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combat tactics on xbox360 too hectic?

Débuté par Guest_Lohe_* , déc. 09 2009 10:53

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#1
Guest_Lohe_*
Posté 09 décembre 2009 - 10:53

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Here there.
 
Because I dont know any other Xbox360 gamer for DAO in real I want to ask you if you noticed the same. I have finished the game one time. Nearby 70 hours. In several fights it is just too hectic to keep your group alive, even if you set up properly their tactics. I often saw myself just focussing the 4 healthbars to the left. If the group members tactics are about to fail due to several reasons, I jumped manually to the character to activate a potion for example.
 
On XBOX its "Press LT (the game pauses then), then navigate to fast healing or the wanted action, then "A" and you get thrown back to the game". You have to do this several times under several circumstances. So my fights mainly were a LT, Potion, back to game, again LT, switching character, doing again just one action for this character, again back to game, and again LT.

The fights were really like a stuttering movie for me. Its not like that Im too lazy to jump into the LT-Menu, but I had to to do it VERY often and I had to focus these 4 healthbars VERY often too. After I defeated one enemy I was allowed to have a very short look to the battlefield and to select another enemy. After attacking the same game mechanics occurs...LT, Pause, Potion or any other action, next char, again LT....in short: focussing the 4 healthbars instead of a calm and nice situation.

So I dont know, but I got the feeling, that combat in DAO for xbox360 are REALLY hectic to me. I have set up the character tactics properly I guess. For example: If health<90% - drink potion....if mana < 50% - drink lyrium potion and so on...

The circumstance that you can just steer your character in a 3rd person perspective means, that you dont have any other possibilities to watch the status your team members. The only possibility to do so is watching their health/mana bars in my opinion. So you are forced to manage them nearby manually beside your own character even if you have setup the group tactics in a good way.

Due to this hectic gameplay (well, its called ACTION-RPG anyway) I would like to be able to give my teammates more than just one order. I guess thats the problem with my game experience. Or maybe its just the damage a way too high (because my healthbars went down very very fast in most of the battles). So mainly my game was just watching the healthbars and to pause, to switch for one action to the wanted character and to do so for the other 2 as well, beside my own one. I dont know how your game experiences are in this coherence, so I just want to ask, how your game in combat is like.

This isnt a thread bashing the xbox version or the lame "I prefering other games beside DAO"...I just want to know, if your game was hectic too. Im just wondered, because its called a rpg. Is it the same on the PC version of the game?

(Im from germany, so I beg your pardon if there are any grammar errors. But Im sure, you get the point. Thanks)

Modifié par Lohe, 09 décembre 2009 - 10:59 .

#2
Recycled Human
Posté 09 décembre 2009 - 11:02

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This post was perfectly coherent, probably better than those who speak English as a primary language.



As for the issue you are having it is common. As I'm an xbox player myself I know all too well the 'pause perform action drink potion etc.' the difference is that I actually enjoy the micromanaging.



Bioware didn't seem to want this to be the only way to play, they developed the difficulty settings and tactics as a way to fluidly control characters without too much user input.



My suggestion thus is to post your tactics per character and try setting difficulty to easy. We can then examin your tactics to understand what might cause certain actions from not triggering. But definitely the difficulty slider would allow on it's own for you to effortlessly play through this game with minimal pausing.



Also, there is kindof a way to assign multiple actions to your team, by telling them to do an action the. Telling them another at the start of the first action.



Hope this helps!

#3
TheNecroFiend
Posté 09 décembre 2009 - 11:20

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I generaly play on hard and havent found the gameplay to hectic. I also enjoy micromanaging so maybe thats why. What I want to know is if there is any way to setup a pickpocket tactic. I can't seem to find pickpocket on the "use ability" list. I find having Rogues in your party makeup to be a chore though. In the early game I have to switch to the rogue and manualy postion them which is annoying. And the lack of a pickpocket tactic even more so.

#4
Guest_Lohe_*
Posté 09 décembre 2009 - 11:34

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Hi there.

I dont know all english translations of the actions for my characters, but generally I first train them in tactics
to get more slots for to assign with combat actions.On top of the tactic screen its on all of my group members the same :"If health < 90% - drink medium potion", just to be sure they dont die too fast. On Morrigan (she is my healer) the second slot is: "If mana <50% - drink medium lyrium potion". Allistair is my "tank". His tactic slots
are assignd with his main common actions, just like the aggressive ones to force the enmies to choose him as target and to secure the other group members, specially Morrigan of course. All of the other slots are
assigned with aggressive combat skills, like Ice, lightning, and so on and all group members are assigned to attack the same target as I do as main character to focus the damage output just on one enemy. At the end
all of my assigned actions for my group are logical to me.

But even if done so its just the same: A battle begins and after a few moments Im surrounded by the enemy. Allistairs healthbar starts to begin lower as my one do the same. Thats the point where I have first
to press LT. One time for my own health status, and one time more for Allistairs. 2 breaks in the gameflow lets say. Between both the game starts again for a very few moments up Im again in the pause menu to
navigate to Allistair and to perform an action manually (mainly to drink a potion). Meanwhile more damage occures to the other 2 group members too. So you can see, with upgoing combat phases you are just
navigating to your members and to perform necessary actions manually, because the tactic system doesnt unburden the main character imo. I dont know, what Im doing wrong, because my tactic system is good as it
looks, but it fails really often, so all the things claimed there have to be done manually at some points of the game. And thats just a really hectic thing.

Well, I will start over a new game soon, maybe end of the week. Up then Im interested in collecting strategies
from other xbox gamers. Ill try to lower the difficult in that game, maybe it does help a lot. For to get a look what Im writing about you can simply deactivate all of your tactics. At tis point you have to do everything manually - and this is how my game works generally (oh, of course all of my tactics arent deactivated;)).

Modifié par Lohe, 09 décembre 2009 - 11:42 .

#5
You Are Here
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 12:52

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Hi there, Lohe! Quick question for you -- at what point do you have Morrigan casting Heal? Perhaps one of your top tactics for her might be "Alistair <75% = Cast Heal". Better still, have her use "Ally:Any <75% = Cast Heal". Don't forget to have her use Regen, if she has it.



I'm on the 360, too, and rarely have to pause/drink. Like you, I'm not a big fan of stop-and-go battling. I'd much rather set my folks up and let them go to work. Also, like you, I use Morrigan as my healer and she does pretty well at keeping everything in check. Of course, that means she doesn't have many other tactics slots open for offensive spells but so be it. She keeps the group alive and the group makes the enemies dead. Good trade-off.



I'm still working on a tactic to get her to cast Group Heal. Haven't fully worked it out yet, but I'm thinking it may involve the Jump To instruction. Good luck to you. I hope you can get it worked out so you don't have to micromanage your battles.

#6
Phil5000
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 01:09

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This is the single biggest issue of the game for me. The combat is very fast and very unforgiving. In the vast majority of battles, even with lowly mercs or bandit types, you can easily find yourself getting wiped out very quickly if you aren't a hundred percent on the ball. It's so fast and hectic that if you concentrate on a particular character for too long, to move your archer out of the way a bit or something, you can find that another character just got killed because he was being pounded and ignored his Tactic to take a health poultice. It's just so damn fast!

The only way I could cope was to pause constantly to assess the situation and issue commands... which I hate. Micromanage everyone in the use of their talents and stuff... which I hate. And take over control of the mage nearly all the time to heal and cast crowd control spells constantly... which I hate.

What I want to do is set everyone's behavior and then let them do their thing while I enjoy fighting my own character, but that's just not possible, even on Normal.

It's good that you can adjust the difficulty but I'll be damned if I'm going to play on Casual, which is basically whimp mode. I've been playing these games for years and I'll be god damned if I'm doing that (but I had to twice during the game).

In the end I managed ok but the need for micromanaging and the heavy reliance on magic spoiled it for me to some degree. I don't want to say it's too hard because everyone is different and it forces you to approach each battle carefully and not go rushing in. But maybe an option to slow the action down a bit would be good so I can keep up with it without having to pause constantly.

Modifié par Phil5000, 10 décembre 2009 - 01:24 .

#7
JHorwath
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 02:08

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Lohe wrote...

Here there.
 
 
On XBOX its "Press LT (the game pauses then), then navigate to fast healing or the wanted action, then "A" and you get thrown back to the game". You have to do this several times under several circumstances. So my fights mainly were a LT, Potion, back to game, again LT, switching character, doing again just one action for this character, again back to game, and again LT.



Set the left trigger function to hold instead of toggle and you can give every party member a command before you exit out.

When you get better at the game you don't have to pause as much.  It takes a few play throughs to get the characters just right for your playstyle.  At least it did for me.Image IPB

Modifié par JHorwath, 10 décembre 2009 - 02:11 .

#8
Recycled Human
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 02:16

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Phil5000 : I know how you feel, it's almost a blow to my self-esteem dropping below nightmare and I'll do anything to prevent that. Unfortunately, the game seems robe geared towards this micromanagement style. I'm supposing it's to give you the full control you might miss from turn based action (something I wish they implemented but understand that they didn't want to break immersion more than it already is.) I feel this is a delicate balance and,while I don't mind micromanaging, I do understand how it would be upsetting not to play at what you feel your skill level is. I still recommend bumping down to casual for an overall better fel, remember this is just a game, it should be fun for you. I only feel like I'm having fun hen I complete the highest level of challenge. Though others may find it more fun simply to own everything with minimal input. Still others might find it most fun just to rp your character.



I recommend figuring out what you want to get out of the game and then building the game around those ideas.



Good luck.

#9
Guest_Lohe_*
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 02:26

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Hi

Im pleased, that Im not the only one with problems I mentioned. Its just too fast paced in combat or the inflicted damage by the enemy is just a bit too high. Beside this there is really a good spectator perspective missing (to figure out: Make a group just out of close combattants...youll see nothing except colours, effects and so on). Well. I can live with that anyway.

I have had a game a few moments ago, just to test it out again. Morrigan will cast heal if Health is down under 90%, @you are here. Its just like phil said...the only way to keep your group constantly alive is to pause. And thats done really often. Maybe thats just the case for some special group setups. Will have a look on that a later game.

But I found out something else a few moments ago: Since now I have played with "Pause when LT was triggered one time". Now, I changed that option and I have to hold down LT, but can add stacks of orders to my group members (such like: drink Potion, activate precise hitting, and so on). After triggering one time LT it was just ONE action after LT/character!

Try it out. With holding down LT the game definately gets more gameplay, because of the fact you can add more actions to a special character. @ Bioware: Why there are such differences between those options regarding the Pause menue? For all of you with the same problems getting combat too fast, try to change the activation of the radial menu. It really helped at me. It doesnt change the speed, but you can activate a bit more and not just do one action for a special character.

Nevertheless there is still the same problem I mentioned. On easy its just a walkthrough without any competition. On Normal the combat gets really stressy and hectic, Hard I havent tried and nightmare I can imagine how that one will work :( So if playing on easy I cant get the effects other game modes provide (damage to other group members). But when choosing Normal, the fights are just too fast to get a possibility to calm things down, to figure out a strategy. Well, try to change the radial thingy..Its now possible to "stack" orders. But i have to try this news to me out the next combats. Looks promising anyway. Bioware should have a look on "LT pressed once, only one action alolowed" and "Holding down LT, so more actions are allowed"...

added: @JHorwath:  after  you did the "Post"-option, I was still typing  :)  I should open 2 browser windows in future ;) But thats exactly what makes the difference in gaming. Having a look the next game minutes on it. Bioware should change that. LT to activate pause, LT again to deactivate it again. Holding down LT and navigate with the same hand is kind of difficult.

Modifié par Lohe, 10 décembre 2009 - 02:35 .

#10
Phil5000
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 07:41

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Recycled Human wrote...

Phil5000 : I know how you feel, it's almost a blow to my self-esteem dropping below nightmare and I'll do anything to prevent that. Unfortunately, the game seems robe geared towards this micromanagement style. I'm supposing it's to give you the full control you might miss from turn based action (something I wish they implemented but understand that they didn't want to break immersion more than it already is.) I feel this is a delicate balance and,while I don't mind micromanaging, I do understand how it would be upsetting not to play at what you feel your skill level is. I still recommend bumping down to casual for an overall better fel, remember this is just a game, it should be fun for you. I only feel like I'm having fun hen I complete the highest level of challenge. Though others may find it more fun simply to own everything with minimal input. Still others might find it most fun just to rp your character.

I recommend figuring out what you want to get out of the game and then building the game around those ideas.

Good luck.


No I like a challenge, and Casual is too easy. And I call it whimp mode because of things like area effect spells not effecting allies and such. There needs to be some way of making the combat less exacting without resorting to Casual, which is almost god mode and no fun.

#11
Phil5000
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 07:48

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Another thing that could help combat is a "Follow Me" order for when you get in over your head and want your party to break off and fall into formation with you. Then you can fall back and reposition. There's no way to do that at the moment.



Maybe we should make a post of recommendations for the 360. I've got a couple, how about you?

#12
Phil5000
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 08:06

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Lohe wrote...

But I found out something else a few moments ago: Since now I have played with "Pause when LT was triggered one time". Now, I changed that option and I have to hold down LT, but can add stacks of orders to my group members (such like: drink Potion, activate precise hitting, and so on). After triggering one time LT it was just ONE action after LT/character!

Try it out. With holding down LT the game definately gets more gameplay, because of the fact you can add more actions to a special character. @ Bioware: Why there are such differences between those options regarding the Pause menue? For all of you with the same problems getting combat too fast, try to change the activation of the radial menu. It really helped at me. It doesnt change the speed, but you can activate a bit more and not just do one action for a special character.


I'm not sure what you mean. I know you can set the LT to either hold down, or toggle but I don't think that alters functionality at all. This leads to something else I forgot to mention...

When you hit LT and issue an order, like take a health poultice, the game then unpauses automatically. So you then have to pause again to issue another order. So if you want to give an order to each party memeber, you have to pause, issue order then pause again, switch to next character and issue order, then pause again. You have to keep pausing because the game unpauses when you issue each order. In other words you can't stack orders.

It would help if there was an option to not unpause until you release the LT or (hit LT again if you've got it set to toggle). That you could could issue all the commands you wanted while paused, then unpause and all the party carries out their orders simultaneously.

#13
Guest_Lohe_*
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 09:05

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Hi phil.

I guess you are playing with "Press LT and Pause will begin. you can now release LT". So as you mentioned, after you did your command with "A", the game unpauses again unfortunately. But there is another option for this mechanic.

Just alter the depending option in your option menu. There are two options possible for the LT-button. The one we were speaking about and another. At this one you have to hold down LT. While holding down LT you can add commands with the "A" button, for example setting a new status to Leliana and drink a potion. These are 2 action commands, but there is no unpause between them, when using the "Hold LT down"-option. Just have a look on yourself. This neutralizes the stress effect in combat situations, because you can still simply navigate between your characters, perform necessary actions, and after all, just release LT and you will get back to the game ONE tim and not after every command you have done to your character.

At me, this really helps a lot. Sure, its a bit complicated to navigate while holding down LT, pressing RB/LB and doing the left thumb stick, but it works better for me, than with the other LT-option. It would be good, if pausing the game could be enabled and disabled by pressing LT to begin and to stop the pause and you are allowed to do your wanted commands to your characters between both conditions.

Modifié par Lohe, 10 décembre 2009 - 09:18 .

#14
Prjct 2501
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 10:20

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Lohe,

I have the PS3 version (which I doubt is any different from the XBOX360 one), and I have the LT radial menu setting set to toggle (ie. I don't have to hold the button down). I still haven't found a way to issue and stack orders without having the game suddenly unpause everytime I click OK.

#15
Guest_Lohe_*
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 10:49

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Hi. On xbox its just working while holding down LT. With toggle-function enabled I get back to the game after each action I choosed too (it simply unpauses after clicking "A")

But its working better by holding down LT. I was able the first time(!) to drink a potion on my char, drinking a heat resistance on Allistair, toggling Lelianas weapon from daggers to bow WITHOUT beeing sent back to the game after each command. All actions were performed simultanous after I released LT again. Thats a big improvement for my gameplay!

Modifié par Lohe, 10 décembre 2009 - 10:51 .

#16
SirJarenTor
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 01:50

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If I had known that I could stack orders while holding, I wouldn't have changed the Left Trigger menu to only pop up as a toggle.



Control issues I've come across:

The fact that you can't zoom out and you have a huge radial menu in your way every time you pause is irritating, preventing you from seeing what all is going on without cycling through characters.

You can't issue group movement commands (go to location), or scatter your allies to avoid AoE (get out of here). If I could do just one, I'd have a lot less post-cut-scene deaths owing to not starting every fight with one-shotting enemy mages with Mana Clash before they can cast Chain Lightning and Fireball on me.

Hold Position is especially frustrating with the "can't issue group movement commands".

Selecting all your party members to pick a new auto-attack target suspends ALL of their AI as long as they're selected. Heals and other spells won't be cast, special abilities that would interrupt casters or cause poultices to be consumed won't occur.

#17
Surberus
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 01:56

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The ability to give multiple commands is eluding me. Let's say I hit LT (which is set to toggle pause, and not have to be held down) so I'm in the menu, I scroll over to a spell and set my guy to cast sleep. Well as soon as I hit 'A' to select sleep, I exit the menu, and have to hit LT again for my next character.



Am I miss something simple?



According to Lohe above me, it's easier to issue multiple commands if I hold it down, which is just obnoxious.

#18
Blundarin
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 02:00

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On Topic:

i didnt even realise it was possible to switch between party members and set up actions in a que on the 360 as the first things i did was change the radial menu trigger option to Toggle

Off Topic:

SirJarenTor wrote...

The fact that you can't zoom out and you have a huge radial menu in your way every time you pause is irritating, preventing you from seeing what all is going on without cycling through characters.


On multiple ocasions i did have a bug where the radial menu would dissapear and the game just appeared to be paused. Think i caused it by pulling up the radial menu then going quickly in and out of the Start menu during a fight and it paused the game while turning off the radial menu. Problem i had then was if i would access the radial menu again the game would unpause with a big Radial menu in my screen lol :P

#19
Guest_Lohe_*
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 02:11

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Surberus wrote...

The ability to give multiple commands is eluding me. Let's say I hit LT (which is set to toggle pause, and not have to be held down) so I'm in the menu, I scroll over to a spell and set my guy to cast sleep. Well as soon as I hit 'A' to select sleep, I exit the menu, and have to hit LT again for my next character.

Am I miss something simple?

According to Lohe above me, it's easier to issue multiple commands if I hold it down, which is just obnoxious.


Yes it is obnoxious, indeed, because you are doing 2 actions with just your left hand (holding down LT and navigating with left thumb stick). Pressing RB (to move over to the next character is quiete easy, but if you want back with LB its a pain, because LT has to be hold down ;)) Well, I dont know why youre kicked back into the game when using the "toggle-funtion". Im unsure if we get a statement about this from the developer. Maybe they will notice and change that. Cant be that hard to set two flags.

#20
ltdinh
Posté 10 décembre 2009 - 04:57

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If you want to issue multiple commands on the console versions you have to set the radial control to "hold down." Give an order, don't release the left trigger, and toggle to another party member. Repeat.
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