219 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Tirigon wrote...
If you think so......

Well just be glad we dont know each other in Real life, judging by your posts I'd probably have to beat YOU up to teach you some things.

That's some seriously poor impulse control there mate....

[Lotion Soronarr]

Tirigon wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Lol Godwin.

And a silly one at that.

Not at all. Forbidding stupid or handicapped people to have children, in order to "keep the race clean" was exactly what the n@zis did. That's a fact, and if you had read the links I posted instead of spitting out nonsense you would know that.

And if you rubbed two brain cells together, youd not that it does not "ineviatebly lead" to becoming a natzi.

That entire statment was beyond redicolous. I know you can't see it by I'm rolling my eyes here...and smirking.

A while earielr you said you'd have to beat me. That inevitabely would lead to you becoming a huge abuser. INEVITABLY. Because I said so.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Affrayer wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

That would in theory be a good idea, but it inevitably leads to killing these people "for their own sake", like the n@zis did (http://en.wikipedia....i/Nazi_eugenics , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_T4), so no, not an option.

There was this quote I saw somewhere.......eh, doesn't matter where. It goes like this: "Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves."  Even if they weren't killed, I think it's still wrong to deny someone their rights. Sounds like you want to setup a caste system. What would you name your country?

CommonSensania?

Seriously, what is it with this redicolous train of thought.
Humanity as a whole and countries individualy deny specific freedom to individuals all the time.

What do you think Child Services do?
Or prisons?

There is no ultimate freedom. Freedom ins't intrinsic, nor are any rights. You don't "have" any rights. You are given rights.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 21 mai 2012 - 08:06 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Tirigon wrote...

Affrayer wrote...

There was this quote I saw somewhere.......eh, doesn't matter where. It goes like this: "Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves."  Even if they weren't killed, I think it's still wrong to deny someone their rights. Sounds like you want to setup a caste system. What would you name your country?

Caste system? No, where do you get this idea.

All I want is save children from having to suffer bad parents.

That's easily done - don't have children.


ZING!

[Lotion Soronarr]

KBomb wrote...
She said, and I paraphrase, that in theory keeping people who are not emotionally or intellectually equipped o raise children from doing so may seem like a good idea, but that in practice it is unethical.

So it's ethical for the children to suffer so the parents can get their jollies?

No.
Frak no.
A million times no.

[Blacklash93]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

"A positive attitude fixes everything!"

No, it really doesn't. Not in the slightest.

Actually, people with positive attitudes and outlooks generally do sort through and deal with their problems faster and more effectively.

Or just ignore them till they blow up in their faces and say what a shame. 

Irresponsible people, negative or positive or anything in between, don't get anything (or at least very little) done about their issues.

And FYI, research shows that optimists tend to have better physical heath, more satisfying relationships, and more success in school and work. Sounds to me that they tend to be more responsible with their lives.

[Daennikus]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Irresponsible people, negative or positive or anything in between, don't get anything (or at least very little) done about their issues.

And FYI, research shows that optimists tend to have better physical heath, more satisfying relationships, and more success in school and work. Sounds to me that they tend to be more responsible with their lives.

And to bounce back on topic, since I was the one that brought up this "positive attitude" thing, it has everything to do with parental education. In my case, I was taught to always work hard and focus on what I wanted, never to envy others and never take things for granted. It was a "tough" education even though my parents never laid a hand on me: the rules were strict, consistent and I knew exactly what I could or couldn't do because "you can't survive in the world without these rules." I was taught not to feel proud of my pathetic little achievements, but to keep on working and getting better at them. Others things my mother told me still feel like bordering on psychological abuse But it was for the best.

Nowadays, in real life, I look at people in their twenties and I'm amazed at how impolite and disrespectful they are. I work alongside people who grew up in the "hood".  They don't know how to express themselves to the public and clients, it's always in a form of complaint or protest. When they're asked an explanation or a simple advice, they have to make the other person feel stupid for not knowing. Were they smothered like that as kids? Is it a language barrier issue? Is it because they didn't go to college/university? It seems to me that these kids were treated as inferiors in their home, and they lash out now they're in "power" in the workplace. Everything is about dominance, and making others feel miserable. 

Once this confrontational behavior has been instilled in a child's mind, there's no going back. And it's hard to be productive for one's life if everything is about enforcing one's superiority over others. Once they're left all alone, it's the need for domination that makes these individuals lack initiative for their own life decisions. You can be a negative person, and we're all unhappy about life once in a while, but look at yourself again and admit that you're not completely helpless, that not everything is obviously someone else's fault. 

[Aerevane]

Affrayer wrote...

Aerevane wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Lol Godwin.

And a silly one at that.

Not at all. Forbidding stupid or handicapped people to have children, in order to "keep the race clean" was exactly what the n@zis did. That's a fact, and if you had read the links I posted instead of spitting out nonsense you would know that.

That's nonsense. No one's talking about keeping the race clean. The problem is that children of such parents are more often abused and neglected. Neglection, bad parenting and damaging behaviour during pregnancy cost society billions in terms of health care, child care and incarceration. 

Are you saying children of said people are burdens on society?

No, such childeren have a higher chance of being so.

[Aerevane]

Sajji wrote...

Look how great the children of today are. Spoiled, disrespectful, violent and entitled. Didn't take long for the know it alls to screw society up. I'm not even going to enter in any more argumentation over this. I mean, all I had to do was dispell reality.

Don't be surprised if you ever confront somebody on the way they're parenting and receive massive backlash, a nasty glare and an "Excuse me, who the hell are you?"

Are they much different from the generations before them? Look at the break away in the '50's and '60's of childeren. Were they not disrespectful? A lot of parents leave a lot to be desired, but spanking is not among them. I do not see how spanking will make childeren more responsible, respectful and so on. Their brains haven't fully developed - like you can't blame a young puppy for peeing over your carpet. Enforcing punishments instead of rewarding good behaviour in general breeds fearful, secretive and dishonest dogs. Rewarding good behaviour will more likely create a dog that behaves, but still remains playful, happy and joyful.

Why hit a dog (or a child) then? Both do not have the mental capacities (yet, in case of the child) to make full moral judgements (although apes and little childeren do very early on show moral behaviour - like sharing, caring and so on).

Sajji wrote...



Brilliant ideology...

 

Forbidding spanking isn't an ideology. It's proven in dozens of researches that spanking creates childeren with more social problems than childeren that haven't been subjected to physical abuse (and I count spanking among them). I think that if you find something amiss in todays society's next generation, you should look more towards the 'Atlas Shrugged' mentality (nasty individualism - the Nietszchean ubermensch that childeren these days get raised to) that you find among people, than the fact that people don't spank their childeren anymore.

Modifié par Aerevane, 21 mai 2012 - 10:34 .

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

I don't have children yet but I fully support batty smacking. Ever since my parents stopped I've been too naughty for my own good. Where is this petition?

[KBomb]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

KBomb wrote...
She said, and I paraphrase, that in theory keeping people who are not emotionally or intellectually equipped o raise children from doing so may seem like a good idea, but that in practice it is unethical.

So it's ethical for the children to suffer so the parents can get their jollies?

No.
Frak no.
A million times no.

 
Yeah, well I didn't offer my opinion on this theory and I probably won't. I was explaining the point of view for someone else.

[Tirigon]

KBomb wrote...

Affrayer wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Caste system? No, where do you get this idea.

*Points to page 7 where you said keeping stupid people from breeding would be a good idea*

I don't see where she said “Keeping stupid people from having children is a good idea.”


She said, and I paraphrase, that in theory keeping people who are not emotionally or intellectually equipped o raise children from doing so may seem like a good idea, but that in practice it is unethical.


What she means that on the outside, it may seem like a good idea, but not one she'd support. She also said it was not an option for ethical reasons. She was more or less arguing the semantics of the theory.


It was someone else who said that it would be a good practice. You obviously misunderstood the exchange.

Exactly, thanks for pointing that out (though it's "he", dont let my avatar fool you:P).

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
If you think so......

Well
just be glad we dont know each other in Real life, judging by your
posts I'd probably have to beat YOU up to teach you some things.

That's some seriously poor impulse control there mate....

Not at all. Just trying to go down on your level, you are the one who argued in favor of violence as a method of education.

Or are you one of those hypocrites who would not taste their own medicine?

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And if you rubbed two brain cells together, youd not that it does not "ineviatebly lead" to becoming a natzi.

You probly wouldnt yell "Heil hitler", true. But if you act like one, does that make a difference? i think not.

A
while earielr you said you'd have to beat me. That inevitabely would
lead to you becoming a huge abuser. INEVITABLY. Because I said so.

Only if you admit that I am right. As long as you stand by your point, however, it would only make me a good teacher
[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/policeman.png[/smilie]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

That's easily done - don't have children.


[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie] ZING! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

I dont intend to, but sadly that wont fix matters for the children of people like you.

Right back at ya, honey

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

So it's ethical for the children to suffer so the parents can get their jollies?

No.
Frak no.
A million times no.

(Ironically, you have now adopted my point that beating is bad.^^)


Of course not, that is why I believe abuse must be stopped. but the problem is, unless you happen to be god you wont know if someone will be a good or bad parent.

Yes, you can assume that someone who is a f*cking idiot will probably not be a good parent.

But limiting people's freedom on a mere assumption, however sensible, is... problematical. To put it lightly.

[Tirigon]

Aerevane wrote...

I think that if you find something amiss in todays society's next generation, you should look more towards the 'Atlas Shrugged' mentality (nasty individualism - the Nietszchean ubermensch that childeren these days get raised to) that you find among people, than the fact that people don't spank their childeren anymore.

That is not true. If you believe to be better than everyone else you need to be a good person, or you are lying to yourself.

[Volus Warlord]

Not terribly related.. but

HOLY ****! There's some parenting for you.

[KBomb]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Not terribly related.. but

HOLY ****! There's some parenting for you.

Jesus. Why would he think that was remotely funny? What if the attendant hadn't been there? Idiots.

[Clover Rider]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Not terribly related.. but

HOLY ****! There's some parenting for you.

That was a very stupid thing to do. Thank goodness the kid was alright after that.

Modifié par Some Geth, 22 mai 2012 - 03:17 .

[Chromie]

Calm down guys he was just taking the kid a bath.

[KBomb]

Skelter192 wrote...

Calm down guys he was just taking the kid a bath.

Extreme Cleansing.

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]Tirigon wrote...
[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]Tirigon wrote...
If you think so......

Well
just be glad we dont know each other in Real life, judging by your
posts I'd probably have to beat YOU up to teach you some things.
[/quote]

That's some seriously poor impulse control there mate....

[/quote]

Not at all. Just trying to go down on your level, you are the one who argued in favor of violence as a method of education.

Or are you one of those hypocrites who would not taste their own medicine?[/quote]

I have no need for any medicine..especially not from you.
Education? You're as transparent as glass.


[quote]
[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And if you rubbed two brain cells together, youd not that it does not "ineviatebly lead" to becoming a natzi.[/quote]
You probly wouldnt yell "Heil hitler", true. But if you act like one, does that make a difference? i think not.[/quote]

Except you don't. You're extrapolating into extreems. A strawman looks like a solid steel construct compared to your statement.




[quote][quote]
A while earielr you said you'd have to beat me. That inevitabely would
lead to you becoming a huge abuser. INEVITABLY. Because I said so.
[/quote]

Only if you admit that I am right. As long as you stand by your point, however, it would only make me a good teacher
[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/policeman.png[/smilie]
[/quote]

Nope. You knopw why? Because "X will happen because I say so" is not a valid argument. Never was. And that's exactly what you are using.
Do X and you will eventualyl become a natzi is utterly flawed into the extreeme.

It's liek saying "if you ever steal anything..EVER - your'e going to becoem a hardened criminal on death row."


[quote]
[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

That's easily done - don't have children.

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie] ZING! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

[/quote]

I dont intend to, but sadly that wont fix matters for the children of people like you.[/quote]

You don't intened to have children? One vicory for evolution!

I for one intend ot pass my SUPERIOR genes onto the enxt generation.





[quote]
[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
So it's ethical for the children to suffer so the parents can get their jollies?

No.
Frak no.
A million times no.

[/quote]
(Ironically, you have now adopted my point that beating is bad.^^)[/quote]

Nope.


[quote]
Yes, you can assume that someone who is a f*cking idiot will probably not be a good parent.
But limiting people's freedom on a mere assumption, however sensible, is... problematical. To put it lightly.
[/quote]

And yet it's being done. And yet that's what you yourself are calling for when you want to make any kind of corporal punishment a crime.

[Tirigon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I have no need for any medicine..especially not from you.
Education? You're as transparent as glass.

I have barely ever met anyone who needs it more.

Except you don't. You're extrapolating into extreems. A strawman looks like a solid steel construct compared to your statement.

Forced sterilizing of people you think should not breed is exactly what they did. The only difference is the criteria for who shouldn't.

Nope. You knopw why? Because "X will happen because I say so" is not a valid argument. Never was. And that's exactly what you are using.
Do X and you will eventualyl become a natzi is utterly flawed into the extreeme.

It's liek saying "if you ever steal anything..EVER - your'e going to becoem a hardened criminal on death row."

No, it's like saying "if you ever murder an entire family you will become a hardened criminal on death row". Which is exactly what happens, if you live in a state with death sentence.

You don't intened to have children? One vicory for evolution!

Nope, a loss. But I dont care much for human evolution because the entire species is f*cked anyways.

I for one intend ot pass my SUPERIOR genes onto the enxt generation.

A high self-esteem is a good thing to have, even if it is entirely undeserved.

(Ironically, you have now adopted my point that beating is bad.^^)

Nope.

My point: Children must be protected from abuse, therefore some parental freedoms must be restricted.
Yours: Children shouldnt suffer from abuse just to grant parents freedom.

Seems like the same thing to me.

Yes, you can assume that someone who is a f*cking idiot will probably not be a good parent.
But limiting people's freedom on a mere assumption, however sensible, is... problematical. To put it lightly.

And yet it's being done.

True, sadly. Lots of bad things are done. No reason to do more bad just for the sake of it.

And yet that's what you yourself are calling for when you want to make any kind of corporal punishment a crime.

No, because I am calling for punishing the deed, not the assumption it might perhaps happen some time.