181 réponses à ce sujet

[staindgrey]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

staindgrey wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

staindgrey wrote...

Then here's a better answer:

When
there is an alternative to get the same items free of charge, it kind
of null-and-voids the problem with charging. Paying for a pack that you
could just earn for free with a little effort is the consumer's own
choice, and they fully know before purchasing it that it is an entirely
random selection. The game makes no attempt to shy away from that.

Saying this isn't legal is a really, really big stretch.

Show me where I said "this isn't legal".

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I'm just wondering how EA can get away with this crap. Last time I checked, online gambling was illegal (at least in the U.S.).

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]

Show me where I said "this isn't legal".

You cannot be serious. You imply that the pack scheme is gambling, say that online gambling is illegal, and ask how "EA can get away with this crap", all while naming your topic "How is charging for real $ for random packs even legal?"

It's like you've been charged for murder due to confessing, and ask to be shown where they caught you saying "I murdered that guy" when all they have are multiple clips of you saying you "ended his life" instead.

If you'd like to have a debate, that's awesome. Bring your evidence and I'll bring mine. But don't try to make a point with logical fallacies and reptition thereof.

[NoUserNameHere]

Multiplayer packs are basically digital Pokemon card packs. Be glad we at least have the option to spend either credits or msp on them.

[TheMightyG00sh]

Simple answer: Because it's optional.

[DoctorEss]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

DoctorEss wrote...

It's not gambling. This thread is a waste of internet.

At worst, it'd fall under the same laws which might govern a grab-bag, or other sight unseen item. Considering you have no chance of winning money, you have no argument.

What did I argue, dummy?  I asked a question, and the answer obviously isn't as black and white as you're implying.

Why does every thread need to involve these snarky, condescending replies?  Did I offend you in some way?

your-friendly-noggin wrote...

Haven't you ever heard of trading cards? It's pretty much exactly the same premise.

No, what is a "trading card"?  You are obviously far more knowledgeable than I.  Some of you seem really bitter, and ready to lash out for no good reason.

An argument, as in, your point.  The argument you were attempting to forward, that it violates the law (lol).  It doesn't.

The answer is black and white.  It's not gambling.  Gambling laws govern the exchange of money for a chance of winning... money.

You are not.  You are purchasing a grab bag assortment of digital items.  You don't "win" anything.  

[dreamgazer]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I obviously DON'T know what gambling actually is.  This is why I asked the question in the first place.

Is the title of this thread

A) "How is charging real $ for random packs even legal?"

or

"Charging real $ for random packs is illegal"


This fundamental difference seems to be lost on way too many people.

Oh, okay. Here, we can end this quickly then:

There's a difference between a gamble and "gambling", and buying the packs is an independent gamble. You can play the game perfectly fine without ever purchasing one, and there's no overlaying reputation/investment-driven game of chance involved with the outcome of the microtransactions and their delivery of certain items.

[Klokos]

TheMightyG00sh wrote...

Simple answer: Because it's optional.

 So, because I can choose not to kill someone killing is legal ?

N.B. : I don't support nor agree with OP .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

BLY78NOR wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...
I'm not going to sit here and waste the rest of my day looking up and
posting every law relevant to your question you're the one seeking the
answer, so why should anyone but you do it?
Go read up on trade and contract laws if you're not sattified with the asnwers you're getting here,

Well that's funny, because I could swear YOU were the one who claimed to have a thorough understanding of the law, whereas I admitted I did not and could not find it.  Hence the reason I created this thread.

So it would seem you should have no trouble pointing me to the specific law that you claim to be so knowledgeable about.

Now I have to assume you're talking completely out of your ass.

I am going to assume you're you're really not looking for an aswer as much as you're looking to whine and argue

1) You claimed to have a through understanding of the law as it applies in this case.

2) I asked you to provide a reference to the law in question.

3) You failed to do so.

[PrebuiltTub]

just cus you pay money for something that varies doesnt make it gambling

[Docwagon1776]

Its not gambling in the legal sense of games of chance. Its gambling like buying a sandwich you've never tried or seeing a new movie. You get what you paid for, but you might not like what you got.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

staindgrey wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

staindgrey wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

staindgrey wrote...

Then here's a better answer:

When
there is an alternative to get the same items free of charge, it kind
of null-and-voids the problem with charging. Paying for a pack that you
could just earn for free with a little effort is the consumer's own
choice, and they fully know before purchasing it that it is an entirely
random selection. The game makes no attempt to shy away from that.

Saying this isn't legal is a really, really big stretch.

Show me where I said "this isn't legal".

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I'm just wondering how EA can get away with this crap. Last time I checked, online gambling was illegal (at least in the U.S.).

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]

Show me where I said "this isn't legal".

You cannot be serious. You imply that the pack scheme is gambling, say that online gambling is illegal, and ask how "EA can get away with this crap", all while naming your topic "How is charging for real $ for random packs even legal?"

It's like you've been charged for murder due to confessing, and ask to be shown where they caught you saying "I murdered that guy" when all they have are multiple clips of you saying you "ended his life" instead.

If you'd like to have a debate, that's awesome. Bring your evidence and I'll bring mine. But don't try to make a point with logical fallacies and reptition thereof.

^^^False equivalence

If you can't see that I've repeatedly clarified that I'm not trying to debate, then that's your problem.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

dreamgazer wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I obviously DON'T know what gambling actually is.  This is why I asked the question in the first place.

Is the title of this thread

A) "How is charging real $ for random packs even legal?"

or

"Charging real $ for random packs is illegal"


This fundamental difference seems to be lost on way too many people.

Oh, okay. Here, we can end this quickly then:

There's a difference between a gamble and "gambling", and buying the packs is an independent gamble. You can play the game perfectly fine without ever purchasing one, and there's no overlaying reputation/investment-driven game of chance involved with the outcome of the microtransactions and their delivery of certain items.

Thank you.  This is really all I wanted to know.

[SojournerN7]

It's perfectly legal. A recruit pack is defined as: Includes 5 random items or characters, with a small chance for an Uncommon. It's clearly defined. Sadly, selling just about anything for real world money seems to be the way all things in gaming seem to be going. The important bit is being smart with your wallet and making a proper conscious decision about the product being provided.

[Kel Riever]

At this point, I think you have the answer to your question, CmnDwnWrkn, and I don't myself see the value of debating it beyond that point. I mean, maybe some lawyers will up and decide that its all worth suing over. And then that would happen in court. And then we could hear all about it. It is all hypothetical at that point. If there was something blatantly wrong with charging $$$ for random packs, though, I'm pretty sure someone would have gone after EA by now. And I'm not going to get myself worked up over if and when they do.

My advise to everyone (and it seems I'm not alone) is you don't need to buy the packs, so don't. And if you do, consider it a lesson learned in improper use of money and move on.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Kel Riever wrote...

At this point, I think you have the answer to your question, CmnDwnWrkn, and I don't myself see the value of debating it beyond that point. I mean, maybe some lawyers will up and decide that its all worth suing over. And then that would happen in court. And then we could hear all about it. It is all hypothetical at that point. If there was something blatantly wrong with charging $$$ for random packs, though, I'm pretty sure someone would have gone after EA by now. And I'm not going to get myself worked up over if and when they do.

My advise to everyone (and it seems I'm not alone) is you don't need to buy the packs, so don't. And if you do, consider it a lesson learned in improper use of money and move on.

Thanks, you and others have sufficiently answered the question, as far as I'm concerned.

I just don't appreciate all the hostility, especially after I clarified the intent of this thread several times and edited the OP for clarity.  Seems to be a kneejerk reaction from a certain subset of the BSN community.

Sojourner83 wrote...

It's perfectly legal. A recruit pack
is defined as: Includes 5 random items or characters, with a small
chance for an Uncommon. It's clearly defined. Sadly, selling just about
anything for real world money seems to be the way all things in gaming
seem to be going. The important bit is being smart with your wallet and
making a proper conscious decision about the product being
provided.

I agree.  It does ultimately fall on the consumer to decide whether or not the transaction is worth it.  I know I won't be spending any $ on this anytime soon.  MAYBE I would if I knew what the odds actually were or had some sort of guarantee that the RNG really is random.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 17 mai 2012 - 05:09 .

[Kel Riever]

I know. Hostility seems to be the way of the posting around here. But keeping it funny is always a good answer. Anyway, hey, I found it useful to hear what the laws on this kind of stuff were in other countries.

[Master Xanthan]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

All I would like to know is why this wouldn't be considered an illegal lottery or gambling.  I am not arguing that it IS one way or the other.

Well pokemon card and yugioh card packs work in the same way. You pay money to get a pack of random cards and that's not illegal. Same thing goes for collectible minatures games that have randomized booster packs. Just be glad that in ME3 we can get the option to NOT pay with real money.

[samb]

Know what would get me to really cough up money?  Letting me pick exactly what I want.  Would I pay $5 for an upgrade on my scorpion?  You bet.  Would I pay that much for a slim chance of getting a scorpion II, not at all.  I know plenty of people who would pony up real money for a black widow, and a few that would pay even more for a fully upgraded one.  Because for some people their time is that valuable.  They rather spend $$$ than spend 2 months grinding FBWGG for a slim chance of getting what they want.

People who pay extra (and real) cash should get better treatment.  This isn't a new concept, it's just good bussiness.  So to the OP, no it's perfectly legal.  It's also completely retarded.  Bioware/EA are shotting themselves in the foot and losing revenue.

[BLY78NOR]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...
I'm not going to sit here and waste the rest of my day looking up and
posting every law relevant to your question you're the one seeking the
answer, so why should anyone but you do it?
Go read up on trade and contract laws if you're not sattified with the asnwers you're getting here,

Well that's funny, because I could swear YOU were the one who claimed to have a thorough understanding of the law, whereas I admitted I did not and could not find it.  Hence the reason I created this thread.

So it would seem you should have no trouble pointing me to the specific law that you claim to be so knowledgeable about.

Now I have to assume you're talking completely out of your ass.

I am going to assume you're you're really not looking for an aswer as much as you're looking to whine and argue

1) You claimed to have a through understanding of the law as it applies in this case.

2) I asked you to provide a reference to the law in question.

3) You failed to do so.

i don't really have to provide you with anything, you're the one seeking answers if the answers you where given is not satisfactory then look it up your self. I nor anyone in this thread is only any obligation to prove our answers. You want a better more specific one look it up your self. Wanna prove me wrong? good luck

Modifié par BLY78NOR, 17 mai 2012 - 05:18 .

[Jay Leon Hart]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...
Trading card games comprise consideration (paying for a real or virtual pack) and chance (the cards in each pack are allocated randomly). Left at that, the game is unequivocally legal.

However, many games services allow and actively encourage their cards to be traded. While some of this trading is done with virtual currencies only in closed secondary markets, not all of it is, and some allow cashing out, in a process that clearly constitutes reward and thus theoretically completes the unholy trinity.

So, as your research demonstrates, since the items purchased cannot be traded the pack system is only comprised of 2 parts of the unholy trinity and is therefore legal.

[Rasputin17]

You agree to the terms. Its not illegal anyway. Its like a raffle.

[Yigorse]

It's not gambling in the same sense that casinos are, because you don't stand to MAKE any money, also, gain you do get is virtual.

[Deucetipher]

There is no way to realize material gain from the "gamble." Therefore, it is not gambling in the technical sense. That is how it can be legal.

[Omega2079]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

All I would like to know is why this wouldn't be considered an illegal lottery or gambling.  I am not arguing that it IS one way or the other.

You're always buying something, no matter how little you value the actual cards you get.

Modifié par Omega2079, 17 mai 2012 - 05:31 .

[vivanto]

Considering that many countries get repeatedly left out of harmless sweepstakes because of local gambling laws, it does make you wonder how this system got past.

[lordofdogtown19]

It's perfectly legal to sell Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic, Baseball cards, ect, ect. Pretty much the same concept.

Plus you don't need to use real money