33 réponses à ce sujet

[doubledeviant]

First:

I paid Master Wade 10 gold sovereigns for the drakescale armor and 20 gold sovereigns for the superior drakescale armor, but his assistant Herren cries that I've somehow ruined his business and won't trade with me.

W... T...  F?!

I can't purchase the Felon's Coat or any of the other UNIQUE items sold by the shop.  This is bull****.

Second:

I found a peaceful resolution to the dispute between the Mad Hermit and the Grand Oak so that I could trade with the Mad Hermit after I'd acquired more trade items.  After completing Nature of the Beast and returning with trade items, the Mad Hermit refuses to trade with me.  He hops around saying, "Oh, you've done it now!"

W... T... H?!

I lose a codex entry and a UNIQUE item.  This is bull****.

Does Bioware enjoy f***ing players?

Or are these bugs?

Btw, "Get it on your next 90+ hr play" is NOT an acceptable response.

Modifié par doubledeviant, 09 décembre 2009 - 09:50 .

[Matthew Young CT]

They're either intended or were overlooked. The former in particular is likely to be intended.

[doubledeviant]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

They're either intended or were overlooked. The former in particular is likely to be intended.

Rationale?

[doubledeviant]

Heartlocker wrote...

Glad I DID recieve both armours and afterwards, he shut down when he supplied me with Dragonbone massive armor. I am using the Xbox360 version however.

I have not given Master Wade a dragon scale yet, so the "sabbatical" bit that I've read about elsewhere does not apply here.

[Matthew Young CT]

doubledeviant wrote...

Matthew Young CT wrote...

They're either intended or were overlooked. The former in particular is likely to be intended.

Rationale?

Er, the dialogue. They clearly meant for the shop to be closed down, non?

[Forsakerr]

wade says he s closing the shop to take a sabatical , next time grab what you want from the shop before telling him to make the last armor , and about the hermit well trade with him before getting the acorn back to the oak , the hermit ask you to go kill the oak you think that making deals with the oak will make him be happy about it?

[doubledeviant]

Matthew Young CT wrote...

Er, the dialogue. They clearly meant for the shop to be closed down, non?

So... Bioware likes to f*** players?

Forsakerr wrote...

wade says he s closing the shop to
take a sabatical , next time grab what you want from the shop before
telling him to make the last armor , and about the hermit well trade
with him before getting the acorn back to the oak , the hermit ask you
to go kill the oak you think that making deals with the oak will make
him be happy about it?

1.  Read my posts.  I haven't given Master Wade a dragon scale yet.

2.  The Hermit never asked me to kill the Oak.

Modifié par doubledeviant, 09 décembre 2009 - 10:28 .

[Kepha]

Herron refuses to deal with you after the second drakescale armor because you've made them lose business by having Wade make you two sets of special armor for you. You lose the ability to shop after the second set of drakescale regardless of whether you turn in the dragonscale or not. The sabbatical dialogue after the dragonscale doesn't really have any ingame effect, its just there to show you that there is nothing further you can do with Wade's shop after that point.

The Hermit you need to deal with before completing the Nature of the Beast quest. You can get all possible trade items before entering the werewolf lair, so its entirely possible to get all three items first then finish the quest.  And actually I thing that the Hermit stops trading with you once you get the Acorn, so if you want any of the other items you need to trade for them first.  And at some point he will just stop talking to you, there are only so many questions he will ask you to allow you to ask him one back.  That is because he's a crazy old man.

Modifié par Kepha, 09 décembre 2009 - 10:43 .

[BanditGR]

These however are NOT bugs but perfectly INTENDED reactions. I suggest you (re)read Kepha's post and save more often in the future, especially before handing anything for a quest or taking a seemingly important plot decision.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

It's a game about choices. You can have your cake, or you can eat it. That's how life works. Don't bawww that a game about choices offers you... choices! If you want to collect everything, you'll want a simpler RPG. Which is also a choice. ;-)

[BanditGR]

I do agree however on the fact that there is absolutely no warning about any of these things beforehand. Which is why saving often is highly recommended.

[doubledeviant]

Kepha wrote...

Herron refuses to deal with you after the second drakescale armor because you've made them lose business by having Wade make you two sets of special armor for you. You lose the ability to shop after the second set of drakescale regardless of whether you turn in the dragonscale or not. The sabbatical dialogue after the dragonscale doesn't really have any ingame effect, its just there to show you that there is nothing further you can do with Wade's shop after that point.

How does 30 gold sovereigns plus whatever else I've purchased (plus the 100+ gold sovereigns that I intended to spend) equate to losing business?  Stop knee-jerk defending Bioware and admit that it's retarded.

The Hermit you need to deal with before completing the Nature of the Beast quest. You can get all possible trade items before entering the werewolf lair, so its entirely possible to get all three items first then finish the quest.  And actually I thing that the Hermit stops trading with you once you get the Acorn, so if you want any of the other items you need to trade for them first.  And at some point he will just stop talking to you, there are only so many questions he will ask you to allow you to ask him one back.  That is because he's a crazy old man.

Your defense assumes meta-game knowledge.  Without prior plays  or a walk-thru, there's no reason given or implied to assume that the Hermit will stop trading.  It's bad game design.

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

It's a game about choices. You can have your cake, or you can eat it. That's how life works. Don't bawww that a game about choices offers you... choices! If you want to collect everything, you'll want a simpler RPG. Which is also a choice. ;-)

It's NOT a choice UNLESS you have meta-game knowledge.

I made CHOICES (pay Master Wade, find a peaceful solution to the quarrel between the Grand Oak and the Mad Hermit) which had NO EFFECT on the situation (Herren still whines that I've somehow  ruined his business, the Mad Hermit still refuses to trade).

BanditGR wrote...

I do agree however on the fact that
there is absolutely no warning about any of these things beforehand.
Which is why saving often is highly recommended.

I do save often, but I didn't realize what had happened until I returned to each area.  Reloading a save would have forced me to replay 2-3 hrs in both cases.

Modifié par doubledeviant, 10 décembre 2009 - 07:42 .

[fdshfdsfhkshejkfhesfkels]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

It's a game about choices.
You can have your cake, or you can eat it. That's how life works. Don't
bawww that a game about choices offers you... choices! If you want to
collect everything, you'll want a simpler RPG. Which is also a choice.
;-)

I must say, this is one of the best answer i've read all around the forum.
But... man, he's telling you: the damn armorer closed up BEFORE he even got a damn dragon scale.

Mean the "real" dragon armor is out of reach and only the first two armor made of little dragonkin scale are made

Also: the game is about choices, but if the text lines don't let the player know what's appening and what are the conseguences, what kind of choice do you have? Random?

Not fun, this is he telling you.

[doubledeviant]

fdshfdsfhkshejkfhesfkels wrote...

Also: the game is about choices, but if the text lines don't let the player know what's appening and what are the conseguences, what kind of choice do you have? Random?

Not fun, this is he telling you.

Yes.  :-)

[Kepha]

fdshfdsfhkshejkfhesfkels wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

It's a game about choices.
You can have your cake, or you can eat it. That's how life works. Don't
bawww that a game about choices offers you... choices! If you want to
collect everything, you'll want a simpler RPG. Which is also a choice.
;-)

I must say, this is one of the best answer i've read all around the forum.
But... man, he's telling you: the damn armorer closed up BEFORE he even got a damn dragon scale.

Mean the "real" dragon armor is out of reach and only the first two armor made of little dragonkin scale are made

Also: the game is about choices, but if the text lines don't let the player know what's appening and what are the conseguences, what kind of choice do you have? Random?

Not fun, this is he telling you.

No, the armorer is not completely closed after the first two armors, you can still get dragonscale made.  You just can no longer purchase anything else from their store.  The game gives you plenty of clues that Herron isn't happy about Wade dropping everything else to work on your armor.  In fact when you come back with the second set of drake scales he tries to get you to go away before Wade realizes you have them.

Modifié par Kepha, 10 décembre 2009 - 07:46 .

[Sloth Of Doom]

In both the cases cited here it the game makes it fairly obvious that your actions are annoying certain people or going against their wishes. Just because you are stupid enough to ignore the warnings doesn't mean the game should be stupid enough to let you get away with it.

[doubledeviant]

Kepha wrote...

No, the armorer is not completely closed after the first two armors, you can still get dragonscale made.  You just can no longer purchase anything else from their store.  The game gives you plenty of clues that Herron isn't happy about Wade dropping everything else to work on your armor.  In fact when you come back with the second set of drake scales he tries to get you to go away before Wade realizes you have them.

Which doesn't make sense given my previous response to your post.

[doubledeviant]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

In both the cases cited here it the game makes it fairly obvious that your actions are annoying certain people or going against their wishes. Just because you are stupid enough to ignore the warnings doesn't mean the game should be stupid enough to let you get away with it.

Yeah, right.

Okay... there is NO warning in the Mad Hermit situation.  Not in the choice-tree I experienced.

And as I've already argued, it doesn't make sense for Herren to be annoyed with large amounts of golds sovereigns being thrown his way.

[Kepha]

doubledeviant wrote...

Kepha wrote...

No, the armorer is not completely closed after the first two armors, you can still get dragonscale made.  You just can no longer purchase anything else from their store.  The game gives you plenty of clues that Herron isn't happy about Wade dropping everything else to work on your armor.  In fact when you come back with the second set of drake scales he tries to get you to go away before Wade realizes you have them.

Which doesn't make sense given my previous response to your post.

Time of civil war and blight.  Probably Lots of panicked nobles wanting to upgrade their armor and weapons.  A time when an armorer probably rakes in the cash.  The money you might deign to pay him, 30 soverigns for two sets of armor that is worth a lot more, is probably nothing compared to what they've lost having to stop production to make your special armor.

But since these aren't bugs, this discussion really no longer belongs in the Tech Support forum.  If you want to debate "bad game design" the spoilers forum is probably a better place.

Modifié par Kepha, 10 décembre 2009 - 08:06 .

[Sloth Of Doom]

Ok here are some real-life examples to make you understand:



The Hermit:

Vinny No-nose asks you to make sure Jimmy the Snitch ends up sleeping with the fishes. You go to Jimmy and he says he will give you a new stereo if you can go get his watch back from Vinny. So you go back to Vinny and buy the watch from him. Vinny doesn't think this is odd because obviously you are going to whack Jimmy like he asked you to.



Now, WTF do you think Vinny is going to say when he finds out the Jimmy is still breathin? Hint....he isn't going to trade with you.





Wade:

You love to get stuff done to your car. You constantly go to a local shop to get improvements done, but you don't deal with the front desk, you go directly to the bays and talk to the mechanics, and make the deals with them. The shop gets the money you are paying, but all of the other customers that were waiting get put off until your car is done. This doesn't happen just once...you go back every week and ****** off all of the customers waiting for work to be done. Soon, all of those customers stop oing to the shop AND they tell all their friends about the ****ty service they received. So sure, the shop has your cash, but it just lost out on 10 or twenty times MORE cash and their business will be affected for years. Not surprisingly the next time you bring your car in (after numerous warnings) the shop won;t let thier mechanics work on it.

[Aerundel]

Why should the hermit give you a warning? He's a crazy hermit, end of story.



Herren is annoyed because of the effort it took to make those drakescale armors, regardless of the money. Those drake scales are probably worth more than 30 gold, and the labor cost associated with that would be similarly valuable. You're basically getting time + labor for free just by supplying the materials. That's not how commissions usually work.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Ok here are some real-life examples to make you understand:

The Hermit:


Wade:

*claps*  If OP is capable of looking beyond his pain and suffering, those example should make him understand.  Nicely done.

[Varenus Luckmann]

doubledeviant wrote...

Matthew Young CT wrote...

They're either intended or were overlooked. The former in particular is likely to be intended.

Rationale?

The Hermit is mad and is tired of questions?