181 réponses à ce sujet

[marmot 1333]

I always wonder this with people that complain about the random packs. Did you never buy baseball cards when you were growing up? Soccer Cards? Magic: The Gathering cards??

All of these "real-world" examples work the same as this Store concept.

In psychology this is called a variable ratio schedule, because you're rewarded for buying the pack but you never know when you'll hit "jackpot". "The Variable-Ratio Schedule produces the highest response rate and the most resistance to extinction." ~ The World of Psychology, page 175. This would be of great interest to someone making money of a randomized pack.

Edit: "You can trade real-life trading cards" is a valid point and does make this system feel a little more stifling.

Modifié par marmot 1333, 17 mai 2012 - 06:53 .

[John123453242]

Your reply to my post doesn't make any sense. Again, for the third time, if you always get cards in return, you aren't gambling. Gambling is not paying for a product. It is throwing down money with the chance of a payout, or losing your money. If you get something in return every time, you aren't gambling...

What casino game can you name where there is no chance of you losing money without getting something in return? Go ahead and try comparing this to any real gambling...

[Drawrof]

Every time you purchase a spectre pack, premium spectre pack, or whatever pack you get exactly was you paid for. With the spectre packs you enter into agreement to purchase "The best equipment for the galaxy's best operatives. Includes 5 random items or characters, with at least 1rare or better". Everytine you have purchased a spectre pack, aside from pc store glitches, you've received exactly what you agreed to purchase.

I see no ethical or legal reasons why this type of transaction should not occur. However I do have issue with equipment max capacity and character cards remaining as the only gold option. In prior post I pointed out that when they sell and taketh away items(ammo clips maxed at 255) that I paid credits or cash for smacks of theft or breach of an agreement. As for the character cards, I think those of us that have maxed our gold should be either given a warning upon purchase or the ability to save the gold character cards to use experience as we see fit. If all my characters classes are level 20, I am in fact not getting anything for my purchase of rare item as I receive no benefit. I think the best solution is to either add more gold useable items (20 ops/cobras/etc, 5 pistol rail amps III, or something along these lines or as the packs says "or better"

The perceived gamble is not the problem it is not living up to the purchase agreement that I entered.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

marmot 1333 wrote...

I always wonder this with people that complain about the random packs. Did you never buy baseball cards when you were growing up? Soccer Cards? Magic: The Gathering cards??

All of these "real-world" examples work the same as this Store concept.

In psychology this is called a variable ratio schedule, because you're rewarded for buying the pack but you never know when you'll hit "jackpot". "The Variable-Ratio Schedule produces the highest response rate and the most resistance to extinction." ~ The World of Psychology, page 175. This would be of great interest to someone making money of a randomized pack.

Edit: "You can trade real-life trading cards" is a valid point and does make this system feel a little more stifling.

Exactly.  The Variable-Ratio Schedule is what governs gambling.  I would argue that purchasing trading cards IS gambling.  That doesn't necessarily make it illegal gambling, however.

This thread was specifically to discuss the legality of the random packs.

And I get the points about the trading cards, but there are laws that apply to specifically Internet gambling.  That fact alone separates physical trading cards from Internet transactions, in the realm of legality.

[Sajuro]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

staindgrey wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

staindgrey wrote...

Then here's a better answer:

When
there is an alternative to get the same items free of charge, it kind
of null-and-voids the problem with charging. Paying for a pack that you
could just earn for free with a little effort is the consumer's own
choice, and they fully know before purchasing it that it is an entirely
random selection. The game makes no attempt to shy away from that.

Saying this isn't legal is a really, really big stretch.

Show me where I said "this isn't legal".

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I'm just wondering how EA can get away with this crap. Last time I checked, online gambling was illegal (at least in the U.S.).

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]

Show me where I said "this isn't legal".

Honey, that's what illegal means.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

John123453242 wrote...

Your reply to my post doesn't make any sense. Again, for the third time, if you always get cards in return, you aren't gambling. Gambling is not paying for a product. It is throwing down money with the chance of a payout, or losing your money. If you get something in return every time, you aren't gambling...

What casino game can you name where there is no chance of you losing money without getting something in return? Go ahead and try comparing this to any real gambling...

Whether or not casinos offer something similar is totally irrelevant to the question of legality.

And "If you get something in return every time, you aren't gambling..." - I don't believe this is true.  If I'm your bookie and I guarantee you'll get at least a penny back for every $100 you wager, with $100 being the minimum bet, this wouldn't be gambling by your definition.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Sajuro wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

staindgrey wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

staindgrey wrote...

Then here's a better answer:

When
there is an alternative to get the same items free of charge, it kind
of null-and-voids the problem with charging. Paying for a pack that you
could just earn for free with a little effort is the consumer's own
choice, and they fully know before purchasing it that it is an entirely
random selection. The game makes no attempt to shy away from that.

Saying this isn't legal is a really, really big stretch.

Show me where I said "this isn't legal".

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I'm just wondering how EA can get away with this crap. Last time I checked, online gambling was illegal (at least in the U.S.).

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]

Show me where I said "this isn't legal".

Honey, that's what illegal means.

Honey,

1) I said "online gambling" is illegal.

2) I said the packs APPEAR TO ME to be gambling, but I admitted my uncertainty on the matter.

3) I asked "Why isn't buying packs illegal?" - the very fact that I asked the question shows I didnot know the answer and was looking for clarification.

People need to learn how to properly interpret the written word.

Once again:

Show me where I said "Buying packs ISN'T legal" or "Buying packs IS illegal".

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 17 mai 2012 - 07:14 .

[John123453242]

Your example is you taking money and not giving me anything in return. You just took my money and charged me $99.99 to gamble. In your example, I didn't give you money for a product. If you buy packs, you are giving money for a product. You are terrible at analogies.

You say it is irrelevant that you can't think of one single form of gambling that is illigal and similar to this. That has to be a joke. Why would you question this systems legality if there is nothing similar that is illigal? This doesn't even make a little bit of sense.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

John123453242 wrote...

Your example is you taking money and not giving me anything in return. You just took my money and charged me $99.99 to gamble. In your example, I didn't give you money for a product. If you buy packs, you are giving money for a product. You are terrible at analogies.

You say it is irrelevant that you can't think of one single form of gambling that is illigal and similar to this. That has to be a joke. Why would you question this systems legality if there is nothing similar that is illigal? This doesn't even make a little bit of sense.

Honestly, I think you have some points that are worth discussing, but your responses thus far have been insulting to the point where I don't feel like you're capable of having a respectful discussion.  Enjoy the rest of your day.

[John123453242]

Says the disrespectful kid who calls others posts idiotic, after starting this thread...

[CmnDwnWrkn]

John123453242 wrote...

Says the disrespectful kid who calls others posts idiotic, after starting this thread...

I'm sorry for wasting your time with this nonsensical thread.

[John123453242]

You should be.

[COLZ7R]

Who cares if its legal or not, only a idiot or someone with a bad case of ocd would pay for something they already have payed for, everyone knows ea will eventually sell a shortcut pack like they do with most of their games so mugs will pay them again

[thepringle]

I remember, back in the early 2000s, when Yu'Gi'Oh! was big. My brother and I would go to the convenience store across the street from our house, we would get a new pack almost every day. We would, hope, hope sooooo much that we would get Blue-Eyes White Dragon or Red-Eyes Black Dragon... but we never did. We always got the same crap over and over and over again, always, we'd get a stupid mummy card or a useless trap card, we spent probably hundreds on these ten card packs and never got anything good. Well, the moral of the story is, this whole "charging money for random crap" is not a new thing and has been around for a long time.

[COLZ7R]

People seem to be missing the trading card bit, you know TRADING things you dont need/want, most people wouldnt have a problem if you could trade, you cant, so its not like a trading card system that i know

[Drawrof]

COLZ7R wrote...

People seem to be missing the trading card bit, you know TRADING things you dont need/want, most people wouldnt have a problem if you could trade, you cant, so its not like a trading card system that i know

Im sorry you're missing the point. When you buy a pack of random ( hockey, baseball, Pokemon ) cards, that is what you're doing. A secondary trading market is driven by the consumers and not the card manufacturer.  Ie you're not buying trading cards you're just buying random cards. 

The simplest answer to OP question of "How is charging real $ for random packs even legal" I'll revert to my experience. Major corporations such as EA, Microsoft and Sony is that they are very aware of any potential legal issue. I'm sure EA has a team of lawyers to ensure their store system is legal. 

Modifié par Drawrof, 17 mai 2012 - 09:18 .

[TGG-007]

DRocket wrote...

The same reason a gumball machine is legal. No one is forcing you to put a quarter in it with the chance to get a red, blue or green piece of gum.

I see what you done there.

[SmokingBmbr465]

Ever played Magic? Pokemon? Bought baseball cards?

You're welcome--now close this thread.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

The trading card analogy only goes so far. I am sure most people are aware that laws governing in-person brick-and-mortar transactions are not necessarily the same as those applicable to online transactions. Similarly, there are some different laws for online gaming than for "live" gambling.

The main reason why I asked the question is because specifically-online companies have been prosecuted for online gaming transactions. So I was wondering how the ME3 store type of transaction was different.

What also came to mind was when eBay outlawed the sale of certain types of "grab bags" where a low-value item was guaranteed, with a small chance for a rare item. This was outlawed due to the potential violation of state gaming laws.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

SmokingBmbr465 wrote...

Ever played Magic? Pokemon? Bought baseball cards?

You're welcome--now close this thread.

Yet another arrogant bull**** response.  Do you people really not understand that different laws apply to online gaming and online transactions than brick-and-mortar transactions?

Now stop it, you're in over your head and you're embarrassing yourself.

[ArtGerhardt]

It's probably not illegal, i doubt bioware or EA could get away with that, but i do consider it gambling. Yeah, every item is supposed to have a utility but when with the character cards it does feel like a gamble. It's ok for me to gamble fake credit, a.k.a my free time, but i'll never spend real money on a pack unless it's a new type of pack that guarantee's a new or upgraded weapon. then i might spend a few dollars here and there.

Modifié par ArtGerhardt, 17 mai 2012 - 09:38 .

[John123453242]

There are zero gambling laws that are more strict online than what the most strict states gambling laws are. There are zero states that outlaw trading cards. Stop being a douche.

[BoomDynamite]

It's a type of sale. Their called microtransactions. Get used to it.

[Infiltrat0r_N7]

lexiconicle wrote...

Have you heard of Pokemon?