336 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth_Trethon]

Gexora wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

The reason I don't like synthesis is because the ghost child says it would cause all life to "reach the final stage" of evolution. Anyone with a highschool's understanding of evolution would know that is bs. But if we took it at its word then synthesis has caused evolutionary stagnation. And according to the theory of evolution, all life in the galaxy will become extinct.

As I have noted a few comments above, there is no such thing as pinnacle of evolution, and given that this wonderful expression came from the very same kid who claimed synthetics have DNA, we should take allhis explanations with a grain of salt 

The machine DNA bit makes some sense given the reapers are made of converted organic matter....reminds me of GORT from The Day The Earth Stood Still or something like that.....Geneticaly Organized Robotic Technology.

Hell in real life our brain produces chemicals we interpret as emotions.....that's right when you're happy or sad or afraid or whatever that's just different chemicals produced by your brain. In a sense we are machines just not made of plastic and metal.

[KingZayd]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

all powered by a reaper artifact and we never had the slightest clue what it might do untill the reaper god told us. Change organic matter into synthetic DNA what do you know? The reapers' favorite hobby.....please tell me you're not going to try to deny this.

Uh, I think you're being a bit hyperbolic here. I don't like Synthesis, and I've more than given my reasons why but it does NOT change people into husks.

You should be able to infer that from the scene on the Jungle planet.

The Reaper's "goal" was to preserve organics and turn them into a flag ship. They were'nt Synthesizing anything. Saren was a puppet, nothing more and Sovreign simply gave him upgrades to further his own goals.

Only based on what the Starchild tells you. Certainly this is how they reproduce, but we have no reason they see us as anything more than a way to do so.

[KingZayd]

Taboo-XX wrote...

If he's a VI he is incapable of independent thought. He's a program that has a set task. This would explain why he hasn't taken in any new data for millions of years. He doesn't see the need to.

He represents an ideal, but only one that is sustainable so as long as no one interferes. When Shepard does, he no longer has any authority. He doesn't hold a gun to your head and force you to choose Synthesis. He's powerless to stop you.

"It also proves that my solution won't work any more"
It's an  AI. It had a solution, and then apparently figured out its solution is no longer a solution.

[KingZayd]

InHarmsWay wrote...

The reason I don't like synthesis is because the ghost child says it would cause all life to "reach the final stage" of evolution. Anyone with a highschool's understanding of evolution would know that is bs. But if we took it at its word then synthesis has caused evolutionary stagnation. And according to the theory of evolution, all life in the galaxy will become extinct; making synthesis the most horrific act of genocide imaginable.

the last evolutionary stage before extinction is the final stage of evolution

[Gexora]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Mind-control? More like tries to trick you into it. And the VI claims make no sense at all....it is clearly choosing to appear like the child Shep couldn't save.....both intentional by BioWare and catalyst....why do so unless it has an ulterior motive? Why not appear as anyone else or a made up look or an object. And it proclaims itself te creator of the reapers and sure tries to pass for an intelligent being.....why the deliberate trickery if it's just an innocent VI?

I can see it as a rogue AI that got out of control and turned the original inhabitants of the citadel into reapers and escalated from there.....sort of like the rogue AI from I Robot but an AI nonetheless and a very twisted one at that but not a VI.

Well, I don't support a VI theory. But if it tried to trick me it failed since its representation of Synthesis is incredibly stupid, makes no sense and doesn't do anything to make me believe it's the best choice
And I am pretty sure geth platforms have no DNA

[Taboo]

An AI would trick you.

A VI would present faulty logic because it can't do anything else.

He's an incredibly limited VI.

[Gexora]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Consent to do something is very important to a liberal democracy. You shouldn't have to option in to something like this if you don't want to. You say you study law, yes? My father doesn't do criminal law but he does do medical malpractice. He's shared on more than one occasion some horror stories about things that have happened to clients. Sometimes they go in for surgery and get something MORE than they asked for. The Doctor has no right to do that to them.

I for example, had my tonsils removed some years ago and even against the doctors urging I said that I didn't want to have my uvula removed. Why? Because I needed the tonsils removed, nothing more. That right to consent to an "improvement" is mine and mine alone.

I can certainly see how someone would choose to enact Synthesis to better the Galaxy, but I cannot justify it for the simple fact that it affects EVERYTHING. Every piece of grass, every cell, every dog and cat now has whatever Synthesis does in them.

That's an enormous change and one I cannot justify on billions upon billions of beings without their consent.

Yep, I have done medical malpractice as well. However, real life is somewhat different from the letter of law... and sometimes following principles of liberal democracy won't save anyone, 
Shepard kind of didn't get the option to create the Galaxy's biggest poll on: "hey guys, do you want me to defeat the Reapers with the sidedish of:
- destroying all synthetic life with possible consequences of future synthetics harboring a grudge
- trying to control the Reaper armada and use them for good (and possibly failing horribly)
- giving all of you green eyes and titanium lungs?"
And I can tell that most of those people would a) freak out choose first option. But, just like Anderson, they are not the heroes of this story. They are scared organics who want to survive.
Yes, maybe it's hubris, maybe it's thinking that you know better - but after three games of saving an incredibly stupid Galaxy all by yourself, it's kinda hard not to feel justified in that.
I guess it all boils down to your particular Shepards, whether they are capable of coming to terms with "playing God" or not

Modifié par Gexora, 07 juin 2012 - 07:41 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Well the Geth aren't that advanced but we don't know how they may have advanced in 300 years....Legion and EDI seem to develop organic like emotions....the important thing to remember is that they are software....also both were affected greatly by reaper tech. A bit far fetched but I think BioWare can pull it off.

[Sisterofshane]

Taboo-XX wrote...

An AI would trick you.

A VI would present faulty logic because it can't do anything else.

He's an incredibly limited VI.

And we can see from Vigil, Victory and Vendetta that a VI program can seem incredibly sophisticated, and yet still be bound by strict programming.

I like this theory.

[Gexora]

God, somewhere at Bioware someone is laughing his ass off pointing at the screen and saying: "lol we just put space magic in there so we could have drama symbolism and ART and these guys are like so overthinking this crap. Like we would even care whether the Catalyst is VI or AI, who gives a damn, SPECULATIONS"

[Darth_Trethon]

Taboo-XX wrote...

An AI would trick you.

A VI would present faulty logic because it can't do anything else.

He's an incredibly limited VI.

Deliberate lies(creating reapers, citadel being part of it etc.) and the deliberate choice of look aren't explained by faulty logic....sorry but the VI argument just doesn't hold.

[Taboo]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

An AI would trick you.

A VI would present faulty logic because it can't do anything else.

He's an incredibly limited VI.

And we can see from Vigil, Victory and Vendetta that a VI program can seem incredibly sophisticated, and yet still be bound by strict programming.

I like this theory.

Should we start another fire? No I jest but I think it's certainly something to think about.

[Taboo]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

An AI would trick you.

A VI would present faulty logic because it can't do anything else.

He's an incredibly limited VI.

Deliberate lies(creating reapers, citadel being part of it etc.) and the deliberate choice of look aren't explained by faulty logic....sorry but the VI argument just doesn't hold.

He doesn't lie about anything. He's stuck to a strict program. The form he has taken is a way for him to relate to us, nothing more.

[Sisterofshane]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Should we start another fire?

Come on baby...

[Taboo]

I was thinking Billy Joel.

Awwwwww.

[Darth_Trethon]

Gexora wrote...

God, somewhere at Bioware someone is laughing his ass off pointing at the screen and saying: "lol we just put space magic in there so we could have drama symbolism and ART and these guys are like so overthinking this crap. Like we would even care whether the Catalyst is VI or AI, who gives a damn, SPECULATIONS"

Well their future depends on it and they just saw BHG Studio 38 bite the dust recently. They're making money now but with copy-pasted maps in DA II and the ME3 fan rage they are already digging their own grave. In another five to ten years it'll be them biting the dust if they don't treat this seriously. I guess the EC will give us a hint or two.

[Darth_Trethon]

Taboo-XX wrote...
He doesn't lie about anything. He's stuck to a strict program. The form he has taken is a way for him to relate to us, nothing more.

Right....it's all just innocent coincidence....that argument is still not holding.

[Sisterofshane]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I was thinking Billy Joel.

Awwwwww.

Lol, my Billy Joel knowledge is a bit rusty.

The Doors are always a good stand in.

[Xamufam]

Modifié par Troxa, 07 juin 2012 - 08:13 .

[Xamufam]

Gexora wrote...

Hi people, just wanted to share my opinion on Synthesis (which seems really unpopular, but what else is new). 
Now, I hate all three endings. The mere thought of them makes me wanna rage all day, wrecking furniture and shouting at people in the street (I don't do that, in case anyone wonders). The first time I finished the game, I was stupefied and just kind of walked into the beam.
However, now that I have had some time to consider the ending, I came to the following conclusion: if EC just cements existing endings the way Catalyst presented them, I will Alt+F... sorry, I will choose Synthesis on my canon Shepard.
Because it's the least awful option for her, and that's why: 
Why I can't choose Destroy.
 My Shep is renegade (Me1 and Me2 renegade, not the crazy jerk of ME3), so she knows that sometimes you have to sacrifice 10 people for the good of 100. Or sacrifice a race to save all others. However, all her lifetime she believed that synthetics and organics can live peacefully, it was one of her main goals - to show that synthetics are people just like us and we can co-exist. To destroy them all just when they started to prove us right by helping the quarians would be destroying everything she fought her, nullify her biggest victory.
And it's not only personal matter. Peace between synthetics and organics is hard to achieve, not because "the created will always rebel against the creators" bull****, but because we are so different and so naturally suspicious of each other, especially given how fast synthetics can evolve. It took a lot of efforts from Shepard to establish peace, and it's fragile for now, but it can blossom. While if we destroy the geth now, we can only hope that in the future somebody else manages the same thing.... but it only took one question to start the Morning War, and who is to say another spark like that won't ignite another centuries-long conflict?
Of couse, if it was an only option - then yes. But we also have:
Control
Which I think is a real trap here. It looks better than all other options - you don't destroy your friends, Citadel seems fine and mass relays are merely damaged and you now have bigass army you can control. However, do I believe, that one person, no matter how awesome my or your Shepard is, can control thousands of sentiens ancient warships? No.
Which brings us to synthesis.
Synthesis is, without a doubt, the most retarded ending ever, with possible exception for the ending of the Limbo of the Lost (which was at least funny). It's explanation doesn't make sense, it's pure space magic at its best. We don't get to see the consequences of our choices so we can only speculate.
But I disagree with a few points which are over and over again brought up against the synthesis: 
You are a space Hitler! You cannot decide for all the galaxy!
Guess what, that happens in most of videogames where you are the saviour of the galaxy/earth/your country/whatever. Your choices affect the rest of your people's lives. You just choose what you think is best.
Yes, such a major change will be scary for some, but my Shepard (who went full retard at this point, but that has already been discussed) is not afraid of making a few people upset
Synthesis destroys diversity. 
No it doesn't. From what we have seen, all it does is give people green eyes. Which sucks if you liked your girlfriend's baby blues, but is preferable to extinction. 
There are still different races, its just they have been upgraded. It's like you and I went out and got a similar tattoo - would not change the fact we are both different. 
Synthesis doesn't solve anything! You can still create new synthetics and be killed by them!
To that I can only say - F*CK Catalyst and his "created will always rebel agains the creator". I have a car and it didn't kill me yet
You are doing what Saren wanted, as opposed to what Anderson wanted.
This makes me facepalm every single time. Saren wanted to live in submission. Shepard doesn't. 
And Anderson... Anderson is a simple man. A soldier. He just wants to blow all this ****ers up. But he isn't the hero of this story (neither, admittedly, are you, but you get to decide between Red, Blue or Green). 
You have been indoctrinated. 
Don't believe IT, don't care about IT, don't bring it into this discussion

If anyone had read it up to this point - thank you. Have a cookie

ignores the fact that changin a living organisms entire DNA structure
instantly would be incredibly painful and undeniably lethal.  Also it
takes YEARS for subtle gene therapy to work and using it increases the
risk of cancer and mutations.

[Gexora]

Troxa wrote...
ignores the fact that changin a living organisms entire DNA structure
instantly would be incredibly painful and undeniably lethal.  Also it
takes YEARS for subtle gene therapy to work and using it increases the
risk of cancer and mutations.

Good thing we have space magic then.
I think Imma gonna update the OP again to talk about this complaint as well

[Gexora]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I was thinking Billy Joel.

Awwwwww.

Lol, my Billy Joel knowledge is a bit rusty.

The Doors are always a good stand in.

So people... get a thread?

[Foxhound2121]

Gexora wrote...

Foxhound2121 wrote...

Gexora wrote...

Foxhound2121 wrote...

I certainly hope that the synthesis fans don't give their hopes up for the EC. I honestly doubt it is what you think it is considering destroy is the only ending where shepard lives.

That has already been marketed as the de facto best ending.

Marketed as de facto best ending? Where, sorry/ As far as I am concerned, synthesis is markete as one

Synthesis doesn't give you shepard breathes scene. That is marketed as best ending because of EMS.

I think the problem is that a lot of people overthink that scene. Many facts hint that It wasn't meant to be THAT significant, just kind of like nice Easter Egg or something. Probably because so many people said they were ready to sacrifice their Sheps for better future

I'm just saying don't give your hopes up. Since destroy is the only ending where shepard lives, it will undoubtely be the most rewarding. Plus, they need a reason for EMS to be important.

[Zaalbar]

My Shepard picks synthesis because its... its Green? And guaranteed to knock you on your ass.

[Ieldra]

Gexora wrote...
Yes, maybe it's hubris, maybe it's thinking that you know better - but after three games of saving an incredibly stupid Galaxy all by yourself, it's kinda hard not to feel justified in that.

LOL, you have a point. The only characters who don't do or say something incredibly stupid in any of the games are those who don't talk or act much at all.

I guess it all boils down to your particular Shepards, whether they are capable of coming to terms with "playing God" or not

"Playing god" is pejorative. My main Shepard believes - with me - that there is no level of power we shouldn't aspire to, and rather than refuse it, learn to use it responsibly. Admittedly, the Catalyst makes that incredibly hard because it doesn't provide any meaningful information.