193 réponses à ce sujet

[GGW KillerTiger]

 By stop pretending the infiltrator is better when it is actually the player him/herself

[Phazael]

Infiltrators are fine (speaking as someone who almost never plays one), its the borked scoring system and you idiots who think it means anything that are the problem. The score is biased towards high damage kill shots, so anyone with a sniper rifle gets a huge share of the score, even if they just gank the last sliver of health off of something with their BW, especially when boosted by TC. There are really only two balance issues that truely exist with Infiltrators in the game:

1) Soldiers on Gold-
Stuff on Gold hits so hard that even the hardiest of characters (aka Kroguard with Barrior and Rage stacking DR to 80%) cannot hope to survive exposed fire for longer than a second or two and even if they could there are tons of high percentage OHKO moves the enemy tends to have. This more or less sticks Soldiers as being pure shooters, where they will obviously be underperforming compared to Infiltrators who are doing the same thing. Best solution here would be to boost the survivability of Soldiers (hopefully without making them immortal on Silver) or buff the living hell out of Assault rifles (and more SMGs) so that there are weapons that work well for just them, without benefitting from TC.

2) Tactical Cloak makes Cature Mission tivial on Gold-
This is probably the harder issue. People generally want to win gold with as little risk as they can. Good groups can potentially do captures without an infiltrator, but they might wipe just as easily. Having an infiltrator makes it close to a sure thing, assuming any competance on the player's parts. This pretty much makes most people consider having one on Gold a mandatory thing, which is bad news for game balance as it pertains to the other classes. I am not sure there is a good way to fix this without making TC nothing more than a damage gimmick, but making the capture waves less difficult on Gold so that a descent team can run and gun it (without it being a huge wipe potential) might be the better approach.

Outside those two narrow issues, Infiltrators are fine.

[landylan]

ill play the justicar

[Maria Caliban]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

What I'd like to see is a max damage threshold on shields so that rapid fire weapons would take them down faster than a sniper shot does.

That is essentially what a Shield Gate is, actually.

I know, but I'd like something more aggressive. Equipped with a Widow, I still kill shielded targets faster than someone with an assault rifle, despite them having to expose themselves to enemy fire for longer.

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

 By stop pretending the infiltrator is better when it is actually the player him/herself

I'm not a good player by any means and consistently do better than other players with the SI.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 17 mai 2012 - 08:32 .

[R0Gun13]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

I'm super down to show up. You got two Justicar friends to bring with you?

  I'm afraid I can't pull competent Justicar-favoring friends out of my hat on a moment's notice.   Then again, I don't remember that being a part of the challenge...

Perhaps you should check what I wrote again then and not twist it into some 1 vs. 1 high-score challenge?

I basically suggested that a Batarian Sentinel can bring more to the table than an Infiltrator, with the right team, and then offered to prove that claim to you on XBL. I'm still very willing to.

You kinda did say that... <_<

No Snakes Alive wrote...

They already are balanced out. You're confusing quality with ease of use. It's easier to kick ass with an Infiltrator but I guarantee I'll kick at least as much with anything from a Human Soldier to a Krogan Sentinel.

No Snakes Alive wrote...

A capable Batarian Sentinel on a team of Justicar's can outscore a Geth Inflitrator with ease, and assist the team to a much greater extent. In most players' hands, a Geth infiltrator is someone that requires revival every two seconds.

The point of this game is to survive and kill all your enemies, and sure some classes excel at either or both of those more than others but any class can get it done extremely well. If you're on xbox, I'll take my Batarian Sentinel up against your Geth Infiltrator any day to prove it. 

  

[No Snakes Alive]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...
Perhaps you should check what I wrote again then and not twist it into some 1 vs. 1 high-score challenge?

  I did... and it wasn't clear that two asari justicars on the team was a part of the challenge.  I also don't see what the issue is, since I accepted the new terms anyways.  It's not a big deal.  Nor did I twist anything.  I find THAT statement offensive.  I have been nothing but forthright and courteous.  >: (

Lol well then my apologies; didn't mean to antagonize, and looks like miscommunications abound here.

I'm not trying to make a big deal of anything either. I'd love to play cooperatively and hopefully show you what some of the lesser-loved classes are capable of, all in good fun, of course. I've given up the likes of Geth Infiltrators and Asari Adepts for some more under-appreciated Krogan and Batarian Sentinels and so on lately, and I've been having a lot of fun and holding my own too, so I'm down for whatever. As long as I contribute, I feel I've proven my point.

Hell, I played as a Human Soldier for the first time in a Silver yesterday and broke 100k without us even milking the objective waves. How many people say that class blows? All I know is that with the tight build and playstyle, a lot of these classes that allegedly don't hold a candle to the beloved Salarian Infitrator actually do.

So if you're leaning towards competition instead of cooperation, it's not what I originally intended, but hell, I'll throw a Krogan Sentinel up against your Infiltrator and see where I stand lol. Gotta give the underdog some good odds though. lol

[GodlessPaladin]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

They already are balanced
out. You're confusing quality with ease of use. It's easier to kick ass
with an Infiltrator but I guarantee I'll kick at least as much with
anything from a Human Soldier to a Krogan Sentinel.

No Snakes Alive wrote...

A
capable Batarian Sentinel on a team of Justicar's can outscore a Geth
Inflitrator with ease, and assist the team to a much greater extent. In
most players' hands, a Geth infiltrator is someone that requires revival
every two seconds.

The point of this game is to survive and kill
all your enemies, and sure some classes excel at either or both of
those more than others but any class can get it done extremely well. If
you're on xbox, I'll take my Batarian Sentinel up against your Geth
Infiltrator any day to prove it. 

 

No Snakes Alive wrote... As long as I contribute, I feel I've proven my point.

  In order to prove your point, you would have to demonstrate that a Batarian Sentinel on a team of Asari Justicars can "outscore a Geth Infiltrator with ease" and "assist the team to a greater extent."  "As long as I contribute" is not a fair criteria for rendering that statement falsifiable.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 17 mai 2012 - 08:45 .

[No Snakes Alive]

R0Gun13 wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

I'm super down to show up. You got two Justicar friends to bring with you?

  I'm afraid I can't pull competent Justicar-favoring friends out of my hat on a moment's notice.   Then again, I don't remember that being a part of the challenge...

Perhaps you should check what I wrote again then and not twist it into some 1 vs. 1 high-score challenge?

I basically suggested that a Batarian Sentinel can bring more to the table than an Infiltrator, with the right team, and then offered to prove that claim to you on XBL. I'm still very willing to.

You kinda did say that... <_<

No Snakes Alive wrote...

They already are balanced out. You're confusing quality with ease of use. It's easier to kick ass with an Infiltrator but I guarantee I'll kick at least as much with anything from a Human Soldier to a Krogan Sentinel.

No Snakes Alive wrote...

A capable Batarian Sentinel on a team of Justicar's can outscore a Geth Inflitrator with ease, and assist the team to a much greater extent. In most players' hands, a Geth infiltrator is someone that requires revival every two seconds.

The point of this game is to survive and kill all your enemies, and sure some classes excel at either or both of those more than others but any class can get it done extremely well. If you're on xbox, I'll take my Batarian Sentinel up against your Geth Infiltrator any day to prove it. 

  

Does everyone lack basic reading comprehension skills here or what?

So what exactly was I referring to when I said I'd put my Batarian Sentinel up against his Infiltratot to prove it. To prove what? That's right, reread wht you just quoted and follow along: "A capable Batarian Sentinel ****on a team of Justicar's**** can outscore a Geth Inflitrator with ease, and assist the team to a much greater extent" and "any class can get it done extremely well."

Am I missing something here or are you?

[A Wild Snorlax]

I like how no snakes alive backed down and retracted what he first said the moment someone actually tok up his challenge.

I'll play justicar by the way if you need one, and I'll probably outscore the batarian sentinel.

[GodlessPaladin]

No Snakes Alive wrote...
Am I missing something here or are you?

He's saying that you made it out to be a score challenge.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 17 mai 2012 - 08:48 .

[landylan]

dude you said you would outscore them with the justicars...youre gonna have justicars he didnt miss anything

Modifié par landylan, 17 mai 2012 - 08:49 .

[Ramsutin]

You should stop complaining about inf. in general. GI with Javelin X totally rocks and is OPed but what good is having more than 1 GI in a team? If playing against reapers you will take damage and you will die. So what if you have TC? Often it's so bugged that everyone will shoot at you. You should't nerf infiltrators, you should buff few abilities of other classes and races. And it's total BS to say that this game doesn't have teamplay. Get a f*cking team and stop whining. I play this for fun and don't care if I finish 1st or 3rd. As long as WE win. There is no ME (no pun intended) in this game.

[Yajuu Omoi]

The answer is SIMPLE find someone who can use the class effectivly, i've been out scored by MANY a player while i'm a Sal. Infil on BRONZE...i was lvl 20, against a lvl 19 Krogan Sent. we were neck and neck for all 10 rounds, till extraction i had the range to get the kills.

[GodlessPaladin]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

The answer is SIMPLE find someone who can use the class effectivly, i've been out scored by MANY a player while i'm a Sal. Infil on BRONZE...i was lvl 20, against a lvl 19 Krogan Sent. we were neck and neck for all 10 rounds, till extraction i had the range to get the kills.

Okay, but that's not actually terribly relevant to a balance discussion.  Foregoing absurd extreme cases like "it literally automatically wins at the push of a single button," it would be rather difficult to imagine a character that would always outperform a different character in a different person's hands, regardless of who those two people were.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 17 mai 2012 - 08:54 .

[Yajuu Omoi]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

The answer is SIMPLE find someone who can use the class effectivly, i've been out scored by MANY a player while i'm a Sal. Infil on BRONZE...i was lvl 20, against a lvl 19 Krogan Sent. we were neck and neck for all 10 rounds, till extraction i had the range to get the kills.

Okay, but that's not actually terribly relevant to a balance discussion.  Foregoing absurd extreme cases like "it literally automatically wins at the push of a single button," it would be rather difficult to imagine a character that would always outperform a different character in a different person's hands, regardless of who those two people were.

True, i see what you're saying.
I just thing that its more the ease of use than the power of the class. infils are typically easy to use, but then again, hard to perfect. ya know what i mean?

[landylan]

Ramsutin wrote...

You should stop complaining about inf. in general. GI with Javelin X totally rocks and is OPed but what good is having more than 1 GI in a team? If playing against reapers you will take damage and you will die. So what if you have TC? Often it's so bugged that everyone will shoot at you. You should't nerf infiltrators, you should buff few abilities of other classes and races. And it's total BS to say that this game doesn't have teamplay. Get a f*cking team and stop whining. I play this for fun and don't care if I finish 1st or 3rd. As long as WE win. There is no ME (no pun intended) in this game.

chill? cloak isnt bugged. when you cloak in front of their faces they just keep shooting at you and they will shoot at the position you were last standing. if you cloak and move away from cover youll occasionally notice them shooting at that position still. a gi with a javelin ten isnt that amazing either. most players on higher difficulties arent even using snipers when i play...oh yea and if you run in the middle of a big group  while cloaked they will see you too. definitely not bugged. intentional

[GodlessPaladin]

Anyways, Snorlax and Snakes, get online and we'll have our match, with two Justicars.

[No Snakes Alive]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

I like how no snakes alive backed down and retracted what he first said the moment someone actually tok up his challenge.

I'll play justicar by the way if you need one, and I'll probably outscore the batarian sentinel.

I didn't retract anything, but it's nice to see you're still butthurt days later lmao. In fact, I actually accepted the challenge immediately and he tried to back down from the fact that I said the Batarian could bring more to the table ON A TEAM OF CAPABLE BIOTICS

And speaking of, I'd prefer a team of CAPABLE Biotics, thank you very much, so since I consider you to be as garbage at this game as it gets, no thanks brah.

But hey, even if you DID outscore me because I detonated everything you threw out you'd be proving one of my points.

[Maria Caliban]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

The answer is SIMPLE find someone who can use the class effectivly, i've been out scored by MANY a player while i'm a Sal. Infil on BRONZE...i was lvl 20, against a lvl 19 Krogan Sent. we were neck and neck for all 10 rounds, till extraction i had the range to get the kills.

When enemies have small HP pools, no shield gate, and little damage reduction on armor, other classes can out score an infiltrator just by being aggressive.

[Ramsutin]

landylan wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

You should stop complaining about inf. in general. GI with Javelin X totally rocks and is OPed but what good is having more than 1 GI in a team? If playing against reapers you will take damage and you will die. So what if you have TC? Often it's so bugged that everyone will shoot at you. You should't nerf infiltrators, you should buff few abilities of other classes and races. And it's total BS to say that this game doesn't have teamplay. Get a f*cking team and stop whining. I play this for fun and don't care if I finish 1st or 3rd. As long as WE win. There is no ME (no pun intended) in this game.

chill? cloak isnt bugged. when you cloak in front of their faces they just keep shooting at you and they will shoot at the position you were last standing. if you cloak and move away from cover youll occasionally notice them shooting at that position still. a gi with a javelin ten isnt that amazing either. most players on higher difficulties arent even using snipers when i play...oh yea and if you run in the middle of a big group  while cloaked they will see you too. definitely not bugged. intentional

I know all what you stated. But I've ran into situations where I cloak, move far away and still get shot and the "i-am-cloacked-but-not" sort of bug happens often. If it isn't for you then good for you. And yes, GI with GPS or Javelin is OP but that doesn't make them all OPed. And chill too bro, just because you are good with Inf doesn't make it overpowered.

[Ares Caesar]

Too much has been said about infiltrators already, however I'll admit when playing with a BAD infiltrator it actually sucks for the rest of the team.

If a bad player uses an infiltrator and doesnt 1) Deal high DPS to boss/armored targets, 2) Revive teammates, 3) Cap objectives, you then simply end up with someone who is constantly aggro dumping on the rest of the team, while offering nothing that a heavy caster class couldnt have done while not screwing the team with all the aggro dumping (might as well just $#*7 on you while they're at it).

The Infiltrator class can make it easier for the person playing it, but makes it harder for the rest of the team if they suck.

[landylan]

Ramsutin wrote...

landylan wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

You should stop complaining about inf. in general. GI with Javelin X totally rocks and is OPed but what good is having more than 1 GI in a team? If playing against reapers you will take damage and you will die. So what if you have TC? Often it's so bugged that everyone will shoot at you. You should't nerf infiltrators, you should buff few abilities of other classes and races. And it's total BS to say that this game doesn't have teamplay. Get a f*cking team and stop whining. I play this for fun and don't care if I finish 1st or 3rd. As long as WE win. There is no ME (no pun intended) in this game.

chill? cloak isnt bugged. when you cloak in front of their faces they just keep shooting at you and they will shoot at the position you were last standing. if you cloak and move away from cover youll occasionally notice them shooting at that position still. a gi with a javelin ten isnt that amazing either. most players on higher difficulties arent even using snipers when i play...oh yea and if you run in the middle of a big group  while cloaked they will see you too. definitely not bugged. intentional

I know all what you stated. But I've ran into situations where I cloak, move far away and still get shot and the "i-am-cloacked-but-not" sort of bug happens often. If it isn't for you then good for you. And yes, GI with GPS or Javelin is OP but that doesn't make them all OPed. And chill too bro, just because you are good with Inf doesn't make it overpowered.

i wasnt impressed with the gps infil...im not sure if you can even completely charge the gun and get the dmg bonus so its just as good on all the other classes in my opinion. also, the gps is prolly what causes the bug you are talking about. some wierd stuff was happening to me the one time i used it

[Maria Caliban]

I'll agree that a bad infiltrator is worse than a bad vanguard. The vanguard will at least grab a ton of enemies before dying.

[GodlessPaladin]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

I like how no snakes alive backed down and retracted what he first said the moment someone actually tok up his challenge.

I'll play justicar by the way if you need one, and I'll probably outscore the batarian sentinel.

I didn't retract anything, but it's nice to see you're still butthurt days later lmao. In fact, I actually accepted the challenge immediately and he tried to back down from the fact that I said the Batarian could bring more to the table ON A TEAM OF CAPABLE BIOTICS

And speaking of, I'd prefer a team of CAPABLE Biotics, thank you very much, so since I consider you to be as garbage at this game as it gets, no thanks brah.

But hey, even if you DID outscore me because I detonated everything you threw out you'd be proving one of my points.

So are you coming or what?  I need your GT.  We're waiting in a room for you right now.

No Snakes Alive wrote...
I didn't retract anything, but it's
nice to see you're still butthurt days later lmao. In fact, I actually
accepted the challenge immediately and he tried to back down from the
fact that I said the Batarian could bring more to the table ON A TEAM OF
CAPABLE BIOTICS

  You are a liar, sir.  It is plain for everyone to see that I said "Oh, I didn't know you wanted me to grab two Asari Justicar friends, but sure, I'm down for that.  Who wants to play the Justicars?"  And then got you two Justicars.  And I am currently waiting for you in a room with those Justicars.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 17 mai 2012 - 09:22 .

[gauntz]

My five cents as a n00b with less than 10 gold games under my belt:

- Infiltrator's TC should get a minor damage nerf and possibly have weight actually matter in some way so that weight factors in on the choice between say Black Widow and Valiant
- Infiltrators and possibly other classes should have a passive skill that lets them by pass an percentage of the shield gate, making Kishok, Widow and Javelin more competitive with Black Widow and Valiant.
- The Tech Armor variants should, in terms of optional evolutions, offer the choice between actually giving really significant damage reduction/other bonuses, or be a minor boost with no cooldown penalty. Fortification and Barbed Armor should make you immune to Sync. Kills.
- Soldiers should have superior passive bonuses than other classes, at least in terms of weight capacity and possibly weapon damage.
- Vanguards, whether through a change of the Weapon Synergy Charge evolution or passives, should have the option of being better weapon users. As of right now they (especially the Human Vanguard) are pretty much "casters" compared to the Infiltrator and Soldier.