Aller au contenu

Photo

To people who dont believe in IT


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
338 réponses à ce sujet

#301
MisterJB

MisterJB
  • Members
  • 15 587 messages

BatmanTurian wrote...
You know, it's perfectly plausible that the " wrong choices " could still work out. Maybe not be as happy but still turn out good, ya know? I don't know how to phrase it. Basically, if you are offended because you think that we are telling you you made the wrong choice, it may not even matter. Your LI or Anderson or whatever could help you break free and you could still take the Reapers down. I'm just saying that even if they go with IT, it doesn't mean the other two endings will necessarily be completely bad.

But you are not taking into account that some people like Control and Synthesis. We like what they do, we like to imagine a future for the ME universe after those choices.
I am not interested in having Anderson break Shepard free of indocrination if I did not pick Destroy because that still leaves Destroy as the only "correct" answer.

#302
Hadeedak

Hadeedak
  • Members
  • 3 623 messages
I kind of love the Stargazer scene. Of course, I see it as an adorable metaphor for humanity and Buzz Aldrin's science fiction writers.

Unfortunately, it chucked an extra helping of confusion on top of the "Wait, what just happened?" cake, so it gets a lot of flack I don't think it deserves.

And yeah, Batman's got a theory that's a lot more palatable than assuming Bioware, for the first time in Mass Effect, made two choices that were blatantly bad and one that was the ONLY RIGHT ANSWER. Beyond sleeping with Morinth. Which the game reminded you of.

#303
Soaringeagle78

Soaringeagle78
  • Members
  • 393 messages

hoodaticus wrote...

My interpretations of art do not depend on the intent of the artist.  The art speaks for itself.  Its meaning is not limited by the capacity of its creator to understand what they have created.

If a savant created a soul-shearing masterpiece on canvas, exposing the depths of the human spirit with every brushstroke, and merely thought they were drawing a plain old sunset with no hidden meaning (because of their diminished mental capacity or perhaps schizophrenia) - the art would still carry all the themes it reflected.

Artist intent is irrelevant.  If I blindfold myself and spatter paint randomly, if I pull my mask off and find I have painted an erotic love scene - then that's what the painting is.  Whether I know that or not.

IT is the best explanation for this ending no matter what Bioware says about it.  Its truth is not dependent on EC.  EC can only obsolete IT by providing an even more convincing explanation.

Well, my interpretations of art do depend on the intent of the artist. If I try to draw a square and someone sees a circle, not only would that make me a terrible artist of squares, but it also means that it was always supposed to be a square, not a circle. That person can believe that it's a circle all they want even if all evidence says that it's closer to a circle. I'll side with the artist on this one.
Saying that IT is the best possible explanation may work for you, but for me, it doesn't. By declaring that IT is true, you're also making it an absolute, which it isn't. It may turn out to be true, or it may not.

#304
balance5050

balance5050
  • Members
  • 5 245 messages

MisterJB wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
You know, it's perfectly plausible that the " wrong choices " could still work out. Maybe not be as happy but still turn out good, ya know? I don't know how to phrase it. Basically, if you are offended because you think that we are telling you you made the wrong choice, it may not even matter. Your LI or Anderson or whatever could help you break free and you could still take the Reapers down. I'm just saying that even if they go with IT, it doesn't mean the other two endings will necessarily be completely bad.

But you are not taking into account that some people like Control and Synthesis. We like what they do, we like to imagine a future for the ME universe after those choices.
I am not interested in having Anderson break Shepard free of indocrination if I did not pick Destroy because that still leaves Destroy as the only "correct" answer.


Can't please everyone, I mean if you control the reapers what would the EC show? The reapers helping the Quarians build farms? The reaper's flying into the sun? I'm just saying it's going to be hard to give everyone exactly what they want.

#305
BatmanTurian

BatmanTurian
  • Members
  • 4 735 messages

xsdob wrote...

Batman Turian, I changed my post, I tried to do it as quickly as possible but I type slowly.

I liked what you said and your verison of IT, but It's not the version I see brought up all the time. Also it's more the volume of IT post rather than the content, because they tend to eclipse and block out other discussions occurring in the thread they are posted in.

You helped me to improve my post, so thank you.


That version is one of the three going around. It's kind of a middle-ground that says the other two aren't necessarily game over.

Anyway it's no problem. I know that it's bugging you and of course I can't control the people who want to post about IT all the time. Just try to be patient until the EC. If it comes out and IT'ers are wrong, then you can say " Finally."

Maybe it would just be easier to leave a thread if it goes IT or not click on an IT thread? Might save you from the rage and heartburn if it bothers you. Again, no disrespect. Just trying to help.

#306
BatmanTurian

BatmanTurian
  • Members
  • 4 735 messages

MisterJB wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
You know, it's perfectly plausible that the " wrong choices " could still work out. Maybe not be as happy but still turn out good, ya know? I don't know how to phrase it. Basically, if you are offended because you think that we are telling you you made the wrong choice, it may not even matter. Your LI or Anderson or whatever could help you break free and you could still take the Reapers down. I'm just saying that even if they go with IT, it doesn't mean the other two endings will necessarily be completely bad.

But you are not taking into account that some people like Control and Synthesis. We like what they do, we like to imagine a future for the ME universe after those choices.
I am not interested in having Anderson break Shepard free of indocrination if I did not pick Destroy because that still leaves Destroy as the only "correct" answer.


That is fine. I'm just saying if they went with IT. If they don't, it's very well possible that all of the endings as they are are perfectly good and valid.

If I try hard enough, I can see the good in each ending. They just need to clarify it and make some parts of it more believable.

#307
hoodaticus

hoodaticus
  • Members
  • 2 025 messages

Soaringeagle78 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

My interpretations of art do not depend on the intent of the artist.  The art speaks for itself.  Its meaning is not limited by the capacity of its creator to understand what they have created.

If a savant created a soul-shearing masterpiece on canvas, exposing the depths of the human spirit with every brushstroke, and merely thought they were drawing a plain old sunset with no hidden meaning (because of their diminished mental capacity or perhaps schizophrenia) - the art would still carry all the themes it reflected.

Artist intent is irrelevant.  If I blindfold myself and spatter paint randomly, if I pull my mask off and find I have painted an erotic love scene - then that's what the painting is.  Whether I know that or not.

IT is the best explanation for this ending no matter what Bioware says about it.  Its truth is not dependent on EC.  EC can only obsolete IT by providing an even more convincing explanation.

Well, my interpretations of art do depend on the intent of the artist. If I try to draw a square and someone sees a circle, not only would that make me a terrible artist of squares, but it also means that it was always supposed to be a square, not a circle. That person can believe that it's a circle all they want even if all evidence says that it's closer to a circle. I'll side with the artist on this one.
Saying that IT is the best possible explanation may work for you, but for me, it doesn't. By declaring that IT is true, you're also making it an absolute, which it isn't. It may turn out to be true, or it may not.

The artist interpretation only matters while the art is still in their head.  Once it's worked into a medium, it has become objective reality that even the artist must respect - even if it violates their own vision.

If I write a beautifully architected program, and my intent is that it do task x, if it in fact does y, then y is the meaning of the program - not x.

My creations often fail to reflect my vision.  That's why an entire team of Quality Assurance professionals go behind me and test my work.

I determine truth based on the evidentiary standards I was trained to use while earning my Doctorate of Jurisprudence.  The evidence for IT is sufficiently greater than the evidence against it that it would undoubtedly win if the two were pitted against each other in a civil trial.  IT theorists have at least two dozen pieces of evidence in support for IT, and the opposition offers little more than the hearsay intent of the artist - an artist who has refused to confirm or deny IT.

That is why IT is true.

You have the right to weigh the facts for yourself and determine differently.  Disagreements in the weighing of evidence are why we have juries.

Modifié par hoodaticus, 18 mai 2012 - 02:35 .


#308
Sisterofshane

Sisterofshane
  • Members
  • 1 756 messages

hoodaticus wrote...


My creations often fail to reflect my vision.  That's why an entire team of Quality Assurance professionals go behind me and test my work.


You have a good point here - and I think it is important to note that the endings were left ambiguous on purpose.  They wanted us to interpret different meanings and different outcomes.  If it was just a "failed" attempt to show us the fate of the galaxy, why not tell us so?  Why not say that their work was never intended to be interpreted as such?  (And don't say it's because they didn't want to "anger" the IT'ers - there was a point in time in which IT was first being discussed in which they could have said something without any backlash, and they didn't).

#309
UrgentArchengel

UrgentArchengel
  • Members
  • 2 392 messages
Idea.
Low EMS:
-Control:Shepard is huskified.
-Destroy:Shepard becomes brain dead due to having an intense mindf***

High EMS:
-Control:Shepard is in Control, but has a mindset for wanting to control the reapers to win the war. Within the thralls of indoctrination, but he can be snapped out of it.
-Synthesis:Shepard is in Control, he wishes for peace and has that as a mind set, but he is in the thralls of Indoctrination, but can be snapped out of it.
-Destroy:Shepard is in Control, but he is not in the thralls of indoctrination. But now the Reapers have been really pissed off. Sword and Shield are weakened, Hammer is failing, and Shepard loses Anderson who tried to save him from the rubble from getting killed. Very sad scene of his death(again). Shepard is now in command of the field.

Basically I am trying to sweeten the deal. Making Control and Synthesis not that bad. While hampering Destroy a bit. Just pulling stuff out as I type.

#310
BatmanTurian

BatmanTurian
  • Members
  • 4 735 messages

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Idea.
Low EMS:
-Control:Shepard is huskified.
-Destroy:Shepard becomes brain dead due to having an intense mindf***

High EMS:
-Control:Shepard is in Control, but has a mindset for wanting to control the reapers to win the war. Within the thralls of indoctrination, but he can be snapped out of it.
-Synthesis:Shepard is in Control, he wishes for peace and has that as a mind set, but he is in the thralls of Indoctrination, but can be snapped out of it.
-Destroy:Shepard is in Control, but he is not in the thralls of indoctrination. But now the Reapers have been really pissed off. Sword and Shield are weakened, Hammer is failing, and Shepard loses Anderson who tried to save him from the rubble from getting killed. Very sad scene of his death(again). Shepard is now in command of the field.

Basically I am trying to sweeten the deal. Making Control and Synthesis not that bad. While hampering Destroy a bit. Just pulling stuff out as I type.


I like those and I can totally see those working.

#311
Tov01

Tov01
  • Members
  • 174 messages

BatmanTurian wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Idea.
Low EMS:
-Control:Shepard is huskified.
-Destroy:Shepard becomes brain dead due to having an intense mindf***

High EMS:
-Control:Shepard is in Control, but has a mindset for wanting to control the reapers to win the war. Within the thralls of indoctrination, but he can be snapped out of it.
-Synthesis:Shepard is in Control, he wishes for peace and has that as a mind set, but he is in the thralls of Indoctrination, but can be snapped out of it.
-Destroy:Shepard is in Control, but he is not in the thralls of indoctrination. But now the Reapers have been really pissed off. Sword and Shield are weakened, Hammer is failing, and Shepard loses Anderson who tried to save him from the rubble from getting killed. Very sad scene of his death(again). Shepard is now in command of the field.

Basically I am trying to sweeten the deal. Making Control and Synthesis not that bad. While hampering Destroy a bit. Just pulling stuff out as I type.


I like those and I can totally see those working.


It's certainly more palpable than the other forms of IT I've seen running around, although I would still prefer an interpretation of the ending that doesn't say that it was all just a dream.

#312
BatmanTurian

BatmanTurian
  • Members
  • 4 735 messages

Tov01 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Idea.
Low EMS:
-Control:Shepard is huskified.
-Destroy:Shepard becomes brain dead due to having an intense mindf***

High EMS:
-Control:Shepard is in Control, but has a mindset for wanting to control the reapers to win the war. Within the thralls of indoctrination, but he can be snapped out of it.
-Synthesis:Shepard is in Control, he wishes for peace and has that as a mind set, but he is in the thralls of Indoctrination, but can be snapped out of it.
-Destroy:Shepard is in Control, but he is not in the thralls of indoctrination. But now the Reapers have been really pissed off. Sword and Shield are weakened, Hammer is failing, and Shepard loses Anderson who tried to save him from the rubble from getting killed. Very sad scene of his death(again). Shepard is now in command of the field.

Basically I am trying to sweeten the deal. Making Control and Synthesis not that bad. While hampering Destroy a bit. Just pulling stuff out as I type.


I like those and I can totally see those working.


It's certainly more palpable than the other forms of IT I've seen running around, although I would still prefer an interpretation of the ending that doesn't say that it was all just a dream.


Understandable. The two main problems people seem to have other than " lol stupid fanfiction" or " lol denial" is " I don't want it to be a dream" or " Bioware sold me an incomplete game." And I can understand why that would bother people.

#313
balance5050

balance5050
  • Members
  • 5 245 messages

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Idea.
Low EMS:
-Control:Shepard is huskified.
-Destroy:Shepard becomes brain dead due to having an intense mindf***

High EMS:
-Control:Shepard is in Control, but has a mindset for wanting to control the reapers to win the war. Within the thralls of indoctrination, but he can be snapped out of it.
-Synthesis:Shepard is in Control, he wishes for peace and has that as a mind set, but he is in the thralls of Indoctrination, but can be snapped out of it.
-Destroy:Shepard is in Control, but he is not in the thralls of indoctrination. But now the Reapers have been really pissed off. Sword and Shield are weakened, Hammer is failing, and Shepard loses Anderson who tried to save him from the rubble from getting killed. Very sad scene of his death(again). Shepard is now in command of the field.

Basically I am trying to sweeten the deal. Making Control and Synthesis not that bad. While hampering Destroy a bit. Just pulling stuff out as I type.


I actually always thought it would be something like this just because destroy has like 3 endings, control has 2, and synthesis has one.

#314
BatmanTurian

BatmanTurian
  • Members
  • 4 735 messages

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Idea.
Low EMS:
-Control:Shepard is huskified.
-Destroy:Shepard becomes brain dead due to having an intense mindf***

High EMS:
-Control:Shepard is in Control, but has a mindset for wanting to control the reapers to win the war. Within the thralls of indoctrination, but he can be snapped out of it.
-Synthesis:Shepard is in Control, he wishes for peace and has that as a mind set, but he is in the thralls of Indoctrination, but can be snapped out of it.
-Destroy:Shepard is in Control, but he is not in the thralls of indoctrination. But now the Reapers have been really pissed off. Sword and Shield are weakened, Hammer is failing, and Shepard loses Anderson who tried to save him from the rubble from getting killed. Very sad scene of his death(again). Shepard is now in command of the field.

Basically I am trying to sweeten the deal. Making Control and Synthesis not that bad. While hampering Destroy a bit. Just pulling stuff out as I type.


Oh, I was just thinking maybe Shepard shoots Anderson instead of the pod for Destruction. Not on purpose mind you, but because the Reapers are guiding him to do it. That's plausible.

#315
hoodaticus

hoodaticus
  • Members
  • 2 025 messages

Tov01 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Idea.
Low EMS:
-Control:Shepard is huskified.
-Destroy:Shepard becomes brain dead due to having an intense mindf***

High EMS:
-Control:Shepard is in Control, but has a mindset for wanting to control the reapers to win the war. Within the thralls of indoctrination, but he can be snapped out of it.
-Synthesis:Shepard is in Control, he wishes for peace and has that as a mind set, but he is in the thralls of Indoctrination, but can be snapped out of it.
-Destroy:Shepard is in Control, but he is not in the thralls of indoctrination. But now the Reapers have been really pissed off. Sword and Shield are weakened, Hammer is failing, and Shepard loses Anderson who tried to save him from the rubble from getting killed. Very sad scene of his death(again). Shepard is now in command of the field.

Basically I am trying to sweeten the deal. Making Control and Synthesis not that bad. While hampering Destroy a bit. Just pulling stuff out as I type.


I like those and I can totally see those working.


It's certainly more palpable than the other forms of IT I've seen running around, although I would still prefer an interpretation of the ending that doesn't say that it was all just a dream.

This would be a new ending.  None of the new ending would be a dream (well, maybe most of it would be a dream unless you chose destroy and had high EMS).  Only about 5 minutes would necessarily be a dream.

#316
magneticpolarshift

magneticpolarshift
  • Members
  • 61 messages
I simply hope the IT will be the truth because it helps explain the nonsensical ending. The ME series are the most enjoyable games I've ever played, but the ending does blow major chunks. No one can adequately explain how Shep all of a sudden gets a magical gun, among many other major issues at the end, editing errors I guess.

#317
Tov01

Tov01
  • Members
  • 174 messages

hoodaticus wrote...

Tov01 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Idea.
Low EMS:
-Control:Shepard is huskified.
-Destroy:Shepard becomes brain dead due to having an intense mindf***

High EMS:
-Control:Shepard is in Control, but has a mindset for wanting to control the reapers to win the war. Within the thralls of indoctrination, but he can be snapped out of it.
-Synthesis:Shepard is in Control, he wishes for peace and has that as a mind set, but he is in the thralls of Indoctrination, but can be snapped out of it.
-Destroy:Shepard is in Control, but he is not in the thralls of indoctrination. But now the Reapers have been really pissed off. Sword and Shield are weakened, Hammer is failing, and Shepard loses Anderson who tried to save him from the rubble from getting killed. Very sad scene of his death(again). Shepard is now in command of the field.

Basically I am trying to sweeten the deal. Making Control and Synthesis not that bad. While hampering Destroy a bit. Just pulling stuff out as I type.


I like those and I can totally see those working.


It's certainly more palpable than the other forms of IT I've seen running around, although I would still prefer an interpretation of the ending that doesn't say that it was all just a dream.

This would be a new ending.  None of the new ending would be a dream (well, maybe most of it would be a dream unless you chose destroy and had high EMS).  Only about 5 minutes would necessarily be a dream.


One of my problems with IT is that we would still have to play through those five, almost universally reviled minutes until you get to the real ending. If they were adding new endings (which they're not, but just hypothetically speaking), I would prefer them to cut out the middle man and put in new ending directly. It just doesn’t seem to add much to the story, for me at least.

Modifié par Tov01, 18 mai 2012 - 02:59 .


#318
ZackG312

ZackG312
  • Members
  • 643 messages

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Idea.
Low EMS:
-Control:Shepard is huskified.
-Destroy:Shepard becomes brain dead due to having an intense mindf***

High EMS:
-Control:Shepard is in Control, but has a mindset for wanting to control the reapers to win the war. Within the thralls of indoctrination, but he can be snapped out of it.
-Synthesis:Shepard is in Control, he wishes for peace and has that as a mind set, but he is in the thralls of Indoctrination, but can be snapped out of it.
-Destroy:Shepard is in Control, but he is not in the thralls of indoctrination. But now the Reapers have been really pissed off. Sword and Shield are weakened, Hammer is failing, and Shepard loses Anderson who tried to save him from the rubble from getting killed. Very sad scene of his death(again). Shepard is now in command of the field.

Basically I am trying to sweeten the deal. Making Control and Synthesis not that bad. While hampering Destroy a bit. Just pulling stuff out as I type.

that would be cool

#319
BatmanTurian

BatmanTurian
  • Members
  • 4 735 messages

Tov01 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Tov01 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Idea.
Low EMS:
-Control:Shepard is huskified.
-Destroy:Shepard becomes brain dead due to having an intense mindf***

High EMS:
-Control:Shepard is in Control, but has a mindset for wanting to control the reapers to win the war. Within the thralls of indoctrination, but he can be snapped out of it.
-Synthesis:Shepard is in Control, he wishes for peace and has that as a mind set, but he is in the thralls of Indoctrination, but can be snapped out of it.
-Destroy:Shepard is in Control, but he is not in the thralls of indoctrination. But now the Reapers have been really pissed off. Sword and Shield are weakened, Hammer is failing, and Shepard loses Anderson who tried to save him from the rubble from getting killed. Very sad scene of his death(again). Shepard is now in command of the field.

Basically I am trying to sweeten the deal. Making Control and Synthesis not that bad. While hampering Destroy a bit. Just pulling stuff out as I type.


I like those and I can totally see those working.


It's certainly more palpable than the other forms of IT I've seen running around, although I would still prefer an interpretation of the ending that doesn't say that it was all just a dream.

This would be a new ending.  None of the new ending would be a dream (well, maybe most of it would be a dream unless you chose destroy and had high EMS).  Only about 5 minutes would necessarily be a dream.


One of my problems with IT is that we would still have to play through those five, almost universally reviled minutes until you get to the real ending. If they were adding new endings (which they're not, but just hypothetically
speaking), I would prefer them to cut out the middle man and put in new ending directly. It just doesn’t seem to add much to the story, for me at least.

Maybe they could make it shorter.... like maybe the ending cutscenes we have now are replaced with whatever directly happens in the EC according to your choices?

#320
Clayless

Clayless
  • Members
  • 7 051 messages
Isn't there a thread darting around here called:

How many people didn't pick destroy and failed the test?

Or something similar to that? Yeah, there's your answer as to why people hate the IT. If you think the IT is right more power to you, but no it's not the actual ending.

#321
Soaringeagle78

Soaringeagle78
  • Members
  • 393 messages
 @hoodaticus (I'm on an iPhone, so it's very difficult for me to quote)If IT is forced to be true based on more facts that support it than those that deny it, then I'm definitely not interested in more DLC/games from Bioware because if the artist managed to turn x into y, then that artist won't receive my attention as much until they can finish a task x with the result of x. If I commission someone for x and they give me y, then I will definitely be upset because I was told I'd receive what I thought would be x.Even if IT makes more sense to some, to me personally, it's a complete mindf*** that I'd rather not accept. I'll just stick with my load of crap and the icing that will be added to it this summer. <_<
Sorry if I came off as dumb or confusing.

#322
jla0644

jla0644
  • Members
  • 341 messages

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Isn't there a thread darting around here called:

How many people didn't pick destroy and failed the test?

Or something similar to that? Yeah, there's your answer as to why people hate the IT. If you think the IT is right more power to you, but no it's not the actual ending.


This, and statements like "If you picked anything other than Destroy then Bioware indoctrinated you".

That's not necessarily what makes me not believe the IT, there are plenty of other reasons for that. But these are the types of statements that make some indoctrination theorists very annoying.

#323
Tov01

Tov01
  • Members
  • 174 messages

jla0644 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Isn't there a thread darting around here called:

How many people didn't pick destroy and failed the test?

Or something similar to that? Yeah, there's your answer as to why people hate the IT. If you think the IT is right more power to you, but no it's not the actual ending.


This, and statements like "If you picked anything other than Destroy then Bioware indoctrinated you".

That's not necessarily what makes me not believe the IT, there are plenty of other reasons for that. But these are the types of statements that make some indoctrination theorists very annoying.


I know! Some of them sound too much like conspiracy theorist and similar people for my liking, and they just rub me the wrong way.

#324
balance5050

balance5050
  • Members
  • 5 245 messages
Yeah, some people believe their opinion a little too hard, such is the internet though....

#325
frozngecko

frozngecko
  • Members
  • 594 messages
Fact is I don't care. Do I believe in IT: Yes. Did BioWare screw the pooch with the ending? Yes. Could BioWare do better: Yes. Would I be sad if it was not IT but still just as, if not more awesome? No.