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[wsandista]

I bet Andraste was a mage and the Maker is a demon.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Windninja47 wrote...

 Not in real life, but do you believe that in the Dragon age games it's true?

Depend

Windninja47 wrote..

Or more specifically, what do you think is true?

Nothing is true until it  is tested by qualified individuals, reviewed, can be re-produced and agreed by all. 

Windninja47 wrote..


Did she exist?

Yes. The Elves acknowledge her existence through their Keepers. And she was mentioned on various reccords.

Windninja47 wrote..

Was she magical?

No. There is no eyewitness account whatsoever to her magical ability or god's gifted miracle. Only speculations that cannot be verified objectively.

Windninja47 wrote..

Is she the bride of the Maker? Does the Maker even exist?

There is only one "the Maker". It the Player themselves. They create their own character and decide what their character do. They're shielded against any law that govern the others. Not only that, PC is the chosen one who always appear when they're needed the most at the right time and right place. 

And for me, I am the Maker who disguise myself as comom folk or PC. I would tell my story as I journey the world. From time to time I'll bring my hammer of toolset and change the rules according to what I see fit. After that, I'll post my story in the form of image galleries to others like  every other storytellers do. After all, the storyteller is the Maker.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 17 mai 2012 - 06:53 .

[Raydiva]

I believe Andraste existed (in game storyline wise). There is just too much proof in game (ie her ashes) to say otherwise. As for being the beloved of the Maker, not really but I do almost believe that Andraste's 'Maker' was a spirit of the fade, like Justice or the one that watched over Wynne. Perhaps like Wynne, a spirit took an interest in young Andraste but unlike Wynne, Andraste was not locked up in a tower most of her life so the spirit took a more active role. Kinda like Justice. We may have already meet Andraste's spirit guardian. That mysterious soldier guarding Andraste tomb that tested the Warden and those with him/her talked in a echoing voice much like what Anders/Justice does when they become Vengence. Maybe that guard was actually a spirit of the fade that somehow learned to survive outside of the fade or is inhabiting a new host? Be kinda funny if the Warden actually met the so-called 'Maker' and survived.

Andraste started a rebellion against the injustice of the Treventor with the help of this 'Maker.' Anders has started a rebellion against the Chantry with the help of Justice. Andraste's rebellion no doubt killed a lot of people, many of them innocent of any wrong doing. The same as what Ander's rebellion is doing. The only real difference is WHEN. It has been, I believe, centuries since Andraste was sent to the flames. More than long enough for all the darker stuff that she no doubt did faded from memory. And no doubt the surviving victors wrote history as they saw it or how they wanted it to be seen.

Even if victors/survivors of Andraste's rebellion took down her teachings accurately, the Chant has been changed and its meanings misinterpreted over the years. For example, the portions of the chant that speaks of the Elves that fought along side Andraste was actually removed. This is clearly stated in DA:O (The hungry old lady chanter and the younger one who kept trying to correct her). Then there is the whole 'Magic is meant to serve man and not enslave him' or however that line goes. I would take that as magic is nothing more than a tool, that is to be used to serve not enslave. But somehow, the Chantry took that as 'All mages must be imprisoned'. Are they even listening to the Chant?

Ok this is much longer than I expected to be...oh well. Final say as for Andraste:

1. Yes I believe she was 'real' person in the game's history.
2. I believe she was a mage.
3. I don't believe she actually meet the Maker. My vote, this 'Maker' was another spirit of the Fade.
4, As for the Chantry, its time to tear it down and start anew.

[Marko GW]

Who's to say that in couple of (in-game) centuries there will not be the same debate about Anders?

Depending on the outcome of the war between mages and templars, can he be risen to the ranks of Andraste if the mages win?

Won't his story be similar to Andraste's? I mean he was "contacted", inhabited by a deity of some kind and some would say the Maker himself got in him, contacted him etc. ...as the stories tend to be blown-out of proportion throughout time.

Andraste was some kind of a mage (arcane warrior perhaps) that has been contacted by a spirit or demon, and just like in Anders's case she was being lead by it.

The Chantry sucks since they took "Andraste's" teachings and interpreted them as it fits them.

I am pro-mage, although on couple of occasions DA2 gave me a hard time supporting them, resulting in supporting Right of Annulment in one of my playthroughs.

[Halberd96]

Well in the role playing sense I usually keep most of my characters irreligious/agnostic.

[GodWood]

Most of my characters are.

[KotorEffect3]

Yes and no. I believe in what she fought for but I hate what the Chantry has become. She fought for freedom from magical Tyranny of those that would abuse magic but that doesn't mean she would endorse the imprisonment of mages or the destruction of elven culture. The Andrastrian Chantry nations are just as tyrranical as Tevinter but just in a different way.

[Massakkolia]

Andraste was a rebel who led a religious purge throughout the land. That's something most of my characters agree on. Usually I built characters on my real life philosophy as far as it works. Thus they don't rely on institutionalized religions or feel any need to worship something just because it might exist. I do have one fervent Andrastian protagonist in both games, just for fun.

My canon warden has some respect towards Andraste because she witnessed the effect of Andraste's ashes with her own eyes. My warden sees Andraste, at the very least, as a very powerful mage. My Hawke just dislikes the Chantry trying to force-feed their lifestyle to others. That has soured her opinion on Andraste as well.

The Maker's trickier. Unlike Andraste, there really isn't any historical evidence of his existence. To me he just doesn't seem very benevolent or worshippable at all. If he exists, I bet it's better for people that he turned his back on them. His creation was done, time to move on, micromanaging is bad.

Personally, I support the demon/spirit theory. The Maker is probably not a world creator but a very powerful spiritual entity that possessed Andraste the mage or made a deal with her. In my books, that still doesn't make him worship material.

Modifié par Ria, 18 mai 2012 - 12:21 .

[leighzard]

I'm sure Andraste existed, and that she was very charismatic to build the following she did and lead a revolution. I've always been of the opinion that the whole "Bride of the Maker" thing was chicanery to give credence to her rhetoric. I doubt very much that she had any real connection to the Maker. (In fact, I lean toward there is no real Maker.) Inflaming the passion of the faithful is a great way to gain the support of the masses, and it would behoove Andraste to claim a divine connection. I mean, even the Egyptian Pharaohs claimed descent from the sun god Ra.

However, I really like PurebredCorn's possession theory. Maybe Andraste's betrayal resulted from the realization that she was, or had the potential to become, an abomination.

[BrowncoatN7]

All my characters in both games have been atheists, since I am one. Do I believe Andraste existed? Yes, but in my head she's just a powerful woman (a mage maybe?), not the "bride of the Maker". I definitely don't believe there's a Maker.

[ReallyRue]

That Andraste existed, yes. That she was the 'bride' of the Maker, I have no idea. It would depend on what the Maker is/was. If he was a powerful spirit and she a mage, then a partnership between them is entirely plausible. Though the existence of the Maker is one of the things I'd like to remain a mystery in DA. As for my characters, whether they are religious depends on each character.

My two Mahriels believe in the Creators, with one being wary of the Chantry and the other being scathing. My three dwarves vary from 'venerates the Ancestors/Paragons', to 'only venerates Paragon Aeducan', to 'doesn't give a f*ck'. My City Elf is a devout Andrastian. My Surana and Cousland are agnostic. Both my Amells are atheists, with attitudes that mirror my Mahariels.

My main Hawke is a general believer in the Maker/Andraste, etc, but over all isn't that interested/moved by it all. There's a Hawke who's so religious she married Sebastian and became a 'Sister' in the Chantry, and then there's another who despises the Chantry and is the first to applaud Anders when he you-know-what. All my other Hawkes fall somewhere in between those two.

[Crowlover]

PurebredCorn wrote...

My personal theory is that she was a mage that was possessed by a spirit. Whether that spirit was the Maker, who knows? But I think that is where the "bride of the Maker" comes from. If she was possessed by a spirit then I have to wonder with all the fighting against the tevinters and, in the end, Maferath's betrayal, what became of the spirit? Did it become warped like Justice? That's just my pet theory. I suspect the real Andraste was quite different from the Andraste in the Chantry's teachings. It's something that facinates me though and I hope we gain more insight into it in future DA games.

I always thought she was a 'good' abomination as well, and that perhaps the Maker was just a powerful spirit of some kind of virtue that possessed her.

As for my main character's belief, she doubts in the Maker's existence. The only god she has ever seen was Old and tainted.