587 réponses à ce sujet

[BigGuy28]

balance5050 wrote...

BigGuy28 wrote...

leeboi2 wrote...

The title of this thread makes no sense, just putting that out there.

It doesn't have to make sense! Indoctrination!

 

You're the one thats all for space magic not me.

[balance5050]

BigGuy28 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

BigGuy28 wrote...

leeboi2 wrote...

The title of this thread makes no sense, just putting that out there.

It doesn't have to make sense! Indoctrination!

 

You're the one thats all for space magic not me.

[Ageless Face]

estebanus wrote...

I still don't see how "your choices matter" is the same as "every goddamn choice you made is the damn right one."

Look,
you say you want Shepard to have an heroic death, right? Well, if that
is the case, then control is not for you, even if taken at face-value.

You want to know why?

Because you're dead. And you died for nothing.

Shepard cannot control the reapers, because s/he is dead. Get it?

If Shepard can control the reapers, then s/he is not dead, s/he has been doomed to eternal existence. Doesn't this also screw over Shepard's storyline?

In the case of the script, Shepard can still save the galaxy at the cost of his/her own life. But only if you made the right choices. If you din't then you die. And you know what? You deserve it.

You fell under the reapers' spell. At least you can still save the galaxy, although be it at the cost of your own life.

How is this not a heroic death? Because it's one of your friends that kills you? Well, if that's the case, I don't think that you understand the premise of what a heroic death actually is. It is when you sacrifice yourself to save someone else. If your sacrifice makes the difference between life and death everywhere.

THAT is what a heroic death is.

The catalyst is, again, a ghost. Means he is dead. If he is dead, and can control the reaper, why not Shepard?

Your point about Shepard's life being screwed anyway is true, I admit. I'd rather Shepard to die while saving everyone else, but it does seem to good to be true.

But the script is adding an insult to injury. Not only you're not controlling the reapers and save everyone, you are also indoctrinated , and on top of that, one of Shepard's best friends is killing her/him, when the end choice in the script could have ended with the rachni queen saving Shepard (or not). Adding the indoctrination to it was relevant...Why?

[Wabajakka]

Title makes sense, it's just incorrectly worded.

[Ageless Face]

Orange Tee wrote...

Title makes sense, it's just incorrectly worded.

Sorry, i hope it's now spelled correctly.

[kookie28]

HagarIshay wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

Title makes sense, it's just incorrectly worded.

Sorry, i hope it's now spelled correctly.

I think you were going for egotistical.

[dreman9999]

HagarIshay wrote...

estebanus wrote...

I still don't see how "your choices matter" is the same as "every goddamn choice you made is the damn right one."

Look,
you say you want Shepard to have an heroic death, right? Well, if that
is the case, then control is not for you, even if taken at face-value.

You want to know why?

Because you're dead. And you died for nothing.

Shepard cannot control the reapers, because s/he is dead. Get it?

If Shepard can control the reapers, then s/he is not dead, s/he has been doomed to eternal existence. Doesn't this also screw over Shepard's storyline?

In the case of the script, Shepard can still save the galaxy at the cost of his/her own life. But only if you made the right choices. If you din't then you die. And you know what? You deserve it.

You fell under the reapers' spell. At least you can still save the galaxy, although be it at the cost of your own life.

How is this not a heroic death? Because it's one of your friends that kills you? Well, if that's the case, I don't think that you understand the premise of what a heroic death actually is. It is when you sacrifice yourself to save someone else. If your sacrifice makes the difference between life and death everywhere.

THAT is what a heroic death is.

The catalyst is, again, a ghost. Means he is dead. If he is dead, and can control the reaper, why not Shepard?

Your point about Shepard's life being screwed anyway is true, I admit. I'd rather Shepard to die while saving everyone else, but it does seem to good to be true.

But the script is adding an insult to injury. Not only you're not controlling the reapers and save everyone, you are also indoctrinated , and on top of that, one of Shepard's best friends is killing her/him, when the end choice in the script could have ended with the rachni queen saving Shepard (or not). Adding the indoctrination to it was relevant...Why?

What did I just read.....How is he a ghost?
Also, picking the other 2 choicesis not saving everyone. It's letting the reapers take control. You just want to be at bliss with the choice you made. You don't want to think you picked the wrong choice.  This is nothing to do with which is right or wrong...It just you wanting to be in blissful ignorance.

Modifié par dreman9999, 19 mai 2012 - 07:04 .

[Ageless Face]

kookie28 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

Title makes sense, it's just incorrectly worded.

Sorry, i hope it's now spelled correctly.

I think you were going for egotistical.

Man, english can be so annyoing...

Thanks for the correction, though.

dreman9999 wrote... What didI just read.....How is he a ghost?
Also, pickingthe other 2 choicesis not saving everyone. It's letting the reapers take control. You just want to beatbliss with the choice you made. You don't want to think you picked the wrong choice.  This is nothing to do with which is rightor wrong...It just you wanting to be in blissful ignorance.

 

He looks like a ghost, talks like a ghost, he is a ghost. At least until the EC will prove otherwise.

Why am I being ignorant? I don't want my choice to be right, I want it to make sense and not be bad as well as not being good. But if destroy means to be the right choice then my choice is wrong. How is that fair?

Modifié par HagarIshay, 19 mai 2012 - 07:06 .

[pro5]

HagarIshay wrote...

Resentment to the choices of control or synthesis because of a moral question, that I will understand. But most of the time it doesn't seem this way. You simply dissmissing the choices to make your points the correct ones. And that is wrong.

This video describes how control and synthesis are actually ideas promoted by the Reapers throughout the ME series:
http://social.biowar.../index/11799672

Sorry, but I can't agree with you that not wanting to surrender to the Reapers is being *egotistical* on our part.

[Clayless]

pro5 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Resentment to the choices of control or synthesis because of a moral question, that I will understand. But most of the time it doesn't seem this way. You simply dissmissing the choices to make your points the correct ones. And that is wrong.

This video describes how control and synthesis are actually ideas promoted by the Reapers throughout the ME series:
http://social.biowar.../index/11799672

Sorry, but I can't agree with you that not wanting to surrender to the Reapers is being *egotistical* on our part.

This is where my "both sides talking about 2 completely different things" has come into play. Notice how this guy here talks about IT like it's fact? If one side is talking about the ending and the other about the IT then it's going to lead to a stalemate as each side only has vague similarities in the things they are talking about.

[dreman9999]

HagarIshay wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Orange Tee wrote...

Title makes sense, it's just incorrectly worded.

Sorry, i hope it's now spelled correctly.

I think you were going for egotistical.

Man, english can be so annyoing...

Thanks for the correction, though.

dreman9999 wrote... What didI just read.....How is he a ghost?
Also, pickingthe other 2 choicesis not saving everyone. It's letting the reapers take control. You just want to beatbliss with the choice you made. You don't want to think you picked the wrong choice.  This is nothing to do with which is rightor wrong...It just you wanting to be in blissful ignorance.

 

He looks like a ghost, talks like a ghost, he is a ghost. At least until the EC will prove otherwise.

Why am I being ignorant? I don't want my choice to be right, I want it to make sense and not be bad as well as not being good. But if destroy means to be the right choice then my choice is wrong. How is that fair?

You do know whataholigrafic progection is? Right? Or it can be all in Shepards head.
Not a ghost. Do try to say it is.

And you are being ignorant, you "want" you choice to be right but no considering if it not the right choice. You missing the fact that these choices lead to reaper control on way or another...You missing the fact thesevague eplination to how the choices work for control and Synthesis leaves open so much veraity of results. It not that you want to think your right, you just don'r want to think you're wrong.

[dreman9999]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

pro5 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Resentment to the choices of control or synthesis because of a moral question, that I will understand. But most of the time it doesn't seem this way. You simply dissmissing the choices to make your points the correct ones. And that is wrong.

This video describes how control and synthesis are actually ideas promoted by the Reapers throughout the ME series:
http://social.biowar.../index/11799672

Sorry, but I can't agree with you that not wanting to surrender to the Reapers is being *egotistical* on our part.

This is where my "both sides talking about 2 completely different things" has come into play. Notice how this guy here talks about IT like it's fact? If one side is talking about the ending and the other about the IT then it's going to lead to a stalemate as each side only has vague similarities in the things they are talking about.

Ignore the partof IT. That video can still be look at in away that the ending is real. It still has strong points ageinst control and synthesis.

[Bill Casey]

HagarIshay wrote...

Why am I being ignorant? I don't want my choice to be right, I want it to make sense and not be bad as well as not being good. But if destroy means to be the right choice then my choice is wrong. How is that fair?

Because you completely ignored what the rest of the series was telling you...
If Bioware also ignores everything and rewards you, you don't deserve it...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 19 mai 2012 - 07:34 .

[Ieldra]

pro5 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Resentment to the choices of control or synthesis because of a moral question, that I will understand. But most of the time it doesn't seem this way. You simply dissmissing the choices to make your points the correct ones. And that is wrong.

This video describes how control and synthesis are actually ideas promoted by the Reapers throughout the ME series:
http://social.biowar.../index/11799672

Sorry, but I can't agree with you that not wanting to surrender to the Reapers is being *egotistical* on our part.

That video is a fan interpretation. We do not share its "conclusions". To lobby to enshrine your interpretation as canonical, disregarding those who make their choice based on a different interpretation, is egotistical. And intolerant.

All three options end the Reaper threat. That's a fact. The game tells you this on a meta level. While this is admittedly not the best way to tell you all the endings are "good" endings, that doesn't change the result. Interpretations that postulate any of the choices are "what the Reapers" are pretty much invalid.

Also, I don't know why it is so important to people like you to invalidate other peoples' choices. Is it ideological intolerance? Or is it just malice?

[Bill Casey]

Because it turns the series into a broken aesop...

[dreman9999]

Ieldra2 wrote...

pro5 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Resentment to the choices of control or synthesis because of a moral question, that I will understand. But most of the time it doesn't seem this way. You simply dissmissing the choices to make your points the correct ones. And that is wrong.

This video describes how control and synthesis are actually ideas promoted by the Reapers throughout the ME series:
http://social.biowar.../index/11799672

Sorry, but I can't agree with you that not wanting to surrender to the Reapers is being *egotistical* on our part.

That video is a fan interpretation. We do not share its "conclusions". To lobby to enshrine your interpretation as canonical, disregarding those who make their choice based on a different interpretation, is egotistical. And intolerant.

All three options end the Reaper threat. That's a fact. The game tells you this on a meta level. While this is admittedly not the best way to tell you all the endings are "good" endings, that doesn't change the result. Interpretations that postulate any of the choices are "what the Reapers" are pretty much invalid.

Also, I don't know why it is so important to people like you to invalidate other peoples' choices. Is it ideological intolerance? Or is it just malice?

The video is a scaling of point made through out the series. Say it fanmade does not degrade it's point or findings. This is from the plot and nothing in the plot supports anything the star kid is telling us. Which is something pro-synthdon't see. Nothing in the plot supports their claims.

[dreman9999]

Ieldra2 wrote...

pro5 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Resentment to the choices of control or synthesis because of a moral question, that I will understand. But most of the time it doesn't seem this way. You simply dissmissing the choices to make your points the correct ones. And that is wrong.

This video describes how control and synthesis are actually ideas promoted by the Reapers throughout the ME series:
http://social.biowar.../index/11799672

Sorry, but I can't agree with you that not wanting to surrender to the Reapers is being *egotistical* on our part.

Also, I don't know why it is so important to people like you to invalidate other peoples' choices. Is it ideological intolerance? Or is it just malice?

It's a question of logic. How can anyone understand why anyon would straght up beleive the starchild? You have no doubt about what he says?

[Hadeedak]

Bill Casey wrote...

Because it turns the series into a broken aesop...

I still don't think the moral of the series was "NO COMPROMISE, NO ADAPTING, ONLY SLAUGHTER ENDS YOUR PROBLEMS." But that's just me. >>

[Bill Casey]

You are listening to the reaper king and accepting things people were brainwashed into believing...

[Hadeedak]

If you're taking him literally -- and if you're not, we have no moral to the story because we have no conclusion -- he remarks the Crucible created new possibilities. Which Shepard adapts to. Some Shepards may prefer the desperate gambit to blowing up the relays and genocide, and risk it all on control. Some Shepards may prefer the pragmatic, ruthless, and final destroy. And some might embrace the hope inherent in synthesis.

And that's what I think is the beauty of the literal endings -- that there's 3, good and bad in separate ways, with no one ending being the perfect ending. THAT is so Mass Effect for me. Multiple ways to solve a problem, with different meanings, and ultimately elegant.

Of course, it choked in the pacing hardcore. But I don't have trouble seeing the potential. To quote the guy you seem convinced I love, "I wish you could see it like I do, Bill. It's so ... perfect."

Never really liked TIM, to be honest. But that line made up for 2 games of wanting to shoot him in his stupid bossy face. (Because I did). Saren was more my speed.

[Ageless Face]

dreman9999 wrote...

You do know whataholigrafic progection is? Right? Or it can be all in Shepards head.
Not a ghost. Do try to say it is.

And you are being ignorant, you "want" you choice to be right but no considering if it not the right choice. You missing the fact that these choices lead to reaper control on way or another...You missing the fact thesevague eplination to how the choices work for control and Synthesis leaves open so much veraity of results. It not that you want to think your right, you just don'r want to think you're wrong.

Why would it be a hologram? If this is a hologram, then where is the actual catalyst? He says it is home or whatever. 

Even if the catalyst is in his head, it does not mean I Sheprad is indoctrinated. Just that s/he is hurt and hallucination because of blood loss. It's making a little more sense.

I don't want my choice to be right. I want it to be right for me. Meaning, I want to have numerous choices, and I, the player, will get to pick which one I believe is the best choice for the galaxy of ME to continue. IT will not give me this option. And it's funny how you insist of taking the most important choice in this game from the player. If anything, we should have gotten more choices. Not less. 

Modifié par HagarIshay, 19 mai 2012 - 07:55 .

[dreman9999]

Hadeedak wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Because it turns the series into a broken aesop...

I still don't think the moral of the series was "NO COMPROMISE, NO ADAPTING, ONLY SLAUGHTER ENDS YOUR PROBLEMS." But that's just me. >>

What happen to the reat of the story...To Tuchanka, to rennoch. Both those stories wereabout uniting and working together solve a problem. You think not comprimizing with an absolut relentless arragent force like the reapers means "Only slaughter solves your problems"?  You notunderstand that there are thing you can't comprimize with in the world. Thing thatwill just destory you for being. These things and people you can't cpmprimise with you fight back. It is not about destroying and enemy when  a door of comprimiseis open, this is about destroying an enemy the at never will stop trying to impose it's will on you untill they are destroyed. That is what it's about. The star child offers are just new way to impose orderon you and orgainics...And you think you need to comprimise with that? No.....We fight to make our own furture. The reapers can go to hell if they thing they can force us to do any thing.

[dreman9999]

HagarIshay wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

You do know whataholigrafic progection is? Right? Or it can be all in Shepards head.
Not a ghost. Do try to say it is.

And you are being ignorant, you "want" you choice to be right but no considering if it not the right choice. You missing the fact that these choices lead to reaper control on way or another...You missing the fact thesevague eplination to how the choices work for control and Synthesis leaves open so much veraity of results. It not that you want to think your right, you just don'r want to think you're wrong.

Why would it be a hologram? If this is a hologram, then where is the actual catalyst? He says it is home or whatever. 

Even if the catalyst is in his head, it does not mean I Sheprad is indoctrinated. Just that s/he is hurt and hallucination because of blood loss. It's making a little more sense.

I don't want my choice to be right. I want it to be right for me. Meaning, I want to have numerous choices, and I, the player, will get to pick which one I believe is the best choice for the galaxy of ME to continue. IT will not give me this option. And it's funny how you insist of taking the most important choice in this game from the player. If anything, we should have gotten more choices. Not less. 

1. The fact that TIM controls Shepard with indoctrination means Shepard isin the process of indoctriantion but we are not takingabout that. He is not a ghost,that is all.

2.Yes, you do. Every post you make in the topic makes that clear. Makingit right for you means you want it to be right. You not thinking about any fault in the decistion when they are faults you just want to be free on conserns over those faults. The fact remain that your putting too much trust in a being with a history ofgreat deseption you have no reason to trust....It's like giving your bank card to a crack adict , code and all. If your going to make a decistion , you also have to cousiderthe flauts of the action.You clearly have not.

Modifié par dreman9999, 19 mai 2012 - 08:10 .

[Hadeedak]

See, I feel Control (and this is me personally) and synthesis are more true to the 'working together to stop the threat' than destroy. Mostly because destroy requires you to have a Shepard who will sacrifice the geth for the galaxy. In control, the one who gets sacrificed is Shepard. And synthesis has its own confusing thing. I mean, all bets are off in the EC. They said they aren't changing the endings, but any added footage changes interpretations. Look at what a big stink I and my fellow control-supporters have made of the relays failing to explode. And that's less than a second taken away. Or the destroy-crew for Shepard's breath, that can only be reached through multiplayer... Or antisynthesis for the leaves, and prosynthesis for the adorable hugstime between Joker and EDI.

Modifié par Hadeedak, 19 mai 2012 - 08:11 .

[DJBare]

Some of you do realize that if I.T is true, then none of those choices have any effect on the real world right?, it's all in Shepard's mind, s/he never left earth, never made it to the citadel, s/he is possibly lying unconscious under a pile of rubble in London, Shepard's story is not finished....yet.
Just my opinion you understand.