338 réponses à ce sujet

[BatmanTurian]

Ji99saw wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

I like the IT... as fanfiction, because is no other thing.

Sometimes the "evidence" is rather funny, like "Hey! It's the same white light, indoctrination!" or "Shepard has blue eyes, like TIM, indoctrination!"

Se, this is the problem. You choose to express your opinion by belittling those of a differing opinion. Many believers do this too. In both cases it's wrong and should stop.

But it is Fan Fiction until it is actually confirmed by Bioware, So he is Right

Noooo... it's an interpretation of the ending. Do you belittle anyone who gives their opinion on what happened at the end of 2001 by calling them silly fanfic writers?

This. An interpretation is not fanfic. If I write a story where Shepard went on a date with Harbinger, that would be fanfiction ( and really stupid). A literary interpretation is not the same as shipping characters and writing alternate realities.

Stop just Stop, because your telling me just because you Think something  happened a certain way in a Story and has never been confirmed by the Creators of that story is true because you interpreted it that way? WOW!

So we can say whatever we want and it's Lore because that's the way I interpret it?

By the way it was all a bedtime story given by Stargazer and none of it actually happened that's the way I interpret it and that scene now makes sense

I never said it was lore or canon. Don't put words in my mouth. An interpretation is just that: an opinion on what the events and people in a story mean or symbolize. Fan-fiction and Literary Interpretation are not the same thing. You obviously did not pay attention in English class or whatever class it is in your country where you analyze stories like Of Mice and Men and The Outsiders.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 17 mai 2012 - 09:08 .

[Ji99saw]

RavenEyry wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

Stop just Stop, because your telling me just because you Think something  happened a certain way in a Story and has never been confirmed by the Creators of that story is true because you interpreted it that way? WOW!

So we can say whatever we want and it's Lore because that's the way I interpret it?

No, I'm saying I'm entitled to my opinion and entitled to have others not belittle me for my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't give you the right to be rude to those who don't share it.

I wasn't being rude I just wanted to know of what was just said to me.

BTW I have my own ending, I was all a Bedtime Story by Stargazer to put his grandson to sleep. That's how I interpret it and it has to be true Right? And everyone is entiltled to thei own opinion but when you try to state that it is absolute truth and everyone else is dumb expect to run into problems

[liggy002]

Warp92 wrote...

Well not all people who don't believe in IT are aholes for an example I do not really support IT, yet I believe everyone is entitled to believe what they want

Right.  This is the sort of thinking that I support.  Believe what you want but don't flame others for what they believe in.

Modifié par liggy002, 17 mai 2012 - 09:08 .

[balance5050]

mauro2222 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
The control comes first.... the moment one loses the will to fight/destroy the reapers is when one becomes indocatrinated.

How Neandertal.
Also, you didn't present an argument supporting your theory that TIM was indocrinated since the beginning. Just spouted some absolutism.

If TIM was indocrinated since "Evolution" why didn't Sovereign use him? Why did he help Shepard destroy the Collectors rather than deliver his corpse to Harbinger? 
Why was Sanctuary attacked by the Reapers if the Indocrination did not come later thus rendering TIM harmless?

My take on this is that indoc., or the huskification process... works 95% of the times. The other 5%, it drives you crazy and adds a little bit of lust for power. That's why TIM it's a threat to the Reapers than an asset.

Nah, every cycle has it's own Cerberus and by extension, its own TIM. He's just a reaper pawn.

[The Protheans]

IT, has loads of plot holes.

Like
- If shepard is a female, how does she get indoctrinated?

[mauro2222]

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
The control comes first.... the moment one loses the will to fight/destroy the reapers is when one becomes indocatrinated.

How Neandertal.
Also, you didn't present an argument supporting your theory that TIM was indocrinated since the beginning. Just spouted some absolutism.

If TIM was indocrinated since "Evolution" why didn't Sovereign use him? Why did he help Shepard destroy the Collectors rather than deliver his corpse to Harbinger? 
Why was Sanctuary attacked by the Reapers if the Indocrination did not come later thus rendering TIM harmless?

My take on this is that indoc., or the huskification process... works 95% of the times. The other 5%, it drives you crazy and adds a little bit of lust for power. That's why TIM it's a threat to the Reapers than an asset.

Nah, every cycle has it's own Cerberus and by extension, its own TIM. He's just a reaper pawn.

I don't see how he's a Reaper pawn when those two factions are fighting each other.

[liggy002]

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
The control comes first.... the moment one loses the will to fight/destroy the reapers is when one becomes indocatrinated.

How Neandertal.
Also, you didn't present an argument supporting your theory that TIM was indocrinated since the beginning. Just spouted some absolutism.

If TIM was indocrinated since "Evolution" why didn't Sovereign use him? Why did he help Shepard destroy the Collectors rather than deliver his corpse to Harbinger? 
Why was Sanctuary attacked by the Reapers if the Indocrination did not come later thus rendering TIM harmless?

My take on this is that indoc., or the huskification process... works 95% of the times. The other 5%, it drives you crazy and adds a little bit of lust for power. That's why TIM it's a threat to the Reapers than an asset.

Nah, every cycle has it's own Cerberus and by extension, its own TIM. He's just a reaper pawn.

To answer your question, MisterJB, TIM might not have been fully indoctrinated at that point.  In Mass Effect 3 he was.  As for Sanctuary being attacked by the Reapers.... how do you think the Reapers knew about Sanctuary?  They had a sleeper agent and TIM told them about it.  Also, if I were the Reapers and I wanted to make Shepard believe that he could control us, I would attack Sanctuary too to make it seem like the Reapers are afraid of being controlled.  So, this way, if Shepard and TIM saw this, they would believe that the Reapers could be controlled.  The attack on Sanctuary was all a ploy in my opinion to get others to believe that the Reapers could be controlled when in reality they couldn't.

Modifié par liggy002, 17 mai 2012 - 09:13 .

[ZackG312]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Question. What plot holes does IT have? Just curious, like a healthy human should be.

When and where Shepard is exposed to all this Reaper tech and indoctrination.
Specifics please.

Edit: Could a "fan's" "Interpretation" be considered a fanfic? As it is a peice of fiction created from a fan's mind?

Shep get exposed to reaper tech through out all of ME.  Indoctrinarion?  The only thing I can think of would be Object Rho, which nobody can deny, affected his mind due to the vision it give Shep.  Of course Arrival didn't happen for some people.

I got a question about Object Rho, when Shepard sees the lady with glowing eyes is that just an hallucination.

[UrgentArchengel]

The Protheans wrote...

IT, has loads of plot holes.

Like
- If shepard is a female, how does she get indoctrinated?

If she choose either Control or Synthesis...it's possible, but it's just a theory, not fact so nothing to worry about too much.

[balance5050]

Ji99saw wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

Stop just Stop, because your telling me just because you Think something  happened a certain way in a Story and has never been confirmed by the Creators of that story is true because you interpreted it that way? WOW!

So we can say whatever we want and it's Lore because that's the way I interpret it?

No, I'm saying I'm entitled to my opinion and entitled to have others not belittle me for my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't give you the right to be rude to those who don't share it.

I wasn't being rude I just wanted to know of what was just said to me.

BTW I have my own ending, I was all a Bedtime Story by Stargazer to put his grandson to sleep. That's how I interpret it and it has to be true Right? And everyone is entiltled to thei own opinion but when you try to state that it is absolute truth and everyone else is dumb expect to run into problems

The bedtime story is one interpretation at least;

"The Stargazer scene concept was taken from a seventh grade student from Berlin who sent a letter to Casey Hudson.
The boy stated that "It would be cool if Shepard had a child and this child was roaming around a cave and found a prophecy and knew what to do about it because he's Shepard's son."Casey Hudson stitched that letter to his office door as a reminder that everybody should get at least, one piece of the ending which was the same for every player."

[MisterJB]

balance5050 wrote...
His role was to be the leader of the splinter group that tries to control the reapers, this splinter group exists in EVERY cycle, it's another layer of control and it's why Reaper artifacts are scattered around the galaxy to begin with; to indoctrinate people. Refer to The A.I. on Thessia, The Arrival DLC, and Evolution for the info.

The more likely hypothesis is that wanting to control the Reapers is just a norm of sapient minds as much as ambition. These people start playing with Reaper technolgoy and they end up Indocrinated.
If you remember correctly, the only reason TIM wasn't turned into an Husk by the Monolith was due to indirect contact. So, clearly, that Monolith wasn't meant to subtly indocrinate anyone but rather to convert entire populations into Husks.

And just answer this. If TIM was indocrinated in "Evolution" why did the Reapers attack Sanctuary? In such a case, it would not be a threat for them.
Unless the Indocrination came afterwards.

Modifié par MisterJB, 17 mai 2012 - 09:13 .

[The Protheans]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

The Protheans wrote...

IT, has loads of plot holes.

Like
- If shepard is a female, how does she get indoctrinated?

If she choose either Control or Synthesis...it's possible, but it's just a theory, not fact so nothing to worry about too much.

Still doesn't explain how females can get indoctrinated.

[UrgentArchengel]

ZackG312 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Question. What plot holes does IT have? Just curious, like a healthy human should be.

When and where Shepard is exposed to all this Reaper tech and indoctrination.
Specifics please.

Edit: Could a "fan's" "Interpretation" be considered a fanfic? As it is a peice of fiction created from a fan's mind?

Shep get exposed to reaper tech through out all of ME.  Indoctrinarion?  The only thing I can think of would be Object Rho, which nobody can deny, affected his mind due to the vision it give Shep.  Of course Arrival didn't happen for some people.

I got a question about Object Rho, when Shepard sees the lady with glowing eyes is that just an hallucination.

Of course 
Mod course it may be one, I like to call it Indoc. Vision.

[balance5050]

mauro2222 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
The control comes first.... the moment one loses the will to fight/destroy the reapers is when one becomes indocatrinated.

How Neandertal.
Also, you didn't present an argument supporting your theory that TIM was indocrinated since the beginning. Just spouted some absolutism.

If TIM was indocrinated since "Evolution" why didn't Sovereign use him? Why did he help Shepard destroy the Collectors rather than deliver his corpse to Harbinger? 
Why was Sanctuary attacked by the Reapers if the Indocrination did not come later thus rendering TIM harmless?

My take on this is that indoc., or the huskification process... works 95% of the times. The other 5%, it drives you crazy and adds a little bit of lust for power. That's why TIM it's a threat to the Reapers than an asset.

Nah, every cycle has it's own Cerberus and by extension, its own TIM. He's just a reaper pawn.

I don't see how he's a Reaper pawn when those two factions are fighting each other.

They don't actaully fight eachother until you get to Sanctuary.

"It's about time they started fighing eachother." -Shepard

Modifié par balance5050, 17 mai 2012 - 09:18 .

[TsaiMeLemoni]

The Protheans wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

The Protheans wrote...

IT, has loads of plot holes.

Like
- If shepard is a female, how does she get indoctrinated?

If she choose either Control or Synthesis...it's possible, but it's just a theory, not fact so nothing to worry about too much.

Still doesn't explain how females can get indoctrinated.

Well like he said it's just a theory, no big whoop. We're only all idiots for not believing.

[balance5050]

The Protheans wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

The Protheans wrote...

IT, has loads of plot holes.

Like
- If shepard is a female, how does she get indoctrinated?

If she choose either Control or Synthesis...it's possible, but it's just a theory, not fact so nothing to worry about too much.

Still doesn't explain how females can get indoctrinated.

OBVIOUS TROLL ALERT!!!

[UrgentArchengel]

The Protheans wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

The Protheans wrote...

IT, has loads of plot holes.

Like
- If shepard is a female, how does she get indoctrinated?

If she choose either Control or Synthesis...it's possible, but it's just a theory, not fact so nothing to worry about too much.

Still doesn't explain how females can get indoctrinated.

What's the difference?  Why would a female Indoct differently then a male?  I'd think it be the same.

[Rip504]

UrgentArchengel wrote...


Shep get exposed to reaper tech through out all of ME.  Indoctrinarion?  The only thing I can think of would be Object Rho, which nobody can deny, affected his mind due to the vision it give Shep.  Of course Arrival didn't happen for some people.

Exactly and this is not specifics. As I say Shepard was never exposed to Reaper Tech for a long enough time. Sure maybe short exposure here and there,but where? And When?

During ME1? Not IMO
During ME2? Maybe potentially in short burst. Aboard the Dead Reaper? Only for a few short hours,if that long? Not a day for sure. Arrival did not happen so? When? Collector base? I doubt it. Everyone else seems fine. When  TIM rebuilt Shepard? Well Shepard never seem to blindly follow or believe TIM,so I doubt it.

ME3? On Earth,when I have had little to no Reaper exposure throughout the franchise? On Mars? Perhaps Liara the Shadow Broker worked in secret with the Reapers to Indoctrinate Shepard? Any of the Homeworlds? Aboard the Citadel perhaps? TIM's base,which we also only spend a short amount of time in.? Maybe TIM does try to indoctrinate Shepard during their final conversation,but "obviously" fails.

I asked for specifics,which I had to give. What am I missing? What does every Shepard experience that creates this? What prolonged exposure to Reaper tech do we ALL have? I am asking a honest question? Not being a smarta**.

Modifié par Rip504, 17 mai 2012 - 09:21 .

[EsterCloat]

balance5050 wrote...

The Protheans wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

The Protheans wrote...

IT, has loads of plot holes.

Like
- If shepard is a female, how does she get indoctrinated?

If she choose either Control or Synthesis...it's possible, but it's just a theory, not fact so nothing to worry about too much.

Still doesn't explain how females can get indoctrinated.

OBVIOUS TROLL ALERT!!!

Wait, dude's trolling? That went way over my head.

[RavenEyry]

Ji99saw wrote...

I wasn't being rude I just wanted to know of what was just said to me.

BTW I have my own ending, I was all a Bedtime Story by Stargazer to put his grandson to sleep. That's how I interpret it and it has to be true Right? And everyone is entiltled to thei own opinion but when you try to state that it is absolute truth and everyone else is dumb expect to run into problems

I'm sorry if I misinterpreted you. I agree with you, neither side should express their opinion as fact.

[UrgentArchengel]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

The Protheans wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

The Protheans wrote...

IT, has loads of plot holes.

Like
- If shepard is a female, how does she get indoctrinated?

If she choose either Control or Synthesis...it's possible, but it's just a theory, not fact so nothing to worry about too much.

Still doesn't explain how females can get indoctrinated.

Well like he said it's just a theory, no big whoop. We're only all idiots for not believing.

Who is calling you an idiot?  I am not.  Honestly, I couldn't give a crap whether IT is real or not.  Just wish I wasn't called dogmatic for like ing it.

[balance5050]

EsterCloat wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

The Protheans wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

The Protheans wrote...

IT, has loads of plot holes.

Like
- If shepard is a female, how does she get indoctrinated?

If she choose either Control or Synthesis...it's possible, but it's just a theory, not fact so nothing to worry about too much.

Still doesn't explain how females can get indoctrinated.

OBVIOUS TROLL ALERT!!!

Wait, dude's trolling? That went way over my head.

Yeah, ignore them to further intelligent conversation. Gender has no bearing on this. 

[dreamgazer]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

Well like he said it's just a theory, no big whoop. We're only all idiots for not believing.

There have been several occasions where I haven't seen a symbol or interpretation in a piece of art until someone else nudged me in a certain direction, and I consider myself to not be a complete fumbling moron when it comes to picking up on such things.

Not ascribing to an interpretation, or not picking up on it at first, does not reflect on intelligence.  

Modifié par dreamgazer, 17 mai 2012 - 09:21 .

[MisterJB]

liggy002 wrote...
As for Sanctuary being attacked by the Reapers.... how do you think the Reapers knew about Sanctuary?  They had a sleeper agent and TIM told them about it.  Also, if I were the Reapers and I wanted to make Shepard believe that he could control us, I would attack Sanctuary too to make it seem like the Reapers are afraid of being controlled.  So, this way, if Shepard and TIM saw this, they would believe that the Reapers could be controlled.  The attack on Sanctuary was all a ploy in my opinion to get others to believe that the Reapers could be controlled when in reality they couldn't.

The Reapers had no way of knowing Shepard would be at Sanctuary and they have no need to come up with ploys to fool TIM since he is already indocrinated in this theory and Sanctuary had actually proven Reaper forces, at least, could be controlled. TIM already believes the Reapers can be controlled.

[kookie28]

I can't believe you guys didn't know anyone with ovaries can't be indoctrinated. DON'T YOU SEE THE EVIDENCE?