219 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

It really bugs me that this modern view that any form of corporal punishment used on kids if horrifying. That is will scar them for life and psychological crap like that (that is totally bogus).

I mean WTF? I'm 30 and I was raised when it was still used.
Not only that, but in my town the entire comminity was involved in raising a child.

If I were to steal something or do something really bad I got cought by someone - first that someone would slap me, then he would tell my dad..and he'd punish me. Doesn't matter who caught me - the old neighbor next door, the cashier in the store, the teacher - everyone had a unspoken approval to set me straight.
Kids has respect for their elders. I know I never, ever disrespected my elders, nor I ever do now.


Kids these days? They openly disrespect, even assault old people. Even teachers are not safe. And if the teacher slaps the kid? He can loose the job. Worse, he can get beat up by the father...heck, I know plenty of teacher don't even dare to flunk a kid. Because the parents woudl raise all hell for failign their super-special-snowflake. Kids are more protected than the most endangered species, and they know it. Tehy know they can get away with a lot more than before.

Now child-raising is exclusively the domain of the parents..Except parents seem to blame everyone else when their child goes bad (games, schools, TV,s, books), as if they expect everyone else to raise their children... but don't really allow everyone else to do it...except maybe the TV.


From one extreeme of child abuse (and I've seen that too...there are people out ther to whom I would entrust a dog...heck,I wouldn't entrust them anything living) to the other......

* le sigh*

[chunkyman]

Kids are undisciplined these days. Pave have stopped spanking and belting, but have not replaced it with an alternative form of discipline. Now kids grow up with no morals or respect for others; a generation of self-entitled monsters has been created.

Modifié par chunkyman, 17 mai 2012 - 08:24 .

[Vaern Sul]

I know that feel bro.

It's hitting home for me, because I have a cousin whom I used to be very close to.
He was about as clever as I was. Hell he even outwitted me sometimes. The only difference was our education. I got slapped when I ****ed up. He never even got gentle scolding when he did.
Now ? I'm studying to become an engineer, and he's putting ceramic tiles on bathroom floors for a living.

And the worst part ? Now that this method of "raising" children is the norm, it's twice as hard for parents to do some actual, proper raising without being called child molesters.

Oh, also, inb4 "u dunno wassup old man", "times have changed old fart", "Your parents were child molesters !!!1!one" and "don't teach me how to raise my kids !".

Modifié par Vaern Sul, 17 mai 2012 - 08:26 .

[Eurypterid]

Every generation says pretty much the same thing about the generation that comes after them.

Corporal punishment? Yeah, used to be people were put in stocks, cut off the hands of thieves, and there were public floggings.

Personally, I'm glad to see we've progressed from that.

[chunkyman]

Vaern Sul wrote...

Oh, also, inb4 "u dunno wassup old man", "times have changed old fart", "Your parents were child molesters !!!1!one" and "don't teach me how to raise my kids !".

Rest assured, you will see the "discipline is, like, child abuse maannnn." people condemning anyone who punishes their kids (gasp!) for bad behavior. Every thief and moral degenerate I know was either a result of no discipline as a child or truly abusive parents. 

"My little angel is innocent! It's just a shoplifting phase, he'll grow out of it after a good talking to!"

Modifié par chunkyman, 17 mai 2012 - 08:35 .

[Vaern Sul]

Eurypterid wrote...

Every generation says pretty much the same thing about the generation that comes after them.

Corporal punishment? Yeah, used to be people were put in stocks, cut off the hands of thieves, and there were public floggings.

Personally, I'm glad to see we've progressed from that.

Look, I'm all about progress, but changing one's method of education for the sake of it is just as dumb as clinging to the candle because light bulbs are new and scary. 
How exactly is raising a kid by not telling him/her what's wrong a progress ? How exactly is the fact that teachers are afraid to speak louder as a direct result of the sanctification of kids a progress ?
This, my friend, is not progress. It's going somewhere because staying in place is considered dumb.
Well guess what ? When you're standing on the edge of a cliff, going forward might not be such a keen idea.

[horacethegrey]

Strange. When I was a kid my mom would slap me around if I said or did something wrong. At the time I thought it was unfair and I'd cry just like any kid.

Now that I'm an adult, whenever I see my nephews or nieces misbehaving I tend to do the same thing. No slapping though, I always leave that to the parent.

But I do understand now, kids can be annoying as hell. And it's the responsibility of any parent figure to discipline them. We don't want them growing up without any respect for their elders.

[Clover Rider]

Hitting kids is dumb.

[Clover Rider]

jreezy wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Hitting kids is dumb.

But it works.

In what way?

Modifié par Some Geth, 17 mai 2012 - 10:40 .

[Homebound]

jreezy wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Hitting kids is dumb.

But it works.

no it doesnt.

edit: as for the OP...
Ya..i dunno what to tell u bro. It really does take a village to raise a child. But thats something we just dont have in today's society. Kids do get a free pass to be monsters. Being kids, making mistakes is part of growing up, but some of the crap that goes on...But take comform, one day, they'll be an adult, and at that point if they havent smartened up, theyre fair game. There is a price to be paid if you don't grow up and overcome yourself. Although that brings us full circle to the parents who raise us.

Modifié par Hellbound555, 17 mai 2012 - 10:52 .

[Naughty Bear]

people at my age are disgusting. No respect at all. Each one deserves a punch in the face and military service. When I was 16 (now 18) my peers made a teacher cry, assaulted one, slashed a teachers tyres, threw chairs at them and openly abused them. My generation has no hope, the majority of them are sleeping around getting pregnant, drinking on the streets, no job and on benefits. It's embarrassing.

[Homebound]

Naughty Bear wrote...

people at my age are disgusting. No respect at all. Each one deserves a punch in the face and military service. When I was 16 (now 18) my peers made a teacher cry, assaulted one, slashed a teachers tyres, threw chairs at them and openly abused them. My generation has no hope, the majority of them are sleeping around getting pregnant, drinking on the streets, no job and on benefits. It's embarrassing.

holy crap naughty bear, did I go to school with you or something? or is it that bad everywhere? I remember one of my councilers quit 2 years before retirement cuz one of the idiot students at my highschool chased her two blocks from school with a knife.

edit: as for that quip about your generation having no hope, drinking on the streets etc..as a person who used to work at a soup kitchen, let me tell u, thats an unfair generalization. Some of those people who are getting caught in your generalization are people who are ill or victims of every kind of abuse. Again, full circle. back to parents.

Modifié par Hellbound555, 17 mai 2012 - 11:00 .

[Clover Rider]

Naughty Bear wrote...

people at my age are disgusting. No respect at all. Each one deserves a punch in the face and military service. When I was 16 (now 18) my peers made a teacher cry, assaulted one, slashed a teachers tyres, threw chairs at them and openly abused them. My generation has no hope, the majority of them are sleeping around getting pregnant, drinking on the streets, no job and on benefits. It's embarrassing.

But you and I(and others) are not like that, so our generation is not that bad...

Also military service will not help them, all it will do is f**k up the military.

And what Hellbound555 said.

Modifié par Some Geth, 17 mai 2012 - 11:05 .

[Russalka]

When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint.

Hesiod, 8th century BC

What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?

Plato, 4th Century BC

Juvenile delinquency has increased at an alarming rate and is eating at the heart of America

US juvenile court judge, 1946

In the 1800s, hordes of teens and pre-teens ran wild in American city streets, dodging authorities, "gnawing away at the foundations of society", as a commentator put it. In 1850, New York City recorded more than 200 gang wars fought largely by adolescent boys.

Modifié par Russalka, 17 mai 2012 - 11:15 .

[Homebound]

Russalka wrote...

When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint.

Hesiod, 8th century BC

What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?

Plato, 4th Century BC

Juvenile delinquency has increased at an alarming rate and is eating at the heart of America

US juvenile court judge, 1946

In the 1800s, hordes of teens and pre-teens ran wild in American city streets, dodging authorities, "gnawing away at the foundations of society", as a commentator put it. In 1850, New York City recorded more than 200 gang wars fought largely by adolescent boys.

i guess nothing ever really changes huh?

[android654]

I'm all for spanking, but not on kids.

jreezy wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Hitting kids is dumb.

But it works.

In what way?

Fear of pain.

It lets you hit kids. So in that way, it works.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Eurypterid wrote...

Every generation says pretty much the same thing about the generation that comes after them.

Corporal punishment? Yeah, used to be people were put in stocks, cut off the hands of thieves, and there were public floggings.

Personally, I'm glad to see we've progressed from that.

Dude, I'm talking specificly about raising children. In that ascpet we have regressed. Considerably.


Oh and the "every generations sez X" is an auto-fail argument, because it can be ALWAYS used no matter what.
It's a hand-wave designed to avoid actually tackling the issue.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Russalka wrote...

When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint.

Hesiod, 8th century BC

What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?

Plato, 4th Century BC

Juvenile delinquency has increased at an alarming rate and is eating at the heart of America

US juvenile court judge, 1946

In the 1800s, hordes of teens and pre-teens ran wild in American city streets, dodging authorities, "gnawing away at the foundations of society", as a commentator put it. In 1850, New York City recorded more than 200 gang wars fought largely by adolescent boys.

All that proves is htat s*** liek this is cyclical.

Kids go bad, parents start geting physical, kids get better.
Later people handwave and dismiss getting physical,  and we get back to square one.

[Seagloom]

Some Geth wrote...

Hitting kids is dumb.

Indeed. I was raised in the last generation where hitting was considered en vogue. Growing up I was slapped, lashed, and on one occasion, punched in the stomach. I was also punished in ways some might consider torture. No one considered it abuse back then because it was just the acceptable way to raise a kid in a Hispanic household. None of those experiences taught me to respect my elders or be a better person. All it did was make me feel paranoid, helpless, and resentful. It also left me with a void I needed to fill with a certain someone's approval that I will probably carry for the rest of my life.

What taught me respect and empathy was example and positive reinforcement. Seeing people behave in a certain way and wanting to emulate them so I could be as loved as they were. Being comforted after I was hit or punised which highlighted why kindness was important. Being told I was doing good when I did good; and occasionally, if warranted, being rewarded for it.

Nothing great in my life ever came from being hit. Based on the few times I hit a niece or nephew when I still a teen that didn't know better, I don't think it's a useful disciplinary tool from the other side of the fence either.

My latest nieces and nephews from two different sisters are among the most well behaved childen I've seen, and neither of my siblings believes in hitting.

So yes, it's dumb.

I can agree there are parents out there failing in their personal responsibility to care for their children, but violence is not the answer.

And before anyone pulls the anecdotal evidence card, I will note the premise of this thread is in itself anecdotal.

Modifié par Seagloom, 17 mai 2012 - 12:00 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Greece wasn't a great society in classic age. The philosophers like Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Zeno and other stoics and few physicians and mathematics tried to create a minority of sage and moral people and teachers, but this country wasn't too great until the coming of Christianity.

This kind of behavior is developed and allowed in large cities by liberal governments after the world war II and specially since the 90s ... for the sake of liberty and your rights! ... now it is expanding through all countries of the world, because of Internet.

Ungrateful children and teens, unstable society .. This is simply chaos.

I think the world need another educational movement like Confucianism, in 21th century.

--------------------

Punishment is sometimes necessary for some arrogant kids, rarely for humble kids. But erasing it and veneration of children has brought the anarchic generation of today.

Modifié par Imperial Sentinel Arian, 17 mai 2012 - 12:16 .

[Russalka]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

All that proves is htat s*** liek this is cyclical.

Kids go bad, parents start geting physical, kids get better.
Later people handwave and dismiss getting physical,  and we get back to square one.

More like, children suck and tend to get annoying whether you hit them or not.

I doubt coddling children was very common until last century.

Modifié par Russalka, 17 mai 2012 - 12:14 .

[Aerevane]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Russalka wrote...

When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint.

Hesiod, 8th century BC

What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?

Plato, 4th Century BC

Juvenile delinquency has increased at an alarming rate and is eating at the heart of America

US juvenile court judge, 1946

In the 1800s, hordes of teens and pre-teens ran wild in American city streets, dodging authorities, "gnawing away at the foundations of society", as a commentator put it. In 1850, New York City recorded more than 200 gang wars fought largely by adolescent boys.

All that proves is htat s*** liek this is cyclical.

Kids go bad, parents start geting physical, kids get better.
Later people handwave and dismiss getting physical,  and we get back to square one.

It only proves that pre-puberty and kids in puberty are not yet grown up yet to take responsability and incorporate long term planning. Their brains haven't developed that far yet. It's of all times and hitting children won't change it a bit. Hitting a child won't make their brain develop faster and will more likely contribute to a higher agression factor.

Modifié par Aerevane, 17 mai 2012 - 12:14 .

[Vaern Sul]

...So, they don't feel responsible for their acts, so we shouldn't punish them, because they apparently cannot learn lessons ?
Please tell me that's not what you're saying.