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Child rearing and corporal punishment


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#126
Lotion Soronarr

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Imperial Sentinel Arian wrote..
Gang of 'Animal Lovers'

If a boy is beaten by a bully you would possibly do nothing, but those children deserve stoning eh?

I like to see what would you do when a wolf is tearing apart a child?

If it be against the law I would warn them not to harm the animals, but if it isn't I don't give a damn. They're not my sapient brothers anyway.



Empathy is the key human characteristic.
Humans that inflict pain on others for the sole purpose of self-gratification are the worst lot on the planet.
Enjoying someone elses pain or being indifferent to is is horryfing.

I'm dissapointed in you Arian. Very dissapointed.

#127
Kaiser Arian XVII

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^ It was an 'overreaction' from me toward the guy that I answered to... I didn't completely mean that by 'give a damn'.
I don't enjoy from pain of others and I'm not totally indifferent.

I suppose you're right. Empathy toward other creatures can bring a good sense and also it can influence your general relation to other people to be more kind.

Modifié par Imperial Sentinel Arian, 18 mai 2012 - 08:34 .


#128
Lotion Soronarr

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Well, I can understand him.. animal cruealty (especially towards dogs) is my berserk bottun.

Show me a movie with a dog dying and I'll cry like a baby.
Show me a movie with some guy/girl dying and I'll just shrug.

#129
Tirigon

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Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Corporal punishment needs to be outlawed because the difference between a deserved slap on the head and child abuse can sometimes be hard to tell, especially if the parents, or the judges involved, or both, are f*cking idiots (which, according to statistics, is 90% of the cases).

So the best way to protect children is, treating ALL parents who beat them as criminals.


No.
The best way to help children is to ignore you.


If you think so......

Well just be glad we dont know each other in Real life, judging by your posts I'd probably have to beat YOU up to teach you some things.






Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Well, I can understand him.. animal cruealty (especially towards dogs) is my berserk bottun.

Show me a movie with a dog dying and I'll cry like a baby.
Show me a movie with some guy/girl dying and I'll just shrug.


And no wonder.
The human probably deserves it. Most humans do.

Modifié par Tirigon, 18 mai 2012 - 09:43 .


#130
Tirigon

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Imperial Sentinel Arian wrote...

About punishment and its necessary, suffice to say that I was raised without any kind of it and I became an arrogant ignorant lazy teen till age 20. At that time I was in middle of University just to escape the military service and my body was horribly weak.
Thanks to the philosophy who saved my mind and body from annihilation. But It wasn't enough because I'm 9 years behind in life others the same age as me.
Yes lack of Discipline and ability to think properly, ruined my youth and my early 20s, plus added the weakness in my body.

I am a great unignorable example why genuine punishment is always necessary. Pain and sorrow is needed to teach you the essentials of life or you have to find them by yourself and it wastes too many years of your life and the regret always be with you.



People need to learn to take responsibility for their own actions. You are lazy, arrogant and "years behind" not because your parents didn't beat you but because you are lazy and arrogant, and noone but YOU is to blame.

#131
Blastback

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Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Well, I can understand him.. animal cruealty (especially towards dogs) is my berserk bottun.

Show me a movie with a dog dying and I'll cry like a baby.
Show me a movie with some guy/girl dying and I'll just shrug.

Oh so seconded.

#132
Naughty Bear

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Imperial Sentinel Arian wrote...

Naughty Bear wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Daennikus wrote...

I was walking my dog around the lake one evening and caught some kids throwing rocks at the ducks. Their dad was with them. I tell them to stop, and their dad says this:

"It's better to throw rocks at ducks than at humans."

Wow, nice parenting, a**hole.

Hopefully they never visit Yellowstone.  Throwing rocks at bison is a way to get someone killed.


I would pushed them in one by one and then throw rocks at them. See how they ****ing like it.

Thankfully, i have not seen anyone abuse animals, if i did then i will make sure my face haunts that man for the rest of his life.


Gang of 'Animal Lovers'

If a boy is beaten by a bully you would possibly do nothing, but those children deserve stoning eh?

I like to see what would you do when a wolf is tearing apart a child?

If it be against the law I would warn them not to harm the animals, but if it isn't I don't give a damn. They're not my sapient brothers anyway.

----------------------------

About punishment and its necessary, suffice to say that I was raised without any kind of it and I became an arrogant ignorant lazy teen till age 20. At that time I was in middle of University just to escape the military service and my body was horribly weak.
Thanks to the philosophy who saved my mind and body from annihilation. But It wasn't enough because I'm 9 years behind in life others the same age as me.
Yes lack of Discipline and ability to think properly, ruined my youth and my early 20s, plus added the weakness in my body.

I am a great unignorable example why genuine punishment is always necessary. Pain and sorrow is needed to teach you the essentials of life or you have to find them by yourself and it wastes too many years of your life and the regret always be with you.

Don't judge me when you know nothing of me. 1. I would help the kid, I even made a vigilante thread. I hate those who prey on the weak. The bully I will batter him, and I will kill the wolf. Where did you get the idea of me willing to help the bully or let the kid get ripped apart? **** is coming out of your mouth. If it was an animal attacking a Human without provocation, I help the Human, is the Human attacked the animal without provocation and for fun I will help the animal. If you even bothered to read my previous threads, you will know that I hate injustice and those who target the weak, innocent and vulnerable. Try again.

#133
legion999

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Blastback wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Well, I can understand him.. animal cruealty (especially towards dogs) is my berserk bottun.

Show me a movie with a dog dying and I'll cry like a baby.
Show me a movie with some guy/girl dying and I'll just shrug.

Oh so seconded.


Thirded.

#134
KBomb

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I was never punished with violence. I wasn't coddled either. I was raised to know there would be consequences to my actions. Do something noteworthy or positive, I got rewarded, do something bad or break the rules, I'd get punished. When I chose the action, I chose the consequences.


I think it was because my mother was firm and consistent. That goes a long way. I don't understand the concept that if parents don't spank their kids it must mean they are coddling or being “soft”. I was taught respect, morals and behavior, all without ever being hit. I learned it by seeing my mother exhibit all those actions at an early age and being corrected when I messed up.


Spanking alone doesn't equate to having a well behaved child. It's all the parenting in between that makes the difference. Politeness, respect for others, being truthful and having a strong moral compass are learned behaviors. Those things can be taught without fear and pain. It can be taught with positive reinforcement, consequences and more importantly, emulation.


I work with school systems and once a fellow co-worker who is a kindergarten teacher was telling me about a student who constantly used the F-bomb while playing with kids on the playground. She talked to the parents who seemed horrified and told the boy he was “getting it” when he got home. Later that month the teacher saw the parents at a baseball game where they constantly used the F-bomb. Go figure.


I am not saying spanking is abuse. However, in my opinion, corporal punishment is used as an easy fix. There are other ways of achieving a well behaved child. As soon as your child begins to understand the environment around them, the lessons begin. Those lessons through-out the early childhood process shapes them for when they become older. They learn problem solving skills from you, the parent.

#135
Naughty Bear

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However, while I have strong views on proper justice, like everyone else I can be selfish but most of the time, my motives are good. I am willing to commit horrific acts if it would save the majority. My morals change, just depends on the situation however the 'ends justify the means' and thinking logically not emotionally will always be there. I'm a pragmatic person overall and depending on how one sees me, I can be good guy or villain. Personally, I think most would see me as a villain, but my goals would be good, from my point of view at least. Like TIM: judge me by my motives and what I aim to achieve, not my methods.

Modifié par Naughty Bear, 18 mai 2012 - 12:22 .


#136
Guest_FemaleMageFan_*

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Well i grew up in africa so there most of the households used to punish children and as a result the children have a lot of respect for their parents. When i come to north america i took a walk to the stores. I saw a kid 12 years old saying "mom you are so dumb and stupid." I asked a friend of mine if it is a normal thing to do here cause i was so surprised

#137
KBomb

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FemaleMageFan wrote...

Well i grew up in africa so there most of the households used to punish children and as a result the children have a lot of respect for their parents. When i come to north america i took a walk to the stores. I saw a kid 12 years old saying "mom you are so dumb and stupid." I asked a friend of mine if it is a normal thing to do here cause i was so surprised



 
How do you know that twelve year old doesn't get spanked? Why is the first thought of a child misbehaving is, “Wow, that kid must not get spanked.” Spanking doesn't guarantee good behavior. Obviously children who get spanked misbehave on more than one occasion or else there would be no need for more spanking.
 
Also, I respected my mother greatly and she never spanked me.

#138
Naughty Bear

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FemaleMageFan wrote...

Well i grew up in africa so there most of the households used to punish children and as a result the children have a lot of respect for their parents. When i come to north america i took a walk to the stores. I saw a kid 12 years old saying "mom you are so dumb and stupid." I asked a friend of mine if it is a normal thing to do here cause i was so surprised

I have family in Africa, Kenya. Some family members came over to visit us in the UK and one of my uncles was really surprised to see people my age drinking on streets with hoodies up and smoking.

#139
Daennikus

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Imperial Sentinel Arian wrote..
Gang of 'Animal Lovers'

If a boy is beaten by a bully you would possibly do nothing, but those children deserve stoning eh?

I like to see what would you do when a wolf is tearing apart a child?

If it be against the law I would warn them not to harm the animals, but if it isn't I don't give a damn. They're not my sapient brothers anyway.

How is an animal guilty of anything? Do you attribute to wolves the ability to premeditate and murder out of a conscious emotion and resentment against humans? Are humans not at the top of the food chain already? Why wouldn't you just cast the wolf away and keep your kids safe from wolf-ridden areas? 

Kill a wolf, and you would just encourage and justify more killing for people who love to kill for fun, instead of learning to live safely with it. I haven't heard of man-eating wolves in a while, you know? It's also been a while since man has stopped killing out of necessity, and only kept doing it out of convenience.

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judge by the ways it treats its animals."
- Mahatmah Gandhi

Modifié par Daennikus, 18 mai 2012 - 02:58 .


#140
android654

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If an animal is attacking a person, 9 times out of 10, the person was molesting them moments before they attacked. Animals don't harbor intent or malice like humans do. We have the most complex societies and forms of thinking of any animal on the planet and animals have proven themselves to be much more humane than we are.

#141
Chromie

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legion999 wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Well, I can understand him.. animal cruealty (especially towards dogs) is my berserk bottun.

Show me a movie with a dog dying and I'll cry like a baby.
Show me a movie with some guy/girl dying and I'll just shrug.

Oh so seconded.


Thirded.


Lol same way. Hell just look at Mr.Soprano here.

#142
Naughty Bear

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Skelter192 wrote...

legion999 wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Well, I can understand him.. animal cruealty (especially towards dogs) is my berserk bottun.

Show me a movie with a dog dying and I'll cry like a baby.
Show me a movie with some guy/girl dying and I'll just shrug.

Oh so seconded.


Thirded.


Lol same way. Hell just look at Mr.Soprano here.


Thats a nice scene, i don't know how anyone could just attack that horse for fun or no reason at all.

#143
Megaton_Hope

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I don't think that hitting is necessary, it's discipline that's necessary. If you give your children the impression that they can walk all over you, they will do it. It offers all kinds of perks.

#144
Kaiser Arian XVII

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KBomb wrote...

FemaleMageFan wrote...

Well i grew up in africa so there most of the households used to punish children and as a result the children have a lot of respect for their parents. When i come to north america i took a walk to the stores. I saw a kid 12 years old saying "mom you are so dumb and stupid." I asked a friend of mine if it is a normal thing to do here cause i was so surprised



 
How do you know that twelve year old doesn't get spanked? Why is the first thought of a child misbehaving is, “Wow, that kid must not get spanked.” Spanking doesn't guarantee good behavior. Obviously children who get spanked misbehave on more than one occasion or else there would be no need for more spanking.
 
Also, I respected my mother greatly and she never spanked me.


Those African children learn to 'respect'. Your statement is rarely happening. Even now I don't have much respect for my parents *is not spanked*

android654 wrote...

If an animal is attacking a person, 9 times out of 10, the person was molesting them moments before they attacked. Animals don't harbor intent or malice like humans do. We have the most complex societies and forms of thinking of any animal on the planet and animals have proven themselves to be much more humane than we are.


Typical of you. Have never heard, Wolves attacking in hordes to humans or sheep? And sometimes kill for merely destruction ... The only humane act animals may do is attending to and petting their children or possibly few other creatures they might find sympathy to.

Naughty Bear wrote...

Don't judge me when you know nothing of me. 1. I would help the kid, I even made a vigilante thread. I hate those who prey on the weak. The bully I will batter him, and I will kill the wolf. Where did you get the idea of me willing to help the bully or let the kid get ripped apart? **** is coming out of your mouth. If it was an animal attacking a Human without provocation, I help the Human, is the Human attacked the animal without provocation and for fun I will help the animal. If you even bothered to read my previous threads, you will know that I hate injustice and those who target the weak, innocent and vulnerable. Try again.


Stone the child, beat the bully, slay the wolf and be silent.

#145
Kaiser Arian XVII

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Daennikus wrote...

Imperial Sentinel Arian wrote..
Gang of 'Animal Lovers'

If a boy is beaten by a bully you would possibly do nothing, but those children deserve stoning eh?

I like to see what would you do when a wolf is tearing apart a child?

If it be against the law I would warn them not to harm the animals, but if it isn't I don't give a damn. They're not my sapient brothers anyway.

How is an animal guilty of anything? Do you attribute to wolves the ability to premeditate and murder out of a conscious emotion and resentment against humans? Are humans not at the top of the food chain already? Why wouldn't you just cast the wolf away and keep your kids safe from wolf-ridden areas? 

Kill a wolf, and you would just encourage and justify more killing for people who love to kill for fun, instead of learning to live safely with it. I haven't heard of man-eating wolves in a while, you know? It's also been a while since man has stopped killing out of necessity, and only kept doing it out of convenience.

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judge by the ways it treats its animals."
- Mahatmah Gandhi


BS, even in 21th century wolves live in the hills or forests near some of the villages ... some confrontations are inevitable . I will eagerly kill the wolf and earn the Honour.
And we're not that desperate to eat wolves.


Tirigon wrote...

Imperial Sentinel Arian wrote...
About punishment and its necessary, suffice to say that I was raised without any kind of it and I became an arrogant ignorant lazy teen till age 20. At that time I was in middle of University just to escape the military service and my body was horribly weak.Thanks to the philosophy who saved my mind and body from annihilation. But It wasn't enough because I'm 9 years behind in life others the same age as me. Yes lack of Discipline and ability to think properly, ruined my youth and my early 20s, plus added the weakness in my body.
I am a great unignorable example why genuine punishment is always necessary. Pain and sorrow is needed to teach you the essentials of life or you have to find them by yourself and it wastes too many years of your life and the regret always be with you. 


People need to learn to take responsibility for their own actions. You are lazy, arrogant and "years behind" not because your parents didn't beat you but because you are lazy and arrogant, and noone but YOU is to blame.

The last person I get counsel from on earth is you. I'm almost the last in my family in being successful. I could use enough punishment in my childhood and teenhood, and I would  be provoked have a decent job and life by now, instead I try to learn something practical to 'stay alive'. Laziness and being arrogant is the outcome of 'being ignorant'. It isn't a crime, those in charge who don't awake you and explain how to live properly are responsible. I born in a liberal house, but I ended up hating it for all its carelessness for the sake of freedom.

#146
android654

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Imperial Sentinel Arian wrote...

KBomb wrote...

FemaleMageFan wrote...

Well i grew up in africa so there most of the households used to punish children and as a result the children have a lot of respect for their parents. When i come to north america i took a walk to the stores. I saw a kid 12 years old saying "mom you are so dumb and stupid." I asked a friend of mine if it is a normal thing to do here cause i was so surprised



 
How do you know that twelve year old doesn't get spanked? Why is the first thought of a child misbehaving is, “Wow, that kid must not get spanked.” Spanking doesn't guarantee good behavior. Obviously children who get spanked misbehave on more than one occasion or else there would be no need for more spanking.
 
Also, I respected my mother greatly and she never spanked me.


Those African children learn to 'respect'. Your statement is rarely happening. Even now I don't have much respect for my parents *is not spanked*

android654 wrote...

If an animal is attacking a person, 9 times out of 10, the person was molesting them moments before they attacked. Animals don't harbor intent or malice like humans do. We have the most complex societies and forms of thinking of any animal on the planet and animals have proven themselves to be much more humane than we are.


Typical of you. Have never heard, Wolves attacking in hordes to humans or sheep? And sometimes kill for merely destruction ... The only humane act animals may do is attending to and petting their children or possibly few other creatures they might find sympathy to.

Naughty Bear wrote...

Don't judge me when you know nothing of me. 1. I would help the kid, I even made a vigilante thread. I hate those who prey on the weak. The bully I will batter him, and I will kill the wolf. Where did you get the idea of me willing to help the bully or let the kid get ripped apart? **** is coming out of your mouth. If it was an animal attacking a Human without provocation, I help the Human, is the Human attacked the animal without provocation and for fun I will help the animal. If you even bothered to read my previous threads, you will know that I hate injustice and those who target the weak, innocent and vulnerable. Try again.


Stone the child, beat the bully, slay the wolf and be silent.


Are you this f*cking annoying in person?

#147
Daennikus

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Imperial Sentinel Arian wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
People need to learn to take responsibility for their own actions. You are lazy, arrogant and "years behind" not because your parents didn't beat you but because you are lazy and arrogant, and noone but YOU is to blame.

The last person I get counsel from on earth is you. I'm almost the last in my family in being successful. I could use enough punishment in my childhood and teenhood, and I would  be provoked have a decent job and life by now, instead I try to learn something practical to 'stay alive'. Laziness and being arrogant is the outcome of 'being ignorant'. It isn't a crime, those in charge who don't awake you and explain how to live properly are responsible. I born in a liberal house, but I ended up hating it for all its carelessness for the sake of freedom.

It's your negative attitude that got you where you are now. Stop blaming your environment (family, society, etc) for your failings. If you refrained from being such an antagonizing, hateful, machiavelic individual with a god complex, you'd be happier today.

#148
Vaern Sul

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And his parent saw this antagonizing, hateful, machiavelic individual with a god complex grow and they didn't give a ****, let alone lift a single finger to stop it. I see where the man's coming from.

And also :
'Ooh, you shouldn't beat kids, it doesn't work, it's awful, it's not their fault...'
'When I was a kid I wasn't beaten, so I grew up to be a lazy undisciplined bastard.'
'Your fault mate !'

#149
KBomb

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Imperial Sentinel Arian wrote...


Those African children learn to 'respect'. Your statement is rarely happening. Even now I don't have much respect for my parents *is not spanked*


 
Your statement suggests the only way to earn respect is to get it through physical means. What a ridiculous notion. It doesn't “rarely” happen. It happens everyday. People come to respect their peers, leaders, friends, interpersonal relationships, significant others, spouses, etc. All of those cases are gained without a need for violence. They are gained by and through the relationship you share with these individuals.


Parent/child respect is earned the same way. At an early age, you begin the process in the same way you'd garner respect with any other person. My mother gained respect by being someone I looked up to, by practicing and performing the very things she was teaching me. I never called her a name or cursed at her because I was afraid of getting hit. I didn't do those things because she gave me the ability and tools to solve my issues without resorting to those things. As I said, we learn how to handle and solve problems through our parents.


The fact that you do not trust your parents isn't an anthem to the situation. If you do not respect your parents, that is an issue that results from a deficiency in your relationship. Not whether you got spanked or not.

#150
Alyka

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Vaern Sul wrote...
I don't think any of us here advocate child abuse. Of course being overly violent does more harm than good, but so does no punishment at all. That's what the OP's conclusion is all about. I'd say a good education should be about mixing the two, and finding the right mix is what makes raising a child so hard.


You summed it up.

Corporal punishment doesn't ALWAYS work. Some children don't respond to it, especially if they are being hit or yelled at on a regular basis. They think to themselves (or least that's the way it seems, from what I noticed) "Oh, it doesn't matter what I do because I get hit, so I'm just going to do what I want anyways."
Too many times have I seen neighbor kids and friends siblings being yelled at constantly and the kid(s) just don't listen. This is partly (or mostly) the parents fault for not sitting down and taking the time to explain things to the child.

If there is one thing I've learned from helping to raise children, it is that they LOVE it when you explain things to them.What they DON"T like is the line "Because I said so." No reason is given along with those words, therefore, a child learns nothing except for the fact that the adult is barking orders and the child will not grasp the message or understand it's meaning.So if a little one is doing something he/she is not supposed to, then you should stop them and explain why it is wrong.Remedy the the childs behavior before it gets out of hand.
Just because children are smaller than us, it does not mean that they are dumb.They can understand some things as long as you teach them.You gotta fill their head with proper knowledge.

It seems that,the way some parents discipline their children,stems from how they themselves were disciplined and raised. So if a parent was hit all the time, they are likely to hit their child also.If a person was given complete freedom as a child, they are more likely to do the same when raising their child.Of course,then again,this is not always true.

If a child just killed an animal for no reason, then by all means the child should get their butt smack, grounded, and should go see a psychiatrist.
If a child lied about breaking something, then talk to the child,explain why it was wrong, and ground them.

When a child is punished by being given chores to do, they may grow up hating normal daily chores in their life.It's like teaching a kid that work is punishment instead of being good for them.
Instead, I believe that if something they like is taken away, they get a better understanding of the consequences to their actions.

One thing I am getting sick of seeing is parents being too scared to spank their child in public for fear of people recording it on their phones and labeling said parent as an abuser. People need to mind their own business and know when and when not to intervene.
I believe corporal punishment should be used to discipline a child, but only as a last resort.And it should not be extreme to the point where itturns into abuse.Talking with them should always come first.


And really, it all comes down to the child as an individual.
One thing will not always work. There isn't only one way to deal with an unruly child.It has to be a mixture of things; The right balance.

Modifié par Alyka, 18 mai 2012 - 10:13 .