consider condescending.
All of them? Good god, do you think I just keep relevant Twitter links laying around? I'm not mining their twitter feed to 'prove' something that you could easily look through and find yourself.
There was one posting an article that gave a glowing review of Mass Effect saying "Finally, someone GETS IT" as if we're all too stupid to 'get it' because we didn't like it.
And there's been a good deal of mocking being done about how the fans demanded another ending with the ME account and some staff accounts demanding new endings to movies and even one demanding a new ending to the Bible, I believe. One wanted to know where to send the cupcakes because he didn't like the ending of 21 Jump Street but thought the rest of the movie was great.
Much mocking and condescencion to the fans who didn't like their 'artistic integrity'.
Modifié par ReXspec, 18 mai 2012 - 10:24 .
spiriticon wrote...
A BioWare product is only broken if the disc literally doesn't work in your drive. Then you have consumers rights to demand them to mail you a new disc.
The ending isn't something that can be considered 'broken' because many people didn't like it. I don't think a lot of people understand this.
daecath wrote...
Here's one for you. twitter.com/#!/BioEvilChris/status/188978725637992448Miphious wrote...
Torrible wrote...
Miphious wrote...
Nothing even close. Most of what I've seen has been making fun of the fans who dislike the ending - Twitter feeds from Bioware staff are full of condescending statements.
Please prove that or at least draw up a list of all the statements you consider condescending.
All of them? Good god, do you think I just keep relevant Twitter links laying around? I'm not mining their twitter feed to 'prove' something that you could easily look through and find yourself.
There was one posting an article that gave a glowing review of Mass Effect saying "Finally, someone GETS IT" as if we're all too stupid to 'get it' because we didn't like it.
And there's been a good deal of mocking being done about how the fans demanded another ending with the ME account and some staff accounts demanding new endings to movies and even one demanding a new ending to the Bible, I believe. One wanted to know where to send the cupcakes because he didn't like the ending of 21 Jump Street but thought the rest of the movie was great.
Much mocking and condescencion to the fans who didn't like their 'artistic integrity'.
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