181 réponses à ce sujet

[GGW KillerTiger]

 It's a digital monopoly ....

[COLZ7R]

Maybe the music industry should try this kind of rubbish. buy album with 20 tracks on it but you can only listen to 10 of them, randomlly based on the amount of times you listen to the full album it will unlock another track, you can buy unlock pack at a extra charge but it might just give you a song you already have!!!!
Having no idea when or even if you will get to use things you have already payed for is a bloody joke, make n7 packs where you get a n7 card in it cost a bloody fortune, so the people who love to grind **** still have their goals, and you will get something you might want

[8 Bears]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Sjrv wrote...

It's not a game of chance where you could win or lose money. You always get something. Hence it's not gambling. Period. Same applies to lotteries where you win random items, but not money - and where some sort of prize is guranteed. Not-gambling. It's that simple, really.

Why should I googlefind other people who just look for anything to make a fuss about?

Argument about CCG is perfectly valid, relate to that before calling me a troll, OP. I used the Kinder Surprise example only to make your point look even more ridiculous There is not much difference between digital "goods" or physically existing cards.

It's incredible how dense some of you are.  Let me see if I can make this clear: I DID NOT HAVE A POINT.  LOOK AT TITLE OF THREAD.  I AM ASKING A QUESTION.

Very nice, you positioned yourself so close to having a point but still detatched enough to where others couldn't argue that you have a point. Well played you slippery goose.

[donnyrides]

At least with trading cards and packs, there is a way to purchase single cards if you like. While in the current packs only system set up by EA/BioWare, you are forced to play by their rules. EA/BioWare should offer a "deal of the week" and sell a few hot individual items that people want for credits or cash. The players are putting in the work if they have stockpiled a million credits, they should be able to flat out buy a black widow if they want to for for X amount of credits/cash. People would still play the game, maybe even more if they knew they could work hard and buy what they want. They could still leave the pack system in place if they wanted to. As a N755, I like the excitement of the unknown pack items myself, but there will come a time when I don't want to have to spend 4 million credits just to get 1 N7 weapon.

[Maria Caliban]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Last time I checked, online gambling was illegal (at least in the U.S.)

Online gambling isn't illegal per se in the USA.

As for 'charging real $ for random packs,' you just described Magic: The Gathering and baseball cards.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 17 mai 2012 - 04:29 .

[dreamgazer]

"In such online games, known as "kompu gacha" (complete gacha), players can win a grand prize, a rare virtual item, after purchasing a certain number of required items."

"In kompu gacha, an advanced form of gacha, players can obtain rare items once they collect a certain combination of items available in gacha games."

Again, different: that game hinges on the idea that your chances of bigger reward increase with the amount of money you spend directly into the game. As far as I know, the chances of getting uncommon, rare, and ultra rare items in the weapon packs don't tangibly increase based on the amount of money you've spent---only determined by the type of pack you purchase. Buy a pack, get what you get, and you're done with that microtransaction, and, outside of the game keeping track of what you've already got and not for your benefit, the next transaction has no bearing on the first one.

EDIT for clarity: Meaning the game doesn't make it more highly probable that you'll get an ultra-rare gun if you've purchased X number of veteran packs.  I think a bunch of the more extensive gamers who still don't have certain weapons can attest to that.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 17 mai 2012 - 04:36 .

[Sparda Stonerule]

Oh alright then let me answer then if that's all you wanted. It's legal because it is.

Sorry I assumed you wanted thoughtful responses but if you aren't going to give them then why should we bother.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

8 Bears wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Sjrv wrote...

It's not a game of chance where you could win or lose money. You always get something. Hence it's not gambling. Period. Same applies to lotteries where you win random items, but not money - and where some sort of prize is guranteed. Not-gambling. It's that simple, really.

Why should I googlefind other people who just look for anything to make a fuss about?

Argument about CCG is perfectly valid, relate to that before calling me a troll, OP. I used the Kinder Surprise example only to make your point look even more ridiculous There is not much difference between digital "goods" or physically existing cards.

It's incredible how dense some of you are.  Let me see if I can make this clear: I DID NOT HAVE A POINT.  LOOK AT TITLE OF THREAD.  I AM ASKING A QUESTION.

Very nice, you positioned yourself so close to having a point but still detatched enough to where others couldn't argue that you have a point. Well played you slippery goose.

What is wrong with you?  Can you not understand that I posted this thread to generate some discussion about a question I asked.  The question is in the title of the thread.  I'm not trying to be clever or to manipulate anyone.  I do not have a "point".  I was curious as to why something that seemed like gambling to me wasn't actually legally considered gambling.  That's it.  No more, no less.

But I'm sure you'll still have something snarky to say in response, despite my clear explanation.

[Klokos]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Here is what a serious consideration of the topic looks like. It really is not as cut-and-dry as some people seem to think. Thank you to the people who actually took the time to give a thoughtful response.

http://www.develop-o...g-with-gameplay

[...]

 That's a very interesting link, but from what I read it seems that payed items beingh tradable play a huge role in the issue, while in ME3 they're not, so far it looks like it'a as legal as it can be, but to me it seems your issue is with EA rather than the pâck.

[Drawrof]

The only legal issue I had with the store was addressed this week. If I was to purchase a jep with money and I have 255 ammo clips already, what right did they have to remove the 5 ammo clips from my inventory. To me this is theft. I paid for a product and they took it back without my consent.

Only by reading this forum did I know that ammo clips maxed at 255. I'm sure if there was no clip I would have over 1000. Assuming that the 5 ammo clips constitute in prior packs 10% or any equivenr of 12 msp. Therefore ea has removed at least 1,800 msp product from my inventory against my consent. I would mind be compensated with 15 to 20 fixed jep's

[CmnDwnWrkn]

dreamgazer wrote...

"In such online games, known as "kompu gacha" (complete gacha), players can win a grand prize, a rare virtual item, after purchasing a certain number of required items."

"In kompu gacha, an advanced form of gacha, players can obtain rare items once they collect a certain combination of items available in gacha games."

Again, different: that game hinges on the idea that your chances of bigger reward increase with the amount of money you spend directly into the game. As far as I know, the chances of getting uncommon, rare, and ultra rare items in the weapon packs don't tangibly increase based on the amount of money you've spent---only determined by the type of pack your purchase. Buy a pack, get what you get, and you're done with that microtransaction, and, outside of the game keeping track of what you've already got and not for your benefit, the next transaction has no bearing on the first one.

EDIT for clarity: Meaning the game doesn't make it more highly probably that you'll get an ultra-rare gun if you've purchased X number of veteran packs.  I think a bunch of the more extensive gamers who still don't have certain weapons can attest to that.

I can see the distinction.

[BLY78NOR]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

How is buying random baseball card packs legal?

Sorry, yes, editted because of the countless replies pointing this out before me.

Why don't you tell me?  Nobody else seems to be able to.

Lots of people have you just chose to ignore it

You are buying a pack of random cards and you are getting a pack of random cards

I haven't ignored a thing.  Saying "Well such and such similar product is legal, therefore this must be as well" is neither correct nor helpful at answering the question.

As far as trade laws go it's exactly the same, 

They are selling you a pack of random cards, you are buying a pack of random cards and you are getting a pack of random cards. what exactly about this process is so hard for you to understand?

You are always getting what the seller says you will get, a pack of random cards 

Please point me to the law that makes this distinction.

I'm not going to sit here and waste the rest of my day looking up and
posting every law relevant to your question you're the one seeking the
answer, so why should anyone but you do it?
Go read up on trade and contract laws if you're not sattified with the asnwers you're getting here,

[Mozts]

In my country of have a saying: "If well paid, no harm done"

Its funnier in Portuguese but you got my point. Money is the law.

Modifié par Mozts, 17 mai 2012 - 04:36 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Oh alright then let me answer then if that's all you wanted. It's legal because it is.

Sorry I assumed you wanted thoughtful responses but if you aren't going to give them then why should we bother.

I tried, but then a bunch of smartasses like yourself came out from under their rocks and derailed the thread with the usual sarcasm and attempts to be clever rather than have a real discussion. 

BLY78NOR wrote...
I'm not going to sit here and waste the rest of my day looking up and
posting every law relevant to your question you're the one seeking the
answer, so why should anyone but you do it?
Go read up on trade and contract laws if you're not sattified with the asnwers you're getting here,

Well that's funny, because I could swear YOU were the one who claimed to have a thorough understanding of the law, whereas I admitted I did not and could not find it.  Hence the reason I created this thread.

So it would seem you should have no trouble pointing me to the specific law that you claim to be so knowledgeable about.

Now I have to assume you're talking completely out of your ass.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 17 mai 2012 - 04:39 .

[8 Bears]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

8 Bears wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Sjrv wrote...

It's not a game of chance where you could win or lose money. You always get something. Hence it's not gambling. Period. Same applies to lotteries where you win random items, but not money - and where some sort of prize is guranteed. Not-gambling. It's that simple, really.

Why should I googlefind other people who just look for anything to make a fuss about?

Argument about CCG is perfectly valid, relate to that before calling me a troll, OP. I used the Kinder Surprise example only to make your point look even more ridiculous There is not much difference between digital "goods" or physically existing cards.

It's incredible how dense some of you are.  Let me see if I can make this clear: I DID NOT HAVE A POINT.  LOOK AT TITLE OF THREAD.  I AM ASKING A QUESTION.

Very nice, you positioned yourself so close to having a point but still detatched enough to where others couldn't argue that you have a point. Well played you slippery goose.

What is wrong with you?  Can you not understand that I posted this thread to generate some discussion about a question I asked.  The question is in the title of the thread.  I'm not trying to be clever or to manipulate anyone.  I do not have a "point".  I was curious as to why something that seemed like gambling to me wasn't actually legally considered gambling.  That's it.  No more, no less.

But I'm sure you'll still have something snarky to say in response, despite my clear explanation.

I know you're slightly upset and partially embarassed for asking such a silly question in the first place, but don't take it out on me brotha.. I'm on your side, kind of.. Which one is that again? Define yourself loosey goosey.

[PSUHammer]

The OP is ridiculous. Of COURSE it is legal. No one is forcing you to buy anything. It is completely voluntary. The person with the gumball machine analogy was spot on.

[tfoltz]

Troll thread designed to waste time. Move on.

[LimeANite]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Show me where I said "this isn't legal".

Now you're just nitpicking. Saying that the pack system is like online gambling and then saying that online gambling is illegal implies that you think the pack system is illegal. That may not have been your intent, but that's what it sounds like.

On topic:
The examples you're using are of cases where the items aren't available any other way except through real money. Since packs can be bought with in-game cash, it cannot be considered gambling. The player is under zero obligation to spend money in order to get the reward. To take the example of the "Unholy Trinity" that one of your articles used, this system has only chance and payout. And even the second one is debatable since the items can't be exchanged for anything of real-world value.

[Sjrv]

Oh gods. There is nothing to discuss, dude. It is perfectly legal. You're telling people to use Google and yet you need to create a new topic to ask question "is it legal?". Analogy to CCG is so obvious there isn't even much to explain. The only potentially problematic situation might occur if they ban someone who's spent even $1 on those packs. There are no problems with random packs per se, unless someone tries to block your access to "digital goods" you bought (e.g. with a ban).

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Hammer6767 wrote...

The OP is ridiculous. Of COURSE it is legal. No one is forcing you to buy anything. It is completely voluntary. The person with the gumball machine analogy was spot on.

This is perhaps the most idiotic reply yet.  If nobody forces you to do something, it's automatically legal.  Think about that for a second.

[Sabbatine]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

This seems awfully close to a lottery, i.e. gambling.  A rather opaque lottery at that, since the odds of winning the various items aren't even posted anywhere.

I'm just wondering how EA can get away with this crap.  Last time I checked, online gambling was illegal (at least in the U.S.).

Do you have any idea of what gambling actually is?  Well, since you don't, let me explain it to you.

When you gamble you are not promised any return on your investment, in fact you're unlikely to see any return on your investment at all.

When you buy a spectre pack you are guaranteed a return on the investment.  You will always get five cards and you are guaranteed that one of those cards will be rare.  When you buy a lottery ticket you aren't guaranteed anything at all and most of the time you don't get anything either.

If you buy a spectre pack with the intent of getting anything out of it other than what you are guaranteed you're a fool.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...

The OP is ridiculous. Of COURSE it is legal. No one is forcing you to buy anything. It is completely voluntary. The person with the gumball machine analogy was spot on.

This is perhaps the most idiotic reply yet.  If nobody forces you to do something, it's automatically legal.  Think about that for a second.

Congratulations, you've managed to create a post that both misses the point and reveals your hilarious lack of reading comprehension.

The person you responded to never claimed that any activity you are not forced to participate in is legal, he claimed that it is not illegal for them to sell this product because they are not forcing people to buy their game, play their game, and then spend additional money on these packs.  In order to play ME3 multiplayer you must choose as a customer to buy the game.  In order to buy ME3 item packs with real money you must login and choose to do so.  Provide your credit card (or other financial) information, and hit the submit button fully aware of what you are purchasing in the form of bioware points or xbox currency.

At that point you can choose which item pack to buy... each has a description of the contents and is very specific about saying what you will get, and what you might get.

Modifié par Sabbatine, 17 mai 2012 - 04:55 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Sabbatine wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

This seems awfully close to a lottery, i.e. gambling.  A rather opaque lottery at that, since the odds of winning the various items aren't even posted anywhere.

I'm just wondering how EA can get away with this crap.  Last time I checked, online gambling was illegal (at least in the U.S.).

Do you have any idea of what gambling actually is?  Well, since you don't, let me explain it to you.

When you gamble you are not promised any return on your investment, in fact you're unlikely to see any return on your investment at all.

When you buy a spectre pack you are guaranteed a return on the investment.  You will always get five cards and you are guaranteed that one of those cards will be rare.  When you buy a lottery ticket you aren't guaranteed anything at all and most of the time you don't get anything either.

If you buy a spectre pack with the intent of getting anything out of it other than what you are guaranteed you're a fool.

I obviously DON'T know what gambling actually is.  This is why I asked the question in the first place.

Is the title of this thread

A) "How is charging real $ for random packs even legal?"

or

"Charging real $ for random packs is illegal"


This fundamental difference seems to be lost on way too many people.

LimeANite wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Show me where I said "this isn't legal".

Now
you're just nitpicking. Saying that the pack system is like online
gambling and then saying that online gambling is illegal implies that
you think the pack system is illegal. That may not have been your
intent, but that's what it sounds like.

On topic:
The examples
you're using are of cases where the items aren't available any other
way except through real money. Since packs can be bought with in-game
cash, it cannot be considered gambling. The player is under zero
obligation to spend money in order to get the reward. To take the
example of the "Unholy Trinity" that one of your articles used, this
system has only chance and payout. And even the second one is debatable
since the items can't be exchanged for anything of real-world
value.

I said that the pack system SEEMS like gambling and SEEMS like it should be illegal TO ME, and I asked for clarification as to WHY IT ISN'T ILLEGAL.  Asking "Why is X not illegal?" is substantially different from "X should be illegal.  Let's debate."  If you don't see the difference, then that is YOUR reading comprehension problem.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 17 mai 2012 - 04:56 .

[sirus1988]

Then don't spend real money on them. When you get crap from a pack at least you only wasted your time to get the credits and not real money..

On the legal/illegal issue, it is legal to sell random packs (ie MTG, Digimon, Pokemon).

[BLY78NOR]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...
I'm not going to sit here and waste the rest of my day looking up and
posting every law relevant to your question you're the one seeking the
answer, so why should anyone but you do it?
Go read up on trade and contract laws if you're not sattified with the asnwers you're getting here,

Well that's funny, because I could swear YOU were the one who claimed to have a thorough understanding of the law, whereas I admitted I did not and could not find it.  Hence the reason I created this thread.

So it would seem you should have no trouble pointing me to the specific law that you claim to be so knowledgeable about.

Now I have to assume you're talking completely out of your ass.

I am going to assume you're you're really not looking for an aswer as much as you're looking to whine and argue