336 réponses à ce sujet

[frylock23]

Synthesis gives you the chance to play God on a galactic scale in a very "Let it be so" sort of way, and it asks you to do so to solve a completely hypothetical situation. IMO, the proper answer is that it's just a wee bit above my pay grade.

[Gexora]

SirRaven10 wrote...

My reason for choosing Synthesis was a lot less complex....I just wanted Joker to get some "action".

Dude you have no idea
First time around I chose Synthesis for exactly the same reasons.
And it's still a better reasons then all of them from my OP combined

[Gexora]

Taboo-XX wrote...

feliciano2040 wrote...

Gexora wrote...

And I will point it out again and again - SAREN DIDN'T WANT TO BE INTERTWINED WITH SYNTHETICS. What Saren wanted, or rather, was brainwashed to want, was to serve Reapers to avoid extinction. The tech upgrades just sorta came with the job

Reason, it is present in this post.

The problem with Synthesis has nothing to do with that,

It is the ethical dilemna of interferring with the way life is. Creating a new DNA framework on a galactic level based upon the choice of one person isn't very ethical in my opinion. Yes it will solve the HYPOTHETICAL singularity that is proposed by the Star Child and will prevent the issue between them.

But what right to you have to enforce that on others?

To you (and to frylock 23 who presented the same argument): 
Yes. the problem the star**** presents is purely hypothetical. And Synthesis doesn't solve it anyway, commander Shepard and his/her previous actions do
But regardless, you are given three awful choices... and the alternative is to let the Galaxy burn. As much as I would like to tell the catalyst to **** off and that his logic is faulty, I cannot because it basically dooms the galaxy I had promised to save. 

As on "you have no right to decide for everybody', please read my OP - the part where I talk about being a Space Hitler. Also note this quote by ardensia:
"Yes, it is playing God. All options are, including doing nothing. But sometimes we must play God to the lives of others, whether or not we want to, whether or not it's fair, and whether or not they have any say in it whatsoever, just as parents play God to their young children. " 

[Jadebaby]

I only read the bold parts, but I agree with you. Synthesis is stupid.

[Gexora]

Theobuomai wrote...

I think your points about Saren are especially well said. The connection between synthesis and Saren is often a little too simplified.

Still, I would dispute that it doesn't negate diversity. I don't mean this in the sense that diversity is ended because everyone is suddenly the same, but because it forces evolution into one track amongst the whole entire universe, and that evolution is the source of diversity. It's akin to the genophage, and akin to the collectors. Basically, you have just violated, by your own choice, every other being in the universe. You have forced choice, your own will, onto everyone else. Is that utilitarian violation worth the end goal? Is Shepard forcing his/her choice and violating, or at least disallowing, everyone else's choice and integrity worth it to stop the Reapers? That's your choice, but I personally think it negates the very meaning of what it means to be in existence.

Or maybe Synthesis is really BW's solution to figure out how EDI's and Joker's relationship could actually be physically possible. Just sayin...

Joker and EDI FTW I WILL READILY DOOM THE GALAXY FOR THEM.
That said - while I addressed the part about choosing for everyone one post above, I would like to tell you my opinion regarding the bolded part. 
I don't think it will stop evolution. Maybe phusically we won't change, but evolution is not purely phusical. Do you think mecha-krogan and mecha-salarians will be the same? No. So how can their future be similar? They are two completely different races, they have different goals they will be trying to achieve, different art, different ideas, different creations, etc.

[Taboo]

You are playing God on a galactic level. That is FAR different than several thousand.

EDI says that death is preferable to being changed.

I would rather kill several thousand than force billions to change against their will and without their input.

An awful thing to say but I really can't justify Synthesis.

Destroy.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 17 mai 2012 - 07:55 .

[Gexora]

Taboo-XX wrote...

You are playing God on a galactic level. That is FAR different than several thousand.

EDI says that death is preferable to being changed.

I would rather kill several thousand than force billions to change against their will and without their input.

An awful thing to say but I really can't justify Synthesis.

Destroy.

Well, if you are so set in your opinion I don't think I can change it. EDI seems pretty happy in the ending tho

And it's not the first videogame where you play God. And in fact the whole mass effect premise was - YOU decide the fate of the Galaxy (hey bioware? no, we didn't) - so it's kind of also playing God. 

[Taboo]

Gexora wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You are playing God on a galactic level. That is FAR different than several thousand.

EDI says that death is preferable to being changed.

I would rather kill several thousand than force billions to change against their will and without their input.

An awful thing to say but I really can't justify Synthesis.

Destroy.

Well, if you are so set in your opinion I don't think I can change it. EDI seems pretty happy in the ending tho

And it's not the first videogame where you play God. And in fact the whole mass effect premise was - YOU decide the fate of the Galaxy (hey bioware? no, we didn't) - so it's kind of also playing God. 

I think we're splitting hairs here. One is interference to stop one force from doing so. The other is effects evry organic and synthetic being on a galactic scale.

They are seperate things.

[ShepnTali]

Taboo-XX wrote...

You are playing God on a galactic level. That is FAR different than several thousand.

EDI says that death is preferable to being changed.

I would rather kill several thousand than force billions to change against their will and without their input.

An awful thing to say but I really can't justify Synthesis.

Destroy.

I believe Legion says/implies the same thing as EDI, after you choose destroy over rewrite in ME2.

[FellishBeast]

Because he is an idiot who gave into indoctrination?

[Gexora]

FellishBeast wrote...

Because he is an idiot who gave into indoctrination?

Yep, sure, next

[Grimwick]

Synthesis just doesn't work from a logical, technical or narrative viewpoint in all honesty.

[Taboo]

ShepnTali wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You are playing God on a galactic level. That is FAR different than several thousand.

EDI says that death is preferable to being changed.

I would rather kill several thousand than force billions to change against their will and without their input.

An awful thing to say but I really can't justify Synthesis.

Destroy.

I believe Legion says/implies the same thing as EDI, after you choose destroy over rewrite in ME2.

Ouch, Makes Synthesis look like a ****.

And the geth reach a consensus. That means they would all rather die than be changed.

[Fixers0]

Becaue (s)he is dumb?

[Gexora]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Gexora wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You are playing God on a galactic level. That is FAR different than several thousand.

EDI says that death is preferable to being changed.

I would rather kill several thousand than force billions to change against their will and without their input.

An awful thing to say but I really can't justify Synthesis.

Destroy.

Well, if you are so set in your opinion I don't think I can change it. EDI seems pretty happy in the ending tho

And it's not the first videogame where you play God. And in fact the whole mass effect premise was - YOU decide the fate of the Galaxy (hey bioware? no, we didn't) - so it's kind of also playing God. 

I think we're splitting hairs here. One is interference to stop one force from doing so. The other is effects evry organic and synthetic being on a galactic scale.

They are seperate things.

... I am sorry, I am not a native english speaker, so I googled this expression and was told it's basically the same as nitpicking. Which kinda doesn't make sense considering your position

Fixers0 wrote...

Becaue (s)he is dumb?

 
You and FellishBeast should go form a club or something

[Taboo]

Sorry about that.

You are comparing something that affects beings all over the galaxy with Synthesis.

In the other instances you are preventing a Reaper victory.

[MisterJB]

Taboo-XX wrote...
Ouch, Makes Synthesis look like a ****.

And the geth reach a consensus. That means they would all rather die than be changed.

No, they clearly chose change over death at least twice in ME3.

[Taboo]

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
Ouch, Makes Synthesis look like a ****.

And the geth reach a consensus. That means they would all rather die than be changed.

No, they clearly chose change over death at least twice in ME3.

They chose an upgrade.

One race.

One.

Synthesis effects everyone.

[MisterJB]

Taboo-XX wrote...
They chose an upgrade.

One race.

One.

Synthesis effects everyone.

I can just as easy claim Synthesis is an upgrade. Ultimately, the Reaper code fundamentally changed their species.

And I was just pointing our the error in what you had said. Not claiming that the geth are representatives of the galaxy.

[Taboo]

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
They chose an upgrade.

One race.

One.

Synthesis effects everyone.

I can just as easy claim Synthesis is an upgrade. Ultimately, the Reaper code fundamentally changed their species.

And I was just pointing our the error in what you had said. Not claiming that the geth are representatives of the galaxy.

We could argue that, yes. But I would like to point out they did not opt in for the upgrade. It is forced upon them. That's my issue with Synthesis.

[frylock23]

Gexora wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You are playing God on a galactic level. That is FAR different than several thousand.

EDI says that death is preferable to being changed.

I would rather kill several thousand than force billions to change against their will and without their input.

An awful thing to say but I really can't justify Synthesis.

Destroy.

Well, if you are so set in your opinion I don't think I can change it. EDI seems pretty happy in the ending tho

And it's not the first videogame where you play God. And in fact the whole mass effect premise was - YOU decide the fate of the Galaxy (hey bioware? no, we didn't) - so it's kind of also playing God. 

Yeah, because the thought of EDI and Joker gettin' it on is so worth committing total galactic genocide which is what synthesis does.

/sarc.

You get that don't you? You even kill EDI in synthesis. Whatever that is that comes out of the Normandy with that other thing that looks like Joker? ... yeah, it's not what you knew as EDI. See, you changed it. It has something like DNA now making it something completely different and alien to what it was.

But I get that you're totally happy getting off to thoughts of you sexbot.

[Gexora]

Taboo-XX wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
Ouch, Makes Synthesis look like a ****.

And the geth reach a consensus. That means they would all rather die than be changed.

No, they clearly chose change over death at least twice in ME3.

They chose an upgrade.

One race.

One.

Synthesis effects everyone.

I think the point is that the RACE which didn't want to be changed DID change several times, when faced with possible extinction.
However, we are missing EDI's point here. She didn't mean it like "all change is bad", which is stupid, because changing is what keeps us going. Evolution IS change. 
It was more like "death is preferable to becomnig a Reaper puppet". But according to the endings and the Catalyst, we didn't. We remained ourselves, but changed. Some might not take this change well. But people rebelled agains vaccination

offtopic - oh how I miss Harby! Even the horrible endings would have been fine with him around, saying all this bull**** in his sexy boomy voice

[Pinkflamingo22]

Destroy is the only choice. All other choices result in the failure of the mission and the end of the human race.

I choose destroy. every. damn. time.

[Gexora]

frylock23 wrote...

Gexora wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You are playing God on a galactic level. That is FAR different than several thousand.

EDI says that death is preferable to being changed.

I would rather kill several thousand than force billions to change against their will and without their input.

An awful thing to say but I really can't justify Synthesis.

Destroy.

Well, if you are so set in your opinion I don't think I can change it. EDI seems pretty happy in the ending tho

And it's not the first videogame where you play God. And in fact the whole mass effect premise was - YOU decide the fate of the Galaxy (hey bioware? no, we didn't) - so it's kind of also playing God. 

Yeah, because the thought of EDI and Joker gettin' it on is so worth committing total galactic genocide which is what synthesis does.

/sarc.

You get that don't you? You even kill EDI in synthesis. Whatever that is that comes out of the Normandy with that other thing that looks like Joker? ... yeah, it's not what you knew as EDI. See, you changed it. It has something like DNA now making it something completely different and alien to what it was.

But I get that you're totally happy getting off to thoughts of you sexbot.

Now I don't get it. I don't get it  how ou can ignore my counterarguments so blatantly, unless you are just trolling, but I won't think so cause I just don't like thinking bad about people I don't know. 
BTW, waas calling me a sexbot an insult or a compliment? 

[Taboo]

Gexora wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
Ouch, Makes Synthesis look like a ****.

And the geth reach a consensus. That means they would all rather die than be changed.

No, they clearly chose change over death at least twice in ME3.

They chose an upgrade.

One race.

One.

Synthesis effects everyone.

I think the point is that the RACE which didn't want to be changed DID change several times, when faced with possible extinction.
However, we are missing EDI's point here. She didn't mean it like "all change is bad", which is stupid, because changing is what keeps us going. Evolution IS change. 
It was more like "death is preferable to becomnig a Reaper puppet". But according to the endings and the Catalyst, we didn't. We remained ourselves, but changed. Some might not take this change well. But people rebelled agains vaccination

offtopic - oh how I miss Harby! Even the horrible endings would have been fine with him around, saying all this bull**** in his sexy boomy voice

People have every right to protest against vaccines. They also run the risk of dying from diseases that are easily preventable.

The key word here is choice.