219 réponses à ce sujet

[Volus Warlord]

Daennikus wrote...

Imperial Sentinel Arian wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
People need to learn to take responsibility for their own actions. You are lazy, arrogant and "years behind" not because your parents didn't beat you but because you are lazy and arrogant, and noone but YOU is to blame.

The last person I get counsel from on earth is you. I'm almost the last in my family in being successful. I could use enough punishment in my childhood and teenhood, and I would  be provoked have a decent job and life by now, instead I try to learn something practical to 'stay alive'. Laziness and being arrogant is the outcome of 'being ignorant'. It isn't a crime, those in charge who don't awake you and explain how to live properly are responsible. I born in a liberal house, but I ended up hating it for all its carelessness for the sake of freedom.

It's your negative attitude that got you where you are now. Stop blaming your environment (family, society, etc) for your failings. If you refrained from being such an antagonizing, hateful, machiavelic individual with a god complex, you'd be happier today.

Man, this is funny.  No, really.

"A positive attitude fixes everything!"

No, it really doesn't. Not in the slightest.

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

Imperial Sentinel Arian wrote...

KBomb wrote...

FemaleMageFan wrote...

Well i grew up in africa so there most of the households used to punish children and as a result the children have a lot of respect for their parents. When i come to north america i took a walk to the stores. I saw a kid 12 years old saying "mom you are so dumb and stupid." I asked a friend of mine if it is a normal thing to do here cause i was so surprised

 
How do you know that twelve year old doesn't get spanked? Why is the first thought of a child misbehaving is, “Wow, that kid must not get spanked.” Spanking doesn't guarantee good behavior. Obviously children who get spanked misbehave on more than one occasion or else there would be no need for more spanking.
 
Also, I respected my mother greatly and she never spanked me.

Those African children learn to 'respect'. Your statement is rarely happening. Even now I don't have much respect for my parents *is not spanked*

android654 wrote...

If an animal is attacking a person, 9 times out of 10, the person was molesting them moments before they attacked. Animals don't harbor intent or malice like humans do. We have the most complex societies and forms of thinking of any animal on the planet and animals have proven themselves to be much more humane than we are.

Typical of you. Have never heard, Wolves attacking in hordes to humans or sheep? And sometimes kill for merely destruction ... The only humane act animals may do is attending to and petting their children or possibly few other creatures they might find sympathy to.

Naughty Bear wrote...

Don't judge me when you know nothing of me. 1. I would help the kid, I even made a vigilante thread. I hate those who prey on the weak. The bully I will batter him, and I will kill the wolf. Where did you get the idea of me willing to help the bully or let the kid get ripped apart? **** is coming out of your mouth. If it was an animal attacking a Human without provocation, I help the Human, is the Human attacked the animal without provocation and for fun I will help the animal. If you even bothered to read my previous threads, you will know that I hate injustice and those who target the weak, innocent and vulnerable. Try again.

Stone the child, beat the bully, slay the wolf and be silent.

Brother Arian. I commend you for your dedication to Ultramar and the God-Emperor of Mankind.

[Blacklash93]

Volus Warlord wrote...

"A positive attitude fixes everything!"

No, it really doesn't. Not in the slightest.

Actually, people with positive attitudes and outlooks generally do sort through and deal with their problems faster and more effectively.

[Daennikus]

Alyka wrote...

You summed it up.

Corporal punishment doesn't ALWAYS work. Some children don't respond to it, especially if they are being hit or yelled at on a regular basis. They think to themselves (or least that's the way it seems, from what I noticed) "Oh, it doesn't matter what I do because I get hit, so I'm just going to do what I want anyways."
Too many times have I seen neighbor kids and friends siblings being yelled at constantly and the kid(s) just don't listen. This is partly (or mostly) the parents fault for not sitting down and taking the time to explain things to the child.

If there is one thing I've learned from helping to raise children, it is that they LOVE it when you explain things to them.What they DON"T like is the line "Because I said so." No reason is given along with those words, therefore, a child learns nothing except for the fact that the adult is barking orders and the child will not grasp the message or understand it's meaning.So if a little one is doing something he/she is not supposed to, then you should stop them and explain why it is wrong.Remedy the the childs behavior before it gets out of hand.
Just because children are smaller than us, it does not mean that they are dumb.They can understand some things as long as you teach them.You gotta fill their head with proper knowledge.

It seems that,the way some parents discipline their children,stems from how they themselves were disciplined and raised. So if a parent was hit all the time, they are likely to hit their child also.If a person was given complete freedom as a child, they are more likely to do the same when raising their child.Of course,then again,this is not always true.

If a child just killed an animal for no reason, then by all means the child should get their butt smack, grounded, and should go see a psychiatrist.
If a child lied about breaking something, then talk to the child,explain why it was wrong, and ground them.

When a child is punished by being given chores to do, they may grow up hating normal daily chores in their life.It's like teaching a kid that work is punishment instead of being good for them.
Instead, I believe that if something they like is taken away, they get a better understanding of the consequences to their actions.

One thing I am getting sick of seeing is parents being too scared to spank their child in public for fear of people recording it on their phones and labeling said parent as an abuser. People need to mind their own business and know when and when not to intervene.
I believe corporal punishment should be used to discipline a child, but only as a last resort.And it should not be extreme to the point where itturns into abuse.Talking with them should always come first.


And really, it all comes down to the child as an individual.
One thing will not always work. There isn't only one way to deal with an unruly child.It has to be a mixture of things; The right balance.

I agree with you but there's just one point there that I need to add my 2 cents to. 

Spanking a kid in public. Fine, if the punishment fits the crime, I'm thinking maybe the kid said something rude or did something mean to someone. But I see parents spanking and slapping their kids for playing around and not paying attention to what they're told ("Stay here! Grab your things! Don't touch that!")

To put thing into context: the family is going through airport security and the kids are having way too much fun with the conveyor belt, rolling their backpacks up and down instead of picking up their things. This is just an example that comes to mind. I'm not a parent, so I don't know how much "fun" one can allow a child in a stressful situation. Anyway, I keep seeing mothers and fathers spanking their kids in front of me, most of the time out of stress and fatigue. The kids start crying immediately and I don't know where to put myself since a) I'm the "mean security officer that steps on your rights and your freedoms" even though I'm pretty much a carebear, and the way someone treats their own children should be no business of mine. 

I judge people's behavior all the time... some parents have no authority over their kids. No idea why, maybe they aren't fit to be parents? Do they expect children to be small adults who will emulate their parents' attitude without question? 

Should we all become parents simply because our body allows us to breed? Should we forbid having kids to people with a low IQ?

[GodWood]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...
"A positive attitude fixes everything!"

No, it really doesn't. Not in the slightest.

Actually, people with positive attitudes and outlooks generally do sort through and deal with their problems faster and more effectively.

Being completely jaded works even better.

[Alyka]

Daennikus wrote...

I agree with you but there's just one point there that I need to add my 2 cents to. 

Spanking a kid in public. Fine, if the punishment fits the crime, I'm thinking maybe the kid said something rude or did something mean to someone. But I see parents spanking and slapping their kids for playing around and not paying attention to what they're told ("Stay here! Grab your things! Don't touch that!")

Sometimes when a child doesn't respond to talking or yelling, the next course of action is corporal punishment.

To put thing into context: the family is going through airport security and the kids are having way too much fun with the conveyor belt, rolling their backpacks up and down instead of picking up their things. This is just an example that comes to mind. I'm not a parent, so I don't know how much "fun" one can allow a child in a stressful situation. Anyway, I keep seeing mothers and fathers spanking their kids in front of me, most of the time out of stress and fatigue. The kids start crying immediately and I don't know where to put myself since a) I'm the "mean security officer that steps on your rights and your freedoms" even though I'm pretty much a carebear, and the way someone treats their own children should be no business of mine.

A child needs to learn how to act in certain situations.Not everything is all fun and games.
But, I don't think it's right when parents take their stress out on the kids and smack them for every little thing.
If something seems a bit "off", then you could ask the parents "Is everything alright?" It's a polite way to say "wtf is going on?" And then the parent might think twice and handle the situation better.
You shouldn't necessarily worry about being "the bad guy" by letting the parents know that what they or their children are doing is unacceptable.They may hate you but at least you did something about the situation.
Now if the parent is obviously abusing the child or over-disciplining them, then by all means do something about it.But you should approach the situation with caution and observe carefully before you accuse someone of a crime.

I judge people's behavior all the time... some parents have no authority over their kids. No idea why, maybe they aren't fit to be parents?

Not everyone has the patience,understanding or the necessary parenting skills to raise a child.Some people aren't "fit" to have kids, but they wind up having them anyways.Such is life.

Do they expect children to be small adults who will emulate their parents' attitude without question?

Sadly, yes. It seems that they believe the  line "Because I said so" fixes everything. Which it doesn't.

Should we all become parents simply because our body allows us to breed?

Whether or not an individual wants to have a child is completely up to them.Just because we can bear children, doesn't mean we have to.

Should we forbid having kids to people with a low IQ?

I've heard the arguement of whether or not someone with a mental disease/handicap or low IQ should have children. And you can imagine where that went; "Oh, they should have to take a test." or "People who are mentally handicapped shouldn't have any".
Noone truly knows how the child will turn out (aside from the risk of the child inheriting the same disease or handicap).  The parents might do just fine raising a child with their capabilities or they might not.There are many programs that they have access to,for new mothers and fathers along with help from social workers,counsilors, family, etc.
That being said, I think if an individual (regardless of mental capacity) truly wants to be a parent and they are capable to the extent of raising children, then they should be allowed to do so.

[Tirigon]

Volus Warlord wrote...


Man, this is funny.  No, really.

"A positive attitude fixes everything!"

No, it really doesn't. Not in the slightest.

Well, there are some things it cant fix. It wont overthrow a tyrannical government or stop a world war, and it wont cure cancer, that's sadly true.

But in your personal life it helps a lot.

[Tirigon]

Imperial Sentinel Arian wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
People need to learn to take responsibility for their own actions. You are lazy, arrogant and "years behind" not because your parents didn't beat you but because you are lazy and arrogant, and noone but YOU is to blame.

The last person I get counsel from on earth is you. I'm almost the last in my family in being successful. I could use enough punishment in my childhood and teenhood, and I would  be provoked have a decent job and life by now, instead I try to learn something practical to 'stay alive'. Laziness and being arrogant is the outcome of 'being ignorant'. It isn't a crime, those in charge who don't awake you and explain how to live properly are responsible. I born in a liberal house, but I ended up hating it for all its carelessness for the sake of freedom.

Of course, I dont beat you and , as you claim, that is the only language you understand.

But you know what? Your refusal to learn from me harms only you, not me, and since I, unlike you, believe that people are responsible for themselves that is not likely to make me sad.

[Tirigon]

Daennikus wrote...

Should we all become parents simply because our body allows us to breed? Should we forbid having kids to people with a low IQ?

That would in theory be a good idea, but it inevitably leads to killing these people "for their own sake", like the n@zis did (http://en.wikipedia....i/Nazi_eugenics , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_T4), so no, not an option.

Modifié par Tirigon, 19 mai 2012 - 11:30 .

[GodWood]

Lol Godwin.

And a silly one at that.

[Aerevane]

Vaern Sul wrote...

...So, they don't feel responsible for their acts, so we shouldn't punish them, because they apparently cannot learn lessons ?
Please tell me that's not what you're saying.

Beating a child does not make him more aware of his responsability. Are you claiming beating a kid will pace up brain development? I feel it's rather awkward to punish someone for behaviour that 'comes natural' to an underdeveloped brain; for the same reason I think psycho's should be punished differently from 'sane' people.

You can only try and do some damage control. But beating a child may only make matters worse, could cause anxiety and dishonesty. 

Modifié par Aerevane, 19 mai 2012 - 12:53 .

[Tirigon]

GodWood wrote...

Lol Godwin.

And a silly one at that.

Not at all. Forbidding stupid or handicapped people to have children, in order to "keep the race clean" was exactly what the n@zis did. That's a fact, and if you had read the links I posted instead of spitting out nonsense you would know that.

[Aerevane]

Tirigon wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Lol Godwin.

And a silly one at that.

Not at all. Forbidding stupid or handicapped people to have children, in order to "keep the race clean" was exactly what the n@zis did. That's a fact, and if you had read the links I posted instead of spitting out nonsense you would know that.

That's nonsense. No one's talking about keeping the race clean. The problem is that children of such parents are more often abused and neglected. Neglection, bad parenting and damaging behaviour during pregnancy cost society billions in terms of health care, child care and incarceration. 

[EsterCloat]

Where the hell do you people live where, now that hitting a child is considered bad by society, kids are running amok and slashing tires and assaulting civilians? I mean seriously?

[Tirigon]

Aerevane wrote...

That's nonsense. No one's talking about keeping the race clean. The problem is that children of such parents are more often abused and neglected. Neglection, bad parenting and damaging behaviour during pregnancy cost society billions in terms of health care, child care and incarceration. 

Of course, which is why I said that in theory it is a good idea.

But history has shown what can happen, and I dont trust it wont happen again.

[GodWood]

Tirigon wrote...

GodWood wrote...
Lol Godwin.

And a silly one at that.

Not at all. Forbidding stupid or handicapped people to have children, in order to "keep the race clean" was exactly what the n@zis did. That's a fact, and if you had read the links I posted instead of spitting out nonsense you would know that.

No, what's nonsense is the assumption that preventing certain people with certain handicaps from having children is for "keeping the race clean" and that doing so will inevitably lead to "killing all the handicapped people".

And lol that you think I need to read the links. Anyone who hasn't been living under a rock knows about Nazi eugenics.

EsterCloat wrote...
Where the hell do you people live where, now that hitting a child is considered bad by society, kids are running amok and slashing tires and assaulting civilians? I mean seriously?

I'm not sure what other posters are advocating but due to today's 'cushioning' of children it certainly is more difficult to discipline children.

I have friends and friends of friends who are teachers and they've all told me it's impossible to teach most kids nowadays (teenagers) simply because they're hands are tied when it comes to enforcing any kind of discipline. So much as a raised voice or a negative report on an assignment and they'll have to put up with some stupid parent.

It's quite silly really.

Modifié par GodWood, 19 mai 2012 - 01:18 .

[FaultenXIII]

As a recent psych grad I feel I can offer some insight to this thread. Corporal punishment 'CAN' have some uses in child rearing, though it is only effective when used vary sparingly. If it is used commonly and at the same intensity each time, i.e. you spank the child close to the same number of times with the same amount of force each time, then the effect of the corporal punishment begins to rapidly fade. To maintain the effectiveness of corporal punishment you must keep delivering it with an ever increasing intensity or risk loosing the effectiveness of the punishment. Now I probably don't have to spell this out for people here to see the risks of what that could mean, but for the sake of clarity I will. To keep this effective you would have to keep escalating the intensity and forcefulness of the punishment with each application, so spankings with your hand would upgrade into something like a pop from a paddle board or something similar, and it just goes up from there. Now the real trouble here is that after awhile the line between corporal punishment and abuse becomes very hard to discern.

Another point to bring up is the child's increasing age. At a young age corporal punishment can be EXTREMELY effective in establishing behavior in children. Their young minds are very impressionable so an extremely intense stimulus like corporal punishment will quickly get them to stop something, at least for the moment. However as they get older, especially in the teen years, they will be close in physical size to the parent, and if you have been doing this to them for years, you may have instilled some unintended side effects in them. First could be a sense of bitterness or aggression from being treated that way. Second could be that they no longer want to be treated like that, and right or wrong, trying to physically discipline someone who is close to your size and does not want to be is going to be pretty difficult.

So going back to point, corporal punishment can have its uses in child rearing, though it is best used sparingly.

[Tirigon]

GodWood wrote...
No, what's nonsense is the assumption that preventing certain people with certain handicaps from having children is for "keeping the race clean" and that doing so will inevitably lead to "killing all the handicapped people".

It always does, because humans are by nature assh*les.

I'm not sure what other posters are advocating but due to today's 'cushioning' of children it certainly is more difficult to discipline children.

I have friends and friends of friends who are teachers and they've all told me it's impossible to teach most kids nowadays (teenagers) simply because they're hands are tied when it comes to enforcing any kind of discipline. So much as a raised voice or a negative report on an assignment and they'll have to put up with some stupid parent.

It's quite silly really.

It's true, sadly. But everyone who says reintroducing corporal punishment would fix that (not saying you do, but others did) is blind to reality.

And then, there is also the OTHER side to consider: Many of the complains by "stupid parents" are actually valid. At least in some courses, mostly language ones and the likes of religion,  marks are completely unrelated  to the pupil's performance and depent solely on whether or not the teacher likes you.

[Joy Divison]

GodWood wrote...

Lol Godwin.

And a silly one at that.

I disagree.  It's not silly.  It was the logical conclusion of a rationale policy.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 19 mai 2012 - 01:30 .

[EsterCloat]

GodWood wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...
Where the hell do you people live where, now that hitting a child is considered bad by society, kids are running amok and slashing tires and assaulting civilians? I mean seriously?

I'm not sure what other posters are advocating but due to today's 'cushioning' of children it certainly is more difficult to discipline children.

I have friends and friends of friends who are teachers and they've all told me it's impossible to teach most kids nowadays (teenagers) simply because they're hands are tied when it comes to enforcing any kind of discipline. So much as a raised voice or a negative report on an assignment and they'll have to put up with some stupid parent.

It's quite silly really.

Yeah, I graduated from high school this last decade and I've never really seen a problem that made a teacher want to hit a student or yell at them. My parents never hit me or threatened to and I never made problems for anyone. None of the other students I went to high school with ever seemed like rowdy undisciplined little jerks, save for the occasional problem teen that every school has. When class started, everyone just sat there and listened to the lecture(or at least didn't make a racket while they doodled or whatever) and did their work.

From my neck of the woods, teens are just respectful to teachers and parents and the disrespectful ones are the minority. Unless you're telling me that teens have changed how they act in the last 3-5 years, which I doubt since my brother who is still in high school can attest to the same thing I have.

Same thing when I was in elementary and middle school.

Modifié par EsterCloat, 19 mai 2012 - 01:35 .

[Aerevane]

EsterCloat wrote...

Where the hell do you people live where, now that hitting a child is considered bad by society, kids are running amok and slashing tires and assaulting civilians? I mean seriously?

That doesn't have to do with not hitting your child, but - in my opinion - the fact that we raise our childeren as little princes and princesses without any moral values. We're all getting Nietzsche's childeren!

[Affrayer]

Aerevane wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Lol Godwin.

And a silly one at that.

Not at all. Forbidding stupid or handicapped people to have children, in order to "keep the race clean" was exactly what the n@zis did. That's a fact, and if you had read the links I posted instead of spitting out nonsense you would know that.

That's nonsense. No one's talking about keeping the race clean. The problem is that children of such parents are more often abused and neglected. Neglection, bad parenting and damaging behaviour during pregnancy cost society billions in terms of health care, child care and incarceration. 

Are you saying children of said people are burdens on society?

[Affrayer]

Tirigon wrote...

Daennikus wrote...

Should we all become parents simply because our body allows us to breed? Should we forbid having kids to people with a low IQ?

That would in theory be a good idea, but it inevitably leads to killing these people "for their own sake", like the n@zis did (http://en.wikipedia....i/Nazi_eugenics , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_T4), so no, not an option.

There was this quote I saw somewhere.......eh, doesn't matter where. It goes like this: "Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves."  Even if they weren't killed, I think it's still wrong to deny someone their rights. Sounds like you want to setup a caste system. What would you name your country?

[TJPags]

Daennikus wrote...

I agree with you but there's just one point there that I need to add my 2 cents to. 

Spanking a kid in public. Fine, if the punishment fits the crime, I'm thinking maybe the kid said something rude or did something mean to someone. But I see parents spanking and slapping their kids for playing around and not paying attention to what they're told ("Stay here! Grab your things! Don't touch that!")

To put thing into context: the family is going through airport security and the kids are having way too much fun with the conveyor belt, rolling their backpacks up and down instead of picking up their things. This is just an example that comes to mind. I'm not a parent, so I don't know how much "fun" one can allow a child in a stressful situation. Anyway, I keep seeing mothers and fathers spanking their kids in front of me, most of the time out of stress and fatigue. The kids start crying immediately and I don't know where to put myself since a) I'm the "mean security officer that steps on your rights and your freedoms" even though I'm pretty much a carebear, and the way someone treats their own children should be no business of mine. 

I judge people's behavior all the time... some parents have no authority over their kids. No idea why, maybe they aren't fit to be parents? Do they expect children to be small adults who will emulate their parents' attitude without question? 

Should we all become parents simply because our body allows us to breed? Should we forbid having kids to people with a low IQ?

See, this is, I think, where the issue comes in.

The kids are running around, playing with the conveyor belt, etc., not listening, not paying attention, in short, not behaving appropriately in a public situation.  Then the parents hit the kids.

The problem is, to me, the first part  - the kids not behaving.  How did that come about?  I know this, I'd never have gotten away with behaving like that as a child.  My parents would have cut me off on that crap the minute I started it, telling me to stop, explaining it was not the place to do it.  And yes, those instructions were backed with the knowledge that I'd get a smack on my butt if I didn't listen.  And maybe, as a young child, it was the threat of violence that maybe kept me in line.  But as I got older, it was the understanding of how to behave in different situations (ie, I can run in the yard, or in my house, but not in someone else's house).

Parents who permit things at one point, and then seek to stop it, are the problem.  You can't allow a kid to run wild in public 90% of the time, then tell them no.  That's inconsistent, and it doesn't surprise me that the kids don't listen.  These are the parents who over-react physically.  A parent who is consistent in their discipline, whether that's a spanking or a time out or a talking to, gets better results.

[Volus Warlord]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

"A positive attitude fixes everything!"

No, it really doesn't. Not in the slightest.

Actually, people with positive attitudes and outlooks generally do sort through and deal with their problems faster and more effectively.

Or just ignore them till they blow up in their faces and say what a shame.