220 réponses à ce sujet

[AdamWeith]

Me hates it! HATES IT!!!

Ugly exploit, it should be deleted from the game!!!
along with all quarians

[akula51]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

akula51 wrote...

To me, it's like being 13 again, and getting to third base before all of your other buddies...but then having to admit it was with one of your second cousins. No, thanks. I'll wait.

I don't really use single-shot-reload-me-again-now-again-now-again weapons, so it doesn't matter all that much to me that I don't intentionally use it I guess.

Exploit? Nope. Cheap, and "gamey"? Not a strong enough word, IMO.

LOL WUT?!

I've never seen a weirder, more out-of-place analogy before in my life. How are you comparing reloading your gun more rapidly via a gameplay technique to oral sex with a 2nd cousin? Lmao.

The way I see it is, an elite soldier would be able to reload a weapon more quickly than your average soldier via practice of the technique. This mechanic allows you to effectively replicate that in game. Some may find it cheap, and to each his own.

And then some may liken it to cousin sex lol.

Live more...lol.  Life is full of such conundrums.

You can certainly use that Rationalization-X biotic chip or Justification-X weapon mod or whatever, and say it makes you feel more elite - or that it's a benefit of being elite...but come on - you're intentionally pressing a button that has nothing to do with reloading a weapon, and having it cancel half or more of your reload animation.

That's just...well, "neat".

[Prawny]

920103db wrote...

Pure essence of win.

[Tortugueta]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Tortugueta wrote...

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

Personally, I use it all the time. But it does feel... cheap?? Because I do it on my Widow and Black Widow, the cancelled makes it that I don't **** back the bolt after loading the clip. It's like you didn't pull the bolt back on a real-life bolt action rifle. Kind of kills the immersion for me. But i still use it...yeahh...

Exactly my opinion. I use it with the claymore because it's part of the mechanics and therefore avoiding it doesn't make much sense, but it does feel cheap. And I don't care how intentional it is or how many other shooters use it, it's just lame and I would rather do away with it. And using it to draw a line between noobs and self-proclaimed "power users" is even lamer.

However, the original question was if this is an exploit or not. Well, if someone in Bioware says it's an intentional part of the mechanics I think there's not much to argue about. It's not an exploit.

These are opinions I can completely respect. Presented logically, sans attitude, not accusatory or inflammatory in any way. Thanks, guys.

I do, however, respectfully disagree. I think that reload canceling requires enough active concentration due to the detriment that mistiming it in the heat of battle poses to make it feel less cheap to me. I don't think it straddles some sort of imaginary line between pro and noob, but it IS a slightly more advanced technique than simply not utilizing it, and its advantages are noticeable/significant but not game-breaking.

So whether it's cheap or not is debatable but I think it's safe to say at at this point that only a hardcore troll would continue to argue it's some unintentional exploit.

The problem, as I see it, is that the technique does not relate to something that would actually happen in the game. Let me illustrate this with two examples (one of them admittedly far fetched).

On the "yes, good" side we have dodging. If you press space at the correct moment you will dodge a rocket, for instance. So here you are relating a correctly timed press of a key with a movement of your character that will allow you to avoid damage.

On the "no, bad" side we would have the following: you get a weapon damage bonus if you play the game upside down, as in you hang yourself from your feet and play upside down. Now, how do you relate this to the game? So, you play upside down and your weapons get magically better? What kind of sense does it make? Well it's kind of the same with the reload: if you remap you medigel to "Q" and press it at the right moment your reload time is magically shorter, like your weapons do not need pumping anymore?

It kind of kills immersion to some extent, that's why I don't like it. If they want to reward skill there are many ways to do it (like the dodging mechanic, or the weapon recoil or accuracy).

Now, as I said, like it or not this is in the game and in my opinion it does not make much sense to actively avoid it, but of course everybody is free to play as they like.

[Sun Tzglyph]

I have yet to see any post or message from a dev stating that this was intentional. I've seen a post stating some of them use it, that they have no intention to remove it, but all evidence in my opinion points to the fact that they didn't decide at some point of the ME2 programming "Hey, let's include a trick so you can reload faster, like, let's say, if you are skilled you just have to eject the empty clip, and the new one will magically appear locked in place !!".
The fact that this is an exploit the devs like doesn't change the fact that this is an exploit. It their intent was to have a possibility for a skilled player to make the reload time faster, they would have programmed it so doing the correct manipulation triggers a different animation showing how this fast reload is made. Not this reality-breaking/immersion-breaking trick.

[staindgrey]

Not all game mechanics are intentional. Labeling anything "not intended" as automatically an exploit to be abused isn't right, though. It's freely available for anyone to use, and PC gamers can't even compete with console gamers. I fail to see an issue.

There are far bigger concerns with MP balancing than "hey I can make my reload shorter". Hell, reload cancelling just adds another flavor to the game to keep you from feeling stagnant. You're active even while reloading, timing it just right and firing again as quickly as possible. It's like active reloading in Gears, or manually reloading in RE5. This is a good thing.

[Rick__D]

Just call it biotic reloading and let it go.

[Kel Riever]

First of all, it isn't getting fixed. Or if it does, I'd be shocked. So this thread is really a vent thread, it seems.

Second, there should be no reload cancel from the point of programming. It doesn't make sense that if you start loading your gun, then run, you are loaded. Damn silly. I don't purposely use it for that reason, but I'm not going to get bent out of shape over what is a basic programming flaw. Those who use it, it really isn't their fault either. It just shouldn't exist and it isn't the players fault it is there.

[Lionel Ou]

fabsmilee wrote...

I have yet to see any post or message from a dev stating that this was intentional.

http://social.biowar...40984/5#4854994

99% of players will have no interest in the reload trick, it's a very
advanced feature, that is only useful with certain playstyles and
weapons.

What more do you want?

[spawn of apathy]

I cannot say I have an issue, only because the game isn't competitive. However it is entirely possible that somebody from Bioware said it was intentional, simply because they have no intention of fixing it, and no way to ban for it.

Otherwise it just seems odd that in a game where they are consistently re-balancing they would have an intended exploit that increases the firing rate of the most powerful weapons in the game.

Modifié par spawn of apathy, 17 mai 2012 - 02:40 .

[No Snakes Alive]

fabsmilee wrote...

I have yet to see any post or message from a dev stating that this was intentional. I've seen a post stating some of them use it, that they have no intention to remove it, but all evidence in my opinion points to the fact that they didn't decide at some point of the ME2 programming "Hey, let's include a trick so you can reload faster, like, let's say, if you are skilled you just have to eject the empty clip, and the new one will magically appear locked in place !!".
The fact that this is an exploit the devs like doesn't change the fact that this is an exploit. It their intent was to have a possibility for a skilled player to make the reload time faster, they would have programmed it so doing the correct manipulation triggers a different animation showing how this fast reload is made. Not this reality-breaking/immersion-breaking trick.

First of all, if you'd do your research a little better, you'd find that Christine said she's aware it's in the game because she intentionally put it in the game. So there's that.

As for your other point, that others have also made in one way or another, about magically reloading and pushing buttons that have nothing to do with reloading to skip half the animation and all that... it's been a feature of shooters for years, in this very same manner. Bioware decided to include it in theirs too. That's all there is to it.

They had better things to focus their time on than making it as prominent a feature of the gameplay as Gears. Plus, adding another animation would eliminate the purpose of being able to instantly shoot again. If you're trying to rationalize the in-game concept with the actions you're performing on your controller and having a hard time you're just trying too hard. I think too many people are reading into this mechanic waaaayyyy too deeply.

Cut your lengthy reload animations short by pressing a button with correct timing and improve your gameplay, or don't do that. That's really all there is to it.

[uzivatel]

scyphozoa wrote...

oh lawd

Damn, you edited the post...

[No Snakes Alive]

spawn of apathy wrote...

I cannot say I have an issue, only because the game isn't competitive. However it is entirely possible that somebody from Bioware said it was intentional, simply because they have no intention of fixing it, and no way to ban for it.

Otherwise it just seems odd that in a game where they are consistently re-balancing they would have an intended exploit that increases the firing rate of the most powerful weapons in the game.

Every major shooter since at least Halo 2 has had this "exploit" which has been stated multiple times in this thread. I guess developers must have started getting real lazy this past decade.

BxR seriously doesn't ring a bell with anyone?

[killacwalka3]

It's not just for big guns, it increase the continuous fire of weaker weapons too. I try to cancel anything that has a longer reload, regardless of how powerful it is. I time my power cycle so I can hit a power in the reload and maintain fire.

The tactic actually makes you more vulnerable, because if you go too early you won't reload. The mechanic is designed so that there is a point in the animation where you can go evasive (jump, roll, or climb depending on game and context) and still get the benefit of the reload, while going early stops the reload.

Some games have active reloads, some stop the reloads, some continue through some actions, but most use the same mechanic that allows reload cancelling.

Modifié par killacwalka3, 17 mai 2012 - 02:58 .

[uzivatel]

scyphozoa wrote...

Yeah man, I just don't even care enough to comment. If people want to bicker, that is their business.

On the plus side I learned a new English word - udder. 

[Skorpijon]

You know what would be really funny?

In the army, the officer looks to a private:
What the hell.... STOP EXPLOITING ALREADY. We said that the standard time for a reload is 0.87 sec you CAN NOT DO IT FASTER!!!! Check your brothers in arms and look how butthurt they are now!
.....
Yes Sir! Sorry, Sir! I will hold back, Sir!

Modifié par Skorpijon, 17 mai 2012 - 03:06 .

[Enhanced]

Lionel Ou wrote...

fabsmilee wrote...

I have yet to see any post or message from a dev stating that this was intentional.

http://social.biowar...40984/5#4854994

99% of players will have no interest in the reload trick, it's a very
advanced feature, that is only useful with certain playstyles and
weapons.

What more do you want?

Is there a more recent post from Bioware, like one that was posted after ME3 was released?

Modifié par Enhanced, 17 mai 2012 - 03:06 .

[LoboFH]

Yes, it's an exploit, therefore I don't use it.

[Skorpijon]

Enhanced wrote...

........ some quoted stuff here

Is there a more recent post from Bioware, like one that was posted after ME3 was released?

Yes there is. And the BW girl is reffering to the post quoted in that pile of quotes. Since you are interested in it, you find it.

[Sun Tzglyph]

OK, i'll just agree on this. Many programmers include cheats/tricks in their games on purpose, with the choice left to players to use them or not. It is in fact, an interesting cheat/trick , because it actually needs a small amount of added skill in order to work. As far as I, in my own and personal way to approach and enjoy gaming, am concerned; I choose not to use this intended cheat/trick because it comes at the cost of breaking immersion, wich is clearly, and unquestionnably visible on my screen when said cheat/trick is used. I will not use a feature that allows my gun to fire without it being loaded and set, as I clearly and unquestionnably see it on my screen (intended/on purpose repetition, not a bug).
So this is my opinion and choice, mine only, and my answer to the OP, to come back to the thread.

To resolve this question once and for all though, Bioware should just answer this question : When balancing multiplayer weapons, do they, or do they not factor in the reload trick as a standard feature.

[rtizz6446]

@No Snakes Alive
Halo 2 does not seem like a good game to reference because it came out on the original Xbox where glitches were much more common. I saw the posts by Christina and that validates it for me that Bioware is OK with reload cancelling which makes it OK with me I guess. While I still will deny the fact that it was intended, I am willing to concede.

On the basis of reload cancelling being an intended game mechanic, why would it not be more well known to average player. Seems a little funky to me still.

[Skorpijon]

LoboFH wrote...

Yes, it's an exploit, therefore I don't use it.

Sorry for all the spam posts but, i am at work just ending stuff to go home so ill reply more then usual


Yeah i bet neandertals also said something similair about the use of spear/fire/etc...

[rtizz6446]

fabsmilee wrote...

OK, i'll just agree on this. Many programmers include cheats/tricks in their games on purpose, with the choice left to players to use them or not. It is in fact, an interesting cheat/trick , because it actually needs a small amount of added skill in order to work. As far as I, in my own and personal way to approach and enjoy gaming, am concerned; I choose not to use this intended cheat/trick because it comes at the cost of breaking immersion, wich is clearly, and unquestionnably visible on my screen when said cheat/trick is used. I will not use a feature that allows my gun to fire without it being loaded and set, as I clearly and unquestionnably see it on my screen (intended/on purpose repetition, not a bug).
So this is my opinion and choice, mine only, and my answer to the OP, to come back to the thread.

To resolve this question once and for all though, Bioware should just answer this question : When balancing multiplayer weapons, do they, or do they not factor in the reload trick as a standard feature.

Interesting...I didnt really think about that. I feel that if it is a well known game mechanic to bioware then they should factor it in when balancing weapons.