220 réponses à ce sujet

[No Snakes Alive]

someN7orother wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Just as a heads up for all those that are quoting Mrs Norman:

I don't make a habit of taking post-facto explanations at face value.

No reason not to take it at face value. They could have simply remained silent on the matter, but IIRC Christina not only stated it was a design feature, but she also made a nod to SSF2T where frame cancelling played a huge role past a certain skill threshold.

The mechanic doesn't punish those who don't do it, and it rewards skill for those who can apply it properly. Plus, how hard would it be to make reload animations un-cancellable if they actually wanted to?

Exactly! And those complaining about not being able to use the medigel button on console to do it are missing the entire point. That's more akin to complaining about the placement of keys on a keyboard versus buttons on a controller than complaining about differently-functioning game features. It's about being able to press any action button mid-combat to cancel your reload animation early: that functions the same on both PC and console. Nobody on console in their right mind would use down on the dpad even if we could. It makes no sense.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 17 mai 2012 - 11:18 .

[No Snakes Alive]

Prawny wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Wow lmao. NO. You could not possibly be more wrong.

It would take developers two seconds to eliminate it if it wasn't intended. It's designed into the game, not the opposite: to difficult to design out. And whatever issue you've got about animations makes no sense. The whole point to it is to be able to shoot immediately, mid-animation, just like it has been in every major shooter for how many years now.

And the funny thing is, if you reload cancel but don't shoot you actually do lower your weapon into ready mode, so what the hell are you even talking about? What extra animations? The reload animation is complete already and this allows you to cancel that early, not begin a whole 'nother animation. That would defeat the purpose.

This thread is detroying my brain cells.

Please L2code before commenting about it.

Firing mid-animation ends the current animation... duh. It's called error-handling.

Of course your character will put the gun back to the usual position. The reload animation was initiated, so no matter how it happens, it goes back there.

More animations WOULD need to be added, if the reload was split up into stages (like some suggested earlier in the thread). Starting the current single, complete reload animation at a certain timeframes would just get too buggy.

Please L2design before commenting about it.

There would be absolutely no reason whatsoever to split the current animation into stages. That's completely irrelevant. Only one shooter I know of decided to incorporate error handling as an actual gameplay mechanic with different animations of guns jamming for failed reloads and the like. Most simply allow you to cancel the single reload animation with another action. We're talking a lot of shooters over a lot of years. Versus one.

So again, it's in by design and intended, whether you like it or not. I'll side with the developers and the history of FPS games over one butthurt poster in a forum, thank you.

[uzivatel]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Is the activation button for tactical cloak in an ABSURDLY inconvenient location on a console gamepad? Maybe the reason they didn't allow for medigel canceling on consoles is that it would take either a mutant with a mangled claw for a hand or a complete moron to think attempting it would be more convenient than the options we already have?

Do you think about what you post first at all? Down on the d-pad? Seriously? No thanks, I'll stick to A. Complaining about that is like complaining about the advantage PC gamers have in aiming with a mouse and keyboard. It's RIDICULOUS. And the sad part is there are people such as myself who are able to reload cancel incredibly consistently on console, but rather than learn how and practice that, some people prefer to whine about the injustices of console vs PC gaming.

Since the tactical cloak behaves consistently across all three platforms, there is one less reason to think its an exploit.

The medigel button is easy to access on both consoles as the distance the thumbs have to move is about the same as the distance to main power button mapped on Y. Given the difference of the stick layout, its particularly easy on the PS3 as the Down button is placed symetrically to your favourite A.

[GGW KillerTiger]

I say get em all banned! It's a bug/glitch in the game being used for them to gain an upper hand in score against their teammates and therefor is considered cheating.

Well that is what I would say if I was a epeen based player.

Honestly I don't give a crap. I don't reload cancel. The players that do why bother trying to stop them? Let them complete that reload faster by like 1/2 a second. Woopty due ....

[BobFettle]

It's a power gaming technique. You have to time it right and do it with everything else happening. I sometimes do it but most of the time it's more effort than fun. No problem with me if someone else wants to use it.

[your-friendly-noggin]

Honestly it seems like the OP only created this thread to find and attack people who use this technique. It took about 5 minutes for them to start getting angry at everyone who disagreed with them. I was going to try and have a good discussion until I saw that awful attitude.

[No Snakes Alive]

uzivatel wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Is the activation button for tactical cloak in an ABSURDLY inconvenient location on a console gamepad? Maybe the reason they didn't allow for medigel canceling on consoles is that it would take either a mutant with a mangled claw for a hand or a complete moron to think attempting it would be more convenient than the options we already have?

Do you think about what you post first at all? Down on the d-pad? Seriously? No thanks, I'll stick to A. Complaining about that is like complaining about the advantage PC gamers have in aiming with a mouse and keyboard. It's RIDICULOUS. And the sad part is there are people such as myself who are able to reload cancel incredibly consistently on console, but rather than learn how and practice that, some people prefer to whine about the injustices of console vs PC gaming.

Since the tactical cloak behaves consistently across all three platforms, there is one less reason to think its an exploit.

The medigel button is easy to access on both consoles as the distance the thumbs have to move is about the same as the distance to main power button mapped on Y. Given the difference of the stick layout, its particularly easy on the PS3 as the Down button is placed symetrically to your favourite A.

Lmaoooo you just won't let it go. I give up then. You win. You keep on seeking vengeance against the grave injustice Bioware has committed against console players, and I'll keep reload canceling as easily on console as I would on PC. Deal?

[Prawny]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Please L2design before commenting about it.

There would be absolutely no reason whatsoever to split the current animation into stages. That's completely irrelevant. Only one shooter I know of decided to incorporate error handling as an actual gameplay mechanic with different animations of guns jamming for failed reloads and the like. Most simply allow you to cancel the single reload animation with another action. We're talking a lot of shooters over a lot of years. Versus one.

So again, it's in by design and intended, whether you like it or not. I'll side with the developers and the history of FPS games over one butthurt poster in a forum, thank you.

As I said, someone else suggested reload stages as a fix for reload cancelling. Hopefully the emphasis will ensure you read it this time?

If this was implemented, a single animation wouldn't be ideal, as I said previously (don't make me get the formatting tags out again!), starting it halfway through could cause all sorts of dodgy effects.

On a final note, no one likes an e-thug, No Snakes Alive. There's no need to throw around preconceptive, inaccurate and down right lame insults at people, due to the simple fact that they don't agree with your opinion.

[Influ]

Please stop the pointless bickering. It's not going to be "fixed", because it's in there intentionally. This has been proven on several occasions. It has been in since ME2 and how complicated do you really think it would have been to make the reloads actually happen when the animation finishes? They didn't change it because it's working as intended. Whether you like the mechanic or not is inconsequential.

Arguing against facts with opinions is retarded.

[Sun Tzglyph]

SinerAthin wrote...

Without reloading cancelling, quite a lot of weapons would become quite... underpowered.

Widow and Claymore in particular.

I play gold effortlessly (in team, not solo though), with any infiltrator and a widow X, without ever using reload canceling, wich i never bothered to learn since i was already doing more than ok when i learned it existed.
But i very much understand the appeal with a claymore, where you have to be so much closer to your enemies to use...

[Chief Commander]

Huh. So that´s why some Infiltrators were shooting pretty fast with one shot weapons.. lol never heard of this "exploit" until now.

[uzivatel]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Lmaoooo you just won't let it go. I give up then. You win. You keep on seeking vengeance against the grave injustice Bioware has committed against console players, and I'll keep reload canceling as easily on console as I would on PC. Deal?

No, I am in the "animation cancelling is stupid and dated" crowd. All I was saying is that the lack of consistency could make the "feature" be perceived as something that is in fact not intended (unlike the tactical cloak).

[AshirahTSparkle]

Personally, I use it all the time. But it does feel... cheap?? Because I do it on my Widow and Black Widow, the cancelled makes it that I don't **** back the bolt after loading the clip. It's like you didn't pull the bolt back on a real-life bolt action rifle. Kind of kills the immersion for me. But i still use it...yeahh...

[No Snakes Alive]

Prawny wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Please L2design before commenting about it.

There would be absolutely no reason whatsoever to split the current animation into stages. That's completely irrelevant. Only one shooter I know of decided to incorporate error handling as an actual gameplay mechanic with different animations of guns jamming for failed reloads and the like. Most simply allow you to cancel the single reload animation with another action. We're talking a lot of shooters over a lot of years. Versus one.

So again, it's in by design and intended, whether you like it or not. I'll side with the developers and the history of FPS games over one butthurt poster in a forum, thank you.

As I said, someone else suggested reload stages as a fix for reload cancelling. Hopefully the emphasis will ensure you read it this time?

If this was implemented, a single animation wouldn't be ideal, as I said previously (don't make me get the formatting tags out again!), starting it halfway through could cause all sorts of dodgy effects.

On a final note, no one likes an e-thug, No Snakes Alive. There's no need to throw around preconceptive, inaccurate and down right lame insults at people, due to the simple fact that they don't agree with your opinion.

Nobody likes a whiner, either, and as everyone else is also trying to tell you (unsuccessfully, of course, because you're just that stubborn), you're arguing against fact with opinion. All I've been trying to say is that reload canceling is an intentional mechanic, and is a readily available resource on both console and PC.

All you've done is bicker, retract statements, attempt to save face, and call me names. It's getting pathetic. You even quoted someone's irrelevant suggestion about reload animation stages in one of your many unsuccessful argument attempts and then now just tried to act like I failed to read that it was someone else's suggestion. Then why bring it up in the first place?

Again, once and for all, reload canceling is as intentional in this game as it is in th many other FPS games in which it appears, and it can be performed on both console and PC. These aren't opinions I'm bullying the forums with. They're facts unless you think the game developers would lie about something this insignificant, in which case, like I said before, I feel really bad for you.

You can accept the facts and move on with your life or continue to act like you're being bullied by myself, PC gamers, reload canceling in general, Bioware and everyone else. I think it's time to grow up and just accept that it's a feature you can utilize if you'd like or ignore if you don't, and stop acting so childish about it all. Have a great day.

[Tortugueta]

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

Personally, I use it all the time. But it does feel... cheap?? Because I do it on my Widow and Black Widow, the cancelled makes it that I don't **** back the bolt after loading the clip. It's like you didn't pull the bolt back on a real-life bolt action rifle. Kind of kills the immersion for me. But i still use it...yeahh...

Exactly my opinion. I use it with the claymore because it's part of the mechanics and therefore avoiding it doesn't make much sense, but it does feel cheap. And I don't care how intentional it is or how many other shooters use it, it's just lame and I would rather do away with it. And using it to draw a line between noobs and self-proclaimed "power users" is even lamer.

However, the original question was if this is an exploit or not. Well, if someone in Bioware says it's an intentional part of the mechanics I think there's not much to argue about. It's not an exploit.

[Yumi50]

Wesus wrote...

Devs admitted its a game mechanic.

[xtorma]

rtizz6446 wrote...

molecularman wrote...

Something like actively cutting your reload time with medi-gel canceling seems like exploiting to me :/

Thank you! Someone who actually takes an objective look at the situation. Everyone else has just said "Its not a glitch because I use it and im awesome."

It's not a glitch because the devs said it's not, and they use it themselves. If you don't want to use it, and gimp your dps because you think it's cheap...fine. Thats on you.

[No Snakes Alive]

Tortugueta wrote...

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

Personally, I use it all the time. But it does feel... cheap?? Because I do it on my Widow and Black Widow, the cancelled makes it that I don't **** back the bolt after loading the clip. It's like you didn't pull the bolt back on a real-life bolt action rifle. Kind of kills the immersion for me. But i still use it...yeahh...

Exactly my opinion. I use it with the claymore because it's part of the mechanics and therefore avoiding it doesn't make much sense, but it does feel cheap. And I don't care how intentional it is or how many other shooters use it, it's just lame and I would rather do away with it. And using it to draw a line between noobs and self-proclaimed "power users" is even lamer.

However, the original question was if this is an exploit or not. Well, if someone in Bioware says it's an intentional part of the mechanics I think there's not much to argue about. It's not an exploit.

These are opinions I can completely respect. Presented logically, sans attitude, not accusatory or inflammatory in any way. Thanks, guys.

I do, however, respectfully disagree. I think that reload canceling requires enough active concentration due to the detriment that mistiming it in the heat of battle poses to make it feel less cheap to me. I don't think it straddles some sort of imaginary line between pro and noob, but it IS a slightly more advanced technique than simply not utilizing it, and its advantages are noticeable/significant but not game-breaking.

So whether it's cheap or not is debatable but I think it's safe to say at at this point that only a hardcore troll would continue to argue it's some unintentional exploit.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 17 mai 2012 - 01:02 .

[akula51]

To me, it's like being 13 again, and getting to third base before all of your other buddies...but then having to admit it was with one of your second cousins. No, thanks. I'll wait.

I don't really use single-shot-reload-me-again-now-again-now-again weapons, so it doesn't matter all that much to me that I don't intentionally use it I guess.

Exploit? Nope. Cheap, and "gamey"? Not a strong enough word, IMO.

[SoulRebel_1979]

I get along fine without it, but I don't really care if someone else wants to use it.

[Prawny]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Nobody likes a whiner, either, and as everyone else is also trying to tell you (unsuccessfully, of course, because you're just that stubborn), you're arguing against fact with opinion. All I've been trying to say is that reload canceling is an intentional mechanic, and is a readily available resource on both console and PC.

All you've done is bicker, retract statements, attempt to save face, and call me names. It's getting pathetic. You even quoted someone's irrelevant suggestion about reload animation stages in one of your many unsuccessful argument attempts and then now just tried to act like I failed to read that it was someone else's suggestion. Then why bring it up in the first place?

Again, once and for all, reload canceling is as intentional in this game as it is in th many other FPS games in which it appears, and it can be performed on both console and PC. These aren't opinions I'm bullying the forums with. They're facts unless you think the game developers would lie about something this insignificant, in which case, like I said before, I feel really bad for you.

You can accept the facts and move on with your life or continue to act like you're being bullied by myself, PC gamers, reload canceling in general, Bioware and everyone else. I think it's time to grow up and just accept that it's a feature you can utilize if you'd like or ignore if you don't, and stop acting so childish about it all. Have a great day.

If you don't like to be called names, why call others names in the first place? Don't give if you can't take.

Since when was I whining? If stating an my thoughts and opinions (which also happens to be the function of a forum) on a forum is whining, then we're all whining.

How is someone's suggestion irrelevant? It was about reload cancelling, on a reload cancelling thread. There's your "only my opinion counts" attitude again.

The middle two paragraphs are just complete BS coming from you. You've shot yourself in the foot there, you hyprocrite.

I doubt reload cancelling is purposefully implemented into the game. It's just exactly what the thread title says, but a minor, unharmful one at that. I just stated my thoughts as to why it exists.

And yes, you have been bullying people on here, not just me either.
"This thread is detroying my brain cells."

This opinion isn't just me either:
"@No Snakes Alive
Please stop being a jerk to everyone who comments on this forum.Thank you.
"

Go find something productive to do.

[John123453242]

What is this medi gel canceling? Are people using medi gels to reload faster? That is pretty stupid if so.

[No Snakes Alive]

akula51 wrote...

To me, it's like being 13 again, and getting to third base before all of your other buddies...but then having to admit it was with one of your second cousins. No, thanks. I'll wait.

I don't really use single-shot-reload-me-again-now-again-now-again weapons, so it doesn't matter all that much to me that I don't intentionally use it I guess.

Exploit? Nope. Cheap, and "gamey"? Not a strong enough word, IMO.

LOL WUT?!

I've never seen a weirder, more out-of-place analogy before in my life. How are you comparing reloading your gun more rapidly via a gameplay technique to oral sex with a 2nd cousin? Lmao.

The way I see it is, an elite soldier would be able to reload a weapon more quickly than your average soldier via practice of the technique. This mechanic allows you to effectively replicate that in game. Some may find it cheap, and to each his own.

And then some may liken it to cousin sex lol.

[akula51]

John123453242 wrote...

What is this medi gel canceling? Are people using medi gels to reload faster? That is pretty stupid if so.

No, they're purposefully hitting the medigel button ("7" in default location on the PeeCee) when they're still very much alive, thus cancelling part or most of the reload animation from their weapons.  It's been confirmed that it's part of the game and not technically a bug somewhere by some developer (who also admitted that BW staff uses it).  

Since you're not dead, you don't consume a medigel.

I think you're up to speed now...

Modifié par akula51, 17 mai 2012 - 01:46 .