220 réponses à ce sujet

[Skorpijon]

astheoceansblue wrote...

..... some quotes.....

Fair enough.

Try dropping the superior attitude about it. You're not better because you avoid these things, you know?

I would argue that actually he performs worse the others. In quake there was the thing called strafe jump (and run and whatnot). I wonder if he avoided that aswell. Cause if he did, he never could play multiplayer since he would be in for a major asswooping.

But this is coop and as i said before , play with it or without, but dont call it an exploit and dont look down on others, that use an implemented mechanic as it should be used, maxing their performance, just because it does not compute with your percieved reality in a fantasy worls.

Directed at the guy astheocenblue quoted.

Modifié par Skorpijon, 19 mai 2012 - 08:04 .

[Megachaz]

LoboFH wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...

Right, you'll play ignoring a very cool feature that adds depth and rhythm based on some petty realism argument in a sci-fi game that is anything but.

Yep, those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

I have avoided actively a myriad of exploits in my videogames career: bunnyhopping, dolphin diving, quick scoping and now "reload cancelling", I want to act like a real fighter, it is my business, if you don't mind.

So you avoid using advanced techniques for the sake of realism?  Do you only use basic kicks and punches in fighting games too?

[incinerator950]

Megachaz wrote...

LoboFH wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...

Right, you'll play ignoring a very cool feature that adds depth and rhythm based on some petty realism argument in a sci-fi game that is anything but.

Yep, those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

I have avoided actively a myriad of exploits in my videogames career: bunnyhopping, dolphin diving, quick scoping and now "reload cancelling", I want to act like a real fighter, it is my business, if you don't mind.

So you avoid using advanced techniques for the sake of realism?  Do you only use basic kicks and punches in fighting games too?

Advanced moves in fighting games don't require you to cancel out a previous action with a second one.  If you did that, people would kick you out of the room for it.  It's an exploit, just like it was in ME 2, just like it was in Golden Eye and several other shooters. 

There are mechanics in the game that do it for you (AR) and then there is forcing the game to cancel it out, which is a bypass. 

[john-in-france]

Ok this one works on both platforms, I've seen it on Widows, Saber and Claymore. As usual timing is everything, just run a step forward once the bullet is in the breach of the gun (number shows in load section) This cancels the rest of the animation for everyone.

[Megachaz]

incinerator950 wrote...

Megachaz wrote...

LoboFH wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...

Right, you'll play ignoring a very cool feature that adds depth and rhythm based on some petty realism argument in a sci-fi game that is anything but.

Yep, those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

I have avoided actively a myriad of exploits in my videogames career: bunnyhopping, dolphin diving, quick scoping and now "reload cancelling", I want to act like a real fighter, it is my business, if you don't mind.

So you avoid using advanced techniques for the sake of realism?  Do you only use basic kicks and punches in fighting games too?

Advanced moves in fighting games don't require you to cancel out a previous action with a second one.  If you did that, people would kick you out of the room for it.  It's an exploit, just like it was in ME 2, just like it was in Golden Eye and several other shooters. 

There are mechanics in the game that do it for you (AR) and then there is forcing the game to cancel it out, which is a bypass. 

I'm talking more about the gigantic blasts of energy and such that can be launched from fighters hands in lots of fighting games.  Not very realistic.  This fellow says he wants to act like a "real fighter."  Oh and there's a dev from the ME2 team giving advice to people on how to reload cancel quoted in this thread.  So it's clearly not an exploit in this series.

Also, as far as I know, animation cancelling is used in fighting games.

[someN7orother]

incinerator950 wrote...
Advanced moves in fighting games don't require you to cancel out a previous action with a second one.  If you did that, people would kick you out of the room for it.

Err, no. Play more fighting games plz.

 

[filetemo]

reload cancel is also tricky, hit the button at the wrong time and you are left with an empty gun, therefore having to start the reload animation again, it can work both ways, so no, it's not an exploit.

[Core_Commander]

Reload cancel to a move/ability is like cancelling moves into other moves in fighting games. At least this much was confirmed to be legit back in ME2.

Cancel to medi-gel... I'd say it's pretty damn cheap. Cancel-into-nothing while keeping all the benefits is somewhat unprecedented as a "gaming feature" and usually the mark of exploiting a bug. Wouldn't mind seeing it go, regardless of how useful it is.

Modifié par Core_Commander, 19 mai 2012 - 09:54 .

[Huttj509]

Part of the issue to me is that the effectiveness varies wildly with different weapons. If a weapon loads the ammo early, but then has further animation built into the reload time, you can remove the bulk of the reload time. If the actual reload happens later in the animation, you don't shorten it as much. If all weapons had the reload happen at the same relative point in their animation, I'd consider it MUCH less sketchy.

[astheoceansblue]

incinerator950 wrote...

Megachaz wrote...

LoboFH wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...

Right, you'll play ignoring a very cool feature that adds depth and rhythm based on some petty realism argument in a sci-fi game that is anything but.

Yep, those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

I have avoided actively a myriad of exploits in my videogames career: bunnyhopping, dolphin diving, quick scoping and now "reload cancelling", I want to act like a real fighter, it is my business, if you don't mind.

So you avoid using advanced techniques for the sake of realism?  Do you only use basic kicks and punches in fighting games too?

Advanced moves in fighting games don't require you to cancel out a previous action with a second one.  If you did that, people would kick you out of the room for it.  It's an exploit, just like it was in ME 2, just like it was in Golden Eye and several other shooters. 

There are mechanics in the game that do it for you (AR) and then there is forcing the game to cancel it out, which is a bypass. 

Actually, you're wrong. Street Fighter 4 has a technique called ex cancelling that let's you chain supers. It's an official technique documented in the instruction manual. Lots of games code certain moves to cancel others for advanced techniques, it doesn't always mean it's an unintended exploit.

Bioware has confirmed reload cancel is intended. It's not an exploit. You should get over preconceptions and just use the intended feature to up your game.

[MostlyAutumn]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

I'd once more add to the whole discussion that BioWare only "confirmed" it was a "hidden feature" after a similar "is it an exploit" debate had been kept going back in the days of ME2.

Actually as far as I know that's not true, reload cancel was first mentioned by devs here — http://social.biowar...index/1006000/8

[A Division of Elkoss Combine]

I think reload cancelling would be considered an exploit because you are altering how the reloading mechanism is inteded to work. The developers certainly didn't intend to fire the guns in the middle of the animation. Just think about it....the cartridge case is ejected when you pull back the bolt handler. If at that point the round appears in the barrel but at the same time the animation is not finished yet (e.g. the bolt handler hasn't been pushed back in place") the gun wouldn't be able to fire because the next round wasn't put in place properly. It's unrealistic. (I know, it existed in myriad other games before but in most games you have to actually move for this to work. Here you just press a power off-cooldown, you don't have to leave cover.)

I think if ME3 multiplayer was pvp this shouldn't be allowed to exist. As it stands, it increases your team's damage, so it's only a minor annoyance.

Problems, I think, only arise, when people take extreme advantage (abuse) reload cancelling. For example: human soldier with maxed Adrenaline Rush and Claymore shotgun. Fire the Claymore,  then pop Adrenaline Rush to instantly replace the round, THEN use reload cancelling. (3 shots fired off in a very quick succession from a shotgun that is not meant for this.) I've seen a few people do this, not many, but I consider it somewhat an unfair advantage to their DPS. The Claymore was designed with a slow reload animation for a reason. (Same goes for the Widow and whatnot.)

Of course experienced players who use reload cancelling frequently usually have far better weapons than the new players who haven't heard about this feature. The massive difference in damage would come from the fact that one person has far better weapons than the other and not from the fact that he is reload cancelling. (some people said otherwise)

It would be good if they fixed this but I'm not concerned either way. I'd like to see however the invulnerable cloaked Geth Hunters fixed. We had to leave two gold matches today in rounds 7 and 9 because for some reason two Geth Hunters became.....invulnerable.

[GGW KillerTiger]

I hate these broken forums ... Post now nul and void ...... 

Modifié par GGW KillerTiger, 29 mai 2012 - 01:06 .

[Kronner]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

I'd once more add to the whole discussion that BioWare only "confirmed" it was a "hidden feature" after a similar "is it an exploit" debate had been kept going back in the days of ME2. I find it somewhat alarming how poeple simply accept and promote a post-facto explanation that is about as likely true as it is pulled from somewhere else entirely as the only in-series argument aside from "other games do it too". Not something that I'd call healthy scepticism.

Actually, no. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Christina Norman posted how to do the reload cancel in ME2 even before ANY threads about this were created. Until she mentioned the feature, no one had any idea it was in the game. So yea, post-facto my ass.

[Edalborez]

The animation and the time of actual reload are not necessarily the same. It's not realistic but it's probably saved your life a few times without you actively realizing it.

Look at Left 4 Dead by Valve, for example. That game doesn't have a useful form of reload cancelling. Reloading your weapons will empty the clip; if you switch before the animation completes you will still have an empty clip, even when the magazine physically enters the gun It's more frustrating than the alternative.

Modifié par Edalborez, 29 mai 2012 - 01:18 .

[Fortack]

A Division of Elkoss Combine wrote...

I think reload cancelling would be considered an exploit because you are altering how the reloading mechanism is intended to work. The developers certainly didn't intend to fire the guns in the middle of the animation.

The devs intentionally added this feature. What's your point? In fact, ME1 had a "reload cancelling" exploit called frictionless materials. In ME2 the Claymore would have been totally outclassed by every other shotgun without the reload cancel feature. Pretty lame for the designated elite shotgun don't you think?

I think if ME3 multiplayer was pvp this shouldn't be allowed to exist.

Why? It isn't limited to certain classes and/or weapons. Everyone can use it so it doesn't give anyone an advantage beyond the obvious difference in player's skills. You get a nice damage bonus for shooting enemies in the head, and you get a nice bonus in RoF when you use the reload cancel feature to your advantage. Both require some level of skill (aiming & timing). I honestly fail to see the difference.

[Kuato Livezz]

Devs say its not an exploit and I don't think the game will be patched to "fix" this "issue". IMO, stuff like that has been happening for ages. Remember Street Fighter 2? Most of the combos in that game were based on animation cancelling. Were they called cheaters?

[TheMightyG00sh]

it was an exploit in ME2... if they wanted to take it out they would've. Now it's more of a feature...

[MELTOR]

Kronner wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

I'd once more add to the whole discussion that BioWare only "confirmed" it was a "hidden feature" after a similar "is it an exploit" debate had been kept going back in the days of ME2. I find it somewhat alarming how poeple simply accept and promote a post-facto explanation that is about as likely true as it is pulled from somewhere else entirely as the only in-series argument aside from "other games do it too". Not something that I'd call healthy scepticism.

Actually, no. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Christina Norman posted how to do the reload cancel in ME2 even before ANY threads about this were created. Until she mentioned the feature, no one had any idea it was in the game. So yea, post-facto my ass.

^That. 

Also, this type of 'feature' is generally put into many games intentionally (animation-cancelling is pretty much standard across fighting games...), so I'm not sure what the big hulla-balloo is about. This has been in since ME2, where have you people been? 

[xsmiv]

incinerator950 wrote...

Advanced moves in fighting games don't require you to cancel out a previous action with a second one.  If you did that, people would kick you out of the room for it.

What?  Different kinds of animation cancels have been explicitly included as features in pretty much every fighting game for years.  Just a few examples:

- Chain cancels
- Special cancels
- Super cancels
- Jump cancels
- Dash cancels
- Other game-specific cancel mechanisms such as Focus-attack-dash-cancels in the Street Fighter 4 series and X-factor cancels in the Marvel vs. Capcom 3 series

Numerous techniques and combos, from basic to advanced, depend on some kind of cancel.