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[Windninja47]

 Not in real life, but do you believe that in the Dragon age games it's true? Or more specifically, what do you think is true? Did she exist? Was she magical? Is she the bride of the Maker? Does the Maker even exist?

Modifié par Windninja47, 16 mai 2012 - 06:31 .

[LolaLei]

I dare say she existed... whether it's all as fantastic as the tales claim is another matter. Does the Maker exist? Probably not.

[brushyourteeth]

That depends - true how? Do I believe Andraste existed and released the slaves? Definitely. Do I believe she was powerful? She still is - her ashes cure disease. Do I believe she knew that Maker? I don't know. I know how I feel about God IRL, but that's not the same thing at all in this fictional world where anything is possible and magic could potentially explain away anything.

And then even if you believe, there's the matter of agreeing with the Chantry, which seems to be a poor example of Andraste's ideals. They're not even good at following their own Chant ("Those who bring harm without provocation to the least of His children are hated and accursed by the Maker").

I definitely believe what the Chant says about demons and fade spirits, because Justice seems to hold the same view and he ought to know better than anyone. There are definitely darkspawn, there's definitely a Black City, and there are definitely Arch Demons. A certain Legacy character seems pretty upset that the golden city isn't golden anymore. So... yes on that score. It's the best explanation we have.

But if I lived in Thedas, would I actually bother to send my prayers to a Maker that may not exist and isn't going to listen even if he does? Probably not.

So I guess my answer is.... sort of?

[Dakota Strider]

That's a loaded question. Because I may have a very logical reason to believe one thing. And then the writer's/dev's can come along, and do a drastic retcon that makes no sense, but throws out all the old evidence. They may purposely be leaving the matter up in the air, so that they can put their finger to the wind, and make their decision about the matter of deity or not in the game.

So, stepping out on a limb, to see if it will get sawed off from under me, I say yes, Andraste existed, and obviously had a link to a higher power, that was more than just magic. Does the Chantry do everything right, in accordance to what Andraste's wishes would have been. Not very likely, but that would be because of lack of guidance, not through willful disobedience.

Or, perhaps they are receiving guidance, but just are unable to "hear it", or are listening in the wrong way. Leliana certainly thought she received guidance, and while most laughted at her, perhaps she was right. Without putting Gaider and others on sodium pentothal, we are not going to know. They are certainly putting out the "evidence" that the Maker exists, and that Andraste was linked to him. But, that may just be to pull the rug out from under everyone, when the time is right.

[bleetman]

In the sense that I figure she existed, not in the sense of her being the bride of the Maker and all that.

She just sounds like a mage to me, which would be hilariously ironic.

[deuce985]

Depends on what character I'm RPing...normally my first character isn't very nice, so no, he isn't.  My second character is usually a female and compassionate and she's a Andrastian.

My first character in DA:O defiled the Sacred Ashes and embedded the murder knife 6 inches in Brother Genetivi's skull. I didn't think he or anyone else had the right to bring pilgrims to those ashes. They held too much power. Someone easily could've took advantage of that. Some would say that's proof of Andraste and her power there. But if you take the right companion along(I think it's Oghren) he hints that the lyrium empowers the ashes. And that's DA:O writing usually goes. Just when you think you might have something to prove it...the lyrium theory jumps out.

Do I think she's real? Yea. But also have different feelings about how the Chantry tries to use it to control a weak populace. That's another discussion though.

Modifié par deuce985, 16 mai 2012 - 06:45 .

[Nanuzsh]

NO, I am an Imperialist who supports the Tevinter Imperium.


I HATE the Chantry and the Qun. And want to see them suffer.

My warden gladly desicrated the Ashes and killed Wynne. Leliana was hardened so no need to kill her.

[deuce985]

Nanuzsh wrote...

NO, I am an Imperialist who supports the Tevinter Imperium.


I HATE the Chantry and the Qun. And want to see them suffer.

My warden gladly desicrated the Ashes and killed Wynne. Leliana was hardened so no need to kill her.

If I knew more about Tevinter Imperium, I'd probably support them. But yea,  I don't like the Chantry or Templars. Not sure enough about the Qun yet. I like some codes they follow.

Chantry/Templars remind me of Christianity in the Crusades. Falsely fighting in the name of something for blood and power. Religion is the means to control the weak in Thedas. Andraste may never intended it to be like that but that's how twisted and corrupted they've become over the long years.

Hopefully we visit Tevinter Imperum. They're the greatest mystery in Thedas as far as how their society operates. They're so different from everyone else. Hopefuly we visit them in DA3 *crosses fingers*

Modifié par deuce985, 16 mai 2012 - 06:49 .

[LolaLei]

bleetman wrote...

In the sense that I figure she existed, not in the sense of her being the bride of the Maker and all that.

She just sounds like a mage to me, which would be hilariously ironic.

That would be awesome!

[MichaelStuart]

I like to believe that Andraste lied. That she made the Maker up, to make herself look more important.
I think she was just a opportunist warlord who took advantage of the fact, that the Tavinter Imperium was nearly destroyed by their own god Dumat.
As for if Andraste was a mage I don't know. Andraste is said to have destroyed armies with droughts, famines and floods, but I think that this is just natural disasters that she said she caused to make herself look divine.

[berelinde]

Some of my characters believe in Andraste, the Maker, and all the rest; others do not.

As for what I believe regarding the universe, I don't know if there's enough information to say one way or another. It's fiction. If the writers say that Andraste and the Maker are real, then they are. If the writers come back and say that it has all been an elaborate lie, then that's the truth. As long as I still have the freedom to play characters with varying levels of belief/disbelief, I'm happy.

[Sylvanpyxie]

bleetman wrote...
In the sense that I figure she existed, not in the sense of her being the bride of the Maker and all that.

Very much this. It's no stretch to believe that Andraste existed. She was a Warrior that fought for freedom and religion, there are plenty of those in Thedas. No reason to doubt it.

As for her titles of "Prophet" and "Bride of the Maker". I have my doubts. Is it possibly she was in fact guided and advised by some powerful entity? Yes. Possibly a spirit, or even a Mage.

However, i personally doubt the existence of the Maker, as the Chantry believes he exists. So i personally don't believe in her titles and "powers" as the Chantry does.

.. She just sounds like a mage to me, which would be hilariously ironic.

It's funny. One of my favourite theories on the Maker's existence is that *HE'S* a Mage.

A powerful Mage, to be sure, but still just a mage. Possibly one of the first men to communicate with the Spirits of the Fade. A wise, powerful, unstoppable, immortal little Mage.

Though, i suppose i like the theory mostly because it shines a King Arthur and Merlin the Mage feel onto the whole Andraste the Prophet of the Maker thing. Andraste, a great Warrior, advised by a wise old man to "save the people".

[cJohnOne]

I like the Chantry. I think there the good guys in the game. I don't disbeleve in andraste in the game.

[Wulfram]

My characters tend to default to being Andrastean, just because I think that's what most people who don't really think about religion all that much would. Unless they're Dalish, obviously

What do I think? I think that the world is set up so that the writers don't have to give an answer to that sort of question. Though I would say that if the Maker exists he doesn't really come off as all that nice.

[Eyeofanger]

My default warden. Cousland who performed the dr with morrigan has doubts about the maker's existence but he certainly believes in some mighty being. My default mage hawke believes that andraste was indeed a powerful mage. He also believes in the maker. He firmly believes that the chantry is twisting andraste her words and using it against mages because they fear them.

[Welsh Inferno]

I like to RP that my Cousland was brought up as an Andrastian but isn't all that sure. As the story goes on though he becomes less and less so. By the end he's pretty much an Atheist(well not strictly true. Does think there is some kind of afterlife but has no clue what), doesn't like that the Chantry is lying/making up a hella' lot. believes Andraste existed as a person, not the bride of the maker etc.

I believe she existed but that what's told of her is greatly exaggerated & I also think she was a mage. As for the Maker, no idea. BW could easily go either way with that. I don't think the dev's will actually give an 100% answer to all this though. Unless it turns out Flemeth is Andraste or something...

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 16 mai 2012 - 11:48 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Windninja47 wrote...

 Not in real life, but do you believe that in the Dragon age games it's true? Or more specifically, what do you think is true? Did she exist? Was she magical? Is she the bride of the Maker? Does the Maker even exist?

Andraste? Sure - there was most likely a charismatic and influencial woman by the name of Andraste who led a rebellion and came to be the poster child for a powerful order of faith.

The Maker? Possibly. In some fashion or capacity. "He" remains a great mystery and may be such throughout the lifespan of the franchise. I'm inclined to think that he's a catch-all - a piñata made up of other divine-type beings. He might also be a giant cheese wheel.

Was Andraste a mage, was she the Bride of the Maker, does she possibly have avatars running around Thedas now, is she just one being in a wave of reincarnations...any and all may very well be possible. I'm curious (and somewhat excited) to see if more clues or hints will be revealed in upcoming games.

[Kidd]

brushyourteeth wrote...

A certain Legacy character seems pretty upset that the golden city isn't golden anymore. So... yes on that score. It's the best explanation we have.

I always took that talk to mean the golden city was black already before the magisters got there. Ie, the Chantry was pretty much right, but not exactly. Doesn't disprove or prove anything about Andraste herself though.

[brushyourteeth]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

A certain Legacy character seems pretty upset that the golden city isn't golden anymore. So... yes on that score. It's the best explanation we have.

I always took that talk to mean the golden city was black already before the magisters got there. Ie, the Chantry was pretty much right, but not exactly. Doesn't disprove or prove anything about Andraste herself though.

You know, you're not the first person I've heard say that. I guess I just always assumed that if the Black City can be seen from anywhere in the Fade, the Golden City could too - and that's what enticed the magisters to go after it (not just Dumat's promises). Why would they ever try to take over a Golden City that was so obviously black and not gold every time they visited the Fade? I could be completely wrong though - who's to say?

If the city was always black though, that is important to the "can we trust Andraste/the Chantry?" question. Why/how was it always black? If it's not tainted and abandoned, what's actually up there?

It's really too bad that the Chantry is so skittish about Fade spirits, because being the Maker's supposed first children, any one of them could probably tell you a whole lot about Him if you just asked. Anders has doubts about the Maker - he should probably just look inside himself for those answers, because Justice may have them.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 17 mai 2012 - 12:15 .

[Kidd]

brushyourteeth wrote...

You know, you're not the first person I've heard say that. I guess I just always assumed that if the Black City can be seen from anywhere in the Fade, the Golden City could too - and that's what enticed the magisters to go after it (not just Dumat's promises). Why would they ever try to take over a Golden City that was so obviously black and not gold every time they visited the Fade? I could be completely wrong though - who's to say?

The Golden City would necessarily not be golden on the outside. What's more, even the idea of calling it the Golden City and considering it as being made out of gold are not necessarily ideas that predate the magisters entering the city. We know they sought "gold" in there, but that does not mean they expected the whole thing to be made out of gold. They sure didn't expect it to turn them into darkspawn though.

brushyourteeth wrote...

If the city was always black though, that is important to the "can we trust Andraste/the Chantry?" question.

The Chantry, yes. Andraste, no. The Chantry can be wrong in its stories, but Andraste did not write those stories on her own, I believe?

brushyourteeth wrote...

Why/how was it always black? If it's not tainted and abandoned, what's actually up there?

Oh how I hope Gaider will tell us one day >_<

brushyourteeth wrote...

It's really too bad that the Chantry is so skittish about Fade spirits, because being the Maker's supposed first children, any one of them could probably tell you a whole lot about Him if you just asked. Anders has doubts about the Maker - he should probably just look inside himself for those answers, because Justice may have them.

Do spirits have memory in the same way we do? Considering the ever changing state of the Fade and how easy it is to even forget you ever came from the material side, I'm not so sure Justice could remember anything helpful about the whole Maker thing. It would likely, at best, be a derivate memory of a derivated memory of a derivate memory. Or perhaps I'm exaggarating this =)

[robertthebard]

deuce985 wrote...

Depends on what character I'm RPing...normally my first character isn't very nice, so no, he isn't.  My second character is usually a female and compassionate and she's a Andrastian.

My first character in DA:O defiled the Sacred Ashes and embedded the murder knife 6 inches in Brother Genetivi's skull. I didn't think he or anyone else had the right to bring pilgrims to those ashes. They held too much power. Someone easily could've took advantage of that. Some would say that's proof of Andraste and her power there. But if you take the right companion along(I think it's Oghren) he hints that the lyrium empowers the ashes. And that's DA:O writing usually goes. Just when you think you might have something to prove it...the lyrium theory jumps out.

Do I think she's real? Yea. But also have different feelings about how the Chantry tries to use it to control a weak populace. That's another discussion though.

Funny that, because I played a devoted Andrastian in one play through, and hit Genitivi with the murder knife to keep him from telling the world where the ashes were, and messing up the sanctity of the place.  Some things are just better left unknown.

Bride of the Maker, I'm not sure, but she certainly was, and in some ways still is, as, as mentioned, the ashes do cure Eamon.

Modifié par robertthebard, 17 mai 2012 - 01:26 .

[Dr. wonderful]

In real life, I'm Catholic
so,,,no.

Just joking though, My Elf warden is one. He dosen't like to admit to anyone, but yeah, he is one. He thinks the Maker though is flat-out evil.

[hussey 92]

nope