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how should the classes be balanced out to be as good as the infiltrators?


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#51
FataliTensei

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GodlessPaladin wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...
A capable Batarian Sentinel on a team of Justicar's can outscore a Geth Inflitrator with ease, and assist the team to a much greater extent. In most players' hands, a Geth infiltrator is someone that requires revival every two seconds.

  Shockwave might be helpful on a team of 3 characters with Reave and Biotic Bubble, but the Submission Net, Blade Armor, et cetera aren't really adding to that.  You might as well just play a Human Adept and gain the extra self-sufficiency too.

If you're on xbox, I'll take my Batarian Sentinel up against your Geth Infiltrator any day to prove it.

  I happen to be on Xbox.  GT:  OneWinged4ngel.  I would be really pleasantly surprised to see a genuinely effective BS that was more than just a second string Shockwave spam.


 I want to see this:wizard:

#52
GodlessPaladin

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FataliTensei wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...
A capable Batarian Sentinel on a team of Justicar's can outscore a Geth Inflitrator with ease, and assist the team to a much greater extent. In most players' hands, a Geth infiltrator is someone that requires revival every two seconds.

  Shockwave might be helpful on a team of 3 characters with Reave and Biotic Bubble, but the Submission Net, Blade Armor, et cetera aren't really adding to that.  You might as well just play a Human Adept and gain the extra self-sufficiency too.

If you're on xbox, I'll take my Batarian Sentinel up against your Geth Infiltrator any day to prove it.

  I happen to be on Xbox.  GT:  OneWinged4ngel.  I would be really pleasantly surprised to see a genuinely effective BS that was more than just a second string Shockwave spam.


 I want to see this:wizard:


I can record it if Snakes actually shows up.

#53
FataliTensei

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GodlessPaladin wrote...

FataliTensei wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...
A capable Batarian Sentinel on a team of Justicar's can outscore a Geth Inflitrator with ease, and assist the team to a much greater extent. In most players' hands, a Geth infiltrator is someone that requires revival every two seconds.

  Shockwave might be helpful on a team of 3 characters with Reave and Biotic Bubble, but the Submission Net, Blade Armor, et cetera aren't really adding to that.  You might as well just play a Human Adept and gain the extra self-sufficiency too.

If you're on xbox, I'll take my Batarian Sentinel up against your Geth Infiltrator any day to prove it.

  I happen to be on Xbox.  GT:  OneWinged4ngel.  I would be really pleasantly surprised to see a genuinely effective BS that was more than just a second string Shockwave spam.


 I want to see this:wizard:


I can record it if Snakes actually shows up.


Please do, if he's going to make such bold claims I'd like to see him back it up.

#54
IndigoVitare

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Infiltrators aren't good because they're necessarily overpowered, they're good because while they're cloaked allies are taking all the fire, as a result can't return any, leaving everything for the Infiltrator. They're handy for those 4 data console objectives and reviving players, but apart from that infiltrators can (though certainly not always) actually be detrimental to the overall health of the team. The player they may be constantly reviving might be dying because they're taking all the enemy fire while the Infiltrator just sits in cloak and fires the odd power-shot.

This can't really be solved since it's a big part of Tactical Cloak. What there needs to be instead are better ways for other classes to benefit the team rather than the self, while still increasing player score.

Anyway, I'll just run the list of general buffs I think there needs to be.

Biotic Bubble should block instant kills.

Blade Armour should return 100% (then more from the upgrade) of melee damage. It should also effect instant kills, effectively bringing down whatever brought the user down simultaniously.

If you're in the middle of a heavy melee, even if you get synced to the enemy unit the attack should continue and strike the target, potentially stunning them and freeing you from the instant kill.

[I don't like instant kills]

Pull should stick to targets, slowing shielded units down and initiating biotic combos on all enemies.

Singularity should detonate if a biotic power passes, or hits, in its area of influence, not if something in its hold is hit. So, if a shielded Marauder walks through a Singularity, if a warp is fired at it, the singularity still detonates. It can also, therefore, be detonated even if nothing is nearby.

As an aside, I'd really like to see some "classic" ME1 Vanguards. Forget this Biotic Charge stuff, let's see a combination of Biotic and Soldier abilities, like it's supposed to be.

#55
landylan

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i agree with being able to melee without getting instakilled,indigo. also, molecularman said to nerf the TC cooldown and that would definitely put them on even ground and encourage them to stay with the team more

#56
R0Gun13

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FataliTensei wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...
A capable Batarian Sentinel on a team of Justicar's can outscore a Geth Inflitrator with ease, and assist the team to a much greater extent. In most players' hands, a Geth infiltrator is someone that requires revival every two seconds.

  Shockwave might be helpful on a team of 3 characters with Reave and Biotic Bubble, but the Submission Net, Blade Armor, et cetera aren't really adding to that.  You might as well just play a Human Adept and gain the extra self-sufficiency too.

If you're on xbox, I'll take my Batarian Sentinel up against your Geth Infiltrator any day to prove it.

  I happen to be on Xbox.  GT:  OneWinged4ngel.  I would be really pleasantly surprised to see a genuinely effective BS that was more than just a second string Shockwave spam.


 I want to see this:wizard:


+ 1 ...pretty please record that show, although something tells me the 'BS' wont show up <_< 

The buff I'd most like to see is the Krogan stunlock v's Geth, to me the Krogan should be more resistant to staggers, instead they are more vulnerable that other races.

How the Krogan Vanguard handles staggers should apply to all Krogans.

Modifié par R0Gun13, 17 mai 2012 - 07:22 .


#57
GodlessPaladin

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How does the Krogan Vanguard handle staggers? I haven't spent much time with the class due to protesting the dysfunctional rage.

#58
NucularPikinic

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Methanoid666 wrote...

if infiltrators were that awesome everyone would use one, and we dont.

just because someone rocks an infiltrator doesnt mean they automatically land 100% headshots all day long, some people do *gasp* miss.

Actually, the most efficient way to kill things as an infiltrator is to use a shotgun (Claymore being the best). On Gold of course. Other difficulties, anything works, really. Except the Eagle.

#59
R0Gun13

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GodlessPaladin wrote...

How does the Krogan Vanguard handle staggers? I haven't spent much time with the class due to protesting the dysfunctional rage.


Krogan Vanguard has a far lower chance to stagger, I'm not sure of the percentage chance (or the force needed) but it does not happen much, so much so that it takes me by surprise when I am staggered as a Kroguard.

In fact, geth are by far the easiest enemy for Kroguard, because no instakills it means your fairly invincible

Modifié par R0Gun13, 17 mai 2012 - 07:27 .


#60
holdenagincourt

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Three changes.

One has already been mentioned; that is, increase the cooldown of Tactical Cloak. As it is most any infiltrator can exit and reenter TC within seconds regardless of loadout.

Two, when an infiltrator fells an enemy with a shot, power or melee executed from TC and uncloaks, the aggression of all enemies in a 5 meter radius from the fallen enemy should be redirected toward the infiltrator at a 100% increase for a baseline of 5 seconds, higher for more intelligent units like Marauders, Phantoms and Geth Hunters. They could be dislodged from their cover/perches by grenades, melee units and forward pressure units and their allies would get some breathing room from the aggro they constantly offload onto them. More suppressing fire coming toward them would make picking off enemies more difficult. This synchronizes with the increase in TC cooldown.

Three, the damage bonus when firing from TC should be slightly nerfed. Not much is necessary--even a 10 or 15 percent decrease would level things a bit. The TC weapon damage bonus reaches ridiculous heights on most infiltrator builds, especially GI (though he has melee, which would be even more risky than it is now due to changes in aggro patterns I put forward in #2).

Okay, that's what I have. Personally, I like playing as an infiltrator and my first Shepard was one, but I think they should suffer a little more from spamming TC, as it is easily the best power in the game.

#61
Fisterbear

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staindgrey wrote...

Is Infiltrator even really the best class? I'd argue Adepts are superior with maxed out biotic explosion perks. If I'm faced with a horde of banshees and brutes, I'd rather be a good adept than a good infiltrator.


I'd agree with this unless the infiltrator is geth. Then all bets are off in a wave of ridiculously overpowered plasma.

#62
Malordus

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I rarely play any other class besides Infiltrator. It just suits my playstyle and I tend to do better than with the other classes(although I can equal my Inf. scores with my Vanguard).
I play regularly, across bronze, silver ang gold, and I will say that I see just as many of the other classes as I do the infiltrators...and the number of bad ones outweigh the good by some margin.
I see just as many of the other classes scoring really high as I do Infiltrators...just depends on the group composition and the individual player's skill.

#63
GodlessPaladin

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R0Gun13 wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

How does the Krogan Vanguard handle staggers? I haven't spent much time with the class due to protesting the dysfunctional rage.


Krogan Vanguard has a far lower chance to stagger, I'm not sure of the percentage chance (or the force needed) but it does not happen much, so much so that it takes me by surprise when I am staggered as a Kroguard.

In fact, geth are by far the easiest enemy for Kroguard, because no instakills it means your fairly invincible


Interesting.  But yeah, something should really be done about stagger vs Geth for the non-rolling types.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 17 mai 2012 - 08:05 .


#64
Xx_Belzak_xX

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Unnecessary. Unless Infiltrators have suddenly picked up the ability to perform biotic explosions, summon turrets and droids, and use biotic charge, when I wasn't looking.....

#65
No Snakes Alive

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I'm super down to show up. You got two Justicar friends to bring with you?

And to answer your other question about the class, Blade Armor provides the extra durability you need to effectively get in optimal range for Shockwave.

And BTW, before this turns into some sort of pseudo-deathmatch, I didn't issue it as a challenge to show you up. I offered to show you Batarian Sentinels are incredibly effective and supportive on the right team, often times even more so than an Infiltrator is. So people need to calm down with the pay-per-view fight attitudes lol.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 17 mai 2012 - 08:09 .


#66
GodlessPaladin

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No Snakes Alive wrote...

I'm super down to show up. You got two Justicar friends to bring with you?

  I'm afraid I can't pull competent Justicar-favoring friends out of my hat on a moment's notice.   Then again, I don't remember that being a part of the challenge...

Regardless, I'm willing to accept the terms of having two Asari Justicars on the team too.  Any volunteers to play that role?

No Snakes Alive wrote...
And BTW, before this turns into some
sort of pseudo-deathmatch, I didn't issue it as a challenge to show you
up. I offered to show you Batarian Sentinels are incredibly effective
and supportive on the right team, often times even more so than an
Infiltrator is. So people need to calm down with the pay-per-view fight
attitudes lol.


I know.  I didn't take it otherwise.  Like I said, I would be happy to see the Batarian Sentinel prove to be something other than a second string Shockwave spammer.  I am, however, skeptical.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 17 mai 2012 - 08:15 .


#67
Malordus

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holdenagincourt wrote...

Three changes.

One has already been mentioned; that is, increase the cooldown of Tactical Cloak. As it is most any infiltrator can exit and reenter TC within seconds regardless of loadout.

Two, when an infiltrator fells an enemy with a shot, power or melee executed from TC and uncloaks, the aggression of all enemies in a 5 meter radius from the fallen enemy should be redirected toward the infiltrator at a 100% increase for a baseline of 5 seconds, higher for more intelligent units like Marauders, Phantoms and Geth Hunters. They could be dislodged from their cover/perches by grenades, melee units and forward pressure units and their allies would get some breathing room from the aggro they constantly offload onto them. More suppressing fire coming toward them would make picking off enemies more difficult. This synchronizes with the increase in TC cooldown.

Three, the damage bonus when firing from TC should be slightly nerfed. Not much is necessary--even a 10 or 15 percent decrease would level things a bit. The TC weapon damage bonus reaches ridiculous heights on most infiltrator builds, especially GI (though he has melee, which would be even more risky than it is now due to changes in aggro patterns I put forward in #2).

Okay, that's what I have. Personally, I like playing as an infiltrator and my first Shepard was one, but I think they should suffer a little more from spamming TC, as it is easily the best power in the game.


I will stop you on your second point instantly. You must realise that if an Inf picked up the aggro from every enemy in 5 meters after every clean kill, that the remainder of the team will be spending an awful amount of time reviving him/her?
I can accept dropping a few times in a match, sure...but possibly dying several times per wave? A step too far, methinks.

#68
heybigmoney

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Remove usage of powers while cloaked unless you have the bonus power 6 evolution making it more akin to adrenaline rush. Also remove the 2 sec window of increased damage while coming out of cloak. Only 1 shot should receive the bonus.

With this in place, you could completely remove shield gating from the game without having snipers be op.

#69
Methanoid666

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heybigmoney wrote...

Remove usage of powers while cloaked unless you have the bonus power 6 evolution making it more akin to adrenaline rush. Also remove the 2 sec window of increased damage while coming out of cloak. Only 1 shot should receive the bonus.

With this in place, you could completely remove shield gating from the game without having snipers be op.


the 2 sec thing is probably there by design incase of lag, cant think of any other reason other than by accident/another bug.

#70
upinya slayin

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geth infiltrator melee is crazy. we ran through a silver in 16 minutes with 3 geth infiltrator meeleing. we all have 15 melee medal and 3 kill streaks before wave 4

#71
No Snakes Alive

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GodlessPaladin wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

I'm super down to show up. You got two Justicar friends to bring with you?

  I'm afraid I can't pull competent Justicar-favoring friends out of my hat on a moment's notice.   Then again, I don't remember that being a part of the challenge...


Perhaps you should check what I wrote again then and not twist it into some 1 vs. 1 high-score challenge?

I basically suggested that a Batarian Sentinel can bring more to the table than an Infiltrator, with the right team, and then offered to prove that claim to you on XBL. I'm still very willing to.

#72
GodlessPaladin

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No Snakes Alive wrote...
Perhaps you should check what I wrote again then and not twist it into some 1 vs. 1 high-score challenge?

  I did... and it wasn't clear that two asari justicar friends on the team was necessary for your demonstration when you said "I'll take my Batarian Sentinel up against your Geth Infiltrator any day to prove it."  I also don't see what the issue is, since I accepted the clarified terms anyways.  It's not a big deal.  Nor did I twist anything.  I find THAT statement very offensive.  I have been nothing but forthright and courteous.  >: (

How the heck do you get off twisting

  I happen to be on Xbox.  GT:  OneWinged4ngel.  I would be really
pleasantly surprised to see a genuinely effective BS that was more than
just a second string Shockwave spam.

  into "twisting your words into some 1 vs 1 high score challenge"?

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 17 mai 2012 - 08:33 .


#73
Maria Caliban

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What I'd like to see is a max damage threshold on shields so that rapid fire weapons would take them down faster than a sniper shot does.

#74
GodlessPaladin

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Maria Caliban wrote...

What I'd like to see is a max damage threshold on shields so that rapid fire weapons would take them down faster than a sniper shot does.


That is essentially what a Shield Gate is, actually.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 17 mai 2012 - 08:24 .


#75
heybigmoney

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Methanoid666 wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

Remove usage of powers while cloaked unless you have the bonus power 6 evolution making it more akin to adrenaline rush. Also remove the 2 sec window of increased damage while coming out of cloak. Only 1 shot should receive the bonus.

With this in place, you could completely remove shield gating from the game without having snipers be op.


the 2 sec thing is probably there by design incase of lag, cant think of any other reason other than by accident/another bug.


Bah.  Well there goes that idea.