179 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

Wulfram wrote...

They certainly shouldn't eliminate all loot from enemies. They could eliminate the inconsequential stuff though.

I like the way White Knight Chronicles does it. You kill something, it's loot gets sent to storage. Loot is kinda important in that game, you use it to create items. Once you get back to town you can sort through it and see what you need to keep or sell, nice and simple.  You still get loot, but you automate the having to sweep the battlefield and pick it up after every fight, which does get tedious after a while.

[AkiKishi]

hussey 92 wrote...

No, I disagree with this.  One of the things that made Fallout 3 great was that you weren't going to come across a safe that had 1,000 caps in it.  You had to look for loot like cigarettes and scrap metal, and sell guns you wern't using.  It involved real planning.

Not really. Unless you were playing Hardcore mode of FNV it was easy to get money just by selling the ammo of guns you were not using.
There was never a time in FO where I was thinking "if only I had more money".

[Vormaerin]

BobSmith101 wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...

No, I disagree with this.  One of the things that made Fallout 3 great was that you weren't going to come across a safe that had 1,000 caps in it.  You had to look for loot like cigarettes and scrap metal, and sell guns you wern't using.  It involved real planning.

Not really. Unless you were playing Hardcore mode of FNV it was easy to get money just by selling the ammo of guns you were not using.
There was never a time in FO where I was thinking "if only I had more money".

Actually, if anything, hardcore resulted in more money because you couldn't just carry a million pounds of ammo "just in case" so you tended to sell the extra to ditch the weight. 

Oh, and you could come across sources of 1000 caps, too.   I did a quest  involving a mother and daughter and a possible robbery scheme.  I accidentally stepped out of the house between talking to the daughter and talking to the mother.  Which caused the quest to fail for some reason and the mother tried to shoot me when I stepped back inside.    Veronica punched her into the next room.  She had 1000 caps and a bunch of gear on her.

[Vormaerin]

BobSmith101 wrote...

If you have control of the party, then the equipment needs to be able to reflect your strategy.

I'd argue it was the reverse.  You should develop a strategy to reflect the party you have.  If you don't want Anders in the party, you figure out a way to play  that compensates for not having a spirit healer rather than modding Merrill so she can be your healer.

[BBK4114]

All this argument shows is that Bioware did not increase their fanbase - they just traded one type of fan for another.

[hussey 92]

Vormaerin wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

If you have control of the party, then the equipment needs to be able to reflect your strategy.

I'd argue it was the reverse.  You should develop a strategy to reflect the party you have.  If you don't want Anders in the party, you figure out a way to play  that compensates for not having a spirit healer rather than modding Merrill so she can be your healer.

Maybe switching the weapons and armor up would be a good way to compensate. 

[FieryDove]

Vormaerin wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

If you have control of the party, then the equipment needs to be able to reflect your strategy.

I'd argue it was the reverse.  You should develop a strategy to reflect the party you have.  If you don't want Anders in the party, you figure out a way to play  that compensates for not having a spirit healer rather than modding Merrill so she can be your healer.

No, but thanks for the offer!

[hussey 92]

Vormaerin wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...

No, I disagree with this.  One of the things that made Fallout 3 great was that you weren't going to come across a safe that had 1,000 caps in it.  You had to look for loot like cigarettes and scrap metal, and sell guns you wern't using.  It involved real planning.

Not really. Unless you were playing Hardcore mode of FNV it was easy to get money just by selling the ammo of guns you were not using.
There was never a time in FO where I was thinking "if only I had more money".

Actually, if anything, hardcore resulted in more money because you couldn't just carry a million pounds of ammo "just in case" so you tended to sell the extra to ditch the weight. 

Oh, and you could come across sources of 1000 caps, too.   I did a quest  involving a mother and daughter and a possible robbery scheme.  I accidentally stepped out of the house between talking to the daughter and talking to the mother.  Which caused the quest to fail for some reason and the mother tried to shoot me when I stepped back inside.    Veronica punched her into the next room.  She had 1000 caps and a bunch of gear on her.

I tend not to sell things I need though, like .556 ammo.

I think your talking about the "someones watching over me" quest in New Vegas where the women asked you to spy on her daughter. You can loot the womens body at the end for a higher reward and negative karma.
But I don't remeber there being a lot of 1000 cap drops in Fallout 3.

Modifié par hussey 92, 24 mai 2012 - 10:21 .

[hussey 92]

/

Modifié par hussey 92, 24 mai 2012 - 10:21 .

[hussey 92]

FieryDove wrote...

Vormaerin wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

If you have control of the party, then the equipment needs to be able to reflect your strategy.

I'd argue it was the reverse.  You should develop a strategy to reflect the party you have.  If you don't want Anders in the party, you figure out a way to play  that compensates for not having a spirit healer rather than modding Merrill so she can be your healer.

No, but thanks for the offer!

nice

[Vormaerin]

hussey 92 wrote...

Vormaerin wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

If you have control of the party, then the equipment needs to be able to reflect your strategy.

I'd argue it was the reverse.  You should develop a strategy to reflect the party you have.  If you don't want Anders in the party, you figure out a way to play  that compensates for not having a spirit healer rather than modding Merrill so she can be your healer.

Maybe switching the weapons and armor up would be a good way to compensate. 

Except that's not what people really mean.  They want to change the characters' skill sets.  You can already switch weapons within the NPC's existing preferences.    What you can't do is turn Varric into a melee machine or make Fenris into a sword and board character.  They want to be able to put Isabella into heavy armor.  They want to give Merrill Spirit Healer in addition to her Blood Mage abilities.

At that point, you might as well not even have NPCs.  Just let folks have multiple PCs like in IWD.   

IMHO, if you want an archer, you take Sebastian or Varric.  You don't expect Isabella to respec to archer.

[Yrkoon]

Vormaerin wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

If you have control of the party, then the equipment needs to be able to reflect your strategy.

I'd argue it was the reverse.  You should develop a strategy to reflect the party you have.  If you don't want Anders in the party, you figure out a way to play  that compensates for not having a spirit healer rather than modding Merrill so she can be your healer.

This response  has exactly nothing to do with equipment.  No one was talking about modding. And Equipment has jack to do with whether  you want  Merril to be your healer instead of Anders, or whatever you're trying to argue.  In short, you missed the point by about 1000 miles.


Let me give you an example of what WAS being discussed.  In Origins, you gather yourself a party and head out to take on Flemeth. You can look at the equipment you've hoarded and deck your party out with the gear that will specifically assist you against a fire-breathing dragon.  This includes armor that gives its wearer fire resistance and weapons that do extra damage  vs. Dragons.

You can barely, if even at all, do such a thing in DA2, because  the game doesn't let you switch out Varric's weapon or Armor for the occasion.  You can't change Merril's robes, you can't put Fire-resistant Armor on Avaline.    It's like the Game is giving you the finger and saying:  "Hahahaha, We have forbidden you from deviating from our pre-determined script, player. Now go deal with the threat the way WE want you to! And please stop trying to mess up OUR game."

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 mai 2012 - 12:20 .

[Vormaerin]

hussey 92 wrote...

I tend not to sell things I need though, like .556 ammo.

I think your talking about the "someones watching over me" quest in New Vegas where the women asked you to spy on her daughter. You can loot the womens body at the end for a higher reward and negative karma.
But I don't remeber there being a lot of 1000 cap drops in Fallout 3.

Yeah, or you can fail the quest because you clicked on the door instead of the NPC.... 

There isn't a lot of 1000 cap drops, but there's tons of money from all the gear you can collect once you have access to the vendors in NV that can afford them.   I've never had a shortage of money for any normal purpose (including implants).  The only thing you'd have really worry about money for is the 30k unique guns.

[robertthebard]

Yrkoon wrote...

Vormaerin wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

If you have control of the party, then the equipment needs to be able to reflect your strategy.

I'd argue it was the reverse.  You should develop a strategy to reflect the party you have.  If you don't want Anders in the party, you figure out a way to play  that compensates for not having a spirit healer rather than modding Merrill so she can be your healer.

This response  has exactly nothing to do with equipment.  No one was talking about modding. And Equipment has jack to do with whether or not you want  Merril to be your healer instead of Anders.


Let me give you an example of what WAS being discussed.  In Origins, you gather yourself a party and head out to take on Flemeth. You can look at the equipment you've hoarded and deck your party out with the gear that will specifically assist you against a fire-breathing dragon.  This includes armor that gives it wearer fire resistance and weapons that do extra damage  vs. Dragons.

You can barely, if even at all, do such a thing in DA2, because  the game doesn't let you switch out Varric's weapon or Armor for the occasion.  You can't change Merril's robes, you can't put Fire-resistant Armor on Avaline.    It's like the Game is giving you the finger and saying:  "Hahahaha, We have forbidden you from deviating from our pre-determined script, player. Now go deal with the threat the way WE want you to! And please stop trying to mess up OUR game."

Except for the fact that, barring extra damage against dragons, which may be in, but I didn't find any, you can.  They added these cool armor runes, that offer resistance.  With a little shopping around, and looting, you can find upgrades to your companion's armor that add extra rune slots.  Worked just great.

[Yrkoon]

robertthebard wrote...

Except for the fact that, barring extra damage against dragons, which may be in, but I didn't find any, you can.  They added these cool armor runes, that offer resistance.  With a little shopping around, and looting, you can find upgrades to your companion's armor that add extra rune slots.  Worked just great.

Yeah, that's great....  If you want to devote  your entire game  build to  one battle.

You can't  freely swap  out runes in DA2.  You can only destroy  existing runes and then replace them with new ones.   And to that I say: No thanks.  We shouldn't have to pay gold for the right to adjust our stategies on the fly..

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 mai 2012 - 12:52 .

[Vormaerin]

Yrkoon wrote...

Let me give you an example of what WAS being discussed.  In Origins, you gather yourself a party and head out to take on Flemeth. You can look at the equipment you've hoarded and deck your party out with the gear that will specifically assist you against a fire-breathing dragon.  This includes armor that gives its wearer fire resistance and weapons that do extra damage  vs. Dragons.

So...what are you complaining about?  That seems to be being addressed in DA3 already.   You are going to be able to stick the stats of the gear, with some level of appearance change currently undetermined due to technical issues, on whomever you wish.

The people objecting to that system want either to be able to dress their characters however they want appearance wise, regardless of the NPC's normal look  Or they want to be able to customize far beyond that, so they can have their mages in full plate and whatnot.

But, yes, you are right that I conflated this specific thread with several similar ones.  Some of what I responded to was in the other customization threads and I lost track.

As far as DA2 goes, in theory you should have been able to do that customization with the Rune system.  It just wasn't robust enough to handle it.  I suspect another result of the lack of development time.  We already know they wanted to do more with companion gear, but didn't have time.

Yrkoon wrote...

You can't  freely swap  out runes in DA2.  You can only destroy  existing runes and then replace them.   And to that I say: No thanks.  We shouldn't have to pay gold for the right to adjust our stategies on the fly..

Yeah, clearly the mobs should drop it all for us so we don't have to go to the effort of converting loot to gold to stuff we want...

Modifié par Vormaerin, 25 mai 2012 - 12:49 .

[robertthebard]

Yrkoon wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Except for the fact that, barring extra damage against dragons, which may be in, but I didn't find any, you can.  They added these cool armor runes, that offer resistance.  With a little shopping around, and looting, you can find upgrades to your companion's armor that add extra rune slots.  Worked just great.

Yeah, that's great....  If you want to devote  your entire game  build to  one battle.

You can't  freely swap  out runes in DA2.  You can only destroy  existing runes and then replace them.   And to that I say: No thanks.  We shouldn't have to pay gold for the right to adjust our stategies on the fly..

I wasn't going to do anything else with it.  Once I finish the game with that protaganist, it's done.  All that gold is just going to go into cyberspace with the save files.  It's not like making gold was all that hard.  It's not all that different from hitting vendors to find gear that you didn't drop.

I'm probably the wrong guy to talk to about the way they look though.  I ran Fenris 90% of the time, and I really couldn't tell you what the end game gear looked like.  It's not that important to me, functionality is important, and I could get that out of what they had.

[Yrkoon]

Vormaerin wrote...

So...what are you complaining about?  That seems to be being addressed in DA3 already. 

^And there you have it folks.   When we find ourselves no longer able to defend the  grotesque lack of customization in DA2, we immediately change the subject and focus  on  something that may occur in a future title.

So much for your previous argument...

Vormaerin wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

You can't  freely swap  out runes in DA2.  You can only destroy  existing runes and then replace them.   And to that I say: No thanks.  We shouldn't have to pay gold for the right to adjust our stategies on the fly..

Yeah, clearly the mobs should drop it all for us so we don't have to go to the effort of converting loot to gold to stuff we want...

 Repeatedly.
 
I'm sure you prefer  this   over  being able to freely swap out runes you already bought  (like you could in the first game), without having to buy new ones every time you wish to switch up. (like you have to do in the second game) But you've yet to spit out an argument  that details why anyone should see this as  some sort of improvement to the old system.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 mai 2012 - 01:12 .

[Vormaerin]

Yrkoon wrote...

^And there you have it folks.   When we find ourselves no longer able to defend the  grotesque lack of customization in DA2, we immediately change the subject and focus  on  something that may occur in a future title.

So much for your previous argument...

Wait... this is seriously just a whine about the past?  I'm sorry.  I thought we were actually discussing the future.

Criminy, if you just want to know why it was the way it was in DA2, that's easy.   They wanted iconic looks, devised a system for it, ran out of zots, and ended up with a truncated version of what was desired.   End of thread.

Yrkoon wrote...

But you've yet to spit out an argument 
that details why anyone should see this as  some sort of improvement to
the old system.

The runes weren't effective enough to matter in DA2, but the idea of consumable buffs that let you build exactly what you want out of your armor instead of carrying twenty three different sets is entirely reasonable.

Whether they are one time purchases or need to be replaced is pretty much just a matter of how much money/resources the game has.  If money is tight, you need to keep what you spend it on.  If there's money coming out the player's ears, consumables are a fine way to use it up.

Modifié par Vormaerin, 25 mai 2012 - 01:21 .

[hussey 92]

Yrkoon wrote...

It's like the Game is giving you the finger and saying:  "Hahahaha, We have forbidden you from deviating from our pre-determined script, player. Now go deal with the threat the way WE want you to! And please stop trying to mess up OUR game."

^There is so much truth to that.

[Yrkoon]

Vormaerin wrote...

Criminy, if you just want to know why it was the way it was in DA2, that's easy.   They wanted iconic looks, devised a system for it, ran out of zots, and ended up with a truncated version of what was desired.   End of thread.

 I'd take it a step further and  argue that even their intentions were nothing more than attempts to to cut, hack and strip,  in the name of being excruciatingly economical, as opposed to creating art, or being 'innovative"..      Because Lets be blunt.  there ISN'T any purpose or benefit  to "iconic, fixed" looks beyond saving money, and time.

Name/visual recognition  (ie. Iconic poo) is pointless if the product itself is crap.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 25 mai 2012 - 01:53 .

[Vormaerin]

Yrkoon wrote...

Because Lets be blunt.  there ISN'T any purpose or benefit  to "iconic, fixed" looks beyond saving money, and time.

For you.   Lots of other people do think iconic looks are important.   People spend all kinds of time on "cosmetic" elements in MMOs and other games.   How many folks spend time here whinging because they want trousers on their mages?

I much prefer having the distinctive looks on NPCs, because it adds to the sense that they are NOT just extensions of my will.  I want personality in the NPCs and factors like appearance, fighting style, and the like are elements of that.

And I'd rather have a rune system that lets me customize the armor I have than having to store special sets for specific fights.   Because that's silly.    The high dragon you had to summon was the only example of actually fighting a dragon where the *character* knew what was coming.  And even then, you were no where near where you'd actually have stored extra gear without the "Fantasy game inventory effect".

[hussey 92]

Yrkoon wrote...

Vormaerin wrote...

Criminy, if you just want to know why it was the way it was in DA2, that's easy.   They wanted iconic looks, devised a system for it, ran out of zots, and ended up with a truncated version of what was desired.   End of thread.

 I'd take it a step further and  argue that even their intentions were nothing more than attempts to to cut, hack and strip,  in the name of being excruciatingly economical, as opposed to creating art, or being 'innovative"..      Because Lets be blunt.  there ISN'T any purpose or benefit  to "iconic, fixed" looks beyond saving money, and time.

Name/visual recognition  (ie. Iconic poo) is pointless if the product itself is crap.

exactly^  The DA2 companions had "ionic looks," but since them and the game were very forgettable, who cares.

Modifié par hussey 92, 25 mai 2012 - 02:05 .

[hussey 92]

.

Modifié par hussey 92, 25 mai 2012 - 01:59 .

[Vormaerin]

hussey 92 wrote...
exactly^  The DA2 companions had "ionic looks," but since them and the game were very forgettable, who cares.

As usual, you confuse "I didn't like it" with "it was bad."   Lots of people liked the game and liked the characters.